ellitor 33,093 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Oh god, not the Kiehl Frazier supporters again. People on here have some weird fetish with the kid I don't understand your negative outlook on him. You are normally a rationale thinker. Kiehl has been in Gus's offense for 6 years and should make a nice comeback under Gus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjacob 44 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Oh god, not the Kiehl Frazier supporters again. People on here have some weird fetish with the kid Let's put it in perspective-would Johnny Football have won the Heisman this year playing for AU. No! The Tx AM offense matched his abilities and the OC called plays to his strengths and their OL played better than ours. I think we will see better OL play from here on out with the young talent we have maturing and you will see better QB play from all the QBs as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesChin 9 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I used to be very pro Frazier until a couple months before the season. Friend of mine on the team said that if Frazier started we are going to lose a lot of games and there was a reason he didn't throw his freshman year. I didn't believe it until I had dinner with a couple more guys I know and they were telling me that we stood a better chance winning if Jonathan Wallace was starting (week before the season). They said Frazier's field awareness of defensive coverage and schemes was bad and he doesn't have good ball placement either. I thought they were joking till JWall came over and they legit asked him "John tell me that Coach Loeffler has had the talk with you on what it takes to start because we can't have Kiehl at QB." That was when I started to get worried. The season proved them right Other side notes, people don't realize that Kiehl quit/threatened to quit the team over the summer and told the coaching staff this. Jonathan Wallace on the other hand is one of the most impressive kids on the team. His development as a freshman with an OLine who probably couldn't block their defenders on Facebook let alone in a game this year, WRs who continually dropped passes and erratic play calling was phenomenal. He has a blend of speed and vision while running/scrambling that will be desired from a Malzahn QB to run read options. He showed an advanced read progression for a freshman (at least compared to Clint and Kiehl) against our toughest opponents. His arm strength is a weakness but I know he has been working on that and considering the lack of throwing in his previous offense, I believe he isn't at his arm strength potential but working towards it. Add in another year of S&C under his belt to get him bigger he will be a very solid QB. Essentially I am bitter than we have this QB that performed admirably all year as a freshman thrown to the wolves after fall practice and people want to replace him with Frazier just because they remember how hyped he was in high school and he ran Malzahns system. Jonathan Wallace ran a similar enough offense in high school to help his transition guys and ran the wildcat at Auburn. He is in a similar position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjacob 44 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Sounds like a coach that didn't know what to do with him, because he didn't match his "proto-typical" QB preference and made excuses. Blame the QB all you want, but it didn't matter which QB played this year the O didn't go. I've seen this crap from bad coaches before. I knew a bball coach that swore up and down that he could do nothing to get a great athlete to do better in school. I mentored the kid for a couple of months and he ended up making all A&Bs that semester and didn't get into a lick of trouble-the kid just needed a little male guidance since he lacked a father (d/t premature death) Of course the coach was very prejudiced and blamed his inability to communicate effectively and show caring on everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesChin 9 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Sounds like a coach that didn't know what to do with him, because he didn't match his "proto-typical" QB preference and made excuses This comes from players on the team speaking to his ability under both Malzahn and Loeffler. I don't know any coaches, well not any that work with QBs. Ask yourself why Kiehl didn't even throw a pass during the bowl game against UVA even after our starter went down? He didn't even get considered to be the backup. This has nothing to do with prostyle or spread, it has to do with that fact that Frazier does not throw a good and accurate ball and he doesn't have an understanding of defensive coverages and schemes. Major reason why he couldn't call out blitzes at the line this year and adjust blocking calls. Sorry that I am supporting a kid whose skill sets are just as suited for Malzahn's offense as Frazier and he at least showed he can throw the ball in games as a freshman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMan70 3,277 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Essentially I am bitter than we have this QB that performed admirably all year as a freshman thrown to the wolves after fall practice and people want to replace him with Frazier just because they remember how hyped he was in high school and he ran Malzahns system. Jonathan Wallace ran a similar enough offense in high school to help his transition guys and ran the wildcat at Auburn. He is in a similar position Oh God, not the Kiehl Frazier Jonathan Wallace supporters again. People on here have some weird fetish with the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjacob 44 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Sounds like a coach that didn't