Both Sides are not the same

[TexasTiger 12,949]

The craziest Republicans have far more power than the most extreme democrats. Republicans fear them and rarely stand up to them. In fact, they are hostage to them.

“But the power of ideological outliers is very different between the parties. Ukraine is an excellent example. Mainstream liberal Democrats, as we’ve seen this week, are not afraid of disagreements with the House Progressive Caucus. Indeed, many of them appear to delight in contrasting themselves with those who are more liberal.

Mainstream Republicans, however, are terrified of any significant criticism from those who call themselves extreme conservatives — which allows those radicals to bully the rest of the party. We saw the results recently, with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy admitting that Ukraine aid would probably be cut off if he becomes Speaker, even though the House as a whole would certainly have the votes for additional aid packages and even within the Republican conference there will likely still be a majority for continuing to support that beleaguered nation.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-26/ukraine-shows-divide-in-how-democrats-and-republicans-disagree?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=221026&utm_campaign=author_18529680

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

48 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

“But the power of ideological outliers is very different between the parties. Ukraine is an excellent example. Mainstream liberal Democrats, as we’ve seen this week, are not afraid of disagreements with the House Progressive Caucus. Indeed, many of them appear to delight in contrasting themselves with those who are more liberal.

Is this what the article you linked is talking about?

A day after House progressives sent a letter to President Biden urging him to change his approach to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the group abruptly changed course amid intense pushback from Democratic lawmakers.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/1131347005/progressive-democrats-ukraine-letter-withdraw-biden

Seems to me these *progessive* Democrats were urged (forced) to withdraw the letter that disagreed with Biden’s approach.  Is that not being held hostage to the current administration?

In other words this is a typical left leaning media BS opinion.

[TexasTiger 12,949]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Is this what the article you linked is talking about?

A day after House progressives sent a letter to President Biden urging him to change his approach to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the group abruptly changed course amid intense pushback from Democratic lawmakers.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/1131347005/progressive-democrats-ukraine-letter-withdraw-biden

Seems to me these *progessive* Democrats were urged (forced) to withdraw the letter that disagreed with Biden’s approach.  Is that not being held hostage to the current administration?

In other words this is a typical left leaning media BS opinion.

There’s a currently largely bi-partisan approach to Ukraine this administration agrees with. It’s currently a mainstream view. You miss the clear and obvious point due to your hatred of Biden.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

There’s a currently largely bi-partisan approach to Ukraine this administration agrees with. It’s currently a mainstream view. You miss the clear and obvious point due to your hatred of Biden.

And that won’t change until Jan. 20th or so.  By then winter will have a grasp on Europe and people’s opinions of this war will have changed. It will have very little to do with America’s view and a lot to do with the peoples in Europe view.

[TexasTiger 12,949]

32 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

And that won’t change until Jan. 20th or so.  By then winter will have a grasp on Europe and people’s opinions of this war will have changed. It will have very little to do with America’s view and a lot to do with the peoples in Europe view.

That’s it’s own point, different from this thread.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

25 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

That’s it’s own point, different from this thread.

Ok, from Bloomberg on Oct 20th:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy made news this week when he declared that, should he become speaker next year, the House would likely cut off funding for Ukraine and would attempt to use the debt limit to force cuts to popular social programs. 

His comments tell us quite a bit about what he would be like as speaker if Republicans take back the House.

For one, it sounds like he is ready to put the most radical Republicans in charge, even when that means disregarding what the majority of the Republican conference wants. House Republicans supported aid to Ukraine this spring by a better than a 3-to-1 margin, yet McCarthy appears comfortable aligning with the small segment of the party opposing the Ukraine package. It suggests that McCarthy is determined to keep both former President Donald Trump and House radicals on his side, fearing a revolt that could dump him as the Republican leader.

His comments tell us quite a bit about what he would be like as speaker if Republicans take back the House.For one, it sounds like he is ready to put the most radical Republicans in charge, even when that means disregarding what the majority of the Republican conference wants. House Republicans supported aid to Ukraine this spring by a better than a 3-to-1 margin, yet McCarthy appears comfortable aligning with the small segment of the party opposing the Ukraine package. It suggests that McCarthy is determined to keep both former President Donald Trump and House radicals on his side, fearing a revolt that could dump him as the Republican leader. 

McCarthy appears to be going down the same path as former Speaker Paul Ryan, who was unwilling to play the crucial role of serving as a pin cushion for critics. This is something that former Speaker John Boehner was very good at — as are current Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-20/mccarthy-s-trump-allegiance-could-cause-chaos-in-congress-next-year

This article embedded in your article was only six days earlier.  It shows, by its closing statement, that both parties are closer than your article seems to think.  In the above article there are a lot of *appears*, *seems* and *sounds like* statements and 6 days later it is presented as more of a certainty.  I don’t see your point.

 

[homersapien 11,388]

20 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Ok, from Bloomberg on Oct 20th:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy made news this week when he declared that, should he become speaker next year, the House would likely cut off funding for Ukraine and would attempt to use the debt limit to force cuts to popular social programs. 

