Haditha Handwringing

[Tigermike 3,046]

Haditha Handwringing

The last thing we need in response to Haditha is hand-wringing liberalism.

by William Kristol

06/12/2006, Volume 011, Issue 37

U.S. MARINES are under investigation for alleged misconduct in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. The inquiry into the events at Haditha last November 19 is ongoing--but the Nation's editors already know what happened: A U.S. "war crime"! A military "massacre"! A "cover-up"! (And also a "willful, targeted brutality designed to send a message to Iraqis"--something a cover-up would seem to make more difficult.) The anti-American left can barely be bothered to conceal its glee.

As for the pro-American left, they write more in sorrow than in anger. Here's The New Republic's Peter Beinart:

Americans can be as barbaric as anyone. What makes us an exceptional nation with the capacity to lead and inspire the world is our very recognition of that fact. We are capable of Hadithas and My Lais, so is everyone. But few societies are capable of acknowledging what happened, bringing the killers to justice, and instituting changes that make it less likely to happen again. That's how we show we are different from the jihadists. We don't just assert it. We prove it. That's the liberal version of American exceptionalism, and it's what we need right now in response to this horror.

No, it isn't. The last thing we need in response to Haditha is hand-wringing liberalism. The war against the jihadists, a war Beinart supports, is not a metaphorical one. Liberals may want to win a war on terror without fighting, and are shocked that in a war, crimes and abuses occur. But here's the hard, Trumanesque truth: In war, terrible things happen, including crimes and abuses and cover-ups.

Let's be clear: Crimes and cover-ups cannot be excused or tolerated. They must be investigated, and the individuals involved, and their commanders, must be held accountable and punished. As the Marine Corps commandant points out, the Marine Hymn pledges that we "keep our honor clean." This is happening. All nations' soldiers commit crimes, and decent nations punish them. But it is not true that "what makes us an exceptional nation with the capacity to lead and inspire the world" is that we recognize we can be barbaric and that we punish barbarism.

What makes us exceptional is that we stand for liberty, and that we are willing to fight for liberty. We don't need to "prove" we are different from the jihadists by bringing our own soldiers, if they have done something wrong, to justice. Of course we must and will do this. But our doing this "proves" nothing. Even if there were ten Hadithas, we would still not have to "prove" that we are "different from the jihadists." The idea would be offensive if it were not ludicrous.

What we do have to prove is that we are strong enough to fight this war, and intelligent enough to win it. Our political and military leadership has to be serious enough to reconsider failing tactics and strategy, and capable enough to do what it takes to win.

Supporters of the war have engaged in a vigorous debate, in these pages and elsewhere, about how better to fight this war. It would be encouraging if more people at senior levels of the military seemed to be engaged in this kind of serious thinking and rethinking. It would be encouraging if more civilians high up in the Pentagon were engaged in such a debate. It would be encouraging if a single person in the White House seemed to be engaged in a real effort to learn from mistakes, so as to adjust our policy to make success more likely.

The American people understand we are at war. They will support what has to be done. The remarkable men and women in uniform will do their jobs in an exemplary way. The military leadership seems competent--and can be shaken up if it is not. The question is whether our political leadership is strong and able enough. And the buck stops with the president.

Does the president really believe, as he said at his recent press conference with Prime Minister Blair, that the Iraq war's greatest mistake was Abu Ghraib? Or was this just a way of ducking the question? After all, the damage done to the war effort by Abu Ghraib pales beside the damage done by not having enough troops in theater, by refusing to send additional troops, by wasting a year before beginning seriously to build up the Iraqi army, by the April 2004 aborted battle for Falluja, and the like.

