Why Bragg's case is bogus

[AU9377 5,295]

6 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

I've never understood the prosecution's theory of the case.  Even if everything Cohen said is true, where is the crime?  The defense shredded Cohen's credibility yesterday for sure, but I will be very surprised if this jury doesn't convict anyway.  The prosecution has  been planning on the opposite of jury nullification all along. 

Can you justify why Cohen served time for this and Trump should be given a free pass?  I have said repeatedly that this case should have been brought by the DOJ or by nobody.  They brought a similar case against John Edwards a few years ago.  The precedent is there.  They didn't bring this one, in part, so that the prosecution would not be viewed as political. 

Trump's other legal problems are anything but political.  His base simply doesn't care what he does and allows him to act in any way he likes.  That is what is cult like about the behavior.

Edited May 17 by AU9377

[Cardin Drake 1,931]

9 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Can you justify why Cohen served time for this and Trump should be given a free pass?  I have said repeatedly that this case should have been brought by the DOJ or by nobody.  They brought a similar case against John Edwards a few years ago.  The precedent is there.  They didn't bring this one, in part, so that the prosecution would not be viewed as political. 

Trump's other legal problems are anything by political.  His base simply doesn't care what he does and allows him to act in any way he likes.  That is what is cult like about the behavior.

LOL.  They didn't bring it only because they had no case. What is truly political is the unprecedented lengths they have gone to get Trump, including sending the #3 man in the DOJ to Bragg's office to help prosecute Trump. Cohen served time for crimes that had nothing to do with Trump.  He got a better deal because he also agreed to plead guilty to campaign finance violations in an attempt by the DOJ to slime Trump with guilt by association.  

I still do not get what the prosecution's theory is of the crimes Trump committed.  It doesn't make sense.  He committed election fraud because his accountant recorded this transaction as legal fees in 2017?   Had Trump himself recorded the transactions in 2017 as "a bribe to keep Stormy Daniels from telling the truth about me", it would have had zero effect on the 2016 election. 

[Cardin Drake 1,931]

From NBC's update on today's events:

Lots of legal analysts and political pundits (who may or may not know much about the law) have opined about the prosecution's decision to charge Trump with a felony by relying on a part of the law that says documents were altered to cover up another crime.

Critics have said that the prosecution failed to show exactly what the underlying crime was. Prosecutors have alluded to two crimes that they could invoke, one being federal election law (that Cohen pleaded guilty to violating for the hush money payments) and the other being a New York state law.

Critics have said that New York prosecutors shouldn't be able to use federal law violations to prove another crime. And others have said that without even charging a New York state law violation, they have failed on that front.

But Merchan just made clear that it's not that cut and dry.

Merchan said that prosecutors aren't required to prove the underlying crime beyond a reasonable doubt — which could be a key distinction when he writes the jury instructions.

SMH, this is crazy.  New standard for criminal trials for Trump only.  We allude to crimes that he may have committed; we don't have to actually prove it.  This is why I think the jury convicts. 

[AU9377 5,295]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

From NBC's update on today's events:

Lots of legal analysts and political pundits (who may or may not know much about the law) have opined about the prosecution's decision to charge Trump with a felony by relying on a part of the law that says documents were altered to cover up another crime.

Critics have said that the prosecution failed to show exactly what the underlying crime was. Prosecutors have alluded to two crimes that they could invoke, one being federal election law (that Cohen pleaded guilty to violating for the hush money payments) and the other being a New York state law.

Critics have said that New York prosecutors shouldn't be able to use federal law violations to prove another crime. And others have said that without even charging a New York state law violation, they have failed on that front.

But Merchan just made clear that it's not that cut and dry.

Merchan said that prosecutors aren't required to prove the underlying crime beyond a reasonable doubt — which could be a key distinction when he writes the jury instructions.

SMH, this is crazy.  New standard for criminal trials for Trump only.  We allude to crimes that he may have committed; we don't have to actually prove it.  This is why I think the jury convicts. 