know what to do with him, because he didn't match his "proto-typical" QB preference and made excuses This comes from players on the team speaking to his ability under both Malzahn and Loeffler. I don't know any coaches, well not any that work with QBs. Ask yourself why Kiehl didn't even throw a pass during the bowl game against UVA even after our starter went down? He didn't even get considered to be the backup. This has nothing to do with prostyle or spread, it has to do with that fact that Frazier does not throw a good and accurate ball and he doesn't have an understanding of defensive coverages and schemes. Major reason why he couldn't call out blitzes at the line this year and adjust blocking calls. Sorry that I am supporting a kid whose skill sets are just as suited for Malzahn's offense as Frazier and he at least showed he can throw the ball in games as a freshman. I got news for those players they need to look in the mirror and quit blaming other players, because it was the whole team that went 3-9. It didn't matter what QB AU had in there the team as a whole played like crap. Frazier may not be the future QB, but there is no reason to be as hostile toward him as you are, especially when the whole team blew chunks this past season. Well those same OL whiffed when Mosely and JW were in the game so I guess none of the QBs could correctly call out OL protection. (sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesChin 9 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 People on this forum drive me nuts sometimes. I never once said that Frazier was the reason we lost all of our games and neither did the players. I was speaking exclusively to his level of play as a quarterback and the comments people who are around the program have madee about him. Drove players nuts that a guy they saw as a player who would put them in a better position to win was riding the bench. Kiehl is a nice guy who I have met on occasion. Nothing but positive things to say about him as a person. This isn't a personal attack, this is commentary about him as a football player. If you don't like what I write don't read it and don't believe it. While I am a pretty big realist and at times pessimistic, the information is valued by some who otherwise wouldn't have access to it. I would love to be proven wrong and see KF become All-SEC but unless something clicks that hasn't been clicking it isnt going to happen. I'm done tlaking about anything but Lemond Johnson in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyTiger 2,894 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 His development as a freshman with an OLine who probably couldn't block their defenders on Facebook let alone in a game this year, WRs who continually dropped passes and erratic play calling was phenomenal. funny, but sadly true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesChin 9 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 It's sad because a lot of those OLine guys are my friends They are trying hard just young and need to develop in the weight room. Most OLines/DLines have a number of upperclassmen on them and what people don't realize is that every summer in the weight room makes a ridiculous difference and the fact that kids are naturally stronger at 22 than 18 to begin with. When you play with a young line, you not only have to overcome an experience gap but an athletic gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyTiger 2,894 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 It's sad because a lot of those OLine guys are my friends They are trying hard just young and need to develop in the weight room. Most OLines/DLines have a number of upperclassmen on them and what people don't realize is that every summer in the weight room makes a ridiculous difference and the fact that kids are naturally stronger at 22 than 18 to begin with. When you play with a young line, you not only have to overcome an experience gap but an athletic gap. Definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShugMan55 0 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Oh god, not the Kiehl Frazier supporters again. People on here have some weird fetish with the kid I don't understand your negative outlook on him. You are normally a rationale thinker. Kiehl has been in Gus's offense for 6 years and should make a nice comeback under Gus. Why is it if people say they don't think Kiehl is the answer they are branded negative. I have seen Frazier and Wallace and I think Wallace can be made into a quality starter quicker/better than Kiehl. It's nothing personal. Keihl had been in Gus's offense 4 years in 2011 and Gus put very little of the game in his hands. Having said this after 2003 I was 100 percent sure we should bench Jason Campbell and start Brandon Cox. If Kiehl turns it around I'll be the first to tip my hat. One thing is for certain. It is probably unfair of any of us to make an assessment on any player from 2012 due to the coaching vacuum in which they played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,093 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Oh god, not the Kiehl Frazier supporters again. People on here have some weird fetish with the kid I don't understand your negative outlook on him. You are normally a rationale thinker. Kiehl has been in Gus's offense for 6 years and should make a nice comeback under Gus. Why is it if people say they don't think Kiehl is the answer they are branded negative. I have seen Frazier and Wallace and I think Wallace can be made into a quality starter quicker/better than Kiehl. It's nothing personal. Keihl had been in Gus's offense 4 years in 2011 and Gus put very little of the game in his hands. Having said this after 2003 I was 100 percent sure we should bench Jason Campbell and start Brandon Cox. If Kiehl