Obviously the president wasn't going to say this. Fine. But does he understand it? Perhaps. It is heartening that he met last week, in private, with a group of diverse experts on Iraq, in order to get fresh points of view about the situation there. The president understands that this war isn't going to be won unless he ensures that it gets won. It won't get won if the president doesn't aggressively defend the honor of our soldiers and Marines. And it won't get won if we succumb to liberal hand-wringing, or indulge in conservative happy talk. But it must get won. Winning the wars this nation commits to is also the way we keep our honor clean.

link

[TexasTiger 12,992]

Haditha Handwringing

The last thing we need in response to Haditha is hand-wringing liberalism.

by William Kristol

06/12/2006, Volume 011, Issue 37

U.S. MARINES are under investigation for alleged misconduct in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. The inquiry into the events at Haditha last November 19 is ongoing--but the Nation's editors already know what happened: A U.S. "war crime"! A military "massacre"! A "cover-up"! (And also a "willful, targeted brutality designed to send a message to Iraqis"--something a cover-up would seem to make more difficult.) The anti-American left can barely be bothered to conceal its glee.

As for the pro-American left, they write more in sorrow than in anger. Here's The New Republic's Peter Beinart:

Americans can be as barbaric as anyone. What makes us an exceptional nation with the capacity to lead and inspire the world is our very recognition of that fact. We are capable of Hadithas and My Lais, so is everyone. But few societies are capable of acknowledging what happened, bringing the killers to justice, and instituting changes that make it less likely to happen again. That's how we show we are different from the jihadists. We don't just assert it. We prove it. That's the liberal version of American exceptionalism, and it's what we need right now in response to this horror.

No, it isn't. The last thing we need in response to Haditha is hand-wringing liberalism. The war against the jihadists, a war Beinart supports, is not a metaphorical one. Liberals may want to win a war on terror without fighting, and are shocked that in a war, crimes and abuses occur. But here's the hard, Trumanesque truth: In war, terrible things happen, including crimes and abuses and cover-ups.

Let's be clear: Crimes and cover-ups cannot be excused or tolerated. They must be investigated, and the individuals involved, and their commanders, must be held accountable and punished. As the Marine Corps commandant points out, the Marine Hymn pledges that we "keep our honor clean." This is happening. All nations' soldiers commit crimes, and decent nations punish them. But it is not true that "what makes us an exceptional nation with the capacity to lead and inspire the world" is that we recognize we can be barbaric and that we punish barbarism.

What makes us exceptional is that we stand for liberty, and that we are willing to fight for liberty. We don't need to "prove" we are different from the jihadists by bringing our own soldiers, if they have done something wrong, to justice. Of course we must and will do this. But our doing this "proves" nothing. Even if there were ten Hadithas, we would still not have to "prove" that we are "different from the jihadists." The idea would be offensive if it were not ludicrous.

What we do have to prove is that we are strong enough to fight this war, and intelligent enough to win it. Our political and military leadership has to be serious enough to reconsider failing tactics and strategy, and capable enough to do what it takes to win.

Supporters of the war have engaged in a vigorous debate, in these pages and elsewhere, about how better to fight this war. It would be encouraging if more people at senior levels of the military seemed to be engaged in this kind of serious thinking and rethinking. It would be encouraging if more civilians high up in the Pentagon were engaged in such a debate. It would be encouraging if a single person in the White House seemed to be engaged in a real effort to learn from mistakes, so as to adjust our policy to make success more likely.

The American people understand we are at war. They will support what has to be done. The remarkable men and women in uniform will do their jobs in an exemplary way. The military leadership seems competent--and can be shaken up if it is not. The question is whether our political leadership is strong and able enough. And the buck stops with the president.

Does the president really believe, as he said at his recent press conference with Prime Minister Blair, that the Iraq war's greatest mistake was Abu Ghraib? Or was this just a way of ducking the question? After all, the damage done to the war effort by Abu Ghraib pales beside the damage done by not having enough troops in theater, by refusing to send additional troops, by wasting a year before beginning seriously to build up the Iraqi army, by the April 2004 aborted battle for Falluja, and the like.