His comments tell us quite a bit about what he would be like as speaker if Republicans take back the House.

For one, it sounds like he is ready to put the most radical Republicans in charge, even when that means disregarding what the majority of the Republican conference wants. House Republicans supported aid to Ukraine this spring by a better than a 3-to-1 margin, yet McCarthy appears comfortable aligning with the small segment of the party opposing the Ukraine package. It suggests that McCarthy is determined to keep both former President Donald Trump and House radicals on his side, fearing a revolt that could dump him as the Republican leader.

His comments tell us quite a bit about what he would be like as speaker if Republicans take back the House.For one, it sounds like he is ready to put the most radical Republicans in charge, even when that means disregarding what the majority of the Republican conference wants. House Republicans supported aid to Ukraine this spring by a better than a 3-to-1 margin, yet McCarthy appears comfortable aligning with the small segment of the party opposing the Ukraine package. It suggests that McCarthy is determined to keep both former President Donald Trump and House radicals on his side, fearing a revolt that could dump him as the Republican leader. 

McCarthy appears to be going down the same path as former Speaker Paul Ryan, who was unwilling to play the crucial role of serving as a pin cushion for critics. This is something that former Speaker John Boehner was very good at — as are current Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-20/mccarthy-s-trump-allegiance-could-cause-chaos-in-congress-next-year

This article embedded in your article was only six days earlier.  It shows, by its closing statement, that both parties are closer than your article seems to think.  In the above article there are a lot of *appears*, *seems* and *sounds like* statements and 6 days later it is presented as more of a certainty.  I don’t see your point.

 

Seems to me you simply confirmed Tex's point. 

McCarthy (unsurprisingly, considering his recent history) is willing to kowtow to MAGA radicals ("Trump won") thus, these radicals are far more powerful than the progressive wing of the Democratic party can exert on the Democratic party.  (But then, we already knew that.)

And obviously, this is talking about statements that have been made (by MaCarthy) about his future intentions, so the qualifying adverbs you point out seem perfectly natural in context. 

To me, the most interesting thing to speculate on is whether or not the Republicans who support the effort to aid Ukraine against Russia are willing to hold their conviction that it's the right thing for us to do.

Perhaps that could be the first indicator we've seen there is a significant segment of the Republican party that has not fully succumbed to Trumpist populism?

Edited October 26, 2022 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Seems to me you simply confirmed Tex's point. 

McCarthy (unsurprisingly, considering his recent history) is willing to kowtow to MAGA radicals ("Trump won") thus, these radicals are far more powerful than the progressive wing of the Democratic party exerts on the Democratic party.  (But then, we already knew that.)

And obviously, this is talking about statements that have been made (by MaCarthy) about his future intentions, so the qualifying adverbs you point out seem perfectly natural in context. 

Missed the point about Nancy and Chuck didn’t you?

[homersapien 11,388]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Missed the point about Nancy and Chuck didn’t you?

Maybe so. What are you talking about?

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Maybe so. What are you talking about?

McCarthy appears to be going down the same path as former Speaker Paul Ryan, who was unwilling to play the crucial role of serving as a pin cushion for critics. This is something that former Speaker John Boehner was very good at — as are current Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

[homersapien 11,388]

43 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

McCarthy appears to be going down the same path as former Speaker Paul Ryan, who was unwilling to play the crucial role of serving as a pin cushion for critics. This is something that former Speaker John Boehner was very good at — as are current Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Which means......? 

How does that relate to Tex's topic?  Again, if anything it reinforces it. 

Boehner, Pelosi and McConnel were willing to suffer the negative feedback from their radicals (as "pin cushions" ).  They stood up to them.

McCarthy isn't willing to stand up to the radicals, even if they are in the minority. He's afraid for his job. 

Ergo, the MAGA radicals have much more power than the Democratic progressive wing does in the DP.

Are you trying to take me down one of your rabbit holes? 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Which means......? 

How does that relate to Tex's topic?  Again, if anything it reinforces it. 

Boehner, Pelosi and McConnel were willing to suffer the negative feedback from their radicals ("pin cushions" ).  They stood up to them.

McCarthy isn't willing to stand up to the radicals, even if they are in the minority. He's afraid for his job.  Ergo, the MAGA radicals have much more power than the Democratic progressive wing do.

Are you trying to take me down one of your rabbit holes? 

 

 

Your reading comprehension is off today. The quoted section clearly states that McCarthy is: unwilling to play the crucial role of serving as a pin cushion for critics.  This is something that former Speaker John Boehner was very good at — as are current Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

 

[homersapien 11,388]

14 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your reading comprehension is off today. The quoted section clearly states that McCarthy is: unwilling to play the crucial role of serving as a pin cushion for critics.  This is something that former Speaker John Boehner was very good at — as are current Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

 

Exactly.  Just as TT said in his OP:

"The craziest Republicans have far more power than the most extreme democrats. Republicans fear them and rarely stand up to them. In fact, they are hostage to them."