The actions being criminal under New York law or not does not shade the fact that with Trump and Cohen, we have crooks working for crooks.  You act like Trump is innocent in all the shady crap that was going on.  He caused the crap in the first place.  How is that not crystal clear to you?  I can only conclude that you simply don't care what he does.  He simply wears your team's jersey and you will praise the sleaze ball regardless.

This morning, the defense has made a big deal about an overcharge for payments to Redfinch corp.  You know what Redfinch does?  Their specialty is manipulating crowds and poll numbers.  Imagine that.

Edited May 20 by AU9377

[homersapien 11,633]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:18 AM, Cardin Drake said:

LOL.  They didn't bring it only because they had no case.

 

LOL.  Classic "argument from authority" logical fallacy.

Edited May 20 by homersapien

[Cardin Drake 1,931]

7 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The actions being criminal under New York law or not does not shade the fact that with Trump and Cohen, we have crooks working for crooks.  You act like Trump is innocent in all the shady crap that was going on.  He caused the crap in the first place.  How is that not crystal clear to you?  I can only conclude that you simply don't care what he does.  He simply wears your team's jersey and you will praise the sleaze ball regardless.

This morning, the defense has made a big deal about an overcharge for payments to Redfinch corp.  You know what Redfinch does?  Their specialty is manipulating crowds and poll numbers.  Imagine that.

I don't think the point about an overcharge was missed by anyone else. It showed Cohen is not only a liar; he is also a thief. 

Trump may have known about the payment to Stormy, but it was not illegal.  What specific crime(s) do you think Trump committed? 

[AU9377 5,295]

3 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

I don't think the point about an overcharge was missed by anyone else. It showed Cohen is not only a liar; he is also a thief. 

Trump may have known about the payment to Stormy, but it was not illegal.  What specific crime(s) do you think Trump committed? 

I'm not certain how many times I have to say this.... I don't believe he should have been charged in New York. Full Stop. If there were to be an indictment for this, it should have come from the DOJ.  They declined to prosecute. I should say "Biden's DOJ declined to prosecute" to keep it in the theme Trump is pushing.   Trump and Cohen had a co-dependent relationship.  Cohen would do things for Trump that most higher profile New York attorneys simply wouldn't do. 

I am not shocked one bit that Cohen took some off the top.  This is the same man that fronted over $130k to pay off a client's porn fling.  They are a mess.  That is why the former Trump COO is now serving time and why their "foundation" was shut down for being fraudulent, among a long list of things. 

[I_M4_AU 8,147]

This from Babylon Bee on the 28th:

 

Real life today:

 

 

[aubiefifty 17,343]

you folks kill me with the TDS. the truth is trump brings it all on himself. he is always smearing someone or talking about getting his enemies or giving out judges and DA's personal info including addresses. he is a rapist that brags about how he attacks women. he is a fraud and he damn sure is not a christian. at the end of the day trump has no one to blame but himself and whatever advisers he might listen to but since he is the smartest man he knows i doubt he has that excuse. lock his ass up!

[DKW 86 7,506]

On 5/20/2024 at 10:51 AM, AU9377 said:

The actions being criminal under New York law or not does not shade the fact that with Trump and Cohen, we have crooks working for crooks.  You act like Trump is innocent in all the shady crap that was going on.  He caused the crap in the first place.  How is that not crystal clear to you?  I can only conclude that you simply don't care what he does.  He simply wears your team's jersey and you will praise the sleaze ball regardless.

This morning, the defense has made a big deal about an overcharge for payments to Redfinch corp.  You know what Redfinch does?  Their specialty is manipulating crowds and poll numbers.  Imagine that.

So in American politics only Trump is guilty of this? All other pols are pure as angels on this topic? Would you believe it if I showed you that Redfinch has far more Democratic clients than Republican?

[Cardin Drake 1,931]

14 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

you folks kill me with the TDS. the truth is trump brings it all on himself. he is always smearing someone or talking about getting his enemies or giving out judges and DA's personal info including addresses. he is a rapist that brags about how he attacks women. he is a fraud and he damn sure is not a christian. at the end of the day trump has no one to blame but himself and whatever advisers he might listen to but since he is the smartest man he knows i doubt he has that excuse. lock his ass up!

