PoetTiger 1,899 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 This thread is full of dreams ...lol. The day a head coach starts listening to non-football powers that be will be the day his career is over at that school. I know a lot of us are frustrated but pump the brakes and be realistic for a second. You want the alledged PTB at Auburn..at Auburn to tell Gus what he needs to do. How did that work out the last time Auburn was influenced by the PTB? The biggest mistake in judgement Gus and Rhett made was with Jeremy, they thought they had their guy for the future. Hell we all did, we saw what he did when backed up Nick and thought QB was something we would not have to worry about for at least two years. It was a big miss that IMO left them scrambling. I have seen QBS in Gus system put up some great passing numbers, against the best defensive coach in the game. One miss at the most important position on the field can set you back two years. Could the offense be more innovative...of course. But we have all seen it be practically unstoppable when he has the right playmakers in place. No coach should become complacent and ignore innovation particularly if it can help you win more game. So can he change some things for the better...of course...but some of these suggestions are completely ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, PoetTiger said: This thread is full of dreams ...lol. The day a head coach starts listening to non-football powers that be will be the day his career is over at that school. I know a lot of us are frustrated but pump the brakes and be realistic for a second. You want the alledged PTB at Auburn..at Auburn to tell Gus what he needs to do. How did that work out the last time Auburn was influenced by the PTB? The biggest mistake in judgement Gus and Rhett made was with Jeremy, they thought they had their guy for the future. Hell we all did, we saw what he did when backed up Nick and thought QB was something we would not have to worry about for at least two years. It was a big miss that IMO left them scrambling. I have seen QBS in Gus system put up some great passing numbers, against the best defensive coach in the game. One miss at the most important position on the field can set you back two years. Could the offense be more innovative...of course. But we have all seen it be practically unstoppable when he has the right playmakers in place. No coach should become complacent and ignore innovation particularly if it can help you win more game. So can he change some things for the better...of course...but some of these suggestions are completely ludicrous. My problem this year was less about missing on Jeremy and more about Gus fiddling around wasting plays with stupid trickery, hokey formations and general bullheadedness. The three-headed (or later, two-headed) QB rotation, the Cox Cat, the spinning pirouette Wing-T nonsense, Cox throwing the ball on 4th and 3 after you called a timeout just in time to give the surprise of that play away earlier in the game, being the only person in America unable to tell that Sean White was too hurt to play vs UGA, not giving JF3 more passing opportunities in mop up duty, running the ball 77% of the time on first down. That is what needs to change and the only way it will is for Gus to be a head coach and not a coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoetTiger 1,899 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: My problem this year was less about missing on Jeremy and more about Gus fiddling around wasting plays with stupid trickery, hokey formations and general bullheadedness. The three-headed (or later, two-headed) QB rotation, the Cox Cat, the spinning pirouette Wing-T nonsense, Cox throwing the ball on 4th and 3 after you called a timeout just in time to give the surprise of that play away earlier in the game, being the only person in America unable to tell that Sean White was too hurt to play vs UGA, not giving JF3 more passing opportunities in mop up duty, running the ball 77% of the time on first down. That is what needs to change and the only way it will is for Gus to be a head coach and not a coordinator. I can see your point...if he does not and the wins decline then it will take care of itself. I just don't think he will ever pass the reigns of thecthem offense off to someone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarEagle1983 2,185 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: My problem this year was less about missing on Jeremy and more about Gus fiddling around wasting plays with stupid trickery, hokey formations and general bullheadedness. The three-headed (or later, two-headed) QB rotation, the Cox Cat, the spinning pirouette Wing-T nonsense, Cox throwing the ball on 4th and 3 after you called a timeout just in time to give the surprise of that play away earlier in the game, being the only person in America unable to tell that Sean White was too hurt to play vs UGA, not giving JF3 more passing opportunities in mop up duty, running the ball 77% of the time on first down. That is what needs to change and the only way it will is for Gus to be a head coach and not a coordinator. Sounds like a comedy football skit but yet that's what we got on offense with our football team. When you put it all together in one statement...i feel like drinking again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURealist 2,185 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, PoetTiger said: ...they thought they had their guy for