Ukraine in NATO

[TexasTiger 13,005]

10 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

And,,, more lying. 

You should really stop that. It’s becoming a habit for you and you have enough bad habits already. 

[KansasTiger 3,254]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You should really stop that. It’s becoming a habit for you and you have enough bad habits already. 

I agree with a few and disagree with alot of people on here. The only person on this forum I have blocked is ICHY.

[homersapien 11,431]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

You should really stop that. It’s becoming a habit for you and you have enough bad habits already. 

He's just over-reacting to the form of your post, which was a statement (aka "begging the question"). 

You could have presented is as a straight forward question and it probably wouldn't have gotten that reaction.

But ICHY shouldn't have escalated.  (FWIW, I don't agree with ICHY, I agree with you.) 

Edited July 13, 2023 by homersapien

[GoAU 1,600]

On 7/11/2023 at 6:49 PM, KansasTiger said:

Maybe. Maybe not. It's not like we have a history of invading or taking unilateral military action in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and probably a few I forgot. No they weren't all 'invasions'. And SOME had coalition efforts for whatever thats worth, but many did not. We don't have much high ground for saying what we would or wouldn't do militarily if we were in that position. We've carried out military action for less urgent reasons.

And thats not to mention many of our covert military ops closer to home.

In zero of the examples you provided did the US or our coalition seek to annex or acquire territory.   I don’t see this as an even remotely accurate comparison.  

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

You should really stop that. It’s becoming a habit for you and you have enough bad habits already. 

A lie and then,,, the personal attack.  Well done.

[TexasTiger 13,005]

 

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

He's just over-reacting to the form of your post, which was a statement (aka "begging the question"). 

You could have presented is as a straight forward question and it probably wouldn't have gotten that reaction.

But ICHY shouldn't have escalated.  (FWIW, I don't agree with ICHY, I agree with you.) 

I made a straightforward request for clarification. But ichy gonna ichy.

[CoffeeTiger 5,167]

The way i understand it both the US and Germany are against Ukraine can't be fast tracked into NATO and that any conflict with Russia has to be over before the process can even begin. 

Apparently the Biden Administration expressed to Zelensky that his twitter raging wasn't helping anything, and that while NATO will continue to support Ukraine till Russia concedes its invasion, he should know there wont be any progress on NATO membership till after that time. 

[homersapien 11,431]

15 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

 

I made a straightforward request for clarification. But ichy gonna ichy.

Well, it would have come across more as a request had it been in the form of a question instead of a statement. 

(Not that I haven't done the same thing, I have.)

[TexasTiger 13,005]

17 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, it would have come across more as a request had it been in the form of a question instead of a statement. 

(Not that I haven't done the same thing, I have.)

Pretty confident it wouldn’t have made a difference.
 

There’s a nuanced way to make an argument that we perhaps acted in ways that made it easier for Putin to claim a perceived threat, but Putin’s actions are driven by a grand vision of restoring Russian empire, not because he perceived a real physical threat. A more prosperous functioning democracy in Ukraine creates an internal threat for Russia because it highlights Russian failures to Russian people. He clearly sees Ukrainians as vassals and is trying to decimate a culture. So should the West not support democracy in Ukraine? Not support a more functioning economy? Not support Ukrainian culture?

[homersapien 11,431]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Pretty confident it wouldn’t have made a difference.
 

There’s a nuanced way to make an argument that we perhaps acted in ways that made it easier for Putin to claim a perceived threat, but Putin’s actions are driven by a grand vision of restoring Russian empire, not because he perceived a real physical threat. A more prosperous functioning democracy in Ukraine creates an internal threat for Russia because it highlights Russian failures to Russian people. He clearly sees Ukrainians as vassals and is trying to decimate a culture. So should the West not support democracy in Ukraine? Not support a more functioning economy? Not support Ukrainian culture?

I agree completely.

Which is exactly why the possible - if unlikely - election of Trump would be so dangerous. 

There's little doubt in my mind that Trump would cripple - or abandon - NATO and desert Ukraine, which would have a major effect on history, and not it a good way.

Biden's resolve in opposing Putin and rallying NATO will be a hallmark of his presidency.

Edited July 14, 2023 by homersapien