A jury full of people like this is why acquittal was never an option.   A prosecutor who vowed to get Trump will convict Trump of a made up crime using a biased judge and jury.  It's a sad day for America.  It will be overturned on appeal after the election on any number of reversible errors., the most egregious of which was not telling the defendant the crime he was being charged with until after the trial started so his lawyers had no time to prepare a defense. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,308]

2 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

A jury full of people like this is why acquittal was never an option.   A prosecutor who vowed to get Trump will convict Trump of a made up crime using a biased judge and jury.  It's a sad day for America.  It will be overturned on appeal after the election on any number of reversible errors., the most egregious of which was not telling the defendant the crime he was being charged with until after the trial started so his lawyers had no time to prepare a defense. 

 

Always an excuse. Always the system rigged against poor Donald Trump, the rich, white, celebrity, elite politician who just can't catch a break and has the entire world out to get him despite being the "best" president the US has ever had.

Poor Trump...why can't anything ever go his way? Why is everyone out to get him? 

...how sad. 

 

[I_M4_AU 8,147]

7 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Always an excuse. Always the system rigged against poor Donald Trump, the rich, white, celebrity, elite politician who just can't catch a break and has the entire world out to get him despite being the "best" president the US has ever had.

Poor Trump...why can't anything ever go his way? Why is everyone out to get him? 

...how sad. 

 

I guess the alternative is being a sympathetic old fool that is too feeble to stand trial.

[Cardin Drake 1,931]

58 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Always an excuse. Always the system rigged against poor Donald Trump, the rich, white, celebrity, elite politician who just can't catch a break and has the entire world out to get him despite being the "best" president the US has ever had.

Poor Trump...why can't anything ever go his way? Why is everyone out to get him? 

...how sad. 

 

It's not paranoia when the prosecutor runs on a platform of "getting" you in a venue that is 90% democrats and charges you with a crime that nobody else has ever been prosecuted for. 

Edited May 30 by Cardin Drake

[CoffeeTiger 5,308]

12 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

It's not paranoia when the prosecutor runs on a platform of "getting" you in a venue that is 90% democrats and charges you with a crime that nobody else has ever been prosecuted with. 

Regardless of the prosecutors intentions they still have to prove their case to a jury and operate in the confines of the law. 

But I know....

The judge and jury are also completely biased and out to get Trump too. 

Like I said, I feel so bad for Trump...just nothing can go his way and the entire world is out to get him when he's done nothing wrong and has only ever tried to do the best things for everybody. 

Trump is just an every day American patriot that bleeds red, white and blue and farts out eagle screeches, but the nation he serves with every fiber of his being wants to destroy him for some reason. 

Makes me tear up at the injustice of it all. 

I hope all of Trumps mistresses', porn stars,  wives (the ones not buried in his back yard at least), and his daughter are at court to comfort him in the bosom of their fake breasts and silicone smiles. 

 

Edited May 30 by CoffeeTiger

[AU9377 5,295]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

So in American politics only Trump is guilty of this? All other pols are pure as angels on this topic? Would you believe it if I showed you that Redfinch has far more Democratic clients than Republican?

I never claimed that only one side did anything to the exclusion of the other.  Trump is just infamous for his claims about crowd size and its importance.

[AU9377 5,295]

3 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

A jury full of people like this is why acquittal was never an option.   A prosecutor who vowed to get Trump will convict Trump of a made up crime using a biased judge and jury.  It's a sad day for America.  It will be overturned on appeal after the election on any number of reversible errors., the most egregious of which was not telling the defendant the crime he was being charged with until after the trial started so his lawyers had no time to prepare a defense. 

This sounds straight out of Fox prime time.  Just because a judge applies rules, does not make him biased. The way the Trump people have attacked the judge's family is just pathetic.  Unfortunately, it is par for the course with this bunch.

[homersapien 11,633]

On 5/30/2024 at 8:27 AM, Cardin Drake said:

A jury full of people like this is why acquittal was never an option.   A prosecutor who vowed to get Trump will convict Trump of a made up crime using a biased judge and jury.  It's a sad day for America.  It will be overturned on appeal after the election on any number of reversible errors., the most egregious of which was not telling the defendant the crime he was being charged with until after the trial started so his lawyers had no time to prepare a defense. 