the future. Hell we all did, we saw what he did when backed up Nick and thought QB was something we would not have to worry about for at least two years... I realize misery loves miserable company, but please stop projecting this mistake onto others. It may have been what Gus, Rhett, you and others saw, but anyone could compare JJ's highschool film and his college film and see serious problems there that were not being addressed. Besides, saying such things hides the real problem. Gus and Rhett made a false assumption based on bad coaching. And what's worse, they seem to have learned nothing from it because they yet again this season refused to develop their other QBs. So once again the backups were not ready for primetime when called upon when needed. They knew those kids weren't ready and resorted to childish trickery to break something loose. What kind coach doesn't prepare contingency plans for QB injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeslider 6 269 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 34 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: My problem this year was less about missing on Jeremy and more about Gus fiddling around wasting plays with stupid trickery, hokey formations and general bullheadedness. The three-headed (or later, two-headed) QB rotation, the Cox Cat, the spinning pirouette Wing-T nonsense, Cox throwing the ball on 4th and 3 after you called a timeout just in time to give the surprise of that play away earlier in the game, being the only person in America unable to tell that Sean White was too hurt to play vs UGA, not giving JF3 more passing opportunities in mop up duty, running the ball 77% of the time on first down. That is what needs to change and the only way it will is for Gus to be a head coach and not a coordinator. Titan, i was wondering do you think Gus (or someone else) can increase or broaden the passing game (namely more complicated passing plays) or would you need to change too much ( the blocking schemes) in order to accomplish this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Just now, Timeslider 6 said: Titan, i was wondering do you think Gus (or someone else) can increase or broaden the passing game (namely more complicated passing plays) or would you need to change too much ( the blocking schemes) in order to accomplish this? I think Kendall Briles could broaden the passing game within our offensive scheme. There might be other guys as well, but certainly him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keesler 5,924 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 35 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: My problem this year was less about missing on Jeremy and more about Gus fiddling around wasting plays with stupid trickery, hokey formations and general bullheadedness. The three-headed (or later, two-headed) QB rotation, the Cox Cat, the spinning pirouette Wing-T nonsense, Cox throwing the ball on 4th and 3 after you called a timeout just in time to give the surprise of that play away earlier in the game, being the only person in America unable to tell that Sean White was too hurt to play vs UGA, not giving JF3 more passing opportunities in mop up duty, running the ball 77% of the time on first down. That is what needs to change and the only way it will is for Gus to be a head coach and not a coordinator. The problem is that we were ALL pretty much typing some of the exact ish this time last year. Head scratching play calling, stubborn predictable play calling, running the ball every freaking first down play. Many of us were so freaking pissed about the overall offensive scheme and piss poor play calling + poor roster management this time last year. Yet, very little change actually took place and as a result here we are regurgitating the same stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeslider 6 269 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 That would be the best of both worlds, but i had heard someone on the boards say that the blocking schemes may prevent changing the passing game too much. Just wondering what others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoetTiger 1,899 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 18 minutes ago, AURealist said: I realize misery loves miserable company, but please stop projecting this mistake onto others. It may have been what Gus, Rhett, you and others saw, but anyone could compare JJ's highschool film and his college film and see serious problems there that were not being addressed. Besides, saying such things hides the real problem. Gus and Rhett made a false assumption based on bad coaching. And what's worse, they seem to have learned nothing from it because they yet again this season refused to develop their other QBs. So once again the backups were not ready for primetime when called upon when needed. They knew those kids weren't ready and resorted to childish trickery to break something loose. What kind coach doesn't prepare contingency plans for QB injuries? Don't understand the misery loves company thing...but what people saw on the field in relief of Nick is what they based it on - not HS, where many players look great and play poorly and vice versa. Many sports analysts/prognosticators also thought he would contend for the Heisman, based on the eyeball test and the opportunity to put up big numbers in this offense. We can judge every decision these coaches make in hindsight and make our opinions to be more factual than they really