Disproving the myth

[quietfan 233]

Do you, like me, get tired of hearing Bama fans say the only reason CTT is doing well in recruiting is because of UAT's probation? Tired of hearing about how many players we "stole" from them? Huntsville Times' Phillip Marshall has the facts:

http://www.al.com/sports/huntsvilletimes/i...ll=1&thispage=1

Tide, Tigers don't bump heads too often

Tuesday, July 11, 2006

By PHILLIP MARSHALL

It's the same story every recruiting season.

In this state, head-to-head battles between Alabama and Auburn get most of the attention. Fans wait eagerly for the decisions of high school seniors. But those battles often aren't the most significant ones.

The starters for both schools going into the 2006 season tell the story.

Of Auburn's projected starters, only offensive guard Ben Grubbs and defensive tackle Christopher Browder were lured away from Alabama.

Grubbs chose Auburn over Alabama late in the process. Browder signed with Alabama, went to junior college and signed with Auburn.

At Alabama, tight end Travis McCall, center Antoine Caldwell, offensive tackle Kyle Tatum, strong linebacker Eric Gray, strong safety Marcus Carter strongly considered Auburn before signing with Alabama.

Between the two teams, that leaves a total of 37 projected starters - not including specialists - who are not products of head-to-head recruiting competition between the two schools. They either didn't have offers from both or didn't seriously consider both.

Ironically, neither starting quarterback had offers from both schools, though both are in-state products. Auburn's Brandon Cox played at Hewitt-Trussville and grew up an Alabama fan but was not offered a scholarship by the Tide. Alabama's John Parker Wilson played at Hoover but was never seriously recruited by Auburn.

Of players mentioned as preseason All-Southeastern Conference performers, only Auburn's Grubbs and Alabama's Caldwell came from head-to-head recruiting battles.

At Alabama, tailback Kenneth Darby didn't seriously consider Auburn. Neither linebacker Juwan Simpson nor cornerback Ramzee Robinson were offered scholarships by Auburn.

Alabama was not a factor with Auburn tailback Kenny Irons, cornerback David Irons or offensive guard Tim Duckworth.

Neither linebacker Will Herring nor wide receiver Courtney Taylor, both in-state products, were offered scholarships by Alabama.

...

I'm not denying that anytime your rival is down it's good for you, but if only Grubbs & Browder of our starters even considered Bama, I don't see how one can argue that our success is built on their collapse.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

I don't see how one can argue that our success is built on their collapse.

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No one has ever accused "them" of using logic in their argument. The hallucinogenic properties of red kool-aid are unequalled.

[AFTiger 282]

The the corollary to that proposition is that Alabama's success came at Auburn's expense. No wonder those fiends tried so hard to destroy the Auburn program.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

AFTiger, they tried but the dirtbag SOB's COULD NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!! AU is at the top of the college football world and the bammerfart basturds can't stand it and they sure can't handle it well....now, the desperation is fueled by one scary thought for them:in order to move to the top of the heap again, they have to depend on baby shula to lead them there.....with that thought, do you understand why they are in meltdown mode?....shula couldn't lead a GAY PRIDE PARADE......or on second thought, maybe he could

[BamaGrad03 0]

Well...Brandon Cox would have had a Bama offer if we didnt have a retard coaching us on 2002.

Auburn did offer projected starting WR Matt Caddell. Guys like Simeon and Tim Castille would have gotten AU offers if they werent Bama locks all along. Andre Smith had an AU offer but I think it was a token one.

Browder signed with bama but didnt get the offer when he came out of juco. I dont think it was because he wasnt good enough...i just think we already had verbals at that spot.

AU offered David Ross and Andre Caldwell. Bama would have GLADLY taken Blackmon, but i dont think they ever offered because he wasnt even considering Bama. UA also offered Tim Hawthorne who will play a lot for AU this year.

The article is a bit misleading. And I do think AU benefits from UA being down...and UA benifits from AU being down. It just makes sense. Carnell Williams has already stated openly that he didnt follow his friend Brodie to UA because of our sanctions. And how many guys did bama rake in when AU was struggling in the late 90s?

Im not saying the ONLY reason AU is doing well is because we've been down. But it sure hasnt hurt. Just like it wouldnt hurt Bama if you guys got hammered with probation tomorrow...

I honestly would rather see both teams winning 10 games a year. Get the state of AL back where it belongs in football lore...and keep teams like UF and UGA from cherry picking great talent from our state.

