Recruiting & coaching

[cbo 8,064]

6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I think time will always exacerbate something going wrong.  Gus and the team were going in the wrong direction since TAMU '14.  

His roster management, across the entirety, is why we are here.  CBH hasn't fixed it or done much to address it, so he's perpetuating it, but the reason we are sol low isn't on CBH.

Arguably QB is by far the most important position. Look at the QBs Gus recruited. Moseley, Frasier, White, Woody, Willis, Garrett, Queen, JF3, etc.

The other aspect that has put us so far down is the atrocious retention rate Gus had with his teams. He bring in top 15 teams, but routinely a 1/3 would never play before leaving.  

Completely agree about Gus and TAMU '14.

Don't completely agree with the rest, but you make good points to think about. Especially about QB, where Gus left the cupboard bare. 

Maybe I'm placing too much importance on the portal. But I would have been encouraged if Harsin could have pulled just one good OL or QB. 

Probably doesn't matter now, other than learning lessons to apply later. 

Thanks for the thoughts and have a good night!

[bigbird 60,603]

1 hour ago, cbo said:

Maybe I'm placing too much importance on the portal. But I would have been encouraged if Harsin could have pulled just one good OL or QB.

No, I think you're placing the right amount.  We're gonna have to kill it there the next couple years. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

6 hours ago, cbo said:

Completely agree about Gus and TAMU '14.

Don't completely agree with the rest, but you make good points to think about. Especially about QB, where Gus left the cupboard bare. 

Maybe I'm placing too much importance on the portal. But I would have been encouraged if Harsin could have pulled just one good OL or QB. 

Probably doesn't matter now, other than learning lessons to apply later. 

Thanks for the thoughts and have a good night!

I don't know if Calzada could have been better than Finley/Ashford if his shoulder would have healed properly, but I don't think that he would have been worse.  OL portal recruiting was a joke though, no reason we couldn't have landed at least 2 guys who could play if NIL was a real thing at AU and the investigation hadn't been announced over the loud speakers.

Edited October 12, 2022 by dyehardfanAU

[Mikey 16,779]

7 hours ago, bigbird said:

Arguably QB is by far the most important position. Look at the QBs Gus recruited. Moseley, Frasier, White, Woody, Willis, Garrett, Queen, JF3, etc.

Why omit Cam Newton, Jarred Stidham and Bo Nix? So that you can narrowly define a concept? See your statement, below.

7 hours ago, bigbird said:

Squinting at competition or squinting at depth, it doesn't matter. When you have to significantly and repeatedly contort an argument to narrowly define a common understood concept, then there really isn't much debate.

 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

2 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Why omit Cam Newton, Jarred Stidham and Bo Nix? So that you can narrowly define a concept? See your statement, below.

 

What does Cam Newton have to do with Gus' tenure as a HC.  Hell, Luper was the guy who found Cam and recommended him.

[Mikey 16,779]

1 minute ago, dyehardfanAU said:

What does Cam Newton have to do with Gus' tenure as a HC.  Hell, Luper was the guy who found Cam and recommended him.

Gus is the one who had to sell Chizic on Cam. Cam is a QB Gus recruited to Auburn. If Luper was involved this is the first I've heard of it. Cam's recruitment has nothing to do with Malzahn's time as AU's head coach. But a list was posted that omitted Gus's top three QB recruits. Omission seems to be a theme in this thread. First let's omit Gus's two best seasons from the discussion, now let's omit his top QB recruits. What gets omitted next? The fact that he never had a losing season?

The fact that the roster would have been in much better shape had Harsin been able to keep those 20 guys from jumping through the portal is another example of things that are conveniently overlooked.

[woodford 3,682]

7 hours ago, bigbird said:

I think time will always exacerbate something going wrong.  Gus and the team were going in the wrong direction since TAMU '14.  

His roster management, across the entirety, is why we are here.  CBH hasn't fixed it or done much to address it, so he's perpetuating it, but the reason we are sol low isn't on CBH.

Arguably QB is by far the most important position. Look at the QBs Gus recruited. Moseley, Frasier, White, Woody, Willis, Garrett, Queen, JF3, etc.

The OL and Wr moves were just as perplexing.  Offensively, we suck and our talent is worse. As of now, it seems that RB is the only positive on O

The other aspect that has put us so far down is the atrocious retention rate Gus had with his teams. He bring in top 15 teams, but routinely a 1/3 would never play before leaving.  

That's the first time I ever raised my eyebrows regarding Gus. That's just one game but the writing was on the wall. It's mind numbing how he never made a legitimate attempt to adapt or super charge that offense. Wasted a better half of a decade.

[bigbird 60,603]

11 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Why omit Cam Newton, Jarred Stidham and Bo Nix? So that you can narrowly define a concept? See your statement, below.

 

Just some quick thoughts.

