Thoughts from a student who took an

[jwise0022 1]

after reading the NYT's article i thought for a few minutes. putting the agenda of the author aside, i came to the conclusion that there is one teacher who is disgruntled because he thinks the independent study courses are too easy.

last spring, i took an independent study course, along with doing an internship with a big 4 firm, and taking 2 full term classes in a mini mester of 5 weeks. there were maybe 45 others taking the same class from the same teacher. we met the semester before to go over the requirements. we were to take 2 tests online, and write a 10 page paper. i took this course for 6 hours. i am not a football player. i don't play any sports. these independent study courses are available to all students. i received an A, as did almost every other person in the course.

my conclusion is this: assuming the players actually did the work, and met the requirements, i don't see the problem. from what i gathered from the NYT's article, there was no athlete favoritism from personal experience. are the courses too easy? maybe, but that is not for the NYT to decide. every student at auburn must take certain core courses, which cannot be avoided. most football players are in criminology or sociology or education. so what? if the NYT did any research at other universities that would have found this to be the case.

if this is all there is, then NOTHING will come of it. in fact, i would bet that the average football players grades were lower the other students. in may be some bad press, but this will blow over. rest easy auburn fans, this is just another example of BS journalism from the NYT.

[BamaGrad03 0]

after reading the NYT's article i thought for a few minutes.  putting the agenda of the author aside, i came to the conclusion that there is one teacher who is disgruntled because he thinks the independent study courses are too easy.

last spring, i took an independent study course, along with doing an internship with a big 4 firm, and taking 2 full term classes in a mini mester of 5 weeks.  there were maybe 45 others taking the same class from the same teacher.  we met the semester before to go over the requirements.  we were to take 2 tests online, and write a 10 page paper.  i took this course for 6 hours.  i am not a football player.  i don't play any sports.  these independent study courses are available to all students.  i received an A, as did almost every other person in the course. 

my conclusion is this:  assuming the players actually did the work, and met the requirements, i don't see the problem.  from what i gathered from the NYT's article, there was no athlete favoritism from personal experience.  are the courses too easy?  maybe, but that is not for the NYT to decide.  every student at auburn must take certain core courses, which cannot be avoided.  most football players are in criminology or sociology or education.  so what?  if the NYT did any research at other universities that would have found this to be the case. 

if this is all there is, then NOTHING will come of it.  in fact, i would bet that the average football players grades were lower the other students.  in may be some bad press, but this will blow over.  rest easy auburn fans, this is just another example of BS journalism from the NYT.

247500[/snapback]

I wouldnt call it BS journalism. I would call it trying to make a story out of something that probably doesnt have long legs. Everybody at UA knew the easy classes to take. And the easy majors. Same at every University. There are classes you can take (and most athletes do) to get by.

The only thing Id say may have legs is the notion that a guy getting academic praise during a game...and the dept chair had no clue who he was...might raise a red flag.

[WeagleDMS 0]

I agree with you for the most part. The only way Auburn gets in trouble on this one is if some connection between the professors involved and the athletic department is turned up. It is quite silly to believe that players at all major football schools do not have an advantage over the average student. But it is important to note that any student can sign up for these classes at Auburn so while the football players may be getting As, if the rest of the class was too then all this is is a faculty issue. This is probably going to sting for a little while though...

[jwise0022 1]

after reading the NYT's article i thought for a few minutes.  putting the agenda of the author aside, i came to the conclusion that there is one teacher who is disgruntled because he thinks the independent study courses are too easy.

last spring, i took an independent study course, along with doing an internship with a big 4 firm, and taking 2 full term classes in a mini mester of 5 weeks.  there were maybe 45 others taking the same class from the same teacher.  we met the semester before to go over the requirements.  we were to take 2 tests online, and write a 10 page paper.  i took this course for 6 hours.  i am not a football player.  i don't play any sports.  these independent study courses are available to all students.  i received an A, as did almost every other person in the course. 

my conclusion is this:  assuming the players actually did the work, and met the requirements, i don't see the problem.  from what i gathered from the NYT's article, there was no athlete favoritism from personal experience.  are the courses too easy?  maybe, but that is not for the NYT to decide.  every student at auburn must take certain core courses, which cannot be avoided.  most football players are in criminology or sociology or education.  so what?  if the NYT did any research at other universities that would have found this to be the case. 

if this is all there is, then NOTHING will come of it.  in fact, i would bet that the average football players grades were lower the other students.  in may be some bad press, but this will blow over.  rest easy auburn fans, this is just another example of BS journalism from the NYT.

