$10 minimum wage costing Mass. jobs

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Has anyone SEEN the stuff that is paid for , via OUR tax $, on ' basics' via EBT fraud ? Or those getting SNAP subsidies ,and other govt goodies, while driving luxury cars and carrying around iPhone 6's and such ?

Wouldn't it be great if people were making enough money in their jobs that such things were only needed for those unable to work or for short periods between employment?

And you do know that this notion that tons of welfare recipients are driving luxury cars is a massive myth? Of course some are cheating the system. Just like some Wall St. hedge fund managers are cheating the system. People are a fallen race. But the vast, vast majority of people on these programs are not doing the things you describe.

[homersapien 11,373]

My compassion isn't measured by how much the govt forces / compelled others to pay a person.

So you are prepared to up taxes to cover the wage gap for working people who can't afford basic essentials? Sounds quite like a "spending liberal" to me!

Why would there be a need to up taxes ? Wage gap ? How is that a problem for the govt ?

Your strawman needs tending.

I think the assumption was we don't want to become a country with a significant portion of it's citizens living in abject poverty - bodies in the street, beggars, a permanent underclass incapable of improving themselves.

I guess your compassion can't be measured by your ability to imagine that either.

[homersapien 11,373]

They mean that a single mother with two or three kids should be able to live comfortably while making minimum-wage. What is actually is an entry-level pay for those just starting to work. They are expected to achieve, and through merit, earn higher Pay as they become more valuable to their employer.

I have never understood this reasoning. A 'minimum wage' position is NOT synonymous with a 'temporary' or 'entry-only' position, nor was it meant that way when minimum wage laws were written.

Many people work for minimum wage for years or their entire lifetime, but not because they are lazy, untalented, or simply not motivated to 'move up'. Some are stuck in minimum wage jobs because they never had the opportunity to attend college or get other training that would qualify them for higher paying positions due to limited financial means, time constraints, or family obligations. Some are stuck in minimum wage positions because they reside in economically-depressed areas and there are no better paying jobs in their locale, but again financial, health, or family constraints do not afford them the freedom or opportunity to pack up and re-locate in search of better paying employment elsewhere. And some folks have a genuine talent and love for the duties of their current position, but no desire or ability to move 'up' to a different role.

Regardless of 'why' anyone is in their current position, I believe in the dignity of all honest labor and consider a minimum wage position to deserve just as much respect as better paying jobs. I don't look at minimum wage labor as something meant for, or only good enough for teens, college students, or the extreme poor/uneducated. "Dignity of labor' is not ranked or measured by size of paycheck.

I think anyone who works hard full-time should earn enough at that job, whatever it is, to provide life's minimal necessities for his/her family (food, shelter, clothing, healthcare), as well as occasional, moderate, quality-time family activities like an occasional movie, a family night out, or a rare trip to the local ballpark. That is what I consider a 'living wage'.

Bull Hockey. you can work at a fast food restaurant and work your way up and make decent amount about minimum wage. And you don't need a college degree for that and many jobs like it. If someone is staying at minimum wage it is because they aren't making any progress in their job skills or can't hold down a job because they don't show up or always late. No one is stuck at minimum wage. And if they are hard full-time workers at their job, their boss will reward them with higher pay. They won't stay at minimum wage.

Was that a profession of faith or a statement of fact?

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Some welfare myths to dispel:

Myth 1: People on welfare are unmotivated and not working.

Get a Job? Most Welfare Recipients Already Have One.

Low-wage jobs strain the welfare system:

http://t.co/Pe3zWZSyy5

pic.twitter.com/TdyQSXCANv

— IIWF (@INInstitute)

April 19, 2015

Welfare recipients are often characterized as lazy, simply waiting for the next month's benefits to roll in. But nearly 73% of people receiving public benefits are members of working families.

Some programs, like TANF, actually operate under the expectation that families are working but need temporary assistance to become financially stable. Many argue the problem is really income inequality, which leaves minimum wage earners struggling to afford basic needs, and therefore reliant on public assistance.

Viewing people as morally responsible for their own situations "obviously ignores the systemic inequalities in the economy and polity that make people poor in the first place," independent scholar Gwendolyn Mink, who authored Welfare's End and several other works on public assistance programs, tells Mashable. "The kind of income inequality that is in the system puts especially women of color at the lowest end of the earning spectrum, which is a sentence of abject poverty."

