Bama/Refs - STATS

[BamaGrad03 0]

I thought the Arenas INT overturn was the right one. I thought the 20 yard completion overturn against LSU was the right one. I thought the fumble ruled later to be incomplete could have gone either way. Honest, I said at full speed it was an incomplete pass. But I didn't see enough evidence in the video to be "indisputable". Just like I didn't see enough to overturn caddells catch.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

[runswithscissors 33]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

i honestly could not see it on the replay, but the still shot seems to prove it was the right call regardless.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

[Ravad 77]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

I have to disagree with you here. Sounds like trapping the ball between his hands & the ground.

I also saw it and pointed it out and paused it where it hit the ground without him having control.

Very close to what the picture has.

[BamaGrad03 0]

In motion, it looked like he caught it in the air and pinned it against his body to attain posession, and then when he hit the ground (while maintaining posession) the tip of the ball was on the ground because thats what happens when you posess a ball and land on the ground.

Now the picture shows otherwise, but I didn't see that in the replay.

[JohnDeere 0]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

I have to disagree with you here. Sounds like trapping the ball between his hands & the ground.

I also saw it and pointed it out and paused it where it hit the ground without him having control.

Very close to what the picture has.

Completed Pass

ARTICLE 6. Any forward pass is completed when caught by a player of the

passing team who is inbounds, and the ball continues in play unless completed

in the opponent’s end zone or the pass has been caught simultaneously by

opposing players. If a forward pass is caught simultaneously by opposing

players inbounds, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing team

(Rule 2-2-7) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-6-I-IX).

Incompleted Pass

ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete when the pass touches the

ground or is out of bounds by rule. It also is incomplete when a player leaves

his feet and receives the pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line,

unless his progress has been stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule

4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-7-I).

Situations:

XI. Airborne receiver A85 possesses the ball and in the process of going

to the ground, first contacts the ground with his left foot as he falls to

the ground inbounds. Immediately upon hitting the ground, the ball

comes loose and touches the ground. RULING: Incomplete pass.

An airborne receiver must maintain control of the ball if going to the

ground in the process of completing a catch.

XIV. Receiver A85 stretches out at the Team B two-yard line and possesses

the ball but is going to the ground on his own as he is attempting to

complete the catch. As A85 falls to the ground in the end zone, the

ball immediately comes loose and falls to the ground. RULING:

Incomplete pass. Any receiver going to the ground on his own in the

process of making a catch must maintain control of the ball when he

hits the ground.

[runswithscissors 33]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

I have to disagree with you here. Sounds like trapping the ball between his hands & the ground.

I also saw it and pointed it out and paused it where it hit the ground without him having control.

Very close to what the picture has.

Completed Pass

ARTICLE 6. Any forward pass is completed when caught by a player of the

passing team who is inbounds, and the ball continues in play unless completed

in the opponent’s end zone or the pass has been caught simultaneously by

opposing players. If a forward pass is caught simultaneously by opposing

players inbounds, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing team

(Rule 2-2-7) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-6-I-IX).

Incompleted Pass

ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete when the pass touches the

ground or is out of bounds by rule. It also is incomplete when a player leaves

his feet and receives the pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line,

unless his progress has been stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule

4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-7-I).

clueless

Main Entry: clue·less

Pronunciation: \ˈklü-ləs\

Function: adjective

Date: 1743

1 : having or providing no clue <a clueless case for the police to solve>

2 : completely or hopelessly bewildered, unaware, ignorant, or foolish <clueless about what they want>

3 : JohnDeere

nobody is arguing that the pass was in fact incomplete, because the picture proves it was. that was stated earlier. the point is some did not see that on the replay, myself included.

[JohnDeere 0]

it was a dumb dumb dumb play call by LSU. like i said before, did they REALLY believe they couldn't blow our undersized D-line off the line of scrimmage for a few inches? however, the refs did get the call right as the commentators explained about 3 times. before the ref turned his mic on and explained it one of the commentators was already saying the right guard jerked back and it was going to be on LSU. as for everyone here crying their little eyes out about the officiating, you should check out an LSU board.