247500[/snapback]

I wouldnt call it BS journalism. I would call it trying to make a story out of something that probably doesnt have long legs. Everybody at UA knew the easy classes to take. And the easy majors. Same at every University. There are classes you can take (and most athletes do) to get by.

The only thing Id say may have legs is the notion that a guy getting academic praise during a game...and the dept chair had no clue who he was...might raise a red flag.

247502[/snapback]

I am a master of accountancy student an would bet you $1,000 the department chair doesn't know who i am. why is this BS journalism? as you said, everybody at EVERY school knows the easy courses to take. so the NYT thinks that pointing out the easy courses to take at auburn is worthy of a full page article? ok

in edition, the article doesn't even try to claim that anything wrong is going on here. why try and tarnish a university's image if there is nothing underhanded going on? Oh yeah, the Times owns a bunch of newspapers in areas that would love to read full page articles tearing into auburn. that my friend, is BS journalism.

[MDM4AU 332]

I graduated from UAB in August of 2001. It was the last "Quarter" before switching to the Semester System. I had one class that I could not get until 2002 unless I got a professor to granted an independent study. I found one in January of 2001 to agree to do this for Summer Quarter.

Well, he left the country to fly home to France for a while. I didn't know this and attempted to contact him numerous times. TO make a long story short, he returned and refused to do it. The quarter was about 3-4 weeks in and I had a job offer pending my graduation in August. I found a professor that agreed to do the IS and I passed, graduated and got the job. I made a B in the course and the course was rather easy. Easier than expected. Read a text, wrote a paper and answered some questions. All while this Prof. was teaching at UAB and Samford for the Summer. (He did this year round.) I was not an athlete. I felt like the Prof. understood my situation and was willing to help. I have not gained UAB any accolades or awards. I went to school after work and went home. I didn't participate in any extra curricular activities. I graduated with a B. 3.0 on the nose I think.

I say all this to say that special IS happen all over the place, not just the "Big Schools" and not just for Athletes.

[autigeremt 6,642]

jwise0022:

Great point. Heck, I even work here myself (Auburn) and I know for a fact that this is nothing new at ANY major Div. I school. I came here from Clemson, and I know the practice there was nothing new.

I look at this article and say..............................GET REAL!!!!! The author needs to do research at other universities and let's see where it leads. Auburn is in the same boat with the rest of the nation on this.

[AFTiger 282]

I don't think this even begins to compare to the Tennessee and UGA academic scandals.

It sounds to me that the dean (under the influence of Wayne Flint and Paul Davis???) found a willing accomplice in the NY Times. I can tell you from a personal experience that the Times will skew a story to fit its agenda.

Bet the dean is on the faculty Senate which has been conducting this smear for years.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

The article discusses that other students took these classes also. It also appears to me that its a disagreement between two instructors on how difficult the independent study class should be.

I took a independent study in my major once, and it was not difficult at all. Read the assigned chapters, answer the questions at the end of the chapters, and then had a take home test. I got a A.

I saw a stat once that was based on nationwide research and it showed that sociology is the most popular major among college athletes in the United States. I took a sociology class as a elective for one of my degrees and the class was extremely easy. I made a B and did not study for the class at all.

Every university has its easy classes and it has its easy instructors. Go to ratemyprofessor.com and you can find the easy ones or ones that give less work for just about any class taught at any university.

