Do you go to church?

[homersapien 11,367]

You'd think that if God "ordained a Trump victory" he/it would have at least arranged to win the popular vote.

What nonsense.

[AU9377 4,927]

This is my personal example of how some churches have changed.

When I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, we attended church twice on Sundays and Wednesday night.  I am from a small town in Georgia.  We were Southern Baptists.  We never had a pastor that preached damnation and fear from the pulpit.  We never had a pastor that would dive into politics.  In fact, they each reminded everyone that the church's place was not in politics.  The community experience and the church family were an incredibly positive part of my maturation.  We went on great church trips, youth trips etc.  As a teenager, we got into all sorts of things on those trips, from sexual hookups to getting high cause some kid brought a couple rolled up in his bag.  That was all out of the sight of the chaperones ofcourse.  All that is also normal behavior for a 15 - 16 year old kid.  Everything wasn't perfect, but we were taught to love each other, regardless of our differences, whatever they may be.  We were taught service to others and putting others above yourself.

Somehow and some way, that environment has now given way to an ultra hell and brimstone environment that is extremely political and the church is now a shell of what it was 20 years ago.  My parents no longer attend and many others followed.  A healthy church can teach a young person so much that parenting alone cannot. Socialization & community involvement are larger examples, but small things like etiquette and how to sit respectfully listening to a speaker for an hour are things that get overlooked.  Regardless if a family is wealthy or poor, an environment exists wherein people can network & better themselves.  All of those things have little to do with denomination and specific rituals and beliefs, but they make the communities and country we live in a better place.

Specifics of one's individual beliefs aside, there is a common unquestioned commandment that is at the core of Christianity, as well as other Abrahamic based religions.  That is to, without qualification, care for your fellow man as you would yourself.  When we don't know each other, it is difficult to care for one another.

[McLoofus 35,182]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:56 AM, TitanTiger said:

And that's because Christ is a stumbling block.  He's what the scriptures call a "rock of offense."  Sin corrupts the human heart to the point that people don't want to hear the truth no matter how palatable and 'relevant' you try to make it.  The entire notion that God is holy and we are sinful and in need of repentance and redemption offends their sensibilities.  

I am someone who falls under this category. The church can't really do anything to make me believe in something I don't believe in.

But Christians misconstruing faith for knowledge- and in attempt to condescend no less- certainly doesn't help.

 

[Randman5000 4,226]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

You'd think that if God "ordained a Trump victory" he/it would have at least arranged to win the popular vote.

What nonsense.

Someone didn't get the message...

 

[DKW 86 7,419]

I am staying out of all this. Just saving time. 

I would "ditto" about 90+% of Titan's well measured words. I am primarily a Contemporary Non-denom myself. COTH & Saddleback are my models. I say that AND then have to acknowledge that every single non-denom church/pastor i know is 95% SBC in theology whether they admit it or not. I attend a church that is nominally attached to the SBC, even tho I abhor most of what the SBC Staff support.

I like the Theology, dislike the Leadership, if you get my nuance. If you only hate Gays just because they "Sin Different" than you, i got ZERO Use and ZERO Time for you. If your Christianity says turn your back on your neighbors, Brothers, and Sisters, for not living up to your "Perception of Perfection," and "Rugged Individualism Dog-Whistles" well...FU and your Theology. (Lord forgive my anger here.)

I too find myself drawn back, if only very temporarily, to Liturgical Christian Worship. But, I soon remember why I left. As Titan pointed out, there is a stability in LCW that I am drawn to, and then I remember why most LCW ends up sounding like a Funeral Service in short order.

One of the better threads in a long time. Kudos to the posters.

[AUDub 11,147]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:29 PM, AUFAN78 said:

I disagree. The OP is falling church attendance. Many examples/thoughts given as to why. One example/argument given was Trump. I primarily explored that example/argument, I didn't make it. IMO the example given was relevant as was the exploration. 

Trump is more or less a symptom and an accelerant. The root causes predate him by a lot.

He has been the final nail in the coffin for a lot of people though. 

[AUDub 11,147]

Oddly enough, Biden is one of the most visibly religuously observant presidents we've had since Carter. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,102]

48 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Oddly enough, Biden is one of the most visibly religuously observant presidents we've had since Carter. 

 

I don't know....obviously you haven't seen this hard hitting journalism by Fox News. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/joe-biden-easter-remarks-white-house-jesus-mentions

/s

 

[homersapien 11,367]

9 hours ago, Randman5000 said:

Someone didn't get the message...

 

I'd love to know what Trump is thinking at that time.

[CoffeeTiger 5,102]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I'd love to know what Trump is thinking at that time.

"I wonder if anyone would notice if i just moved my hand over and grabbed her by th..."