[vatz22au 142]

Well...Brandon Cox would have had a Bama offer if we didnt have a retard coaching us on 2002.

Auburn did offer projected starting WR Matt Caddell. Guys like Simeon and Tim Castille would have gotten AU offers if they werent Bama locks all along. Andre Smith had an AU offer but I think it was a token one.

Browder signed with bama but didnt get the offer when he came out of juco. I dont think it was because he wasnt good enough...i just think we already had verbals at that spot.

AU offered David Ross and Andre Caldwell. Bama would have GLADLY taken Blackmon, but i dont think they ever offered because he wasnt even considering Bama. UA also offered Tim Hawthorne who will play a lot for AU this year.

The article is a bit misleading. And I do think AU benefits from UA being down...and UA benifits from AU being down. It just makes sense. Carnell Williams has already stated openly that he didnt follow his friend Brodie to UA because of our sanctions. And how many guys did bama rake in when AU was struggling in the late 90s?

Im not saying the ONLY reason AU is doing well is because we've been down. But it sure hasnt hurt. Just like it wouldnt hurt Bama if you guys got hammered with probation tomorrow...

I honestly would rather see both teams winning 10 games a year. Get the state of AL back where it belongs in football lore...and keep teams like UF and UGA from cherry picking great talent from our state.

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Your full of more excuses than anybody I know.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Your full of more excuses than anybody I know.

Reading comprehension is lost on you i guess.

Where were there excuses in my post? I didnt slam AU or laud Bama...all I stated were facts.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

"No worries mate."

[AWK 0]

Your full of more excuses than anybody I know.

Reading comprehension is lost on you i guess.

Where were there excuses in my post? I didnt slam AU or laud Bama...all I stated were facts.

246578[/snapback]

Technically, this

Well...Brandon Cox would have had a Bama offer if we didnt have a retard coaching us on 2002.

is an excuse.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Thats not an excuse. Im not saying he would have gone to Bama had we offered. Im saying our coach was an idiot for not offering him. That year he offered Brandon flippin Avalos instead because he wanted an option QB and not a passing one.

[vatz22au 142]

*edit - not wasting my time

[BamaGrad03 0]

*edit - not wasting my time

Thanks...

[WarTim 3,456]

Your full of more excuses than anybody I know.

Reading comprehension is lost on you i guess.

Where were there excuses in my post? I didnt slam AU or laud Bama...all I stated were facts.

246578[/snapback]

Technically, this

Well...Brandon Cox would have had a Bama offer if we didnt have a retard coaching us on 2002.

is an excuse.

246583[/snapback]

.....And Bo Jackson may have went to west vance but for one IDIOT coach.

Hmmm...Maybe uat should try hiring coaches that have a few brain cells. (Obviously, they have not figured that out YET.)

[AURainman 6]

BG...Isn't your Avatar a celebration pic from when that "Retard" was coaching? Wasn't that the last time Bama tasted sweet victory over the Tigers?

[TigerOne 1,147]

according to stupid bammers everyone in the SEC wants to play at uat.

And all coaches want to coach there.

Ahh in a bammers mind the whole football world revolves around them.

Meanwhile college football has prospered without them

=

[BamaGrad03 0]

  BG...Isn't your Avatar a celebration pic from when that "Retard" was coaching? Wasn't that the last time Bama tasted sweet victory over the Tigers?

My Avatar is from our win in Knoxville in 02. But he didnt beat them with Brandon Avalos at QB.

  according to stupid bammers everyone in the SEC wants to play at uat.

And all coaches want to coach there.

Ahh in a bammers mind the whole football world revolves around them.

Meanwhile college football has prospered without them moon.gif

alabama.gif = bawling.gif

Did you read what I posted?

[AUesquire 1]

It's really hard to say with any certainty how much, if any, we benefit from a time period when Bama is down. The one time I really feel a team will benefit is if the other is going through or is facing NCAA troubles. Not just from the reductions in schollys but just as much from kids not wanting to go where a team might be limited in what they can do in the future because of sanctions.

These days, kids really weigh their options from a standpoint of where they can get the most immediate playing time.

[AFTiger 282]

I honestly would rather see both teams winning 10 games a year. Get the state of AL back where it belongs in football lore...and keep teams like UF and UGA from cherry picking great talent from our state.

246571[/snapback]

A rational statement from BF03!!!!!!

