$10 minimum wage costing Mass. jobs

[homersapien 11,373]

Well hell, while we're at it, let's just roll it all back why don't we? If work is just a contract between an individual and an employer for whatever the two of them agree to, let's ditch workplace safety requirements, overtime regulations, environmental codes and such. If you're willing to risk you life and health, then the profits of the owner should be paramount. It'll save us all a whole lot of money to get rid of all those safeguards that slow down productivity anyway.

I mean, if the government (meaning: you and me) has no role to play in setting a reasonable minimum wage, what makes workplace safety and other labor rules so sacrosanct? Get rid of it all. Survival of the fittest, y'all!

Govt does not mean ' you and me '. It probably hasn't meant that for well over 100 years.

But of course you're being ridiculous. No one said we should live in an anarchy. No rules, everyone for themselves. But neither did our Founders ever dream of so much micro managing and interference by the FEDERAL govt on every single matter in our lives.

The pendulum has swung far , far to the tyranny we fought against, and the mirage you're living in is thinking that govt is " just you and me ! ".

That's a rather revealing rant.

[AUDub 11,148]

Seriously, your presence in this forum is a complete waste of keystrokes.

Now now, Titan. No need to state facts here.

[homersapien 11,373]

Right. The poison of freedom is such a terrible thing to take, huh?

Here ya go Titan. Take the blue pill.

She was an awful human being, an utterly selfish shrew and a hypocrite to boot. If she's a hero of yours, it's all the more to your shame.

She may have been all those things, but she was also right. She escaped the horrors of soviet communism, at a time when the West was falling in love w/ the idea.

Seems you still live in a fairy tale haze of romanticizing about a mother Russia that never existed.

Now you're getting totally incoherent.

[homersapien 11,373]

Why Ayn was such a devout follower of her own advice until death............Well, except for this..............

http://www.huffingto...e_b_792184.html

Awesome.

Worth a haiku:

mythological right wing hero does face plant

it will matter not

Seriously , go back to Russia.

You've got a bit of spittle on your chin.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Yeah. Less the 4% of the federal budget is sending us spiraling into fiscal ruin.

Those words with the blue letters that are underlined are called hyperlinks. They will take you to the facts behind the statements. But in typical Raptor fashion, you will cordon off your brain from anything that runs the least bit counter to the religiously adhered-to narrative you've sold your soul to, refuse to read them and engage your brain, yet manage to declare victory. Same song, 1878th verse.

Seriously, your presence in this forum is a complete waste of keystrokes.

Exactly which straw is going to break the camel's back ?

And you may be a complete fool, but don't assume others are as well.

You're being duped by the false claims and straw men which are set up to be presented as ' fact '.

Like when Hillary often repeats the LIE of the gender wage gap being 21%. Completely false. But repeat the lie often enough, idiots and myrmidons buy into it, because it sounds so true !

[AURaptor 1,123]

Seriously, your presence in this forum is a complete waste of keystrokes.

Now now, Titan. No need to state facts here.

Sorry, your emperor is not wearing any clothes. You can go right along and pretend you see that very fine suit, but it doesn't change the fact that there really is nothing there.

[homersapien 11,373]

homie - go back to sleep. At least there you can follow your dreams w/ out fear of failing.

Titan - those aren't myths. And more Americans are now on food stamps than at any time on history.

And just because there's more fraud in waste in other areas of the govt doesn't mean the fraud and waste in social welfare can be ignored.

Raptor takes to facts like the Wicked Witch of the West took to water - Aiiiiiiiiieeeeee !!!! I'm melllllllting!

[AUDub 11,148]

Why Ayn was such a devout follower of her own advice until death............Well, except for this..............

http://www.huffingto...e_b_792184.html

Awesome.

Worth a haiku:

mythological right wing hero does face plant

it will matter not

Seriously , go back to Russia.

You've got a bit of spittle on your chin.

Are we still doing Ayn Rand haiku?