Obviously the president wasn't going to say this. Fine. But does he understand it? Perhaps. It is heartening that he met last week, in private, with a group of diverse experts on Iraq, in order to get fresh points of view about the situation there. The president understands that this war isn't going to be won unless he ensures that it gets won. It won't get won if the president doesn't aggressively defend the honor of our soldiers and Marines. And it won't get won if we succumb to liberal hand-wringing, or indulge in conservative happy talk. But it must get won. Winning the wars this nation commits to is also the way we keep our honor clean.

link

238304[/snapback]

What makes us exceptional is that we stand for liberty, and that we are willing to fight for liberty.

Or, in the case of Kristol and most other Chickent Hawk, Chicken ****, Neocons, our willingness to let others fight wars that we think advance our agenda.

[Tigermike 3,046]

Or in the case of most all Chicken $hit, liberal, Cut and run dimocrats, nothing is worth fighting for. Just stay at home and sing Kum Ba Ya and let the terrorists do what ever they wish where ever they wish. If you folks directed as much effort at terrorists activities as you have at W for the past five years, I wonder how things would be.

[Ranger12 46]

Or in the case of most all Chicken $hit, liberal, Cut and run dimocrats, nothing is worth fighting for.  Just stay at home and sing Kum Ba Ya and let the terrorists do what ever they wish where ever they wish.  If you folks directed as much effort at terrorists activities as you have at W for the past five years, I wonder how things would be.

238368[/snapback]

Preach on! Liberals have never wanted to do anything about terrorism and they never will. They will always be critical of anybody that does. They think if they pretend like it does not exist, then it will go away. Liberals are a bunch of freakin' bandwagon politicians that would rather criticize then come up with solutions.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

We created the terrorists.

http://www.navyseals.com/community/articles/print.cfm?id=4328

I had an unusual education in the Holocaust. When I was working for the Attorney General, I was assigned to do the classified research about the Holocaust, so I went underground to a little town called Suitland, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C. and that's where the US Government buries its secrets - - literally.

There are twenty vaults underground and each vault is one acre in size. Anyone see the movie “Raiders of the Lost Ark”? The last scene of that movie is what the underground vaults are really like, only not as organized as they are in the movie. And in those underground vaults I discovered something horrible.

I learned that many of the Nazis that I had been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll, but the CIA didn't know they were Nazis because the British Intelligence Service had lied to them. What the British Intelligence Service didn't know was that their liar was Kim Philby, the Soviet communist double agent -- a little scandal of the Cold War. But our State Department swept it all under the rug and allowed the Nazis to stay in America until I was stupid enough to go public with it.

What do you do when you want to go public with a story like this one? You call up “60 Minutes.” We had a great time. Mike Wallace gave me 30 minutes on his show. For a long time, it was the longest segment that 60 minutes ever did. When the episode about Nazis in America went on the air back in 1982, it caused a minor national uproar. Congress demanded hearings, Mike Wallace got the Emmy award, and my family got the death threats. It was a great trip.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

Or in the case of most all Chicken $hit, liberal, Cut and run dimocrats, nothing is worth fighting for.  Just stay at home and sing Kum Ba Ya and let the terrorists do what ever they wish where ever they wish.  If you folks directed as much effort at terrorists activities as you have at W for the past five years, I wonder how things would be.

238368[/snapback]

Funny thing about military service. Far more elected Dems served.

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

I don't know why you guys hate the song "Kum ba ya" so much. The only place I ever sang at was at Southern Baptist youth group gatherings. I understand you hate America. Do you hate God, too?

http://www.higherpraise.com/lyrics1/Kum_Ba_Ya.htm

[Tigermike 3,046]

Funny I understand when you have little ammunition to argue with, you attack the writer then make personal attacks on any and all who point that out. Keep on "keeping the discussion at a higher level", Tex.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

Funny I understand when you have little ammunition to argue with, you attack the writer then make personal attacks on any and all who point that out.  Keep on "keeping the discussion at a higher level", Tex.