[MDM4AU 332]

I am going to back BG on this. His post was rather reasonable. Regarding the part about Cox, he grew up a Bama fan. He was interviewed on a B'ham TV station around the time he signed with AU stating that he had been a Bama fan growing up, but his "heart was now orange and blue." Or something to that effect.

[vatz22au 142]

I am  going to back BG on this. His post was rather reasonable.  Regarding the part about Cox, he grew up a Bama fan.  He was interviewed on a B'ham TV station around the time he signed with AU stating that he had been a Bama fan growing up, but his "heart was now orange and blue." Or something to that effect.

246670[/snapback]

That provides no help into BG's argument. His basic point was to prove that yes, in some way or fashion, Bama being on probation helped AU from a standpoint.

Cox wasn't even recruited by Bama in the first place, so how can this be a valid reason to prove that Bama being on probation helped Auburn?

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Actually, what BG said was that logically it does help AU for Bama to be down AND that it helps Bama for AU to be down:

I do think AU benefits from UA being down...and UA benifits from AU being down. It just makes sense. Carnell Williams has already stated openly that he didnt follow his friend Brodie to UA because of our sanctions. And how many guys did bama rake in when AU was struggling in the late 90s?

Im not saying the ONLY reason AU is doing well is because we've been down. But it sure hasnt hurt. Just like it wouldnt hurt Bama if you guys got hammered with probation tomorrow...

I don't think he was trying to make excuses, he was just saying something I think we all know is true. One less strong opponent out there for kids to consider is always a bonus. Lighten up folks and reserve the immediate sniping type posts for dumb bammers that deserve it like CapstoneCAS.

[vatz22au 142]

Actually, what BG said was that logically it does help AU for Bama to be down AND that it helps Bama for AU to be down

246674[/snapback]

I know...

His basic point was to prove that yes, in some way or fashion, Bama being on probation helped AU from a standpoint.

And to help explain things further, the excuses comment was basically something I threw out there when seeing things as of "late," not really directly aimed at that one specific post.

[BamaGrad03 0]

  I am going to back BG on this. His post was rather reasonable. Regarding the part about Cox, he grew up a Bama fan. He was interviewed on a B'ham TV station around the time he signed with AU stating that he had been a Bama fan growing up, but his "heart was now orange and blue." Or something to that effect.

Though had Cox recieved an offer from Bama, he may have even still picked AU since we were running an option attack at the time. Even if he was a Bama fan. He made the right choice. Not because he picked AU over anyone else...but because he picked a great scheme/system for him.

Cox wasn't even recruited by Bama in the first place, so how can this be a valid reason to prove that Bama being on probation helped Auburn?

Again, if you read what i posted...youd see that i didnt say anything about Cox and us being on probation.

But thanks for proving, yet again, that you dont care what the topic is...you just want to be anti bama.

[vatz22au 142]

But thanks for proving, yet again, that you dont care what the topic is...you just want to be anti bama.

246681[/snapback]

If you think for one minute that I'm anti-bama in an instant to every post you make, you are sadly mistaken my friend. Your about as anti-Auburn as I am with bama, you of all people know that.

And yes, the topic was," Disproving the myth, AU up cause UAT's down?" in which case it was pointing towards the so called "myth" that Auburn was helped by Bama's failures. I'm guessing I was on topic. I was merely pointing out that the topic of recruiting Cox has no play into this thread.

[MDM4AU 332]

I am not saying that AU benefited with Cox in particular. I was just stating that Cox was a UAT fan growing up. It is very likely that had UAT offered a scholly, he could have been a Turd.

In recruiting, I feel that one benefits from the other being down in cases of players truly looking at both schools. Some players get offers from one school with out a chance of them actually going there (see Andre Smith). But, AU and UAT go after so few of the same players, it really shouldn't be a big deal.

Now beyond recruiting:

AU Probation:

33 Scholarships

2 years

2 bowls

1 year of TV

Year prior to sanctions: 5-5-1

'93-'96: 36-9-1 (.782)

2-2 v. UAT

UAT Probation:

25 Scholarships

5 years

2 Bowls

Year prior to sanctions: 7-5

'02-'05: 29-20 (.591)

0-4 v. Auburn

UAT only accounts for one game a season and one win in 11-12 games does not win a championship. UAT didn't beat anyone while "down" to help AU back into any honors. Last I checked, the sanctions for UAT did not include allowing AU to play with more than 11 players on either side of the ball. Since 1990, a period that saw UAT (2X) and AU "pinched" by the NCAA, the Iron Bowl Record is 8 and 8.

Hope that clarifies my stance a little better.