Objectivists rule

Go write your own damned haiku

Socialist scumbag

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Exactly which straw is going to break the camel's back ?

Probably won't be a straw. It'll be one of the three anvils mentioned earlier.

And you may be a complete fool, but don't assume others are as well.

You're being duped by the false claims and straw men which are set up to be presented as ' fact '.

Then refute them with facts. "Because I say so" isn't a refutation.

[homersapien 11,373]

It's much easier for people like him to think in the abstraction instead of a dealing with personal cases.

At least one hopes that's the case.

You're the one dealing in abstractions. How's 20 TRILLION dollars in debt strike you, huh? " Abstract " enough for ya ?

How much of that was racked up in welfare benefits?

Truth of the matter is, we spend about a third of the budget on the military, a third on Social Security and a third on healthcare (Medicaid and Medicare). They total roughly $2.6 trillion of our spending (2015 numbers). Welfare benefits (food assistance, unemployment) make up about $136 billion ($0.136 trillion). In other words, the Big Three are 20 times higher than welfare benefits.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Not to mention the military is far more wasteful than any civilian program. Waste is built in to our military industrial complex.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Why Ayn was such a devout follower of her own advice until death............Well, except for this..............

http://www.huffingto...e_b_792184.html

Awesome.

Worth a haiku:

mythological right wing hero does face plant

it will matter not

Seriously , go back to Russia.

You've got a bit of spittle on your chin.

Are we still doing Ayn Rand haiku?

Objectivism rules

Go write your own damned haiku

Socialist scumbag

Parasites should not

Mooch off of our work, except

When I'm the moocher

[AURaptor 1,123]

Exactly which straw is going to break the camel's back ?

Probably won't be a straw. It'll be one of the three anvils mentioned earlier.

And you may be a complete fool, but don't assume others are as well.

You're being duped by the false claims and straw men which are set up to be presented as ' fact '.

Then refute them with facts. "Because I say so" isn't a refutation.

I won't engage in refuting straw man arguments. Their very premise is false and misleading. Point is, the social welfare spending is costing us more than need be, and we're getting nothing in return. Same result could be achieved by spending half as much and directing it to those in need. ( NOTE how I didn't NOT say cut all social welfare spending to ZERO ?? )

As for Ayn Rand, it's clear to me that the vast majority here have no real clue of what she was saying. You only hear what you're told by others, and you ignore the rest. But I admit, I'm fighting against such wide spread ignorance on the matter, insulting you for your lack of knowledge is getting no where.

[channonc 466]

Has anyone SEEN the stuff that is paid for , via OUR tax $, on ' basics' via EBT fraud ? Or those getting SNAP subsidies ,and other govt goodies, while driving luxury cars and carrying around iPhone 6's and such ?

Wouldn't it be great if people were making enough money in their jobs that such things were only needed for those unable to work or for short periods between employment?

And you do know that this notion that tons of welfare recipients are driving luxury cars is a massive myth? Of course some are cheating the system. Just like some Wall St. hedge fund managers are cheating the system. People are a fallen race. But the vast, vast majority of people on these programs are not doing the things you describe.

BINGO!

[channonc 466]

homie - go back to sleep. At least there you can follow your dreams w/ out fear of failing.

Titan - those aren't myths. And more Americans are now on food stamps than at any time on history.

And just because there's more fraud in waste in other areas of the govt doesn't mean the fraud and waste in social welfare can be ignored.

But of course paying working people a wage that would cover these necessities is a "handout". How much of a "handout" do you get from your employer? Do they know how much time you spend on this forum? Sounds like they are paying for nothing during parts of the day.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I won't engage in refuting straw man arguments. Their very premise is false and misleading.

They aren't straw man arguments. They use facts and number to directly undercut some of the most cherished tropes of people like you. If you can't refute them, then simply admit what everyone else outside of your brain already knows - you're wrong.

Put up or shut up.