But the call was for "Illegal Snap" wasn't it? Not that it matters in the end.

yes, illegal simulation of a snap i believe.

The phrase 'illegal simulation of a snap' is NOT found in the search of the 2007 NCAA Football Rules.

If it was an illegal snap as defined below, then why did the Referee anounce the guard's number as commenting the infraction when an illegal snap is a violation that only the snapper can commit?

Defensive Team Requirements—ARTICLE 5

Approved Ruling 7-1-5

I. Snapper A1 lifts the ball before backward passing it, B2 bats the

ball away, and B3 recovers the ball. RULING: Team A foul, illegal

snap. The ball is dead because it was not put in play by a legal

snap. Penalty—Five yards from the succeeding spot. Team A retains

possession.

At most it was an illegal shift maybe a false start.

I guess if ole Verne Lundquist explained it, he knows ALL about football.

[JohnDeere 0]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

I have to disagree with you here. Sounds like trapping the ball between his hands & the ground.

I also saw it and pointed it out and paused it where it hit the ground without him having control.

Very close to what the picture has.

Completed Pass

ARTICLE 6. Any forward pass is completed when caught by a player of the

passing team who is inbounds, and the ball continues in play unless completed

in the opponent’s end zone or the pass has been caught simultaneously by

opposing players. If a forward pass is caught simultaneously by opposing

players inbounds, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing team

(Rule 2-2-7) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-6-I-IX).

Incompleted Pass

ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete when the pass touches the

ground or is out of bounds by rule. It also is incomplete when a player leaves

his feet and receives the pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line,

unless his progress has been stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule

4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-7-I).

clueless

Main Entry: clue·less

Pronunciation: \ˈklü-ləs\

Function: adjective

Date: 1743

1 : having or providing no clue <a clueless case for the police to solve>

2 : completely or hopelessly bewildered, unaware, ignorant, or foolish <clueless about what they want>

3 : JohnDeere

nobody is arguing that the pass was in fact incomplete, because the picture proves it was. that was stated earlier. the point is some did not see that on the replay, myself included.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

[runswithscissors 33]

Like I said in the other thread, it was something you could see on the replay. I was pretty sure I saw it at live speed. Then they showed the replays in slo-mo and I pointed it out to everyone in the room. If you think the replay official couldn't see that, you're dreaming.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

I have to disagree with you here. Sounds like trapping the ball between his hands & the ground.

I also saw it and pointed it out and paused it where it hit the ground without him having control.

Very close to what the picture has.

Completed Pass

ARTICLE 6. Any forward pass is completed when caught by a player of the

passing team who is inbounds, and the ball continues in play unless completed

in the opponent’s end zone or the pass has been caught simultaneously by

opposing players. If a forward pass is caught simultaneously by opposing

players inbounds, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing team

(Rule 2-2-7) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-6-I-IX).

Incompleted Pass

ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete when the pass touches the

ground or is out of bounds by rule. It also is incomplete when a player leaves

his feet and receives the pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line,

unless his progress has been stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule

4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-7-I).

clueless

Main Entry: clue·less

Pronunciation: \ˈklü-ləs\

Function: adjective

Date: 1743

1 : having or providing no clue <a clueless case for the police to solve>

2 : completely or hopelessly bewildered, unaware, ignorant, or foolish <clueless about what they want>

3 : JohnDeere

nobody is arguing that the pass was in fact incomplete, because the picture proves it was. that was stated earlier. the point is some did not see that on the replay, myself included.

On the replay the only part you could see touching the ground was the front part of the ball, but the majority of the ball is pinned between his arms and his body. And that is a catch. It's not incomplete just because part of the ball touches the ground. If he had possesion, it's a catch.

look at the top of this page....