Cam wasn't a Gus QB 

Jarred was given to Gus by Art and messed that up 

Bo ideal for his O. He failed Bo via his OL failures 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Gus is the one who had to sell Chizic on Cam. Cam is a QB Gus recruited to Auburn. If Luper was involved this is the first I've heard of it. Cam's recruitment has nothing to do with Malzahn's time as AU's head coach. But a list was posted that omitted Gus's top three QB recruits. Omission seems to be a theme in this thread. First let's omit Gus's two best seasons from the discussion, now let's omit his top QB recruits. What gets omitted next? The fact that he never had a losing season?

The fact that the roster would have been in much better shape had Harsin been able to keep those 20 guys from jumping through the portal is another example of things that are conveniently overlooked.

Cam was not Gus' QB, he was Chizik's QB.  I am sorry that you were unaware of Luper finding Cam and selling him to Chizik.

[bigbird 60,603]

3 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Cam was not Gus' QB, he was Chizik's QB.  I am sorry that you were unaware of Luper finding Cam and selling him to Chizik.

Bo played under Gus for two out of four seasons. They were his two worst 

[AU9377 5,292]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:57 AM, aubaseball said:

So, should we give Rhett, Chip and whoever was OC in 2019 credit too?   And by the way, I said he was competitive with Alabama at home.   I didn’t mention 2010 because he wasn’t HC.   2013, took three missed field goals and a once in a lifetime play at the end to win.  2017, Auburn actually was the better team on the field and won the game straight up.   I don’t look at wins and loses and determine what kind of team auburn has.   For example,  this years Missouri game.   Scoreboard says win but AU shouldn’t have won.   That’s called being objective in looking at wins and loses.  

It is not an accurate assessment to pretend that Auburn won the 2013 Iron Bowl in some fluke fashion.  The game was tied and headed to overtime, with the momentum being clearly on the side of the home team.  Grace and fortune may have had a hand in the Georgia game the week before, but not in that game.

[AU9377 5,292]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:27 AM, 1716AU said:

I appreciate you speaking of this.  I actually had no issues with Gus' offense, except for reasons I will keep to myself.

It was the constant poor roster management and recruiting that was most upsetting to me. Especially when it came to the OL.  Harsin has not helped himself with his unwillingness to do what it takes to get the job done, but we are in the trash with the roster because of Gus.

Any day now we will have spent $70 million to only be worse than the team Auburn put on the field in 2020.  That is a fact.  It is also a fact that in the spring of 2020, Auburn had the consensus #7 recruiting class in the country.  In that class, there were 3 high school OL and 2 transfer OL.  Were they the best in the country?  Ofcourse not, but 3 of them were starters this year.

The current staff has been at Auburn for 2 recruiting classes.  Guess what?  No OL have been recruited thru the portal and 1 from the high school ranks in each class.  Does that look like a coach that is addressing a problem?  NO

[AU9377 5,292]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:08 AM, AU-24 said:

We finished the 2019 season ranked #12 and beat #5 bama in the final regular season game.

Preach on! Some of your negative responses are from people that refuse to believe what their eyes see and their ears hear.

Too many people want to live in absolutes.  Someone is either an idiot or brilliant, when neither is ever the case 100% of the time.

I just hope Karma gives us a pass for the amount of money we continually waste.  If not, God help us.

Edited October 12, 2022 by AU9377

[alabastertiger 624]

10 hours ago, bigbird said:

I think time will always exacerbate something going wrong.  Gus and the team were going in the wrong direction since TAMU '14.  

His roster management, across the entirety, is why we are here.  CBH hasn't fixed it or done much to address it, so he's perpetuating it, but the reason we are sol low isn't on CBH.

Arguably QB is by far the most important position. Look at the QBs Gus recruited. Moseley, Frasier, White, Woody, Willis, Garrett, Queen, JF3, etc.

The OL and Wr moves were just as perplexing.  Offensively, we suck and our talent is worse. As of now, it seems that RB is the only positive on O

The other aspect that has put us so far down is the atrocious retention rate Gus had with his teams. He bring in top 15 teams, but routinely a 1/3 would never play before leaving.  

Great.   Just great!!!   Finally the therapist said I was making progress and you have to bring up the 2014 game.   Thanks a bunch!

[alabastertiger 624]

56 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

It is not an accurate assessment to pretend that Auburn won the 2013 Iron Bowl in some fluke fashion.  The game was tied and headed to overtime, with the momentum being clearly on the side of the home team.  Grace and fortune may have had a hand in the Georgia game the week before, but not in that game.

Every time the show a replay of that play I just smile and know that some where there is an alabama fan kicking his dog.

[Hopsing 587]

16 minutes ago, alabastertiger said:

Every time the show a replay of that play I just smile and know that some where there is an alabama fan kicking his dog  cat! 
FIFY

 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

It is not an accurate assessment to pretend that Auburn won the 2013 Iron Bowl in some fluke fashion.  The game was tied and headed to overtime, with the momentum being clearly on the side of the home team.  Grace and fortune may have had a hand in the Georgia game the week before, but not in that game.