Point is, the social welfare spending is costing us more than need be, and we're getting nothing in return. Same result could be achieved by spending half as much and directing it to those in need. ( NOTE how I didn't NOT say cut all social welfare spending to ZERO ?? )

We are directing it to those in need. That's the entire point we're trying to get through that cast iron noggin of yours. The abuse and waste you are screaming about, even if we could get it to zero, isn't going to save enough money to make a dent in your "straw that broke the camel's back" scenario because the welfare queen tales you say to yourself are the extreme exception, not the rule.

As for Ayn Rand, it's clear to me that the vast majority here have no real clue of what she was saying. You only hear what you're told by others, and you ignore the rest. But I admit, I'm fighting against such wide spread ignorance on the matter, insulting you for your lack of knowledge is getting no where.

I've read what she said myself. I didn't need anyone else to tell me nor explain it to me. The fact that I disagree with so much of it is not an indication that I have not read it or only know it secondhand. I know that fries circuits in your logic board to think the someone might think differently than you and actually have studied the matter for themselves, but get used to it. Happens all the time.

[channonc 466]

My compassion isn't measured by how much the govt forces / compelled others to pay a person.

So you are prepared to up taxes to cover the wage gap for working people who can't afford basic essentials? Sounds quite like a "spending liberal" to me!

Why would there be a need to up taxes ? Wage gap ? How is that a problem for the govt ?

Your strawman needs tending.

If my wages can't sustain my basics, then what do you suggest one do? If not apply to receive assistance (SNAP, housing vouchers, etc.) then what? starve? homelessness? If you do think they should just apply for assistance those programs depend on tax dollars.

Work harder, get a raise. Get s second pt job, get another job, start your own business... It's not up to the government ( which actually has no money it doesn't take from other people ) to supply your needs.

Again, there's a special place for people like you who have no compassion for their neighbor. I'm not surprised, but still saddened.

The poison of Ayn Rand doing its work.

Statements like the ones above by Raptor remind me why I do more reading and less posting in this forum anymore. I think most of our problems as a society and a nation don't have such black and white answers. I think its shades of gray, give and take, with the basic principle that everyone willing to work deserves to have their work pay for the basics of living. When did some of us stop seeing our neighbors as people with real needs and real problems and real hearts rather than a number on a ledger with a bottom line?

It's much easier for people like him to think in the abstract instead of a confronting personal stories.

At least one hopes that's the case.

It's sad either way.

[channonc 466]

homie - go back to sleep. At least there you can follow your dreams w/ out fear of failing.

Titan - those aren't myths. And more Americans are now on food stamps than at any time on history.

And just because there's more fraud in waste in other areas of the govt doesn't mean the fraud and waste in social welfare can be ignored.

Raptor takes to facts like the Wicked Witch of the West took to water - Aiiiiiiiiieeeeee !!!! I'm melllllllting! :laugh:/>

LMAO.

[AUFAN78 3,895]

It has been mentioned a couple times in the thread, yet no one arguing for the increases have responded. Not sure why?

What impact would this have on small business including mom and pop stores?

[AURaptor 1,123]

I won't engage in refuting straw man arguments. Their very premise is false and misleading.

They aren't straw man arguments. They use facts and number to directly undercut some of the most cherished tropes of people like you. If you can't refute them, then simply admit what everyone else outside of your brain already knows - you're wrong.

Put up or shut up.

Point is, the social welfare spending is costing us more than need be, and we're getting nothing in return. Same result could be achieved by spending half as much and directing it to those in need. ( NOTE how I didn't NOT say cut all social welfare spending to ZERO ?? )

We are directing it to those in need. That's the entire point we're trying to get through that cast iron noggin of yours. The abuse and waste you are screaming about, even if we could get it to zero, isn't going to save enough money to make a dent in your "straw that broke the camel's back" scenario because the welfare queen tales you say to yourself are the extreme exception, not the rule.

yes, they are straw men arguments.

The format of " People say.... " and then they come up w/ some half true answer to a question that was ill phrased in the first place.