are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AubieAH3 238 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 16 hours ago, ToraGirl said: Don't feel too bad...honestly, Dabo would be a perfect faith-fit for Auburn, and we know he can coach. It's just his Bammer allegiance and a few smug comments over time (he's unfortunately in good company there)...for now, I truly hope Gus will mature in his ability to assess and adapt. It would be so easy to be behind him if we could see the fruit of beneficial changes. Good teachers HAVE to assess their students' strengths and weaknesses, make a plan to accelerate or remedy them, and for heaven's sake, SCRAP THE PLAN and adapt on the fly when need be...ESPECIALLY when they "don't execute." True, but I can't stand Dabo. He is probably the college football coach I hate the most, so it truly pains me to admit he's a very good coach. His post game comment after he beat us in 2011 about how it was "fitting for a Bama grad to end Auburn's winning streak" just cemented my eternal hatred for him. I've just honestly lost all faith in Gus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURealist 2,185 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 13 minutes ago, PoetTiger said: Don't understand the misery loves company thing...but what people saw on the field in relief of Nick is what they based it on - not HS, where many players look great and play poorly and vice versa. Many sports analysts/prognosticators also thought he would contend for the Heisman, based on the eyeball test and the opportunity to put up big numbers in this offense. We can judge every decision these coaches make in hindsight and make our opinions to be more factual than they really are... Or we can take on the 'expert' opinions of others as our own without really questioning it, (especially seeing as it's what we want to hear in this case.) For instance: I could see a story written by "news experts" stating that two men armed with a butcher knife and a gun drove a car into a crowd and were hacking and shooting down students at a well-known midwestern university. Now, I could take the AP at its word - them being professionals and all - or I could look into it myself and come to my own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToraGirl 5,498 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 2 hours ago, PoetTiger said: This thread is full of dreams ...lol. The day a head coach starts listening to non-football powers that be will be the day his career is over at that school. I know a lot of us are frustrated but pump the brakes and be realistic for a second. You want the alledged PTB at Auburn..at Auburn to tell Gus what he needs to do. How did that work out the last time Auburn was influenced by the PTB? The biggest mistake in judgement Gus and Rhett made was with Jeremy, they thought they had their guy for the future. Hell we all did, we saw what he did when backed up Nick and thought QB was something we would not have to worry about for at least two years. It was a big miss that IMO left them scrambling. I have seen QBS in Gus system put up some great passing numbers, against the best defensive coach in the game. One miss at the most important position on the field can set you back two years. Could the offense be more innovative...of course. But we have all seen it be practically unstoppable when he has the right playmakers in place. No coach should become complacent and ignore innovation particularly if it can help you win more game. So can he change some things for the better...of course...but some of these suggestions are completely ludicrous. 2 Then who holds a coach accountable? The AD theoretically? An AD can extend contracts and offer incentives/raises for meritorious and "meritorious" performance (and in some cases, amidst head-scratching on the message boards). Why then, can there be no countermeasure for exacting changes in a program, philosophy, or personnel when change is warranted? Even if it's not the ultimate change? I would think "change ultimatums" with acceptable rubrics from the right source would be preferential to, "You're fired!" without any chance to remedy and grow. But maybe that's just me. "No coach SHOULD." I agree, but without measurable benchmarks, how does one gather that he has or hasn't? "So can he change..." This is what we are all wondering. Can he (aptitude)? Will he (attitude)? How will we know if he actually has or will? Some of the solutions being posted are due to a perception that CGM is so stubborn that he will not hear of adapting his philosophy or mindset. True or not, we cannot know, but we can observe the results or lack thereof. We can listen to press conferences, pre and post. We can spot trends for the better (defense, followed by a DC change twice) and for the worse (offense regression...which is mystifying because of...and maybe because of...his experience on that side of the ball. Maybe it's easier to fix areas in which you aren't the "expert"?) We currently have a debate due to a huge question mark as to who is actually calling plays on game day/developing game plans prior, and we have an ending season game that looks so much like the first game that it makes one wonder if lasting change ISN'T happening, injuries aside. Stat quantifies what our eyes have seen. Some wins and losses matter more than others, for obvious reasons. Whether or not they should is also up for debate. You mention needing the right personnel for the "Gus system". You sure do if you refuse to