Home insurance a growing problem

[TexasTiger 12,892]

Thoughts on how to address this?
 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/29/economy/home-insurance-prices-climate-change/index.html

@SaltyTiger what are you seeing in Florida?

[AU9377 4,934]

The conversation is different in Florida and other coastal areas, but rates are seeing record increases in areas that aren't high risk as well.  A portion of that is increased home values, but not all of it by any means.

The type of homes has also evolved.

Florida beach house in the 50s and 60s compared to today.

[SaltyTiger 7,810]

10 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Thoughts on how to address this?
 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/29/economy/home-insurance-prices-climate-change/index.html

@SaltyTiger what are you seeing in Florida?

I am out of the property business in Florida but still visit regularly. I hear grumblings but not the horror stories I have been hearing from friends and family in NOLA. 100% plus increases in insurance this past year have a lot of folks experiencing problems. Escrow accounts skyrocket for folks with a mortgage. I don’t have a practical answer for the problem in NOLA. Completely different population or culture than Florida. Seems it would have to come from more competition by insurance providers but who can blame them for pulling out. 
 

If I build again in Florida it will be simple concrete block and stucco with a low roof or flat profile. Not for everyone and certainly not for many businesses.

Good post from 93. Also amazing the destruction to environmentally sensitive areas we have accomplished in our lifetime. I can remember our bays being clean and clear growing up. 
 

 

[Cardin Drake 1,828]

This is a problem everywhere.  Has nothing to do with climate change.  We have very good data showing no increase in hurricanes over the last 50 years.  I'm inland in Austin, and my homeowner's policy went up 50% this year.  

[TexasTiger 12,892]

2 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

This is a problem everywhere.  Has nothing to do with climate change.  We have very good data showing no increase in hurricanes over the last 50 years.  I'm inland in Austin, and my homeowner's policy went up 50% this year.  

A lot of hail damage recently.

[TexasTiger 12,892]

10 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I am out of the property business in Florida but still visit regularly. I hear grumblings but not the horror stories I have been hearing from friends and family in NOLA. 100% plus increases in insurance this past year have a lot of folks experiencing problems. Escrow accounts skyrocket for folks with a mortgage. I don’t have a practical answer for the problem in NOLA. Completely different population or culture than Florida. Seems it would have to come from more competition by insurance providers but who can blame them for pulling out. 
 

If I build again in Florida it will be simple concrete block and stucco with a low roof or flat profile. Not for everyone and certainly not for many businesses.

Good post from 93. Also amazing the destruction to environmentally sensitive areas we have accomplished in our lifetime. I can remember our bays being clean and clear growing up. 
 

 

I know building codes have changed a bit in FL, but have they changed enough?

[homersapien 11,377]

22 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

This is a problem everywhere.  Has nothing to do with climate change.  We have very good data showing no increase in hurricanes over the last 50 years.  I'm inland in Austin, and my homeowner's policy went up 50% this year.  

The problem with homes on the coast is they are susceptible to hurricanes, period. 

If you want a home on the beach, fine, just don't expect insurance from either a commercial insurer or the government to cover it.   Consider the home as a disposable asset. 

And your claim hurricanes have not "increased" in the last 50 years is irrelevant.  They will become more frequent and more extreme.  That's just physics. And we already have data showing they are more destructive:

https://vitalsigns.edf.org/story/4-ways-hurricanes-are-becoming-more-dangerous-and-why

See also:

https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/

 

(This of course assumes you don't think climate change is a global hoax being perpetrated by the scientists who collect the data.)

 

Edited March 30 by homersapien

[Cardin Drake 1,828]

Most of what you said is correct. Hurricanes aren't per se more destructive however. The rising costs simply reflect inflation and increased population density in coastal areas.  I agree that people who choose to build on the coast need to bear the full expense of insurance, which has not always been the case in the past. 

[Leftfield 2,601]

35 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

The rising costs simply reflect inflation and increased population density in coastal areas. 

Lower right corner of the chart.

