Mims44 1,879 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I often wonder how many of the gray areas have been covered concerning this. picking up trash/other refuse from public areas for instance... if a flag is thrown on public ground does it constitute trash and can therefore be picked up and removed? This would have to take into account that someone was not standing on it, or using it.. merely thrown to the ground to show their disrespect for the United States. Could I in theory litter if I say it's part of a protest? Some people in here seem pretty well versed in weird legal quirks so maybe someone knows. Actually, there's probably something in criminal law about when something discarded ceases to become property. It's the same thing as if you see a bicycle on the side of the road, you are not entitled to go remove it just because it is abandoned. In this case, the flag was being used - albeit in a manner many disapprove of (which, of course, is why it makes such an effective form of protest). As for littering as protest, it would be close. Remember, the government can limit what you say and not run afoul of the 1st amendment free speech/assembly by something called "time place manner" restrictions. IIRC, the test in this case is the "rational basis" test . Can the government claim to have a rational and significant state interest in the restriction of the free speech (in your case, littering)? Most courts would undoubtedly side with the state, since duty and rights under the police powers of the states surely include being able to maintain cleanliness. For instance, in US v. O'Brien, SCOTUS ruled that burning a draft card in protest of the Vietnam War was NOT protected, because the state had a strong and legitimate interest in registering males under Selective Service obligations. That said, it would be an interesting case, because expressive conduct is considered to be de facto or assumed protected under the first amendment unless otherwise limited, and an argument could be made that littering does not represent irreparable or imminent harm. Awesome reply and exactly what I was looking for, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mims44 1,879 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm more bothered by the attempt to interfere with someone's right to free speech, but what do I know? Interesting, that was my reaction. But didn't you see it as completely taken care of? There's over 300 million people here, some are going to let emotions get in the way of others rights... it's gonna happen. But in this instance what would worry you? It seems everything was handled perfectly. The only weird thing to me is the protestors not wanting to comment on what they were protesting when asked by the media, who does that? lol Protest, then when someone asks what you are protesting give a "nah, don't worry about it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFAN78 3,911 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Freedom of expression goes both ways and the playboy model vet doesn't understand that. http://www.gafollowe...c8200xq280e.jpg You should take that flag from her for, uh, desecrating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag were contained in Title 18 of the United States Code prior to 1989. The Supreme Court decision in Texas v. Johnson; June 21, 1989, held the statute unconstitutional. This statute was amended when the Flag Protection Act of 1989 (Oct. 28, 1989) imposed a fine and/or up to I year in prison for knowingly mutilating, defacing, physically defiling, maintaining on the floor or trampling upon any flag of the United States. The Flag Protection Act of 1989 was struck down by the Supreme Court decision, United States vs. Eichman, decided on June 11, 1990.http://www.usflag.org/us.code36.html §176. Respect for flag No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor. (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. ( The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise. © The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free. (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general. (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling. (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks for that info bottomfeeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,158 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yes, thanks for bringing up the United States v. Eichman case, which reaffirmed the aforementioned Texas v. Johnson decision, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mims44 1,879 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I can't find the story, anyone remember what Olympics it was where the person who was going to carry the American flag threatened that he would dip it.... and some popular figure proclaimed that if he saw the flag start to dip he would execute him then and there. Quick google search didn't turn up anything:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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