A jury composed of people from his home town.  Guess they know him best.

[Cardin Drake 1,931]

Alan Dershowitz, a liberal without TDS:

This is a very sad day for American justice. I have now added one banana to my usual banana republic: A grouping, umm, we’re up to seven or eight at this point- and it’s a worse day for America than it actually is for Donald Trump,” Dershowitz said. “Don’t know what the impact will be on Trump. Don’t know what it’ll be on his electoral prospects, he’s probably not going to get jail time, and if he does, it would be stayed pending appeal.”

“I don’t know whether the case will be reversed on appeal. I don’t think it would be reversed by the appellate division,” Dershowitz continued. “These are judges who are terrified of being perceived of as helping Trump in any way. Don’t know whether or not the New York Court of Appeals in Albany will have the ability to not consider the impact it will have on individuals as judges. Surely the Supreme Court wouldn’t, but that’s a way off and there wouldn’t be a decision by the Supreme Court, probably before the election.”

New York Judge Juan Merchan was accused of having a bias against Trump during his handling of the case. Merchan donated $15 to Biden’s presidential campaign in 2020 and made two $10 donations to Democratic groups via ActBlue, one to a “Stop Republicans” group and another to a “Progressive Turnout Project,” according to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records.

Merchan’s daughter, Loren, worked for a firm that helped Democrats raise $93 million off the former president’s indictment in the business records case,  the New York Post reported in March. Dershowitz compared the jury’s verdict to those made in the deep South before the Civil Rights movement.

“This is still the weakest case I’ve ever seen in 60 years. The fact that the jury convicted based on false instructions, wrong instructions, based on the jurors having been between 85 and 90 percent picked from a veneer that hates Trump and doesn’t want him to be president, the fact that the jury convicted doesn’t make this case any stronger or any better,” Dershowitz said. “I was recently just 15 minutes ago on with The Times of London and they were saying, ‘Well, doesn’t the fact that the jury convicted prove it was a strong case?’ No, no! It proves that it was of a case that was brought in a jurisdiction where a conviction was almost assuredly guaranteed.”

“In the South, when they convicted black people improperly with an all-white jury or acquitted white people improperly with an all-white jury, that didn’t mean that those convictions were correct. It just meant that the jury didn’t reflect the values of our, of our country, it reflected the values of a particular region of the country, in this case the region is a liberal region, New York, in the Southern cases, the region was the conservative region of the South,” Dershowitz continued.

“Juries are imperfect and juries represent the biases of individuals,” Dershowitz added. “We do live in the age of Trump syndrome, people can’t talk rationally about Donald Trump any more than they can talk rationally about Israel or about some other subjects.”

[AU9377 5,295]

3 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

Alan Dershowitz, a liberal without TDS:

This is a very sad day for American justice. I have now added one banana to my usual banana republic: A grouping, umm, we’re up to seven or eight at this point- and it’s a worse day for America than it actually is for Donald Trump,” Dershowitz said. “Don’t know what the impact will be on Trump. Don’t know what it’ll be on his electoral prospects, he’s probably not going to get jail time, and if he does, it would be stayed pending appeal.”

“I don’t know whether the case will be reversed on appeal. I don’t think it would be reversed by the appellate division,” Dershowitz continued. “These are judges who are terrified of being perceived of as helping Trump in any way. Don’t know whether or not the New York Court of Appeals in Albany will have the ability to not consider the impact it will have on individuals as judges. Surely the Supreme Court wouldn’t, but that’s a way off and there wouldn’t be a decision by the Supreme Court, probably before the election.”

New York Judge Juan Merchan was accused of having a bias against Trump during his handling of the case. Merchan donated $15 to Biden’s presidential campaign in 2020 and made two $10 donations to Democratic groups via ActBlue, one to a “Stop Republicans” group and another to a “Progressive Turnout Project,” according to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records.