Even though welfare recipients are in the labor force, Mink explains, they aren't earning enough money to support a family and provide food security for their children while at the same time pay bills, such as rent and utilities...

Myth 4: Countless "welfare queens" are working the system's loopholes.

dampen any celebration RT

@dcck

:

#hunger

stat: 1 in 5 children in the US rely on food stamps.

http://t.co/K4ljMYdzDH

pic.twitter.com/0z6tRE7YqU

— John Turner (@jt1anglais)

July 4, 2015

In any debate of welfare, you'll often hear stories of the "welfare queen" — a racialized term used to describe women who are accused of cheating the system to gain maximum benefits.

Her origin can be traced back to a Ronald Reagan campaign rally in 1976, where the former president said, "In Chicago, they found a woman who holds the record. She used 80 names, 30 addresses, 15 telephone numbers to collect food stamps, Social Security, veterans' benefits for four nonexistent deceased veteran husbands, as well as welfare. Her tax-free cash income alone has been running $150,000 a year."

But the reality of the undeserving welfare queen is not the rule — it's the exception. Mink says it's unreasonable to make judgments based on "one bad apple in every bunch."

It's also difficult to work the system with the goal of becoming that bad apple. WIC and SNAP are full of restrictions preventing the use of coupons for monetary gain, while TANF is only available for five years within a person's lifetime.

Myth 5: Once a person goes on welfare, they'll freeload off it for years.

Eligibility requirements prevent government aid recipients from getting benefits if they don't demonstrate dire need. TANF programs, for example, have a federal lifetime limit of five years.

"You might be on consecutively for five years and fall off," Mink says, "but if you fall into dire straits five years from now, forget it. You can't get back into the program."

As a result, these requirements often prevent some people from accessing the support they need. For instance, the federal government's food stamp cuts enacted at the end of 2014, which included tighter eligibility restrictions, had experts predicting severe hardships for the nation's poorest by 2016.

Welfare offers basic support to provide families with the bare necessities, if even that. Many families on welfare are simply looking to use government assistance as a way to build up their finances during tough times, with the goal of getting back on their feet.

"Nobody wants to stay on welfare if they can get a decent job with decent wages with decent working conditions," Mink says.

Myth 6: Welfare programs are eating up valuable tax dollars.

Almost half of

#ChildCare

workers rely on public assistance. We need

#WorthyWages

. Read more from

@CSCCEUCB

:

http://t.co/JiIJLQf3a4

#1u

— AFSCME (@AFSCME)

May 1, 2015

A recent study from UC Berkeley found that public assistance programs cost taxpayers $152.8 billion every year (indicating a need for better wages). While this is a sizable chunk of cash, it isn't even close to the amount poor families need.

Benefits per family are minimal, still leaving many scrambling at the end of the month to afford their expenses. As of late 2014, the average monthly food stamp benefit came in at $133.07 per participant. Though TANF benefits can fall anywhere between $200 and $1,000 per family, the average monthly amount of assistance per recipient families was $392 per month in 2010.

"Are people as concerned about how the military spends their tax dollars or how much money we give to Amtrak?" Mink says. "A very small percentage of the federal budget is consumed by welfare spending..."

Your tax dollars aren't going to waste. These programs are helping families survive, not thrive.

http://mashable.com/...d/#97UeLeU7vEqB

[homersapien 11,373]

My compassion isn't measured by how much the govt forces / compelled others to pay a person.

So you are prepared to up taxes to cover the wage gap for working people who can't afford basic essentials? Sounds quite like a "spending liberal" to me!

Why would there be a need to up taxes ? Wage gap ? How is that a problem for the govt ?

Your strawman needs tending.

If my wages can't sustain my basics, then what do you suggest one do? If not apply to receive assistance (SNAP, housing vouchers, etc.) then what? starve? homelessness? If you do think they should just apply for assistance those programs depend on tax dollars.

Work harder, get a raise. Get s second pt job, get another job, start your own business... It's not up to the government ( which actually has no money it doesn't take from other people ) to supply your needs.

"Start your own business"?