One thing that stood out to me was the Gundlach guy saying he changed the reading class with the stipulation that the student did not have a history of taking easy classes. Thats kind of a subjective..... what does he consider easy? and because he says it is easy doesn't mean it was easy for the student as different people graps different things at different levels. For example it suprises me that people struggle with psychology classes, but there are those that just don't get it. Just like there are those that find math to be easy, but I struggle with it. I took statistics twice, first time dropped it and second time got a B cause I signed up for a different instructor.

The talk of one assignment classes is no big deal either. My Exercise Science Research class involved going to class, at which time you just used a computer to look up articles (which you could do at home), and in the end you turned in a 16- 20 page paper. I took another research class that was the same way, grade was attendance and the paper at the end. Either of those two classes could easily been done as a independent study with the entire grade based on the paper.

Based on my experiences and the comments by Gundlach, I have to agree with Jwise that this is pretty much a disgruntled instructor that probably doesn't like the fact that sociology is viewed as a weak and easy major and going after someone that he thinks contributes to that view.

[freebody 0]

More journalistic integrity and research accuracy fromm the NYTimes. The idiot says Carlos Rogers left Auburn early for the NFL - he played four years! Nice to include the "troubled past" bit at the end - really helps the smear agenda.

Also, is it really that difficult for one professor to have a bunch of people doing the same independent study simultaneously? (Keep in mind that Petee actually has a webpage, demonstrating virtual communication literacy, whereas the other fellow does not). Maybe I'm a bit myopic, but there is no way I could see such a class in engineering (although you could count a few hours of "Research and Thesis" towards your credits for Master's degree). But in some abstract classes, sure I could see that. Is that not what the core "Great Books" class essentially was? Read a half dozen books (back in the quarter days), and write a paper on them - the classes were just discussions of the books. If you didn't read the book and couldn't (or didn't) write the papers, then you don't pass. If you do, then you get a decent grade - reading the books was the whole point and purpose of the class. I could see that working in a more abstract course. (Even the criminology "statistics" course, which is more applied math and not the theoretical version they likely would have gotten over in Parker Hall).

So, was Petee a go-getter whose willingness to teach more made Gundlach look bad? Was Gundlach envious of Petee getting department chair over him, and decided to get him back by attacking what may have helped Petee get the job? How many academic or student privacy rules has Gundlach violated in putting this in the media?

So, do we get a credit for reading this? No, because it is CRAP!

[swensks 0]

More journalistic integrity and research accuracy fromm the NYTimes.  The idiot says Carlos Rogers left Auburn early for the NFL - he played four years!  Nice to include the "troubled past" bit at the end - really helps the smear agenda.

Also, is it really that difficult for one professor to have a bunch of people doing the same independent study simultaneously?  (Keep in mind that Petee actually has a webpage, demonstrating virtual communication literacy, whereas the other fellow does not).  Maybe I'm a bit myopic, but there is no way I could see such a class in engineering (although you could count a few hours of "Research and Thesis" towards your credits for Master's degree).  But in some abstract classes, sure I could see that.  Is that not what the core "Great Books" class essentially was?  Read a half dozen books (back in the quarter days), and write a paper on them - the classes were just discussions of the books.  If you didn't read the book and couldn't (or didn't) write the papers, then you don't pass.  If you do, then you get a decent grade - reading the books was the whole point and purpose of the class.  I could see that working in a more abstract course.  (Even the criminology "statistics" course, which is more applied math and not the theoretical version they likely would have gotten over in Parker Hall).

So, was Petee a go-getter whose willingness to teach more made Gundlach look bad?  Was Gundlach envious of Petee getting department chair over him, and decided to get him back by attacking what may have helped Petee get the job?  How many academic or student privacy rules has Gundlach violated in putting this in the media?

So, do we get a credit for reading this?  No, because it is CRAP!

247626[/snapback]

Good point, a$$neck. I've not heard that side of the arguement put in those terms.

But I still think there is some hocus pocus behind 152 independent studies...