Merchan’s daughter, Loren, worked for a firm that helped Democrats raise $93 million off the former president’s indictment in the business records case,  the New York Post reported in March. Dershowitz compared the jury’s verdict to those made in the deep South before the Civil Rights movement.

“This is still the weakest case I’ve ever seen in 60 years. The fact that the jury convicted based on false instructions, wrong instructions, based on the jurors having been between 85 and 90 percent picked from a veneer that hates Trump and doesn’t want him to be president, the fact that the jury convicted doesn’t make this case any stronger or any better,” Dershowitz said. “I was recently just 15 minutes ago on with The Times of London and they were saying, ‘Well, doesn’t the fact that the jury convicted prove it was a strong case?’ No, no! It proves that it was of a case that was brought in a jurisdiction where a conviction was almost assuredly guaranteed.”

“In the South, when they convicted black people improperly with an all-white jury or acquitted white people improperly with an all-white jury, that didn’t mean that those convictions were correct. It just meant that the jury didn’t reflect the values of our, of our country, it reflected the values of a particular region of the country, in this case the region is a liberal region, New York, in the Southern cases, the region was the conservative region of the South,” Dershowitz continued.

“Juries are imperfect and juries represent the biases of individuals,” Dershowitz added. “We do live in the age of Trump syndrome, people can’t talk rationally about Donald Trump any more than they can talk rationally about Israel or about some other subjects.”

Dershowitz just wants to be in the middle of something.  This is as much word salad as prime rib.

[aubaseball 2,700]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:02 AM, AU9377 said:

This sounds straight out of Fox prime time.  Just because a judge applies rules, does not make him biased. The way the Trump people have attacked the judge's family is just pathetic.  Unfortunately, it is par for the course with this bunch.

Have you seen how they went after Supreme Court justices?  Just making sure it’s equal reporting 

Edited May 31 by aubaseball

[cbo 8,064]

3 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

Alan Dershowitz, a liberal without TDS:

This is a very sad day for American justice. I have now added one banana to my usual banana republic: A grouping, umm, we’re up to seven or eight at this point- and it’s a worse day for America than it actually is for Donald Trump,” Dershowitz said. “Don’t know what the impact will be on Trump. Don’t know what it’ll be on his electoral prospects, he’s probably not going to get jail time, and if he does, it would be stayed pending appeal.”

“I don’t know whether the case will be reversed on appeal. I don’t think it would be reversed by the appellate division,” Dershowitz continued. “These are judges who are terrified of being perceived of as helping Trump in any way. Don’t know whether or not the New York Court of Appeals in Albany will have the ability to not consider the impact it will have on individuals as judges. Surely the Supreme Court wouldn’t, but that’s a way off and there wouldn’t be a decision by the Supreme Court, probably before the election.”

New York Judge Juan Merchan was accused of having a bias against Trump during his handling of the case. Merchan donated $15 to Biden’s presidential campaign in 2020 and made two $10 donations to Democratic groups via ActBlue, one to a “Stop Republicans” group and another to a “Progressive Turnout Project,” according to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records.

Merchan’s daughter, Loren, worked for a firm that helped Democrats raise $93 million off the former president’s indictment in the business records case,  the New York Post reported in March. Dershowitz compared the jury’s verdict to those made in the deep South before the Civil Rights movement.

“This is still the weakest case I’ve ever seen in 60 years. The fact that the jury convicted based on false instructions, wrong instructions, based on the jurors having been between 85 and 90 percent picked from a veneer that hates Trump and doesn’t want him to be president, the fact that the jury convicted doesn’t make this case any stronger or any better,” Dershowitz said. “I was recently just 15 minutes ago on with The Times of London and they were saying, ‘Well, doesn’t the fact that the jury convicted prove it was a strong case?’ No, no! It proves that it was of a case that was brought in a jurisdiction where a conviction was almost assuredly guaranteed.”

“In the South, when they convicted black people improperly with an all-white jury or acquitted white people improperly with an all-white jury, that didn’t mean that those convictions were correct. It just meant that the jury didn’t reflect the values of our, of our country, it reflected the values of a particular region of the country, in this case the region is a liberal region, New York, in the Southern cases, the region was the conservative region of the South,” Dershowitz continued.

