2017 4* DB Tray Bishop (UGA 1/1/17)

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

15 minutes ago, Harp_AU2013 said:

The world is coming to an end... Or did you forget that Nick Marshall and Cam Newton both came from JuCo..

So you are saying that Gus is going to be able to just go JUCO full time on QB's and sustain success? If so I think Gus should at least recruit JUCO QB's who start for said JUCO team.  

[ellitor 33,101]

4 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

You sure about his? 

That's what Keith said a couple weeks ago. Not sure if that's changed or not.

[ellitor 33,101]

32 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

So you are saying that Gus is going to be able to just go JUCO full time on QB's and sustain success? If so I think Gus should at least recruit JUCO QB's who start for said JUCO team.  

And at least be moderately accurate.

[Harp_AU2013 221]

1 hour ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

So you are saying that Gus is going to be able to just go JUCO full time on QB's and sustain success? If so I think Gus should at least recruit JUCO QB's who start for said JUCO team.  

I am not going to dispute that. I agree with that statement 100%. I didn't think JF3 was the answer when we were recruiting him either. I just don't think pulling from JUCO is an issue either. The kids need time to come into their own and that doesn't always happen as a freshman at a big time school. I would like to see Gus develop Woody into a Heisman candidate but no one knows how that is going to turn out. Joey might fall short of expectations as well. Who knows that why I don't have a problem with getting someone for a few years after they have had time to grow after high school

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

The Cam and Nick argument is missing the point.  Yes, Cam and Nick improved while there were at Auburn as QBs, anybody with that much talent and drive is bound to improve in spite of who their coach is.

Where we should look, is the development of a viable backup QB to be able to sustain the program in years to come.  If you look at what Gus has done at Auburn, you will see that Chris Todd was our starting QB in 2009 and Barret Trotter as the back up (Kodi was moved to WR in 2009).

In 2010 (the year of CAM) Barret Trotter was the backup and played in 6 games, had 9 pass attempts with 6 completions for 64 yards.

In 2011 (the year after Cam) There were 3 QBs that started games that year.  Frazier played in 13 games, Mosley in 10 games and Trotter in 9 games, so they were all backups and none progressed.  An interesting note: Barrett Trotter gave up football after the bowl game where he brought us back after Mosley got hurt in the Chich Fil A bowl.

Gus did not leave Auburn with a SEC caliber QB on the property for 2012.  

Gus returns in 2013 and he recognized that he needed a QB and got Nick Marshall.  JJ was the back up and played in 5 games and his stats were very good. Most fans were excited about the future.

In 2014, Gus returns a starting QB for the first time in his college coaching career, hmmmm.  JJ again played well in 7 games and solidified most people's perception the future was bright.

In 2015, we saw the development of JJ and were astonished and not in a good way.  His backup was Sean White and he made his debut in the MSU game.  When he threw the interception on the first drive, it seemed he was handcuffed from then on.

We all know what has happened this year with JFIII.  How do you develop a backup QB all season and when your starter goes down, the coach doesn't trust him to do the job?

Every year Gus has been here, he has not developed any backup QB to be a viable SEC caliber QB.  The proof is in the product on the field, he just got lucky with Cam (who didn't miss a game) and Nick (who missed very little playing time).

 

[AU64 10,122]

Cam and Nick had stellar JUCO seasons.....JF3 rarely played and the latest "savior" did not play QB at WIsky and was hurt after one JUCO game....so he is no better off than some guy straight out of HS IMO.....and less capable that WB who has spent a season at AU on scout team or whatever looking at AU type offense and defense.

OR ......get the DT QB who leads his team to the JUCO championship and I'm good to go. 

[ellitor 33,101]

27 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Cam and Nick had stellar JUCO seasons.....JF3 rarely played and the latest "savior" did not play QB at WIsky and was hurt after one JUCO game....so he is no better off than some guy straight out of HS IMO.....and less capable that WB who has spent a season at AU on scout team or whatever looking at AU type offense and defense.

OR ......get the DT QB who leads his team to the JUCO championship and I'm good to go. 

I would call Nick's juco year good but not stellar. He had more INTs than TDs.

[AU64 10,122]

18 minutes ago, ellitor said:

I would call Nick's juco year good but not stellar. He had more INTs than TDs.

He was called an "elite" recruit by AUC when we brought him here....had nearly 4000 yards total offense and scored 37 TDs....FAR better than anything we've been looking at lately.    As noted above by someone, it would be nice to have someone who actually started for his JUCO and had some stats worth talking about .

[ellitor 33,101]

12 minutes ago, AU64 said:

He was called an "elite" recruit by AUC when we brought him here....had nearly 4000 yards total offense and scored 37 TDs....FAR better than anything we've been looking at lately.    As noted above by someone, it would be nice to have someone who actually started for his JUCO and had some stats worth talking about .