What a great idea! They could use an inspirational speaker like you at the soup kitchen.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

A few more (or expounding on one's listed above):

9. Myth: “There’s a woman in Chicago. She has 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards. … She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income alone is over $150,000″ – Ronald Reagan

Fact: Ah, the “welfare queen.” Ronny loved to tell his stories, and his welfare queen story is one of the most popular. The only problem is the woman he talked about didn’t exist. There is some evidence that elements of this story may have been based on facts, but the descriptions of abuse by an actual woman were wildly exaggerated by Reagan.

8. Myth: “Welfare recipients keep having more kids so they can get more benefits.”

Fact: According to a 2010 report, which is the most recent data available, released by the federal Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the average family receiving TANF benefits has 1.8 children, which is about the same as the national average. Half of the families receiving TANF benefits only have one child. In fact, the average size of families receiving welfare benefits has declined from 4.0 in 1969 to 2.4 in 2010. Also, some states, such as Delaware and Georgia, make it clear to those who sign up for TANF benefits that their benefits will not increase if they have additional children. Taken from the Delaware Department of Health and Human Services website:

You will get information on family planning. Your check

will not increase

if you have a baby 10 months or more after you sign up for this program. [Emphasis added]

A Government Accountability Office report (page 45), shows the amount of TANF benefits paid in each state for one to three children. Even in states where having additional children will result in a benefit increase, that increase is, in most cases, $100 a month or less.

2. Myth: “People collect welfare instead of work, and they get rich. They all have iPhones, drive new cars, have widescreen tv’s, etc. I work and I can’t afford any of that!”

Fact: Since welfare payments vary by state and by the size of the family, it’s hard to provide all the pertinent numbers here, but here are some ranges:

• A family of four can expect up to $500 a month in food stamp benefits. A single person can expect an average of $200 a month.
  
• The average monthly allowance under TANF/AFDC is $900 for a family of four. For a single person the average is about $300.
  

It would be interesting to see what kind of “new car” anyone could buy on that income, or even an iPhone, for that matter. Also remember, despite what Newt Gingrich may have claimed during the 2012 election campaign, you can’t use food stamps for anything except food, so when you’re figuring how much money someone might have for an iPhone or a car, take that money out of the equation.

1. And finally, one final fact about welfare: Would anybody like to guess who makes up the single largest group on welfare in the United States? It’s children. One out of every four children in the United States receives welfare benefits.

http://www.ifyouonly...-about-welfare/

[AURaptor 1,123]

homie - go back to sleep. At least there you can follow your dreams w/ out fear of failing.

Titan - those aren't myths. And more Americans are now on food stamps than at any time on history.

And just because there's more fraud in waste in other areas of the govt doesn't mean the fraud and waste in social welfare can be ignored.

[homersapien 11,373]

My compassion isn't measured by how much the govt forces / compelled others to pay a person.

So you are prepared to up taxes to cover the wage gap for working people who can't afford basic essentials? Sounds quite like a "spending liberal" to me!

Why would there be a need to up taxes ? Wage gap ? How is that a problem for the govt ?

Your strawman needs tending.

If my wages can't sustain my basics, then what do you suggest one do? If not apply to receive assistance (SNAP, housing vouchers, etc.) then what? starve? homelessness? If you do think they should just apply for assistance those programs depend on tax dollars.

Work harder, get a raise. Get s second pt job, get another job, start your own business... It's not up to the government ( which actually has no money it doesn't take from other people ) to supply your needs.

Again, there's a special place for people like you who have no compassion for their neighbor. I'm not surprised, but still saddened.

The poison of Ayn Rand doing its work.

Statements like the ones above by Raptor remind me why I do more reading and less posting in this forum anymore. I think most of our problems as a society and a nation don't have such black and white answers. I think its shades of gray, give and take, with the basic principle that everyone willing to work deserves to have their work pay for the basics of living. When did some of us stop seeing our neighbors as people with real needs and real problems and real hearts rather than a number on a ledger with a bottom line?

It's much easier for people like him to think in the abstract instead of a confronting personal stories.

At least one hopes that's the case.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Has anyone SEEN the stuff that is paid for , via OUR tax $, on ' basics' via EBT fraud ? Or those getting SNAP subsidies ,and other govt goodies, while driving luxury cars and carrying around iPhone 6's and such ?