[JohnDeere 0]

look at the top of this page....

obstinate

Main Entry: ob·sti·nate

Pronunciation: \ˈäb-stə-nət\

Function: adjective

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French obstinat, Latin obstinatus, past participle of obstinare to be resolved, from ob- in the way + -stinare (akin to stare to stand)

Date: 14th century

1 : perversely adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course in spite of reason, arguments, or persuasion <obstinate resistance to change>

2 : not easily subdued, remedied, or removed <obstinate fever>

— ob·sti·nate·ly adverb

— ob·sti·nate·ness noun

3 : University of Alabama football supporters or fans <trolls lurking on aunation.net, runwithscissors, bamagrad03)

synonyms obstinate, dogged, stubborn, pertinacious, mulish mean fixed and unyielding in course or purpose. obstinate implies usually an unreasonable persistence <an obstinate proponent of conspiracy theories>. dogged suggests an admirable often tenacious and unwavering persistence <pursued the story with dogged perseverance>. stubborn implies sturdiness in resisting change which may or may not be admirable <a person too stubborn to admit error>. pertinacious suggests an annoying or irksome persistence <a pertinacious salesclerk refusing to take no for an answer>. mulish implies a thoroughly unreasonable obstinacy <a mulish determination to have his own way>.

[kwagoner 214]

Let's ease up and allow uat to celebrate their moral victory. Pay no attention to that Team in Starkvega$.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, we'll pay a little more attention to them than Aubarn did

You better hope that limb doesn't break away from the trunk b/c you counted the eggs in the mocking bird's nest before they hatched. Just saying...........

[runswithscissors 33]

3 : University of Alabama football supporters or fans <trolls lurking on aunation.net, runwithscissors, bamagrad03)

synonyms obstinate, dogged, stubborn, pertinacious, mulish mean fixed and unyielding in course or purpose. obstinate implies usually an unreasonable persistence <an obstinate proponent of conspiracy theories>. dogged suggests an admirable often tenacious and unwavering persistence <pursued the story with dogged perseverance>. stubborn implies sturdiness in resisting change which may or may not be admirable <a person too stubborn to admit error>. pertinacious suggests an annoying or irksome persistence <a pertinacious salesclerk refusing to take no for an answer>. mulish implies a thoroughly unreasonable obstinacy <a mulish determination to have his own way>.

trolls? let me know when you pass fifth grade and get over childish name calling. in any event, if you have such a problem with Bama fans posting on this board, then maybe you guys should quit posting Bama topics? i notice you complain about it nearly every post if we have a differing opinion than yours. there are 15 posts on the front page of the Rivals forum about Bama. 1 post was started by BG. the rest is all you guys. don't go crying to mama when you repeatedly hit someone, then you get popped back.

[JohnDeere 0]

trolls? let me know when you pass fifth grade and get over childish name calling.

as opposed to being called a 'retard' or 'loser' by your ilk?

Gotta go, my study hall is over at 3:15 and then school is out! I'll finish this tomorrow.

[runswithscissors 33]

I'll finish this tomorrow.

God help us.......

[WarTiger 3,901]

pass definition is really irrelevant here. what you need to look at is CATCH or player possession....

Catch, Interception, Recovery

ARTICLE 7. A catch is an act of firmly establishing player possession of a

live ball in flight.

a. A catch of an opponent’s fumble or pass is an interception.

b. Securing player possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground is

“recovering it.’’

c. To catch, intercept or recover a ball, a player who leaves his feet to

make a catch, interception or recovery must have the ball firmly in his

possession when he first returns to the ground inbounds with any part of

his body or is so held that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply

(A.R. 2-2-7-I-V and A.R. 7-3-6-IV).

1. If one foot first lands inbounds and the receiver has possession

and control of the ball, it is a catch or interception even though a

subsequent step or fall takes the receiver out of bounds.

2. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,

interception or recovery.

d. A catch by any kneeling or prone inbounds player is a completion or

interception (Rules 7-3-1 and 2 and 7-3-6 and 7).

e. When in question, the catch, recovery or interception is not completed.

2. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,

interception or recovery

[runswithscissors 33]

pass definition is really irrelevant here. what you need to look at is CATCH or player possession....

Catch, Interception, Recovery

ARTICLE 7. A catch is an act of firmly establishing player possession of a

live ball in flight.

a. A catch of an opponent’s fumble or pass is an interception.

b. Securing player possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground is

“recovering it.’’

c. To catch, intercept or recover a ball, a player who leaves his feet to

make a catch, interception or recovery must have the ball firmly in his

possession when he first returns to the ground inbounds with any part of

his body or is so held that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply

(A.R. 2-2-7-I-V and A.R. 7-3-6-IV).

1. If one foot first lands inbounds and the receiver has possession

and control of the ball, it is a catch or interception even though a

subsequent step or fall takes the receiver out of bounds.

2. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,

interception or recovery.

d. A catch by any kneeling or prone inbounds player is a completion or

interception (Rules 7-3-1 and 2 and 7-3-6 and 7).

e. When in question, the catch, recovery or interception is not completed.

2. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,

interception or recovery

correct. although i did not agree with the play being overturned when i watched the game, i agree with it after seeing that still picture.

[Argo 8]

PENALTIES G No Yds Avg/G

------------------------------------------

1. Vanderbilt.......... 9 44 344 38.2

2. Alabama............. 9 46 373 41.4

3. Ole Miss............ 10 63 455 45.5

4. South Carolina...... 10 59 456 45.6

5. Tennessee........... 9 52 429 47.7

6. Mississippi State... 9 52 449 49.9

7. Georgia............. 9 59 457 50.8

8. Auburn.............. 10 65 515 51.5

9. Kentucky............ 9 51 473 52.6

10.Arkansas............ 9 49 475 52.8

11.Florida............. 9 69 526 58.4

12.LSU................. 9 83 639 71.0

OPPONENT PENALTIES G No Yds Avg/G

------------------------------------------

1. Alabama............. 9 77 658 73.1

2. Mississippi State... 9 68 564 62.7

3. Auburn.............. 10 73 574 57.4

4. South Carolina...... 10 66 557 55.7

5. Ole Miss............ 10 68 554 55.4

6. Georgia............. 9 58 466 51.8

7. Tennessee........... 9 59 452 50.2

8. Kentucky............ 9 54 440 48.9

9. Arkansas............ 9 54 422 46.9

10.Florida............. 9 56 419 46.6

11.Vanderbilt.......... 9 56 413 45.9

12.LSU................. 9 37 272 30.2

Notice Bama has OVER 10 yards/game in penalties going against the opposition than the #2 team (MIssSt). Everyone else is bunched up within a few yards except LSU who is by far in last place.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bama has just 7 holding penalties called against them ALL YEAR:

2 were on kickoffs

1 was declined

1 was on a RB (Terry Grant)

ONLY 3 were on OLine (1 on M. Johnson, 2 on A. Smith when Bama was up 21-0 on Arky)

Interesting, that a penalty (holding) which is easily the most opinion based (in that you could probably call one on every other play) and can be masked by the refs is for some reason almost NEVER called against Bama. Bama's OL is the definition of mediocre - yet they never get called for holding? Andre Smith was holding all game long against LSU last night.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breakdown of Penalties going FOR and AGAINST each SEC team:

UA 46-373 77-658

Ark 49-475 54-422

AU 65-515 73-574

UF 69-526 56-419

UGA 59-457 58-466

UK 51-473 54-440

LSU 83-639 37-272

MSU 52-449 68-564

OM 63-455 68-554

SCar 59-456 66-557

Tenn 52-429 59-452

VU 44-344 56-413

Bama's opposition has been penalized nearly 300 yards more than Bama has. Notice, once again, how everyone else is within 100 yards (and usually less) in terms of differential? Everyone except for LSU, who for whatever reason, is ridiculously bad in this regard (they commit a ton of penalties and the opposition is rarely penalized against them).