“Juries are imperfect and juries represent the biases of individuals,” Dershowitz added. “We do live in the age of Trump syndrome, people can’t talk rationally about Donald Trump any more than they can talk rationally about Israel or about some other subjects.”

To all the doctors on the board: how can I tell if I have TDS or simply a bad case of the woke mind virus?

I am getting very worried because I do not see the connection between a billionaire's trial and historic racism in the south. 

Please advise. 

[AU9377 5,295]

7 hours ago, aubaseball said:

Have you seen how they went after Supreme Court justices?  Just making sure it’s equal reporting 

Even though I didn't like the Kavanaugh confirmation fiasco, I do believe they need to be put under a microscope in general.  They have lifetime appointments. They are expected to be above the fray.  Their position requires them to show restraint and not be involved in politics outside the court. 

This is a state court judge that, well before this case came about, had made small donations to democratic campaigns.  His daughter works for the Biden campaign or did.  None of that means anything  when it comes to his application of New York law.  The only reason that Trump dislikes the man is that the man does him no favors.  He treats him like any other defendant, with the exception of giving him way more freedom than the average defendant would get to violate a gag order.

[Didba 5,298]

10 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

Alan Dershowitz, a liberal without TDS:

This is a very sad day for American justice. I have now added one banana to my usual banana republic: A grouping, umm, we’re up to seven or eight at this point- and it’s a worse day for America than it actually is for Donald Trump,” Dershowitz said. “Don’t know what the impact will be on Trump. Don’t know what it’ll be on his electoral prospects, he’s probably not going to get jail time, and if he does, it would be stayed pending appeal.”

“I don’t know whether the case will be reversed on appeal. I don’t think it would be reversed by the appellate division,” Dershowitz continued. “These are judges who are terrified of being perceived of as helping Trump in any way. Don’t know whether or not the New York Court of Appeals in Albany will have the ability to not consider the impact it will have on individuals as judges. Surely the Supreme Court wouldn’t, but that’s a way off and there wouldn’t be a decision by the Supreme Court, probably before the election.”

New York Judge Juan Merchan was accused of having a bias against Trump during his handling of the case. Merchan donated $15 to Biden’s presidential campaign in 2020 and made two $10 donations to Democratic groups via ActBlue, one to a “Stop Republicans” group and another to a “Progressive Turnout Project,” according to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records.

Merchan’s daughter, Loren, worked for a firm that helped Democrats raise $93 million off the former president’s indictment in the business records case,  the New York Post reported in March. Dershowitz compared the jury’s verdict to those made in the deep South before the Civil Rights movement.

“This is still the weakest case I’ve ever seen in 60 years. The fact that the jury convicted based on false instructions, wrong instructions, based on the jurors having been between 85 and 90 percent picked from a veneer that hates Trump and doesn’t want him to be president, the fact that the jury convicted doesn’t make this case any stronger or any better,” Dershowitz said. “I was recently just 15 minutes ago on with The Times of London and they were saying, ‘Well, doesn’t the fact that the jury convicted prove it was a strong case?’ No, no! It proves that it was of a case that was brought in a jurisdiction where a conviction was almost assuredly guaranteed.”

“In the South, when they convicted black people improperly with an all-white jury or acquitted white people improperly with an all-white jury, that didn’t mean that those convictions were correct. It just meant that the jury didn’t reflect the values of our, of our country, it reflected the values of a particular region of the country, in this case the region is a liberal region, New York, in the Southern cases, the region was the conservative region of the South,” Dershowitz continued.

“Juries are imperfect and juries represent the biases of individuals,” Dershowitz added. “We do live in the age of Trump syndrome, people can’t talk rationally about Donald Trump any more than they can talk rationally about Israel or about some other subjects.”

Just saying it’s really a stretch too still claim Dershowitz is a liberal at the point or ever was really. He’s always been a moderate neoliberal. 

[TexasTiger 13,285]

5 hours ago, Didba said:

Just saying it’s really a stretch too still claim Dershowitz is a liberal at the point or ever was really. He’s always been a moderate neoliberal. 

He’s always been an arrogant ass.