ESPN Preseason FPI Rankings

[WFE12 9,191]

9 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Agree 100%.

I won't be running on confidence... I'll be running on hope, prayer, genie wishes....

Sadly, if AU beats them 42-3, I will probably still have "when's the next brain-fart game" in the back of my mind throughout the season.

I will always feel this way as long as we have our current head coach. That feeling won't go away. There's no way we go through a season without boneheaded coaching causing a loss or a "harder than it needs to be" win.

[WFE12 9,191]

6 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

The problem is that every year we believe that Gus has found the fountain of coaching intelligence and that his complete bafoonery and dipshartary have been removed and he will never do such stupid things again.  And every year Lucy pulls that damn football out of the way and we realize we were all duped again.  And then we have these same conversations on the board about why we are so against Gus.

 

[DAG 33,988]

Subjectivity here. Gus is not a very good coach . In fact I will argue that there are only 3 current coaches who fit that category .

[Mikey 16,605]

6 hours ago, WFE12 said:

I will always feel this way as long as we have our current head coach. That feeling won't go away. There's no way we go through a season without boneheaded coaching causing a loss or a "harder than it needs to be" win.

How sad for you. Maybe forget football and take up fishing or camping until there is a coaching change, which with any luck will be in 10+ years.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

18 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Agree 100%.

I won't be running on confidence... I'll be running on hope, prayer, genie wishes....

Sadly, if AU beats them 42-3, I will probably still have "when's the next brain-fart game" in the back of my mind throughout the season.

 

9 hours ago, WFE12 said:

I will always feel this way as long as we have our current head coach. That feeling won't go away. There's no way we go through a season without boneheaded coaching causing a loss or a "harder than it needs to be" win.

I know what you mean. I felt the same way with Coach Dye and with Tubs.

[WFE12 9,191]

2 hours ago, Mikey said:

How sad for you. Maybe forget football and take up fishing or camping until there is a coaching change, which with any luck will be in 10+ years.

Well..... that's not gonna happen. Despite me thinking this way, I will still always support the players on the team. I think despite his ineptitude at times the team can still reach great heights like last season but it just became too much when it was paired with injuries. Like I said we can expect to have 1 or 2 dumb losses or harder than it needs to be wins and other than that we can just hope and pray that the team rises above it.

[gr82be 14,425]

10 hours ago, WFE12 said:

I will always feel this way as long as we have our current head coach. That feeling won't go away. There's no way we go through a season without boneheaded coaching causing a loss or a "harder than it needs to be" win.

 

1 hour ago, SumterAubie said:

 

I know what you mean. I felt the same way with Coach Dye and with Tubs.

I think fans at every school think this at times and yes, Dye and Tuberville were capable of less than stellar game plans and subsequent execution. Even the elite coaches like Meyer and Saban have their occasional games where they look a little more normal than their reputation. Auburn has their share but we are certainly not alone. We just pay more attention to it because we're Auburn fans. I guess my point is that everyone has ugly wins and most everyone has a loss that shouldn't have happened. I want Gus to get past this too but he definitely shows he has what it takes by having the November he had last season. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, SumterAubie said:

 

I know what you mean. I felt the same way with Coach Dye and with Tubs.

I agree with you about Tubs.  Especially whenever they had an early game against Arky.  I liked him fine, but was never 100% comfortable with him either.

I was too young through most of Dye's years to be critical.  I mostly just had the innocence of youth to feel like all Auburn games were magical regardless.  (Some of that probably had to do with the fact that less than 50% of the games were televised unlike today.).

However my recollection of AU losses during most of Dye's years (before '91 anyway) were more like the former on my original post: a bad break, a bad play, a bonehead moment, or a better team.  I don't remember feeling like "did they even practice this week?", like I have too often the last 3 years.

[AUIH1 1,515]

18 hours ago, DAG said:

If we beat this team 42-3, this would mean Gus and this team has turned a corner. I would be pleasantly surprised.