In the two games that Ritter refereed (FSU, LSU), the opponent was flagged 23 times for 184 yards, while Bama was only flagged 6 times for 35 yards.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last night it was mentioned by the commentators that each team that Bama has played this year has had their MOST PENALIZED game come against Bama. A little convenient, dont you think?

Something else that is a little convenient is the fact that you forgot to mention 4 of the 8 teams we have played this season had a bye week before our game with them. Teams are subject to play a little sloppy after a bye week.

Miss St and Auburn ALSO have bye weeks before their game against Bama, so you can probably expect for that trend to continue.

[Rocket City Tiger 4]

Something else that is a little convenient is the fact that you forgot to mention 4 of the 8 teams we have played this season had a bye week before our game with them. Teams are subject to play a little sloppy after a bye week.

Miss St and Auburn ALSO have bye weeks before their game against Bama, so you can probably expect for that trend to continue.

Thats a little bit of a stretch given the penalty yardage differential. 300 yd difference? Besides, the trend continued in the LSU game and both UAT and LSU had off weeks.

I think the tell-tale sign would be the penalty difference in Home vs Away games. I'd like to see that.

[JohnDeere 0]

Something else that is a little convenient is the fact that you forgot to mention 4 of the 8 teams we have played this season had a bye week before our game with them. Teams are subject to play a little sloppy after a bye week.

Miss St and Auburn ALSO have bye weeks before their game against Bama, so you can probably expect for that trend to continue.

This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this board (and he probably got it off some other board).

Why weren't you bammers crying about the schedule in August? The bammers wait till they have a 5 loss season staring them in the face and they start crying about the off week that most of their opponents have.

I sure hope Parker-Wilson knows the offensive system next year and the defense picks up the defensive system next season, because it is just going to get worse.

Next year they will be crying about playing road games at Arkansas, UGA, UT, LSU, and the other theam out of the East in 2008.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Why weren't you bammers crying about the schedule in August? The bammers wait till they have a 5 loss season staring them in the face and they start crying about the off week that most of their opponents have.

5 loss season? We only have 3.

[runswithscissors 33]

Why weren't you bammers crying about the schedule in August?

uh, we DID notice that in August. i'm not so sold on having a bye week going into a big game gives one team an advantage over another though. it kills any momentum you have going into it IMHO. but, it does give some of your guys who are banged up some time to heal.

[runswithscissors 33]

Something else that is a little convenient is the fact that you forgot to mention 4 of the 8 teams we have played this season had a bye week before our game with them. Teams are subject to play a little sloppy after a bye week.

Miss St and Auburn ALSO have bye weeks before their game against Bama, so you can probably expect for that trend to continue.

Thats a little bit of a stretch given the penalty yardage differential. 300 yd difference? Besides, the trend continued in the LSU game and both UAT and LSU had off weeks.

I think the tell-tale sign would be the penalty difference in Home vs Away games. I'd like to see that.

there were alot of LSU folks saying that each team that has played them committed less penalties in that game than they had in any other game all season. whether that is true or not, i don't know.

[Argo 8]

Something else that is a little convenient is the fact that you forgot to mention 4 of the 8 teams we have played this season had a bye week before our game with them. Teams are subject to play a little sloppy after a bye week.

Miss St and Auburn ALSO have bye weeks before their game against Bama, so you can probably expect for that trend to continue.

This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this board (and he probably got it off some other board).

Why weren't you bammers crying about the schedule in August? The bammers wait till they have a 5 loss season staring them in the face and they start crying about the off week that most of their opponents have.

I sure hope Parker-Wilson knows the offensive system next year and the defense picks up the defensive system next season, because it is just going to get worse.

Next year they will be crying about playing road games at Arkansas, UGA, UT, LSU, and the other theam out of the East in 2008.

Reading comprehension isn't a strong point for you, is it? No one is whining about 6 teams having a bye week before playing us. As a matter of fact, I think it helps Bama. As I stated already in the post that you quoted, teams tend to play sloppy after a bye week.