adjust your scheme. Or if you CANNOT adjust it. But assuming they are out there to be recruited, is the Auburn fanbase going to be satisfied with all of the "in-between" years (even 8-4 but not beating our main rivals) until a Cam or a Nick come along? That is assuming Auburn will stay strong in recruiting. If Gus is the man, I DON'T want to see him go. I really like him and want to remain a true believer. But how does he get to the next level of efficiency and quality without some serious benchmarks, and whose job is it to impose them? Is it aptitude or attitude? That's my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoetTiger 1,899 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I think he needs a do a better job prepping a backup player at QB. When he has had a good QB his offense has been on point against everyone including Bama...this is factual even with SW (I know he has not faced Bama yet) So is his offense broke, his philosophy broken or does he just needs better QB play..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoetTiger 1,899 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 2 hours ago, ToraGirl said: Then who holds a coach accountable? The AD theoretically? An AD can extend contracts and offer incentives/raises for meritorious and "meritorious" performance (and in some cases, amidst head-scratching on the message boards). Why then, can there be no countermeasure for exacting changes in a program, philosophy, or personnel when change is warranted? Even if it's not the ultimate change? I would think "change ultimatums" with acceptable rubrics from the right source would be preferential to, "You're fired!" without any chance to remedy and grow. But maybe that's just me. "No coach SHOULD." I agree, but without measurable benchmarks, how does one gather that he has or hasn't? "So can he change..." This is what we are all wondering. Can he (aptitude)? Will he (attitude)? How will we know if he actually has or will? Some of the solutions being posted are due to a perception that CGM is so stubborn that he will not hear of adapting his philosophy or mindset. True or not, we cannot know, but we can observe the results or lack thereof. We can listen to press conferences, pre and post. We can spot trends for the better (defense, followed by a DC change twice) and for the worse (offense regression...which is mystifying because of...and maybe because of...his experience on that side of the ball. Maybe it's easier to fix areas in which you aren't the "expert"?) We currently have a debate due to a huge question mark as to who is actually calling plays on game day/developing game plans prior, and we have an ending season game that looks so much like the first game that it makes one wonder if lasting change ISN'T happening, injuries aside. Stat quantifies what our eyes have seen. Some wins and losses matter more than others, for obvious reasons. Whether or not they should is also up for debate. You mention needing the right personnel for the "Gus system". You sure do if you refuse to adjust your scheme. Or if you CANNOT adjust it. But assuming they are out there to be recruited, is the Auburn fanbase going to be satisfied with all of the "in-between" years (even 8-4 but not beating our main rivals) until a Cam or a Nick come along? That is assuming Auburn will stay strong in recruiting. If Gus is the man, I DON'T want to see him go. I really like him and want to remain a true believer. But how does he get to the next level of efficiency and quality without some serious benchmarks, and whose job is it to impose them? Is it aptitude or attitude? That's my question. The AD/President should be able to hold him accountable in all aspects .but boosters and other people should not tell a coach what he needs to do..Jmho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murpjf88 506 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Had enough... Auburn finishes the season 8-4, but the most damning number for Malzahn is his 0-6 record against Alabama and Georgia since 2014. In five of those games, the Tigers scored 13 or fewer points. The underlying problem in all of this comes down to quarterback recruiting. Without White, Auburn hasn’t been the same on that side of the ball. The coaching staff still hasn’t defined a clear role for Franklin III beyond situational gimmick, and Johnson — good teammate and hard worker though I’m sure he is — simply isn’t a starter. If there even was a 2016 contingency plan for White going down, it was drawn with crayons on construction paper. ...Still, issues with the game plan and overall management of personnel reared their ugly heads in the Iron Bowl, and all of that falls back on Malzahn’s shoulders. Once again, it looked like the former high school coach was engaging in educated guesswork on the sideline. He didn’t have the look of a coach who felt like he could beat Saban and mighty Alabama. ...Speaking of the offseason, there was silly talk of whether “CEO Malzahn” would become “Coach Gus” and take a more active role at practice and in game-planning sessions. I’d argue the opposite: Saturday’s loss seems to be yet another example that Auburn is better off if Malzahn does as little as possible. The fourth-year coach did just enough to fight off a change this season. If he wants to make it past Year 5, he might be best-served giving his coordinators even more autonomy. https://www.seccountry.com/auburn/auburn-football-gus-malzahn-job-future-quarterback-2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToraGirl 5,498 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 3 hours ago, PoetTiger said: The AD/President should be able to hold him accountable in all aspects .but boosters and other people should not tell a coach what he needs to do..Jmho.... I totally agree. That IS asking for trouble. Says history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToraGirl 5,498 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 4 hours ago, PoetTiger said: I think he needs a do a better job prepping a backup player at QB. When he has had a good QB his offense has been on point against everyone including Bama...this is factual even with SW (I know he has not faced Bama yet) So is his offense broke, his philosophy broken or does he just needs better QB play..... Broken...?? Decipherable....likely. He has to stay a few steps ahead of the competition, which has grown very skilled. The most moneyed are able to afford a staff that does little other than analyze film footage all day for weeks up until the game. Not saying I like what college football, especially Sabanesque has become...but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird 60,571 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Its not the scheme and its not the plays. Its been proven that the scheme and plays work. The issue is the play calling and predictability/tendency of the calls. Even if a new OC does nothing with regards to plays or schemes we would be better just by having better play calling breaking the previous tendencies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgr4life 8 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'm just a lowly fan who doesn't claim to be an football expert. After watching game Saturday, felt down about our team. But I forced myself to watch the replay today and I've decided not to hit the panic button. Here's what I think I see. With a healthy Sean White, we win that game or take it down to the wire in a classic nail biter IB. Would have helped if Pettway hadn't got injured. He seemed healthy enough to play but I wonder if injury didn't lose some of his edge mentally. Biggest mistake I think coaches made was letting JJ even get on the field at QB. He's terrible at QB. Someone should have seen this long ago and tried to develop him at another position. Coaches should have started JF3 and lived or died with him throwing and running. On passing situations, Bama D backed their ears and stunted and teed off on JJ. A JF3 would have forced them to stay in their lanes and allowed our OL to better protect. We still probably lose with JF3 tho. But mainly to me, Bama has all this supposedly superior talent to everyone else. But I don't see it. We have as many studs on the field as they do except at QB Saturday. Getting the horses is 90% of the battle. Rather have poor coaches who can get them and take the chance on coaches improving their play calling and decision making than a great 'coach' who can't get the players. You can't deny CGM & staff have gotten the talent. I hope the grumbling of the fans doesn't force changes that affect our ability to get players we need. Because I've seen times where the talent disparity between us and Bama was wide, and it is no fun to watch! Be careful all of the disgruntled fans don't get more than we bargained for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger 8,829 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'm as pissed as anyone, but to be fair when our current freshman and sophomores are finally juniors and seniors the talent gap many are referencing will look much different. We will miraculously have a lot of talent on the roster. The talent is there, they just aren't seasoned enough. Now, when you have such a young team you need plus coaching to offset the minus experience. We don't have that. When we have plus experience our minus coaching ends up looking a lot better. That is the Auburn cycle we have been in ever since Chizik was HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburn4ever 1,266 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Chad Morris as HC, Art Briles as OC and Kendal Briles as QB coach. And yes, we should keep Kevin Steele and Wesley McGriff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,221 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 22 hours ago, bigbird said: Its not the scheme and its not the plays. Its been proven that the scheme and plays work. The issue is the play calling and predictability/tendency of the calls. Even if a new OC does nothing with regards to plays or schemes we would be better just by having better play calling breaking the previous tendencies Damn I hate it when your right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,221 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 43 minutes ago, auburn4ever said: Chad Morris as HC, Art Briles as OC and Kendal Briles as QB coach. And yes, we should keep Kevin Steele and Wesley McGriff. You sir are a pro at posting ?????????????????????? but I know what your doing been seeing it for 10 years...............sly dog that you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,865 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 13 minutes ago, augolf1716 said: You sir are a pro at posting ?????????????????????? but I know what your doing been seeing it for 10 years...............sly dog that you are Could tell the rest of us? We are in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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