Something is being overlooked in the Schiavo case

[MDM4AU 336]

I keep seeing people attempt to equate removing someone from a machine that controls an involuntary organ of the human body and in doing so is keeping a person alive to removing a machine that provides nurishment to the body.

There is an extreme difference here. Ms. Schiavo's involuntary organs are working. She simply needs nurishment just like the rest of us. Fortunately for us, we can feed ourselves. If an involuntary organ shuts down, all the nurishment in the world will not save the human it belongs to. When the organ shuts down the body begins to shut down and eventually dies.

To remove nurishment and allow someone to dehydrate and starve to death is just simply cruel and inhumane. And the decision is based on hear-say. Nothing to back it up. And that hear-say is coming from someone who is questionable when it comes to looking out for Ms. Schiavo's best interest. That just seems wrong anyway I look at it. I think the courts should have taken a longer look at this before blowing it off, as it appears to me that they have.

If there is anyone with an arguement that can change my mind, I will listen.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

I keep seeing people attempt to equate removing someone from a machine that controls an involuntary organ of the human body and in doing so is keeping a person alive to removing a machine that provides nurishment to the body.

There is an extreme difference here.  Ms. Schiavo's involuntary organs are working.  She simply needs nurishment just like the rest of us.  Fortunately for us, we can feed ourselves.  If an involuntary organ shuts down, all the nurishment in the world will not save the human it belongs to.  When the organ shuts down the body begins to shut down and eventually dies.

To remove nurishment and allow someone to dehydrate and starve to death is just simply cruel and inhumane.  And the decision is based on hear-say.  Nothing to back it up.  And that hear-say is coming from someone who is questionable when it comes to looking out for Ms. Schiavo's best interest.  That just seems wrong anyway I look at it.  I think the courts should have taken a longer look at this before blowing it off, as it appears to me that they have.

If there is anyone with an arguement that can change my mind, I will listen.

153008[/snapback]

I don't disagree with your point about nourishment. Perhaps our lawmakers should pass some new laws. Presumably, though, unlike the law Dubya signed in Texas, ability to pay shouldn't come into the equation if the matter is determined by what is "humane."

One point of disagreement, though, is with this statement:

I think the courts should have taken a longer look at this before blowing it off, as it appears to me that they have.

This may be the most reviewed case in history. They are operating on existing law. If that law is insufficient, that's the fault of legislators who have had years to change the laws. I suspect they don't want to deal with the cost of sustaining those who can't afford to pay for their own care.

[tiger88 934]

I think it's safe to say that nothing in this case has been overlooked.

Sometimes things happen in life that you don't agree with and you have no control over and you can either get all flustered about it or move on with your life.

You can dress it up anyway you want to but the woman was on life support with heavy heavy brain damage. Her husband made the decision to end the life support. He could have signed over rights to her parents and let them care for her, but he said her wishes weren't to be kept alive. Seems to me that if he wanted to he could have attained a divorce and left her to her parents. It's funny how wicked some people think the press are yet are so willing to accept the picture they paint of Mr Schiavo as a villain. All they are trying to do is whip people up into a frenzy so they will keep watching the freaking story.

Jmo, and .02.

[AUloggerhead 2,252]

I think it's safe to say that nothing in this case has been overlooked.

Sometimes things happen in life that you don't agree with and you have no control over and you can either get all flustered about it or move on with your life.

You can dress it up anyway you want to but the woman was on life support with heavy heavy brain damage. Her husband made the decision to end the life support. He could have signed over rights to her parents and let them care for her, but he said her wishes weren't to be kept alive. Seems to me that if he wanted to he could have attained a divorce and left her to her parents. It's funny how wicked some people think the press are yet are so willing to accept the picture they paint of Mr Schiavo as a villain. All they are trying to do is whip people up into a frenzy so they will keep watching the freaking story.

Your thoughts on this matter may be true, but I think there is much that is being ignored and a whole lot that is purposefully not being reported. You may change your mind about Mr Schiavo as villain after reading this Thomas Sowell commentary. Then again, you may choose to dismiss the nurse's sworn testimony as irrelevent. If you do, you are probably in Judge Greer's company. Link

... Many seem certain that Terri Schiavo is vegetative, does not understand what is going on around her and cannot respond. But Carla Sauer Iyer, a nurse who attended Mrs. Schiavo for more than a year, has contradicted all of this. Moreover, she has painted a very different picture of Michael Schiavo than the one he presents to the courts and to the media.

But you are not likely to find her eyewitness account of events in the mainstream media.

According to this nurse, Michael Schiavo complained that his wife wasn't dying fast enough -- only the word he used was not wife or woman but a word that cannot be repeated in a family newspaper.