[AU9377 4,934]

There is a component of this that is driven by construction costs.  I also know contractors that are doing incredibly well.  They never imagined that they would be making the kind of money that they are today compared to 20 years ago.  When you add the cost of materials to the cost of skilled labor, the result is a price tag that is eye popping. 

I don't begrudge anyone for maximizing their earning ability.  That isn't my point in the comment.  That doesn't change the fact that it now costs as much to build a workshop in the backyard as it cost to build a modest home in the 90s.  Something has to give eventually.  I just hope the landing isn't too harsh.

[SaltyTiger 7,810]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

I know building codes have changed a bit in FL, but have they changed enough?

Florida wind codes are pretty stringent and the tie down systems work pretty well. Proven in my mind from being in the building business plus seeing the type of construction that survived Michael at Mexico Beach. Granted there wasn’t much left because most structures were dated and adhered to no type of code. Regardless of construction type common sense tells us an event like Michael leaves lots of damage. Lynn Haven outside of PC is newer more up to code but devastated mainly from fallen and airborne trees. 
 

Past the point of no return now but I would have preferred more limiting construction restrictions along the coast than what was in place the last 40 years. Going vertical per one of 93 pictures as we all know is attempting maximum beds on limited ground space. Dime a dozen along the coast now and in time will be someones nightmare and demo project. Started with cheap condos and rolled over to personal property. 

[SaltyTiger 7,810]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

you want a home on the beach, fine, just don't expect insurance from either a commercial insurer or the government to cover it.   Consider the home as a disposable asset. 

Can agree with “disposable” on a Florida beach. There is a reason mom and pop places in the 50s and prior were constructed from reinforced concrete block. BTW, many had terrazzo floors which no could afford today. Don’t that we have trades people today that could do the work. Last I saw was mid 90’s and it was a thin epoxy material vs the old stuff.
 

The article is more about the current problem in NOLA. Nothing like the Florida coast. Beautiful once you learn the way around. No words for their City Parks, Zoo, Lake Pontchartrain, etc…other than amazing. Any thoughts?
 

 Will say that most “fish camps” outside of NOLA are considered disposable. 
 

[TexasTiger 12,892]

10 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

BTW, many had terrazzo floors which no could afford today. Don’t that we have trades people today that could do the work.

You can find some, but not many. Polished concrete is a more affordable alternative.

[homersapien 11,377]

22 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Can agree with “disposable” on a Florida beach. There is a reason mom and pop places in the 50s and prior were constructed from reinforced concrete block. BTW, many had terrazzo floors which no could afford today. Don’t that we have trades people today that could do the work. Last I saw was mid 90’s and it was a thin epoxy material vs the old stuff.
 

The article is more about the current problem in NOLA. Nothing like the Florida coast. Beautiful once you learn the way around. No words for their City Parks, Zoo, Lake Pontchartrain, etc…other than amazing. Any thoughts?
 

 Will say that most “fish camps” outside of NOLA are considered disposable. 
 

I was thinking primarily of building homes on barrier islands - which "change locations" by nature.

Edited April 1 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,810]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

I was thinking primarily of building homes on barrier islands - which change locations by their nature.

Those are called blow away homes. Been the the trend for a while on barrier Islands.

[homersapien 11,377]

18 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Those are called blow away homes. Been the the trend for a while on barrier Islands.a

There are some very expensive homes on South Carolina barrier islands.

[SaltyTiger 7,810]

Just now, homersapien said:

There are some very expensive homes on South Carolina barrier islands.

Not blow away but if you can afford it so be it. Think we are straying from Tex original article on the insurance problem in NOLA.

[SaltyTiger 7,810]

12 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Polished concrete is a more affordable alternative.

Correct but the owner is never satisfied. Expectations are too high. Thinking terrazzo look when polished concrete is “what it is.” 

[TexasTiger 12,892]

Just now, SaltyTiger said:

Correct but the owner is never satisfied. Expectations are too high. Thinking terrazzo look when polished concrete is “what it is.” 

You get the imperfections. Most folks don’t realize how flawed concrete can be.

[SaltyTiger 7,810]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

You get the imperfections. Most folks don’t realize how flawed concrete can be.

Not imperfections, in the industry we call it “seeing the workmanship”.