Not for me.  We beat uga 40-17 then what happened....

wde

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

Coach, Mikey,

                        It's a message board.  I like both of you and I enjoy reading your posts and I am glad you are on here.  Everyone isn't going to agree on everything.  The truth of the matter is, Gus is going to prove us right or wrong on the field and in recruiting and we are just talking about it.  For a fan base to be so divided on what type of coach he is may or may not be disturbing.  In my mind Gus was gone this year before the UGA and Bama games.  He coached like his job was on the line.  It looked as though it meant more to him than usual and I think his demeanor during and after those games showed that.  Subjectively, something has happened to Gus' offense and it isn't what it was.  We will certainly disagree on what that is and might even disagree that there is anything wrong with it but the facts show that Gus is not considered an offensive mastermind or genius like he was touted before.  For the record, I think Gus is a great person.  I think Gus has zero and I mean zero shadiness to his character. I do think he represents the University extremely well and I can't fathom a Hugh Freeze situation where Gus embarrasses Auburn or his family.  Hell I don't even see how Gus was really good friends with Hugh after seeing what went down.

I just don't want you guys or any others feeling like my main objective is to disagree with you or be negative.  Myself and others are just talking football and Gus from a different perspective. 

[Gowebb11 9,326]

On 2/14/2018 at 7:09 PM, corchjay said:

I don't want to be any other programs.  I love the Auburn Culture.  It's a part of our DNA.  I don't like the defeatist attitudes of some, the little brother attitude, but I do like the hard work attitude and blue collar team attitude.  

Gus has struggled in bowl games.  UCF this year was just a flop and he's responsible for the teams attitude which was very poor.  We have him for a minimum of the next 5 years.  The more the fan base gets behind him as a coach the better the recruiting can get.  When your own fan base trashes their coach the harder it gets to recruit.  Players and potential players definitely have access to the internet.  

But I still stand by what I said about winning on the road.  it's very difficult against good teams and we play 3 very good and well coached teams away from home next year.  

You’re right about the road factor. The majority of teams on that list will have played no more than 1 top 10 team as ranked at the end of the year. We will have likely played at least 3, all on the road. Although we should be very familiar with Benz Stadium come September. 

[Gowebb11 9,326]

On 2/17/2018 at 12:06 PM, AUsince72 said:

However my recollection of AU losses during most of Dye's years (before '91 anyway) were more like the former on my original post: a bad break, a bad play, a bonehead moment, or a better team.  I don't remember feeling like "did they even practice this week?", like I have too often the last 3 years.

Most of us do some rewriting of history as time goes by. I was at AU in the early 80s and its getting increasingly easy for me to reflect back on Dye’s years as a dominant run with only great moments. Then I remember the days of leaving Jordan-Hare griping about losing because we only threw 12 passes,or the botched fourth down play call, or going to the prevent defense too soon. The difference from then and now I believe is 24/7 365 coverage. (Mirrors politics a lot). We are so saturated with non stop articles, and hype, and coverage, that stuff often overtakes the game as our focus. There used to be a Thursday or Friday article about that weeks game, and an article or 2 on Sunday or Monday recapping the game. Now the buildup is days or weeks, stoking expectations. Then if you lose, the analysis is immediate and relentless for days or even weeks. I still love it, but I enjoyed it more when there was less coverage. (And ironically pre-message boards) ?

[AUsince72 11,084]

3 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

Most of us do some rewriting of history as time goes by. I was at AU in the early 80s and its getting increasingly easy for me to reflect back on Dye’s years as a dominant run with only great moments. Then I remember the days of leaving Jordan-Hare griping about losing because we only threw 12 passes,or the botched fourth down play call, or going to the prevent defense too soon. The difference from then and now I believe is 24/7 365 coverage. (Mirrors politics a lot). We are so saturated with non stop articles, and hype, and coverage, that stuff often overtakes the game as our focus. There used to be a Thursday or Friday article about that weeks game, and an article or 2 on Saturday or Sunday recapping the game. Now the buildup is days or weeks, stoking expectations. Then if you lose, the analysis is immediate and relentless for days or even weeks. I still love it, but I enjoyed it more when there was less coverage. (And ironically pre-message boards) ?

Lots of wisdom contained in this post.