turns it around I'll be the first to tip my hat. One thing is for certain. It is probably unfair of any of us to make an assessment on any player from 2012 due to the coaching vacuum in which they played. Having a negative opinion on a player's outlook is different than being branded as negative. PJM gave his reasons in a later post. While I respect what he and the players think I personally see a Jason Campbell part 2 situation, which I saw up close and personal to an extent. I would see him in Foy every day late in his junior season and you could tell he had no confidence in himself at the time. One of his friends even came to me asking if I knew who Jason was and I said yes, he is our quarterback. It was like Jason or his friends needed to hear people know who he was. ..Then we got Borges as OC and it was like a switch turned on for Jason. He had an awesome senior year. I could see Malzahn coming back having the same affect on kiehl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShugMan55 0 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Oh god, not the Kiehl Frazier supporters again. People on here have some weird fetish with the kid I don't understand your negative outlook on him. You are normally a rationale thinker. Kiehl has been in Gus's offense for 6 years and should make a nice comeback under Gus. Why is it if people say they don't think Kiehl is the answer they are branded negative. I have seen Frazier and Wallace and I think Wallace can be made into a quality starter quicker/better than Kiehl. It's nothing personal. Keihl had been in Gus's offense 4 years in 2011 and Gus put very little of the game in his hands. Having said this after 2003 I was 100 percent sure we should bench Jason Campbell and start Brandon Cox. If Kiehl turns it around I'll be the first to tip my hat. One thing is for certain. It is probably unfair of any of us to make an assessment on any player from 2012 due to the coaching vacuum in which they played. Having a negative opinion on a player's outlook is different than being branded as negative. PJM gave his reasons in a later post. While I respect what he and the players think I personally see a Jason Campbell part 2 situation, which I saw up close and personal to an extent. I would see him in Foy every day late in his junior season and you could tell he had no confidence in himself at the time. One of his friends even came to me asking if I knew who Jason was and I said yes, he is our quarterback. It was like Jason or his friends needed to hear people know who he was. ..Then we got Borges as OC and it was like a switch turned on for Jason. He had an awesome senior year. I could see Malzahn coming back having the same affect on kiehl. I hope you are right and I am rooting for Kiehl and every other player to peak at Auburn. Not for fans, but for them. I do think if Kiehl can solve the "confidence/apprehension/nervousness/too worried about making mistake" problem he can be a hell of a QB. I have not coached Kiehl and I am not trying to presume what is holding him back. It just looks like to me it is some combination of the above. It reminds me of when Kevin Costner got the shanks in Tin Cup and Cheech figured out that the problem was "his brain was getting in the way." I also felt that in 2012 more Borges like passes early in the year would have helped his cause. Wasn't there a long, sure TD pass that was dropped against Clemson? I remember thinking at the time that more than the six points we missed an opportunity for some confidence building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesChin 9 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I hope your right Ellitor. He just has more to fix than the mental side of things such as ball placement and strength on throws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,093 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I hope your right Ellitor. He just has more to fix than the mental side of things such as ball placement and strength on throws I really think the lack of strength on throws comes from lollipopping it due to no confidence. When he believes in a play his throws are much crisper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmoney 0 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I hope your right Ellitor. He just has more to fix than the mental side of things such as ball placement and strength on throws I really think the lack of strength on throws comes from lollipopping it due to no confidence. When he believes in a play his throws are much crisper. I think a lot of the weak throws comes from his reads. When you're a shotgun QB, you make a pre-snap read and then are able to watch it unfold right in front of you. Your eyes should be straight ahead. When you are a 3 step drop QB, you turn your back to the line of scrimmage...on play action, anyway. For the first time in his life, Frazier had to turn his back to the line. When he turned around, he was like: "Whoa, that is not what I just saw 2 seconds ago." I think he spent a lot of time second guessing himself mid-throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesChin 9 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I meant not in terms of pure arm strength but rather not having good judgement on how much touch to put on passes and not being particularly good at putting the ball exactly where he wants to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueridge 29 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 This thread has outlived its usefulness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGGR82 4 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 This thread has outlived its usefulness. For reals....lock it down and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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