Was he not referring to the UGA game?  We lose that game without one of the luckiest plays i have ever witnessed.

[I_M4_AU 8,142]

10 hours ago, bigbird said:

I think time will always exacerbate something going wrong.  Gus and the team were going in the wrong direction since TAMU '14. 

The only reason the team was going in the right direction in 2013 and 2014 until TAMU was one highly talented and determined QB that fell in Gus’ lap.  Nick was special.  Otherwise he might have been gone in 2016

10 hours ago, bigbird said:

Arguably QB is by far the most important position. Look at the QBs Gus recruited. Moseley, Frasier, White, Woody, Willis, Garrett, Queen, JF3, etc.

This list is the typical QB evaluation Gus made during his tenure.  He was always looking for the next Cam or Marshall, but didn’t quite know what made those players great.  He is basically doing the same at UCF.

Edited October 12, 2022 by I_M4_AU

[Mikey 16,779]

12 hours ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Cam was not Gus' QB, he was Chizik's QB.  I am sorry that you were unaware of Luper finding Cam and selling him to Chizik.

Back then, it was Gus who sold Chizik on Cam. I'm sorry you heard it wrong. The discussion was QB's recruited by Gus. The list provided left three of Gus' best QB recruits out. Just like the won/loss record posted earlier left Gus' two best seasons out.

Leaving a coaches' best accomplishments out is becoming a time-honored tradition at Auburn. I first laughed at this when Terry Bowden won 20 straight games. Immediately the bammers started whining "He did it with Dye's players" and a lot of our people swallowed that bait. Bowden won 20 straight games with players so poor that the best Dye could do with them was win five each of the two prior years. Dye's players indeed!

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

8 hours ago, Mikey said:

Back then, it was Gus who sold Chizik on Cam. I'm sorry you heard it wrong. The discussion was QB's recruited by Gus. The list provided left three of Gus' best QB recruits out. Just like the won/loss record posted earlier left Gus' two best seasons out.

Leaving a coaches' best accomplishments out is becoming a time-honored tradition at Auburn. I first laughed at this when Terry Bowden won 20 straight games. Immediately the bammers started whining "He did it with Dye's players" and a lot of our people swallowed that bait. Bowden won 20 straight games with players so poor that the best Dye could do with them was win five each of the two prior years. Dye's players indeed!

So you think Bowden did not win with Dye's players?  Your takes get better and better.

[Mikey 16,779]

21 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

So you think Bowden did not win with Dye's players?  Your takes get better and better.

By default, some were Dye's players. Those were players Dye won five games a year with the prior two years. Some were Bowden recruits. That's the nature of college football, you know. There's a constant turnover. When Bowden finished 10-3 and lost the SEC game by one point in 1997, Dye's players were gone.

Crediting Dye with Bowden's win streak is as lame as blaming Malzahn for Harsin's bungling.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

20 minutes ago, Mikey said:

By default, some were Dye's players. Those were players Dye won five games a year with the prior two years. Some were Bowden recruits. That's the nature of college football, you know. There's a constant turnover. When Bowden finished 10-3 and lost the SEC game by one point in 1997, Dye's players were gone.

Crediting Dye with Bowden's win streak is as lame as blaming Malzahn for Harsin's bungling.

Which true freshman that Bowden recruited contributed to the 1993 season?

[Mikey 16,779]

9 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Which true freshman that Bowden recruited contributed to the 1993 season?

Willie Anderson comes immediately to mind.

Anderson attended Auburn University, where he played for the Auburn Tigers football team from 1993 to 1995. He majored in marketing education.

Anderson started as a freshman at guard during the Tigers undefeated season in 1993. He switched to offensive tackle the next year.

He was honored as a 2nd-Team All-American after his Junior year at Auburn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Anderson_(American_football)#College_career

Edited October 13, 2022 by Mikey

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

7 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Willie Anderson comes immediately to mind.

Anderson attended Auburn University, where he played for the Auburn Tigers football team from 1993 to 1995. He majored in marketing education.

Anderson started as a freshman at guard during the Tigers undefeated season in 1993. He switched to offensive tackle the next year.

He was honored as a 2nd-Team All-American after his Junior year at Auburn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Anderson_(American_football)#College_career

Ok, thanks, you found one.  So with 21 of the starters being Dye's players we can safely say that Bowden won with Dye's players.

Edited October 13, 2022 by dyehardfanAU

[Mikey 16,779]

10 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Ok, thanks, you found one.  So with 21 of the starters being Dye's players we can safely say that Bowden won with Dye's players.

You asked, I gave you an answer. If I waste time finding one more for you, you'll want two more. If I find two more, you'll want four. Just take your loss and stop. You aren't going to run me around all day checking rosters.