The nurse's sworn statement, under penalty of perjury, is that she reported to the police that she had found Terri in both medical and emotional distress after a closed door visit by her husband -- and that she also found a vial of insulin, as well as needle marks on Terri, after Michael Schiavo's visit.

The same mainstream media that will scour the country to find individuals to quote in support of killing Terri Schiavo will not lift a finger to investigate the chilling charges this nurse filed with the police years ago. It might disturb the picture they are trying to paint.

Terri Schiavo is being killed because she is inconvenient to her husband and because she is inconvenient to those who do not want the idea of the sanctity of life to be strengthened and become an impediment to abortion. Nor do they want the supremacy of judges to be challenged, when judges are the liberals' last refuge.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

I think it's safe to say that nothing in this case has been overlooked.

Sometimes things happen in life that you don't agree with and you have no control over and you can either get all flustered about it or move on with your life.

You can dress it up anyway you want to but the woman was on life support with heavy heavy brain damage. Her husband made the decision to end the life support. He could have signed over rights to her parents and let them care for her, but he said her wishes weren't to be kept alive. Seems to me that if he wanted to he could have attained a divorce and left her to her parents. It's funny how wicked some people think the press are yet are so willing to accept the picture they paint of Mr Schiavo as a villain. All they are trying to do is whip people up into a frenzy so they will keep watching the freaking story.

Your thoughts on this matter may be true, but I think there is much that is being ignored and a whole lot that is purposefully not being reported. You may change your mind about Mr Schiavo as villain after reading this Thomas Sowell commentary. Then again, you may choose to dismiss the nurse's sworn testimony as irrelevent. If you do, you are probably in Judge Greer's company. Link

... Many seem certain that Terri Schiavo is vegetative, does not understand what is going on around her and cannot respond. But Carla Sauer Iyer, a nurse who attended Mrs. Schiavo for more than a year, has contradicted all of this. Moreover, she has painted a very different picture of Michael Schiavo than the one he presents to the courts and to the media.

But you are not likely to find her eyewitness account of events in the mainstream media.

According to this nurse, Michael Schiavo complained that his wife wasn't dying fast enough -- only the word he used was not wife or woman but a word that cannot be repeated in a family newspaper.

The nurse's sworn statement, under penalty of perjury, is that she reported to the police that she had found Terri in both medical and emotional distress after a closed door visit by her husband -- and that she also found a vial of insulin, as well as needle marks on Terri, after Michael Schiavo's visit.

The same mainstream media that will scour the country to find individuals to quote in support of killing Terri Schiavo will not lift a finger to investigate the chilling charges this nurse filed with the police years ago. It might disturb the picture they are trying to paint.

Terri Schiavo is being killed because she is inconvenient to her husband and because she is inconvenient to those who do not want the idea of the sanctity of life to be strengthened and become an impediment to abortion. Nor do they want the supremacy of judges to be challenged, when judges are the liberals' last refuge.

153031[/snapback]

Other things this nurse said in her affidavit:

When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented.  Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as “mommy,” and “help me.”  “Help me” was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances.  I heard her say it hundreds of times.

http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/CIyer...davit090203.htm

Over 16 years and no one else has witnessed this. Strange.

Conservative Republican justices are liberals' last refuge? Liberals are in trouble! BTW, there is not really a DNC position on this case.

[AUloggerhead 2,252]

Thanks for posting that link, TexasTiger. If you read the avadavit in its entirety, it certainly doesn't portray Michael Schiavo in a sympathetic light. Not only his standing orders to withold basic medical care (i.e. physical therapy, antibiotics, etc.) but the "I'm going to be rich!" and "don't notify the parents" statements seem particularly damning.

[MDM4AU 336]

On the Mr. Schiavo part, he is a villan in my eyes. During the malprctice suit, he claimed he was going to take care of her and nurse her back to health, etc. He won and was paid. As far as that goes, I don't have an opinion because I don't know all the details of the suit. He may have had all the right in the wolrd to sue.

My problem is only after he has a new life and a new wife and kids did he remember something Ms. Schiavo said years before to him while watching a movie. On top of that, his refusal to allow even her teeth brushed, or regular baths, or a TV on or a radio on in her room while all this is playing out just doesn't sit right with me.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

Thanks for posting that link, TexasTiger.  If you read the avadavit in its entirety, it certainly doesn't portray Michael Schiavo in a sympathetic light.  Not only his standing orders to withold basic medical care (i.e. physical therapy, antibiotics, etc.) but the "I'm going to be rich!" and "don't notify the parents" statements seem particularly damning.

153038[/snapback]

No, it doesn't. But the nurse makes so many outrageous claims regarding Terri's ability, the credibility of the entire affidavit is called into question. If you believe this nurse, Michael Schiavo is a cad and Terri Schiavo is alert and talking.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

On the Mr. Schiavo part, he is a villan in my eyes.  During the malprctice suit, he claimed he was going to take care of her and nurse her back to health, etc.  He won and was paid.  As far as that goes, I don't have an opinion because I don't know all the details of the suit.  He may have had all the right in the wolrd to sue. 