Being an elite recruit is not the same thing as having an elite juice season which was the original phrase you used. Of his 37 TDs 18 were pass TDs and he had 20 INTs. I don't care how great the rest of offensive stats are no QB in my eyes with 20 INTs in 11 games had an elite season overall. I under sold him by saying good. It's actually very good but not elite with nearly 2 INTs a game.

[AU64 10,122]

39 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Being an elite recruit is not the same thing as having an elite juice season which was the original phrase you used. Of his 37 TDs 18 were pass TDs and he had 20 INTs. I don't care how great the rest of offensive stats are no QB in my eyes with 20 INTs in 11 games had an elite season overall. I under sold him by saying good. It's actually very good but not elite with nearly 2 INTs a game.

OK so tell me which JUCOs we have been looking at lately that compare...INT's or not.....and people were all excited about JF3 and expected him to start based on what?  his 4.4 speed or something ....what a crock.   Based on the stats of our most recent JUCO QB signee candidate compared to Nick M, he must be PP and the one mentioned earlier on this forum had one game....as a QB at Wisky and JUCO and was injured.    

I'm putting this on Gus, not you....but with the QB situation being what it is about everywhere,   we should have someone recruiting year round in the JUCO circuit to identify potential recruits.   Bring Gillens in or whatever but please don't try to pass him off as a potential QB. 

[ellitor 33,101]

9 minutes ago, AU64 said:

OK so tell me which JUCOs we have been looking at lately that compare...INT's or not.....and people were all excited about JF3 and expected him to start based on what?  his 4.4 speed or something ....what a crock.   Based on the stats of our most recent JUCO QB signee candidate compared to Nick M, he must be PP and the one mentioned earlier on this forum had one game....as a QB at Wisky and JUCO and was injured.    

I'm putting this on Gus, not you....but with the QB situation being what it is about everywhere,   we should have someone recruiting year round in the JUCO circuit to identify potential recruits.   Bring Gillens in or whatever but please don't try to pass him off as a potential QB. 

Did not say nor imply any current  jucos compare. I never expected JF3 to be a starter like Gus, Rhett, & some fans hoped. I don't know how Gillins will turn out but FWIW he was much more accomplished out of high school than JF3 as a QB.

[AU64 10,122]

16 hours ago, ellitor said:

Did not say nor imply any current  jucos compare. I never expected JF3 to be a starter like Gus, Rhett, & some fans hoped. I don't know how Gillins will turn out but FWIW he was much more accomplished out of high school than JF3 as a QB.

Guess that does not surprise me....but I'm looking at what he's been through since then.   And I'm thinking that WB has had the benefit of much more useful coaching and exposure to the QB position and SEC quality football.    To hit that dead horse one more time, I'm really hoping that we bring in a JUCO with some accomplishments at the QB position .....as a back up for someone .....or as a potential starter if he is good enough. 

[ellitor 33,101]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

Guess that does not surprise me....but I'm looking at what he's been through since then.   And I'm thinking that WB has had the benefit of much more useful coaching and exposure to the QB position and SEC quality football.    To hit that dead horse one more time, I'm really hoping that we bring in a JUCO with some accomplishments at the QB position .....as a back up for someone .....or as a potential starter if he is good enough. 

I'm not so sure of that. He's been on the scout team nearly exclusively all season. they usually don't get much attention from coaches.

[Gowebb11 9,328]

This thread ignores the root issue in my opinion. If UGA can get Eason, Bama can land Hurts, Ole Miss can land Patterson, and Baylor can get Stidham, all out of high school, why are we scrounging the JUCO ranks for a QB we "hope" can work out? We've played in two Nattys in the last 6 years and had a recent Heisman winning/All Pro NFL qb recently. In our offense, we should have dual threat QBs  clamoring to get to us. Instead we're taking non starters or post ACLtear QBs out of JUCO. We haven't had back to back 10 win seasons since the 80s. Our recent qb recruiting is the type of thing preventing us from being a perennial championship contender. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

8 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

This thread ignores the root issue in my opinion. If UGA can get Eason, Bama can land Hurts, Ole Miss can land Patterson, and Baylor can get Stidham, all out of high school, why are we scrounging the JUCO ranks for a QB we "hope" can work out? We've played in two Nattys in the last 6 years and had a recent Heisman winning/All Pro NFL qb recently. In our offense, we should have dual threat QBs  clamoring to get to us. Instead we're taking non starters or post ACLtear QBs out of JUCO. We haven't had back to back 10 win seasons since the 80s. Our recent qb recruiting is the type of thing preventing us from being a perennial championship contender. 

I had a Bammer friend say that Gus chose Barrett which caused Hurts to pick Bammer. Needs to be verified though. If you check the dates, you will see that Hurts committed two days after Barrett did which almost verifies it.