....and not just as it relates to Auburn football, or even sports.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

3 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

Most of us do some rewriting of history as time goes by. I was at AU in the early 80s and its getting increasingly easy for me to reflect back on Dye’s years as a dominant run with only great moments. Then I remember the days of leaving Jordan-Hare griping about losing because we only threw 12 passes,or the botched fourth down play call, or going to the prevent defense too soon. The difference from then and now I believe is 24/7 365 coverage. (Mirrors politics a lot). We are so saturated with non stop articles, and hype, and coverage, that stuff often overtakes the game as our focus. There used to be a Thursday or Friday article about that weeks game, and an article or 2 on Saturday or Sunday recapping the game. Now the buildup is days or weeks, stoking expectations. Then if you lose, the analysis is immediate and relentless for days or even weeks. I still love it, but I enjoyed it more when there was less coverage. (And ironically pre-message boards) ?

Oh. I stomped and cursed all the way to the frat after Auburn blew the '81 game against a ranked Mississippi State team with a stupid 4th down call. Then the debacle against Miami in the '84 Kickoff classic. Laying an egg at Tennessee as number 1 in '85 Then the two botched games in '84 and '85 against bamr. Auburn had the better team in both games but played not to lose. Like they were walking on egg shells. 1988, undefeated, #4 in the country. Losing to an average 2-2 lsu team 7 to 6. And so on. 

The point being all coaches have lapses, not just Malzhan

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, SumterAubie said:

Oh. I stomped and cursed all the way to the frat after Auburn blew the '81 game against a ranked Mississippi State team with a stupid 4th down call. Then the debacle against Miami in the '84 Kickoff classic. Laying an egg at Tennessee as number 1 in '85 Then the two botched games in '84 and '85 against bamr. Auburn had the better team in both games but played not to lose. Like they were walking on egg shells. 1988, undefeated, #4 in the country. Losing to an average 2-2 lsu team 7 to 6. And so on. 

The point being all coaches have lapses, not just Malzhan

I get what you're saying and don't disagree.  Even the mighty bahr had some head scratchers in his career.

But being able to name a handful of games per a 10 year span is different from being able to name a handful of games per year.

I am a fan of Malzahn.  I WANT him to do well and become the next big name and Auburn to thrive.  I promise I do.

...and I'll leave it there.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 2/17/2018 at 11:06 AM, AUsince72 said:

I agree with you about Tubs.  Especially whenever they had an early game against Arky.  I liked him fine, but was never 100% comfortable with him either.

I was too young through most of Dye's years to be critical.  I mostly just had the innocence of youth to feel like all Auburn games were magical regardless.  (Some of that probably had to do with the fact that less than 50% of the games were televised unlike today.).

However my recollection of AU losses during most of Dye's years (before '91 anyway) were more like the former on my original post: a bad break, a bad play, a bonehead moment, or a better team.  I don't remember feeling like "did they even practice this week?", like I have too often the last 3 years.

I was introduced to Auburn football and Dye in 1991, so without looking back at the history of it all, my immediate reaction is "why do you people have such a high opinion of this guy?"  I got to suffer through 2 years of 5 win seasons as my introduction. That's probably why I have a lesser opinion of him that most and a higher opinion that most of Bowden, because Bowden, with all of his behind the scenes flaws, was a welcome relief to those first 2 years and my first live glimpse of what real Auburn football looked like.

[AUsince72 11,084]

10 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I was introduced to Auburn football and Dye in 1991, so without looking back at the history of it all, my immediate reaction is "why do you people have such a high opinion of this guy?"  I got to suffer through 2 years of 5 win seasons as my introduction. That's probably why I have a lesser opinion of him that most and a higher opinion that most of Bowden, because Bowden, with all of his behind the scenes flaws, was a welcome relief to those first 2 years and my first live glimpse of what real Auburn football looked like.

I remember you mentioning this to me before.  I certainly understand if that's all you knew of him.

However judging Coach Pat Dye only on '91 & '92 is like judging a supermodel only once she reaches her 80's.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

19 hours ago, SumterAubie said:

Oh. I stomped and cursed all the way to the frat after Auburn blew the '81 game against a ranked Mississippi State team with a stupid 4th down call. Then the debacle against Miami in the '84 Kickoff classic. Laying an egg at Tennessee as number 1 in '85 Then the two botched games in '84 and '85 against bamr. Auburn had the better team in both games but played not to lose. Like they were walking on egg shells. 1988, undefeated, #4 in the country. Losing to an average 2-2 lsu team 7 to 6. And so on. 