My problem is only after he has a new life and a new wife and kids did he remember something Ms. Schiavo said years before to him while watching a movie.  On top of that, his refusal to allow even her teeth brushed, or regular baths, or a TV on or a radio on in her room while all this is playing out just doesn't sit right with me.

153040[/snapback]

I don't know the guy, and maybe he's a jerk. But much of what has been put out there is over the top. From what I've gathered, he was a model caregiver the first few years and then concluded it was hopeless. As long as he had hope for recovery there was no reason to "pull the plug", even if that was her wish if recovery seemed hopeless.

[tiger88 934]

I think it's safe to say that nothing in this case has been overlooked.

Sometimes things happen in life that you don't agree with and you have no control over and you can either get all flustered about it or move on with your life.

You can dress it up anyway you want to but the woman was on life support with heavy heavy brain damage. Her husband made the decision to end the life support. He could have signed over rights to her parents and let them care for her, but he said her wishes weren't to be kept alive. Seems to me that if he wanted to he could have attained a divorce and left her to her parents. It's funny how wicked some people think the press are yet are so willing to accept the picture they paint of Mr Schiavo as a villain. All they are trying to do is whip people up into a frenzy so they will keep watching the freaking story.

Your thoughts on this matter may be true, but I think there is much that is being ignored and a whole lot that is purposefully not being reported. You may change your mind about Mr Schiavo as villain after reading this Thomas Sowell commentary. Then again, you may choose to dismiss the nurse's sworn testimony as irrelevent. If you do, you are probably in Judge Greer's company. Link

... Many seem certain that Terri Schiavo is vegetative, does not understand what is going on around her and cannot respond. But Carla Sauer Iyer, a nurse who attended Mrs. Schiavo for more than a year, has contradicted all of this. Moreover, she has painted a very different picture of Michael Schiavo than the one he presents to the courts and to the media.

But you are not likely to find her eyewitness account of events in the mainstream media.

According to this nurse, Michael Schiavo complained that his wife wasn't dying fast enough -- only the word he used was not wife or woman but a word that cannot be repeated in a family newspaper.

The nurse's sworn statement, under penalty of perjury, is that she reported to the police that she had found Terri in both medical and emotional distress after a closed door visit by her husband -- and that she also found a vial of insulin, as well as needle marks on Terri, after Michael Schiavo's visit.

The same mainstream media that will scour the country to find individuals to quote in support of killing Terri Schiavo will not lift a finger to investigate the chilling charges this nurse filed with the police years ago. It might disturb the picture they are trying to paint.

Terri Schiavo is being killed because she is inconvenient to her husband and because she is inconvenient to those who do not want the idea of the sanctity of life to be strengthened and become an impediment to abortion. Nor do they want the supremacy of judges to be challenged, when judges are the liberals' last refuge.

153031[/snapback]

I read an article today that had some statements from one nurse who crucified schiavo. He had had a relationship with her I do believe. Cant remember if it was this woman. The same story had another nurse in it that 100% contradicted what this woman said and claimed he appeared as a very loving husband who displayed the kind of emotional distress you would expect on every visit. Also had a guy in there who met schiavo through the hospital because a relative or someone was in distress and schiavo befriended the family, checked in on them at home regularly to see how they were doing, and took time to play catch and spend time with his son. Also schiavos brother explained that after watching their mother suffer through deathly sickness he arose from beside her bed and said that he had decided he could no longer let terri suffer. The brother said that thier father drilled into them that when you know what you want don't let anything stand in your way. The guy could have bad motives for all I know. I haven't seen anything that convinces me of that yet.

[tiger88 934]

On the Mr. Schiavo part, he is a villan in my eyes.  During the malprctice suit, he claimed he was going to take care of her and nurse her back to health, etc.  He won and was paid.  As far as that goes, I don't have an opinion because I don't know all the details of the suit.  He may have had all the right in the wolrd to sue. 

My problem is only after he has a new life and a new wife and kids did he remember something Ms. Schiavo said years before to him while watching a movie.  On top of that, his refusal to allow even her teeth brushed, or regular baths, or a TV on or a radio on in her room while all this is playing out just doesn't sit right with me.

153040[/snapback]

I don't know the guy, and maybe he's a jerk. But much of what has been put out there is over the top. From what I've gathered, he was a model caregiver the first few years and then concluded it was hopeless. As long as he had hope for recovery there was no reason to "pull the plug", even if that was her wish if recovery seemed hopeless.

153042[/snapback]

Exactly. He stayed with her for a long time. I'm telling you the press has really whipped this one up.