It seems that it is you who apparently has the reading comprehension issue.  

[TexasTiger 12,949]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Ok, from Bloomberg on Oct 20th:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy made news this week when he declared that, should he become speaker next year, the House would likely cut off funding for Ukraine and would attempt to use the debt limit to force cuts to popular social programs. 

His comments tell us quite a bit about what he would be like as speaker if Republicans take back the House.

For one, it sounds like he is ready to put the most radical Republicans in charge, even when that means disregarding what the majority of the Republican conference wants. House Republicans supported aid to Ukraine this spring by a better than a 3-to-1 margin, yet McCarthy appears comfortable aligning with the small segment of the party opposing the Ukraine package. It suggests that McCarthy is determined to keep both former President Donald Trump and House radicals on his side, fearing a revolt that could dump him as the Republican leader.

His comments tell us quite a bit about what he would be like as speaker if Republicans take back the House.For one, it sounds like he is ready to put the most radical Republicans in charge, even when that means disregarding what the majority of the Republican conference wants. House Republicans supported aid to Ukraine this spring by a better than a 3-to-1 margin, yet McCarthy appears comfortable aligning with the small segment of the party opposing the Ukraine package. It suggests that McCarthy is determined to keep both former President Donald Trump and House radicals on his side, fearing a revolt that could dump him as the Republican leader. 

McCarthy appears to be going down the same path as former Speaker Paul Ryan, who was unwilling to play the crucial role of serving as a pin cushion for critics. This is something that former Speaker John Boehner was very good at — as are current Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-20/mccarthy-s-trump-allegiance-could-cause-chaos-in-congress-next-year

This article embedded in your article was only six days earlier.  It shows, by its closing statement, that both parties are closer than your article seems to think.  In the above article there are a lot of *appears*, *seems* and *sounds like* statements and 6 days later it is presented as more of a certainty.  I don’t see your point.

 

You clearly don’t see my point since you just helped me make it. (See above)

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

6 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You clearly don’t see my point since you just helped me make it. (See above)

So the fact that McCarthy is just like Nancy proves your point that the Republicans are different?

Your point won’t be proven until January if then.

[homersapien 11,388]

10 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You clearly don’t see my point since you just helped me make it. (See above)

No, no TT.  You obviously don't understand your point.

 

[homersapien 11,388]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

So the fact that McCarthy is just like Nancy proves your point that the Republicans are different?

Your point won’t be proven until January if then.

There's that "reading comprehension" thing again. 

[TexasTiger 12,949]

34 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

So the fact that McCarthy is just like Nancy proves your point that the Republicans are different?

Your point won’t be proven until January if then.

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[autigeremt 6,643]

They all suck. 🤪

 

Seriously....they all deserve what they get! I don't trust either of them. I'm just waiting on the shoe to drop.......

 

 

[AU9377 4,967]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:33 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Is this what the article you linked is talking about?

A day after House progressives sent a letter to President Biden urging him to change his approach to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the group abruptly changed course amid intense pushback from Democratic lawmakers.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/1131347005/progressive-democrats-ukraine-letter-withdraw-biden

Seems to me these *progessive* Democrats were urged (forced) to withdraw the letter that disagreed with Biden’s approach.  Is that not being held hostage to the current administration?

In other words this is a typical left leaning media BS opinion.

That is being told that you are wrong and that your actions stand to do harm to the re-election of members of the party in close districts.

[AU9377 4,967]

I am sick and tired on once again hearing that Republican candidates love America and Democrats hate America.  It is so juvenile, yet is embarrassingly effective in getting the attention of some on the far right.  It should be insulting to every American, especially Republicans.  And please, don't try to pretend that that is the same as calling out election deniers.  It isn't.  People that claim there was widespread election fraud in the 2020 election are simply liars at this point. 

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

3 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

That is being told that you are wrong and that your actions stand to do harm to the re-election of members of the party in close districts.

Ok, its all about keeping the power.

[AU9377 4,967]

On 11/5/2022 at 5:30 PM, I_M4_AU said:

Ok, its all about keeping the power.

Or representing the people that elected you and not straying too far from that.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Or representing the people that elected you and not straying too far from that.

Nope it’s power. Reference progress of blacks last 50 years under democrat yoke.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

On 10/26/2022 at 10:33 AM, TexasTiger said:

There’s a currently largely bi-partisan approach to Ukraine this administration agrees with. It’s currently a mainstream view. You miss the clear and obvious point due to your hatred of Biden.

Unfortunately the Ukraine-Russian war has become political.  It shouldn't be because when the USA, UK and Russia pressured Ukraine to relinquish their nuclear arms, each promised to protect Ukraine.  I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned.  That was a deal that should never have been made, meaning that Ukraine should not have been pressured to surrender its weapons, but it was and America/UK should stand with that obligation, for better or worse.  The problem is that we aren't giving a full-throated effort to do so.