The point being all coaches have lapses, not just Malzhan

The difference between now and then is honestly the Internet and group think. Now narratives are developed and reinforced on mass so much so that people lose a sense of perspective and just automatically plug the situation into their chosen narrative, no matter how good or bad the fit. On top of that, we've become a society of sides where people almost refuse to live in the middle. You're either for or against, a fan or a hater, black or white, left or right... Whatever people chose, they are right and the other side is wrong, no matter what. Everyone is guilty of it to an extent.

Back in the day, you might complain about something to your friends, and you would probably end up talking it out, rationalizing a few things, and then going on with your day. Today, you get pissed, head to the internet, find people who are also pissed, latch on to the prevailing theory of the day, and run with it. Instead of letting the fire die down, all we have to do is logon and find more fuel to keep it stoked.

A study was actually done to show that Google is part of the problem. Because it tracks what you click on, it pulls up results to your searches that are geared toward your beliefs. In the study they had a hard liberal, a hard conservative and a independent all 3 run the exact same searches and all came up with vastly different results. The liberal got politically charged results that supported their views, same for the conservative, and the independent got results that weren't political at all.

 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

45 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I remember you mentioning this to me before.  I certainly understand if that's all you knew of him.

However judging Coach Pat Dye only on '91 & '92 is like judging a supermodel only once she reaches her 80's.

Oh, I get you... It is hard to separate experience from history, however. I have feelings and memories to go along with what I experienced and just videos and books to tell me about history.  Really, though, any beef I have with Dye now is that the PTB have used them as their figurehead for years, as they have made their off and on efforts to manipulate the program. I honestly can't blame him for liking the attention, but I also can't think of another school in the country that idolizes a living, former coach like some idolize him.

** scratch that... Fulmer... 

[AUsince72 11,084]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Oh, I get you... It is hard to separate experience from history, however. I have feelings and memories to go along with what I experienced and just videos and books to tell me about history.  Really, though, any beef I have with Dye now is that the PTB have used them as their figurehead for years, as they have made their off and on efforts to manipulate the program. I honestly can't blame him for liking the attention, but I also can't think of another school in the country that idolizes a living, former coach like some idolize him.

I get all that and understand.  I actually agree with you on the figurehead thing but then, how many "legendary" coaches from a school live on well past their time there.  I imagine some at FSU are ready for "Bowden influence" to leave (though many others revere him still).  Typically when a coaching legend leaves, they're REALLY gone inside of a few years so they can't do anything to sully their Legend.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, AUsince72 said:

I get all that and understand.  I actually agree with you on the figurehead thing but then, how many "legendary" coaches from a school live on well past their time there.  I imagine some at FSU are ready for "Bowden influence" to leave (though many others revere him still).  Typically when a coaching legend leaves, they're REALLY gone inside of a few years so they can't do anything to sully their Legend.

That's the other interesting thing that rattles around in my head from time to time. I have NO IDEA what it's like in other fan bases (except for the overtly public ones, like bama fans), just what's public, so I don't know what coaches stick around. Is Bowden still in Tallahassee? If so, if I was an FSU fan, I'd definitely be in the "move on" camp.

So, do you think it matters HOW they leave? We already know you can be fired and still revered. That has happened to several of our coaches. Have any coaches left for another school and maintained their popularity? Honestly the only time it makes sense to me is if a coach retires from your school, which I think is the scenario you were referring to. Unfortunately, I think those days are mostly past. Our society has given up loyalty for "what have you done for me lately" on both sides of the fence, so I think coaching dynasties are going to be a thing of the past. Snyder and Saban already have their statues. I can't think of anyone else in line for one. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

26 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The difference between now and then is honestly the Internet and group think. Now narratives are developed and reinforced on mass so much so that people lose a sense of perspective and just automatically plug the situation into their chosen narrative, no matter how good or bad the fit. On top of that, we've become a society of sides where people almost refuse to live in the middle. You're either for or against, a fan or a hater, black or white, left or right... Whatever people chose, they are right and the other side is wrong, no matter what. Everyone is guilty of it to an extent.

Back in the day, you might complain about something to your friends, and you would probably end up talking it out, rationalizing a few things, and then going on with your day. Today, you get pissed, head to the internet, find people who are also pissed, latch on to the prevailing theory of the day, and run with it. Instead of letting the fire die down, all we have to do is logon and find more fuel to keep it stoked.