[lala 327]

9 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

This thread ignores the root issue in my opinion. If UGA can get Eason, Bama can land Hurts, Ole Miss can land Patterson, and Baylor can get Stidham, all out of high school, why are we scrounging the JUCO ranks for a QB we "hope" can work out? We've played in two Nattys in the last 6 years and had a recent Heisman winning/All Pro NFL qb recently. In our offense, we should have dual threat QBs  clamoring to get to us. Instead we're taking non starters or post ACLtear QBs out of JUCO. We haven't had back to back 10 win seasons since the 80s. Our recent qb recruiting is the type of thing preventing us from being a perennial championship contender. 

We need to become more of a passing threat if we want a real star QB.  In my opinion a guy like Cam would not come now as we run the ball over 75% of the time and that is not a recipe for making it in the league, which is all their goal.   I like the SW/pettway combo where we are a threat to do both (pass and run) yet that is not Gus and Rhett's preference IMO.  

[ellitor 33,101]

18 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

I had a Bammer friend say that Gus chose Barrett which caused Hurts to pick Bammer. Needs to be verified though. If you check the dates, you will see that Hurts committed two days after Barrett did which almost verifies it.

I don't recall us recruiting Hurts so I don't see the correlation.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Just now, ellitor said:

I don't recall us recruiting Hurts so I don't see the correlation.

Maybe not. Just going by what I was told.

[aujeff11 6,243]

10 minutes ago, lala said:

We need to become more of a passing threat if we want a real star QB.  In my opinion a guy like Cam would not come now as we run the ball over 75% of the time and that is not a recipe for making it in the league, which is all their goal.   I like the SW/pettway combo where we are a threat to do both (pass and run) yet that is not Gus and Rhett's preference IMO.  

Any star DT QB should love our offense. 

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

39 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Any star DT QB should love our offense. 

So, why cant we land one?

[Timeslider 6 269]

Isn't Barrett considered a DT QB ?

Don't think the problem is landing them, the problem is developing them.

[aujeff11 6,243]

47 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

So, why cant we land one?

1.Well we still have Gatewood. 

2.And I'm not speaking for all Auburn fans( that's obvious as Bird pointed out I'm the black sheep of the group and and I will cherish that role), but I do believe our offense carries a stigma of being a dumbed down, anti-NFL offense. And recruits are listening to it and going elsewhere. Call it the John Gruden effect.

3.Texas A&M is kicking our ass in QB recruiting. We for sure wanted Murray, Mond and now Stidham and looks like they will get all three. 

4. Our coaches are either going after the wrong QB's or our coaches are not realistically able to evaluate talent anymore. We went after Torrance Gibson early and late in one recruiting clas, and let Lamar Jackson walk away without a commitable offer. And we also went after JF3, not Jerod Evans. I know for a fact that Torrance Gibson is now a WR at Ohio State and JF3 should definitely be a WR. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

21 hours ago, AU64 said:

Cam and Nick had stellar JUCO seasons.....JF3 rarely played and the latest "savior" did not play QB at WIsky and was hurt after one JUCO game....so he is no better off than some guy straight out of HS IMO.....and less capable that WB who has spent a season at AU on scout team or whatever looking at AU type offense and defense.

OR ......get the DT QB who leads his team to the JUCO championship and I'm good to go. 

Didn't Jason Smith have very good stats at Juco? He was incredible in high school. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

13 minutes ago, Timeslider 6 said:

Isn't Barrett considered a DT QB ?

Don't think the problem is landing them, the problem is developing them.

Gus developed a CB with a strong arm into an effective QB in his offense. Why can't he develop the four star QB's? (And JF3 isn't one of the four stars in talking about).

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

57 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

1.Well we still have Gatewood. 

2.And I'm not speaking for all Auburn fans( that's obvious as Bird pointed out I'm the black sheep of the group and and I will cherish that role), but I do believe our offense carries a stigma of being a dumbed down, anti-NFL offense. And recruits are listening to it and going elsewhere. Call it the John Gruden effect.

3.Texas A&M is kicking our ass in QB recruiting. We for sure wanted Murray, Mond and now Stidham and looks like they will get all three. 

4. Our coaches are either going after the wrong QB's or our coaches are not realistically able to evaluate talent anymore. We went after Torrance Gibson early and late in one recruiting clas, and let Lamar Jackson walk away without a commitable offer. And we also went after JF3, not Jerod Evans. I know for a fact that Torrance Gibson is now a WR at Ohio State and JF3 should definitely be a WR. 

Good thoughts, the Texas A&M thing I just don't understand.  Sumlin looses 5* QBs due to internal conflict and picks up two more when Auburn is recruiting them in a position of need.  Sumlin on the hot seat and Gus will at least be here longer, I would guess.