Wouldn't it be great if people were making enough money in their jobs that such things were only needed for those unable to work or for short periods between employment?

And you do know that this notion that tons of welfare recipients are driving luxury cars is a massive myth? Of course some are cheating the system. Just like some Wall St. hedge fund managers are cheating the system. People are a fallen race. But the vast, vast majority of people on these programs are not doing the things you describe.

The qualifier " a vast vast majority " doesn't dismiss the fact that many are. Far too many.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Titan - those aren't myths. And more Americans are now on food stamps than at any time on history.

Then refute them with facts, not just more baseless Raptor proclamations.

And just because there's more fraud in waste in other areas of the govt doesn't mean the fraud and waste in social welfare can be ignored.

No one is saying to ignore it. To whatever degree we can without keeping the needy from accessing benefits, we should get rid of it. We're saying that the extent of it is extremely overblown.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Has anyone SEEN the stuff that is paid for , via OUR tax $, on ' basics' via EBT fraud ? Or those getting SNAP subsidies ,and other govt goodies, while driving luxury cars and carrying around iPhone 6's and such ?

Wouldn't it be great if people were making enough money in their jobs that such things were only needed for those unable to work or for short periods between employment?

And you do know that this notion that tons of welfare recipients are driving luxury cars is a massive myth? Of course some are cheating the system. Just like some Wall St. hedge fund managers are cheating the system. People are a fallen race. But the vast, vast majority of people on these programs are not doing the things you describe.

The qualifier " a vast vast majority " doesn't dismiss the fact that many are. Far too many.

One is too many. Those are benefits that could be going to someone who needs them or making existing benefits stretch further. But don't act like the exception is somehow the rule. The abusers of these programs are minuscule compared to the ones who truly need it.

[AURaptor 1,123]

It's much easier for people like him to think in the abstraction instead of a dealing with personal cases.

At least one hopes that's the case.

You're the one dealing in abstractions. How's 20 TRILLION dollars in debt strike you, huh? " Abstract " enough for ya ?

Guess what ! That chicken is gonna come home to roost, and it's gonna land on this country harder than what we saw in '08.

All because everyone thinks their little bit of straw won't kill the camel.

[homersapien 11,373]

My compassion isn't measured by how much the govt forces / compelled others to pay a person.

So you are prepared to up taxes to cover the wage gap for working people who can't afford basic essentials? Sounds quite like a "spending liberal" to me!

Why would there be a need to up taxes ? Wage gap ? How is that a problem for the govt ?

Your strawman needs tending.

If my wages can't sustain my basics, then what do you suggest one do? If not apply to receive assistance (SNAP, housing vouchers, etc.) then what? starve? homelessness? If you do think they should just apply for assistance those programs depend on tax dollars.

Work harder, get a raise. Get s second pt job, get another job, start your own business... It's not up to the government ( which actually has no money it doesn't take from other people ) to supply your needs.

Again, there's a special place for people like you who have no compassion for their neighbor. I'm not surprised, but still saddened.

The poison of Ayn Rand doing its work.

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-John Rodgers

That was my sig for a while.

Classic. Makes me miss Craig Ferguson.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Titan - you gave me an opinion piece, not 'facts'. Why should I have to counter your tripe w/ facts ? I have better things to do.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Politics of personal destruction against Ayn Rand, when you can't / won't deal w/ the concepts she was promoting.

Typical Leftist bull****.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

It's much easier for people like him to think in the abstraction instead of a dealing with personal cases.

At least one hopes that's the case.

You're the one dealing in abstractions. How's 20 TRILLION dollars in debt strike you, huh? " Abstract " enough for ya ?

How much of that was racked up in welfare benefits?

Truth of the matter is, we spend about a third of the budget on the military, a third on Social Security and a third on healthcare (Medicaid and Medicare). They total roughly $2.6 trillion of our spending (2015 numbers). Welfare benefits (food assistance, unemployment) make up about $136 billion ($0.136 trillion). In other words, the Big Three are 20 times higher than welfare benefits.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Titan - you gave me an opinion piece, not 'facts'. Why should I have to counter your tripe w/ facts ? I have better things to do.