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I'd love to know what Trump is thinking at that time.

He’s thinking: “Who invited Jimbo Fisher?”😂😂

(Far right end front row.......)

[AUFAN78 3,894]

13 hours ago, AUDub said:

Trump is more or less a symptom and an accelerant. The root causes predate him by a lot.

He has been the final nail in the coffin for a lot of people though. 

That one would use Trump as a divine example is bizarre and misguided IMO. That one appreciates his support of religious liberty and prolife issues understandable. 

[AUDub 11,147]

4 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

That one would use Trump as a divine example is bizarre and misguided IMO. That one appreciates his support of religious liberty and prolife issues understandable. 

"Character matters"

That that principle has been so easily cast aside inspires a lot of cynicism of Christendom.

There are plenty of decent people that could deliver the same thing, but the Rs chose a wannabe strongman capitalizing on the politics of grievance. Ponder that carefully. 

[AUFAN78 3,894]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

"Character matters"

That that principle has been so easily cast aside inspires a lot of cynicism of Christendom.

There are plenty of decent people that could deliver the same thing, but the Rs chose a wannabe strongman capitalizing on the politics of grievance. Ponder that carefully. 

Well it should, we agree. Choice also matters and must be considered in this case. Hillary? Biden?

[AURex 1,994]

Trump is the most ANTI-religious president ever. He never went to church because he was always out GOLFING!

But beyond that ---- why is going to church a POLITICAL activity? Same as, why is being a Veteran a POLITICAL issue?

Political candidates should be selected on issues like social and moral and legal issues. rump is in bottom of the cesspool in that regard.

[AUDub 11,147]

24 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Well it should, we agree. Choice also matters and must be considered in this case. Hillary? Biden?

Choice and embrace are not the same thing. I could understand reluctant support. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Choice and embrace are not the same thing. I could understand reluctant support. 

Not to mention, Trump wasn't dropped out of the sky into the general election.  They had several better choices in the primaries.  They embraced a man who was the "R at the end of his name" version of so many of the very things they ripped Bill Clinton for being long before their choice was him or Hillary.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

10 minutes ago, AURex said:

Trump is the most ANTI- non-religious president ever. He never went to church because he was always out GOLFING!

But beyond that ---- why is going to church a POLITICAL activity? Same as, why is being a Veteran a POLITICAL issue?

Political candidates should be selected on issues like social and moral and legal issues. rump is in bottom of the cesspool in that regard.

I think non was what you were looking for. He was certainly pro-religion in at least a couple regards.

I recall the Trump voting grandma after Trumps election stating: "I wasn't electing our pastor." I think at least grandma sees the distinction. Actually many do/did. And as I mentioned to Dub, consider the choice. It mattered. 

Uh, I'm no longer certain, a lot to unpack there and I think you left out quite a bit. But I am rather saddened we cannot do better in candidates we bring forward. 

 

[AUFAN78 3,894]

12 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Choice and embrace are not the same thing. I could understand reluctant support. 

I hear you, but like Trump or Joe, I did not vote for nor support either for nomination. I do embrace/support each. I want the best for our country regardless of said choice.

[AUDub 11,147]

8 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I hear you, but like Trump or Joe, I did not vote for nor support either for nomination. I do embrace/support each. I want the best for our country regardless of said choice.

It isn't all about you, man. 

[AUFAN78 3,894]

22 minutes ago, AUDub said:

It isn't all about you, man. 

Ha! So true. The intent was a reflection of past commentary. Not just mine. 

[bigbird 60,512]

@AURex, I agree. It was dumb to chime in when you had absolutely nothing to add but your complaints about the subject.  To borrow a phrase used here quite often...do better.

[cole256 17,051]

I spent a bunch of my years going to a Christian private school, I find it interesting how easy they turned their heads about some moral issues to line up and make it ok to support Trump with fervor and passion. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

I spent a bunch of my years going to a Christian private school, I find it interesting how easy they turned their heads about some moral issues to line up and make it ok to support Trump with fervor and passion. 

Religion was invented to give us answers to questions that we can't answer legitimately, or to give us answers we like better than the truth. trump is the exact same thing.

[abw0004 10,110]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Religion was invented to give us answers to questions that we can't answer legitimately, or to give us answers we like better than the truth.

Respectfully, I would have to disagree.  I know you don't believe in God, which isn't my place to judge, but to say Christianity isn't the truth is extreme.  In fact, Christianity doesn't answer everything.  There many questions I will never have answered until it is my day to meet Him again.  

Now, like all religions, there are some people who take things to the extremes.  The Bible does not try to answer every question, or deviate from the truth.  It is how one interprets It.  That may better fall in line with what you are referring to, and if you are then I would actually agree with you then.