[DKW 86 7,426]

I teach college. Using Web CT and other tools, You could do 100 a semester and not really have any problems in a core curriculum course.

We have software coming online next semester that will grade projects without having to look at the student's work much if at all.

If these classes were "The Great Books." You read 5 books and then do a survey online, hell what could be easier?

Sign me up to do it and teach it.

Computer CERTS are basically the same now BTW.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Computer CERTS are basically the same now BTW.

Thats why i never got mine. I had an interview once and they told me they were concerned that i didnt have a MCSD certification. I was like "gimme 5 days and the $100 registration fee, and Ill have all the answers memorized"

If you know your stuff, cram tests with certs attached to them dont matter.

[DKW 86 7,426]

Computer CERTS are basically the same now BTW.

Thats why i never got mine. I had an interview once and they told me they were concerned that i didnt have a MCSD certification. I was like "gimme 5 days and the $100 registration fee, and Ill have all the answers memorized"

If you know your stuff, cram tests with certs attached to them dont matter.

247641[/snapback]

BG, I put this on this thread just for YOU. Because almost no one on the Internet even knows what we are talking about.

[freebody 0]

Computer CERTS are basically the same now BTW.

Thats why i never got mine. I had an interview once and they told me they were concerned that i didnt have a MCSD certification. I was like "gimme 5 days and the $100 registration fee, and Ill have all the answers memorized"

If you know your stuff, cram tests with certs attached to them dont matter.

247641[/snapback]

BG, I put this on this thread just for YOU. Because almost no one on the Internet even knows what we are talking about.

247654[/snapback]

Sure we do. Microsoft Certified Software Developer? As opposed to Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, which is a complete bastardization of the title of engineer (and is illegal in Texas where it is on par with cattle rustling and punishable by castration).

[DKW 86 7,426]

Computer CERTS are basically the same now BTW.

Thats why i never got mine. I had an interview once and they told me they were concerned that i didnt have a MCSD certification. I was like "gimme 5 days and the $100 registration fee, and Ill have all the answers memorized"

If you know your stuff, cram tests with certs attached to them dont matter.

247641[/snapback]

BG, I put this on this thread just for YOU. Because almost no one on the Internet even knows what we are talking about.

247654[/snapback]

Sure we do. Microsoft Certified Software Developer? As opposed to Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, which is a complete bastardization of the title of engineer (and is illegal in Texas where it is on par with cattle rustling and punishable by castration).

247658[/snapback]

And that is THE appropriate analogy here. People do directed study courses all the time. Are they worthy? Apparently they are worthy of getting you a huge payraise for professional development.

Wonder if Thamel as taken any Internet courses?

[WaDE'05 8]

when all is said and done here with my time at Auburn (graduating in August...finally!) I will have taken three independent study courses and one online course done almost exclusively through web CT. I am acutally doing a directed study right now and thought it was a bit strange when the associate dean of my college (liberal arts) asked me about my independent study a couple of weeks ago. But, that all makes sense now. However for anyone who is wondering, I have recieved A's in all of my Readings/Directed studies courses... I feel like all these classes were useful and graded fairly, except for my Computer applications class that I took through webCT, it was pretty easy (just basic MS Office stuff), but everyone I have talked to says that the "brick and mortar" class is just as easy. Just show up do the work and you'll make an A, it's only a 2 hr course anyway. My other independent studies however included a 35 page paper on Qualitative Dialectics in Kierkegaardian Existentialism, a 42 page ambien substitute on The Phlilosophical, Theological, and Literary Impact of GK Chesterton, and I am currently working on a study on The Rise of the Emergent Church Movement in America. I have learded more form these directed studies than any other classes I have taken at Auburn. I really hope all this BS doesn't jeopardize anyone elses hopes of taking directed study courses in the future. For a lot of people it really is a great way to learn.

[DKW 86 7,426]

With Web CT etc. Those numbers are not that outlandish at all. BUT it must be a core curriculum course...

As far as I know, the 1-2 courses, the footballers took only average 5.4 hours anyway should just cover that.