238402[/snapback]

How do you propose one respond differently to this:

Or in the case of most all Chicken $hit, liberal, Cut and run dimocrats, nothing is worth fighting for. Just stay at home and sing Kum Ba Ya and let the terrorists do what ever they wish where ever they wish. If you folks directed as much effort at terrorists activities as you have at W for the past five years, I wonder how things would be.

I respond to Kristol-- a key architect of the policy to invade Iraq-- and you make it about "you folks." Almost every post you make is an attack on "the left"-- often it is an imaginary "left", but that's the limit to your ability to "discuss."

[Tigermike 3,046]

Or, in the case of Kristol and most other Chickent Hawk, Chicken ****, Neocons, our willingness to let others fight wars that we think advance our agenda.

238308[/snapback]

And this was taking the high road wasn't it Tex? You ascribe whole heartily to the Left's politics of personal destruction, don't you.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

Or, in the case of Kristol and most other Chickent Hawk, Chicken ****, Neocons, our willingness to let others fight wars that we think advance our agenda.

238308[/snapback]

And this was taking the high road wasn't it Tex? You ascribe whole heartily to the Left's politics of personal destruction, don't you.

238410[/snapback]

In response to this:

hat makes us exceptional is that we stand for liberty, and that we are willing to fight for liberty

Again, almost every new post you make is an attack on "the left". I've seen little desire for substantive political discussion from you on any issue. But it became pretty clear early on that that wasn't really what this board was for.

[Tigermike 3,046]

Or, in the case of Kristol and most other Chickent Hawk, Chicken ****, Neocons, our willingness to let others fight wars that we think advance our agenda.

238308[/snapback]

And this was taking the high road wasn't it Tex? You ascribe whole heartily to the Left's politics of personal destruction, don't you.

238410[/snapback]

In response to this:

hat makes us exceptional is that we stand for liberty, and that we are willing to fight for liberty

Again, almost every new post you make is an attack on "the left". I've seen little desire for substantive political discussion from you on any issue. But it became pretty clear early on that that wasn't really what this board was for.

238421[/snapback]

What makes us exceptional is that we stand for liberty, and that we are willing to fight for liberty. We don't need to "prove" we are different from the jihadists by bringing our own soldiers, if they have done something wrong, to justice. Of course we must and will do this. But our doing this "proves" nothing. Even if there were ten Hadithas, we would still not have to "prove" that we are "different from the jihadists." The idea would be offensive if it were not ludicrous.

You use that statement to denigrate all conservatives, all who think the war on terrorism has to be won. Are you saying that terrorism should not be fought?

What makes us exceptional is that we stand for liberty, and that we are willing to fight for liberty.

Or, in the case of Kristol and most other Chickent Hawk, Chicken ****, Neocons, our willingness to let others fight wars that we think advance our agenda.

238308[/snapback]

We can always depend on Tex for "substantive political discussion", can't we? Hypocrite thy name is Texastiger. I have said that before and it is always after you start your personal attacks.

You disregarded this,

Let's be clear: Crimes and cover-ups cannot be excused or tolerated. They must be investigated, and the individuals involved, and their commanders, must be held accountable and punished. As the Marine Corps commandant points out, the Marine Hymn pledges that we "keep our honor clean." This is happening. All nations' soldiers commit crimes, and decent nations punish them. But it is not true that "what makes us an exceptional nation with the capacity to lead and inspire the world" is that we recognize we can be barbaric and that we punish barbarism.

Again, almost every new post you make is an attack on "the left".  I've seen little desire for substantive political discussion from you on any issue.  But it became pretty clear early on that that wasn't really what this board was for.

238421[/snapback]

This is a free forum, you are free to post any and all articles/opinions that rip the right. Wait, you have done that for the past 6 or 7 years haven't you? I have said it before and will say it again now. I would be willing to bet there are more post by me which are critical of Republicans than there are from you that are critical of dimocrats.