A study was actually done to show that Google is part of the problem. Because it tracks what you click on, it pulls up results to your searches that are geared toward your beliefs. In the study they had a hard liberal, a hard conservative and a independent all 3 run the exact same searches and all came up with vastly different results. The liberal got politically charged results that supported their views, same for the conservative, and the independent got results that weren't political at all.

 

 

You're right about the internet.  As Mrs. Boucher would say "It's the Devil!!"

But I personally feel there are plenty "middle" people on this board.  There's a lot of us who love Malzahn and want him to succeed.  But because we're not willing to just go "we're gonna win cuz we're Auburn" and actually have honest critiques (because we care about the direction of AU football), which honestly come up in an honest conversation (yes, I'm meaning to keep using "honest"), we get lumped into the "negative" posters group and attacked by the truly Head in the Sand "sunshine" posters group.

We WANT Gus to do well and be AU's coach for a very long time.  But just cuz we SAY he doesn't have major flaws doesn't MEAN he doesn't have major flaws.  IF he fixes them this year AMEN!  I'll be among the first to say "Gus for President 2020!"

[DAG 33,988]

2 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

You're right about the internet.  As Mrs. Boucher would say "It's the Devil!!"

But I personally feel there are plenty "middle" people on this board.  There's a lot of us who love Malzahn and want him to succeed.  But because we're not willing to just go "we're gonna win cuz we're Auburn" and actually have honest critiques (because we care about the direction of AU football), which honestly come up in an honest conversation (yes, I'm meaning to keep using "honest"), we get lumped into the "negative" posters group and attacked by the truly Head in the Sand "sunshine" posters group.

We WANT Gus to do well and be AU's coach for a very long time.  But just cuz we SAY he doesn't have major flaws doesn't MEAN he doesn't have major flaws.  IF he fixes them this year AMEN!  I'll be among the first to say "Gus for President 2020!"

Great post! There are much more middle ground people on this forum than the extremes. Neither of those sides seem to be okay with such a mindset sadly.

[AUsince72 11,084]

12 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

That's the other interesting thing that rattles around in my head from time to time. I have NO IDEA what it's like in other fan bases (except for the overtly public ones, like bama fans), just what's public, so I don't know what coaches stick around. Is Bowden still in Tallahassee? If so, if I was an FSU fan, I'd definitely be in the "move on" camp.

So, do you think it matters HOW they leave? We already know you can be fired and still revered. That has happened to several of our coaches. Have any coaches left for another school and maintained their popularity? Honestly the only time it makes sense to me is if a coach retires from your school, which I think is the scenario you were referring to. Unfortunately, I think those days are mostly past. Our society has given up loyalty for "what have you done for me lately" on both sides of the fence, so I think coaching dynasties are going to be a thing of the past. Snyder and Saban already have their statues. I can't think of anyone else in line for one. 

My feeling is most "legendary" coaches are forced out due to age or health..  They're the personality types to keep going as long as they have breath.  So even if they "retire" it's not really their decision.  Bahr, Bobby, Schembechler...

Fulmer WAS forced out but just due to the team's decline.  That's why he's still revered as time (& sucky coaches since) has healed the old wounds.

Dye was forced out due to the scandal (and bad health) but he was forgiven from day one because most AU fans feel it was a shaft job perpetrated by the REC.

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

That's the other interesting thing that rattles around in my head from time to time. I have NO IDEA what it's like in other fan bases (except for the overtly public ones, like bama fans), just what's public, so I don't know what coaches stick around. Is Bowden still in Tallahassee? If so, if I was an FSU fan, I'd definitely be in the "move on" camp.

So, do you think it matters HOW they leave? We already know you can be fired and still revered. That has happened to several of our coaches. Have any coaches left for another school and maintained their popularity? Honestly the only time it makes sense to me is if a coach retires from your school, which I think is the scenario you were referring to. Unfortunately, I think those days are mostly past. Our society has given up loyalty for "what have you done for me lately" on both sides of the fence, so I think coaching dynasties are going to be a thing of the past. Snyder and Saban already have their statues. I can't think of anyone else in line for one. 

I'm curious what UF fans think of Meyer. Very complicated legacy. 

Also curious how Boise State fans feel about their last two coaches. 

As for loyalty, it seems we've replaced it with exorbitant salaries. We may not give you 4 years to right the ship, but work here 3 years and your grandkids' college is paid for.