I gave you facts, with links to hard numbers. You've given the typical non-stop stream of bull**** from your keyboard.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Politics of personal destruction against Ayn Rand, when you can't / won't deal w/ the concepts she was promoting.

Typical Leftist bull****.

She earned her opprobrium. And her concepts, once you got into the details and beyond broad aphorisms, were fairy tales. Fairy tales even she herself failed to follow.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Politics of personal destruction against Ayn Rand, when you can't / won't deal w/ the concepts she was promoting.

Typical Leftist bull****.

She earned her opprobrium. And her concepts, once you got into the details and beyond broad aphorisms, were fairy tales. Fairy tales even she herself failed to follow.

bull****. You're just falling for the rhetoric of the Left who despised her, and chose to ignore what she was saying.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Politics of personal destruction against Ayn Rand, when you can't / won't deal w/ the concepts she was promoting.

Typical Leftist bull****.

She earned her opprobrium. And her concepts, once you got into the details and beyond broad aphorisms, were fairy tales. Fairy tales even she herself failed to follow.

bull****. You're just falling for the rhetoric of the Left who despised her, and chose to ignore what she was saying.

I read for myself what she said. It's a truckload of bull**** with a few nuggets of truth scattered within. You're a sucker for believing the hype.

And she's a hypocrite.

[homersapien 11,373]

Why Ayn was such a devout follower of her own advice until death............Well, except for this..............

http://www.huffingto...e_b_792184.html

Awesome.

Worth a haiku:

mythological

right wing hero does face plant

it will matter not

[AURaptor 1,123]

Titan - you gave me an opinion piece, not 'facts'. Why should I have to counter your tripe w/ facts ? I have better things to do.

I gave you facts, with links to hard numbers. You've given the typical non-stop stream of bull**** from your keyboard.

No. you have me half baked opinions, and phony red herrings and false premises.

Rethinking the War on Poverty

In theory, a deluge of federal programs across the spectrum are intended to cure any number of America’s ills, including poverty. In practice, with little to no coordination, the federal anti-poverty ship has become leaky, rudderless, and ineffective. Much of this results from a tendency to get an ever-growing number of Americans onto these programs as opposed to a focus on creating the right incentives and economic climate needed for them to get off and become self-sufficient.

http://cagw.org/media/wastewatcher/rethinking-war-poverty

In a thread about how stupid and useless it is to institute higher federally mandated min wages, you're turning it into an all out whole sale promotion for bigger and bigger govt.

It's insanity, but you're too g- damn hard headed to see it.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Why Ayn was such a devout follower of her own advice until death............Well, except for this..............

http://www.huffingto...e_b_792184.html

Awesome.

Worth a haiku:

mythological right wing hero does face plant

it will matter not

Seriously , go back to Russia.

[homersapien 11,373]

Proverbs 26:4

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him." (NIV)

I should post that on my keyboard.

That would cut your time in this forum way down, Homer.

Exactly

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Titan - you gave me an opinion piece, not 'facts'. Why should I have to counter your tripe w/ facts ? I have better things to do.

I gave you facts, with links to hard numbers. You've given the typical non-stop stream of bull**** from your keyboard.

No. you have me half baked opinions, and phony red herrings and false premises.

Rethinking the War on Poverty

In theory, a deluge of federal programs across the spectrum are intended to cure any number of America’s ills, including poverty. In practice, with little to no coordination, the federal anti-poverty ship has become leaky, rudderless, and ineffective. Much of this results from a tendency to get an ever-growing number of Americans onto these programs as opposed to a focus on creating the right incentives and economic climate needed for them to get off and become self-sufficient.

http://cagw.org/medi...ing-war-poverty

In a thread about how stupid and useless it is to institute higher federally mandated min wages, you're turning it into an all out whole sale promotion for bigger and bigger govt.

It's insanity, but you're too g- damn hard headed to see it.

Yeah. Less the 4% of the federal budget is sending us spiraling into fiscal ruin.

Those words with the blue letters that are underlined are called hyperlinks. They will take you to the facts behind the statements. But in typical Raptor fashion, you will cordon off your brain from anything that runs the least bit counter to the religiously adhered-to narrative you've sold your soul to, refuse to read them and engage your brain, yet manage to declare victory. Same song, 1878th verse.

Seriously, your presence in this forum is a complete waste of keystrokes.