Despite the stated or good intentions, the $ is being woefully wasted. The war-on-poverty is a complete failure. Maybe as bad or worse than the war on drugs.

But you...well,

Refuse to accept reality.

As for Ayn Rand, it's clear to me that the vast majority here have no real clue of what she was saying. You only hear what you're told by others, and you ignore the rest. But I admit, I'm fighting against such wide spread ignorance on the matter, insulting you for your lack of knowledge is getting no where.

I've read what she said myself. I didn't need anyone else to tell me nor explain it to me. The fact that I disagree with so much of it is not an indication that I have not read it or only know it secondhand. I know that fries circuits in your logic board to think the someone might think differently than you and actually have studied the matter for themselves, but get used to it. Happens all the time.

You read w/ a biased eye, eager to dismiss her and her views for being 'uncaring and greedy ' , as she's so often described by the dominant Leftist media. It's like Che Guvara, but in reverse. She's reviled , and yet he's adored. Why ? He murdered and raped , was a racist, but the romantic image of him as being ' for the people ' is a fabrication that sells. I mean, just look at how cool that t-shirt is !!! GREAT logo, huh??

It's bull****. It's wide spread manipulation, and a product of sheeple buying into a false belief. Because " the cooool kids " say so .

[homersapien 11,373]

You read w/ a biased eye, eager to dismiss her and her views for being 'uncaring and greedy ' , as she's so often described by the dominant Leftist media. It's like Che Guvara, but in reverse. She's reviled , and yet he's adored. Why ? He murdered and raped , was a racist, but the romantic image of him as being ' for the people ' is a fabrication that sells. I mean, just look at how cool that t-shirt is !!! GREAT logo, huh??

It's bull****. It's wide spread manipulation, and a product of sheeple buying into a false belief. Because " the cooool kids " say so .

Priceless.

Let's ignore the facts about Ayn Rand and talk about Che Guvara (sic) instead.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Yes, they are straw men arguments.

The format of " People say.... " and then they come up w/ some half true answer to a question that was ill phrased in the first place.

Despite the stated or good intentions, the $ is being woefully wasted. The war-on-poverty is a complete failure. Maybe as bad or worse than the war on drugs.

But you...well,

Refuse to accept reality.

Then it should be simple for you to go beyond merely asserting your rightness and actually proving it by refuting one of the arguments. Something more than "Raptor hath declared it so." Just one.

You read w/ a biased eye, eager to dismiss her and her views for being 'uncaring and greedy ' , as she's so often described by the dominant Leftist media.

Actually, when I first encountered her writings and statements, I was highly sympathetic to her views. If there was any "biased eye" it was in her favor. Far from being eager to dismiss, she seemed at first a wealth of ammo to throw at libs.

But I grew up. I examined beneath the veneer of intellectualism. I read the counter arguments and probed to undermine them. But in time I realized they often had a point. Her arguments are shallow once you get beyond the one-liners. She's not 100% wrong. Almost no one is. But she's far too wrong to take seriously on the subjects she holds forth on.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Atlas Shrugged.

A real 1 liner.

Safe to say you did not understand what she was talking about there.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Atlas Shrugged.

A real 1 liner.

Safe to say you did not understand what she was talking about them.

How about you do you, and stop embarrassing yourself trying to analyze me? The only safe thing to say here is that you should talk less.

Atlas Shrugged was not what I was referring to with that particular line. She has plenty of writings, quotes and statements beyond those plodding abominations to good literature.

[AURaptor 1,123]

Priceless.

Let's ignore the facts about Ayn Rand and talk about Che Guvara (sic) instead. :lmao:/>

No, it was both. A compare / contrast thing. Sorry if that went over your head.

[homersapien 11,373]

Priceless.

Let's ignore the facts about Ayn Rand and talk about Che Guvara (sic) instead. :lmao:/>

No, it was both. A compare / contrast thing. Sorry if that went over your head.

Actually, desperately trying to change the subject is more of a weaseling thing. Right up your ally.