Where do you stand with Gus?

[AUsince72 11,084]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Well, he does recruit normal-sized backs. KJ was one, AMart is one, Malik Miller is one, Alaric Williams was one, and he's recruiting a few of them in this cycle. And, of course, Tre Mason was his most productive back, and most folks here called Tre a scat-back even as late as a few games into the 2013 season.

As for top-tier WRs, I think that NCM showed that being a good WR and being a good blocker aren't mutually exclusive. If these poor kids are going to buy what Kodi's selling, then why not get the best? Other than, you know, being honest with recruits and ourselves about what this offense really is and is really capable of. But I don't think that makes Gus that different from most big time coaches.

You might be right about QBs, but I think that the whole problem is Gus not acknowledging his limitations. He probably thinks that he's giving the QBs all the tools they need, and they're just failing him. 

 

 

True enough, I'm probably overreacting on the scat backs a bit, but he's recruiting Ferraris as wide receivers and using them for bulldozing work.  He's got a QB with an all-world arm and tossing 2 yd screens instead of real bonafide routes, he used Shivers as a mop-up fullback the other night and Kam tries to run like a full back all of a sudden (course that could be Kam's issue). He had a tremendous TE who really had no purpose in the O....

I'm just frustrated.  Like my girls' old Pre-K teacher used to say "a little bit sad and a little bit mad".

[Strychnine 1,802]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I believe you're correct. IIRC, he screwed up and won some games he wasn't supposed to post-Miles and the LSU PTB were painted into a corner. 

But it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he was Miles 2.0. Load the roster with your pick of the bayou's best, say some barely intelligible stuff (with Orgeron it's the accent, with Miles it was the words themselves), pass the gumbo and the bourbon around the locker room, and then get the hell out of the way. 

 

Indeed.  Orgeron only lost to Alabama and Florida as interim head coach, and both of those were close.  He also followed both of those up with convincing wins over Arkansas and Texas A&M.  I remember scuttlebutt of them being turned down by a few desired candidates, but Orgeron did well enough and was a good fit for the program.  I think they intended to land a Jimbo Fisher when they fired Miles, could not seal the deal with any such candidate, then settled for Orgeron.

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, Strychnine said:

 

Indeed.  Orgeron only lost to Alabama and Florida as interim head coach, and both of those were close.  He also followed both of those up with convincing wins over Arkansas and Texas A&M.  I remember scuttlebutt of them being turned down by a few desired candidates, but Orgeron did well enough and was a good fit for the program.  I think they intended to land a Jimbo Fisher when they fired Miles, could not seal the deal with any such candidate, then settled for Orgeron.

All I know is Orgeron is now 2-0 against Gus and has 2 solid wins this year including a fairly impressive win against Miami.  Personally, we may be selling him short.  LSU may just be his Shangri La.

[Tiger 8,826]

3 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

Even more maddening is that he wants to retain control, yet he won't recruit the dual-threat QB's he's had past success with, and furthermore keeps running the same style of offense despite not having a dual-threat QB. 

There's no reason AU shouldn't be landing one of the Top 3 dual-Qb's in country every couple of years based on the huge success of Nick Marshall and Cam Newton.

I seriously thought all the elite DT-QBs in the country would be breaking our door down to try to get a chance to play in our offense after 2013.

Our run game is severely hampered without either some freak at RB like Kerryon or a true threat on the ground at QB.  Imagine if 1/3 of our basic handoffs were actual reads where the DE or OLB had to actually keep an eye on the QB. It's like we are giving this look but nobody cares if Stidham keeps it so they sell out on the RB. Same with White. Same with JJ. 

WHY????

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

Even more maddening is that he wants to retain control, yet he won't recruit the dual-threat QB's he's had past success with, and furthermore keeps running the same style of offense despite not having a dual-threat QB. 

There's no reason AU shouldn't be landing one of the Top 3 dual-Qb's in country every couple of years based on the huge success of Nick Marshall and Cam Newton.

He's tried very hard to recruit dual threat guys. Joey Gatewood is a dual threat guy. We finished a close 2nd on Justin Fields. Bo Nix is listed as dual threat. Sandberg is more Tebow than he is pocket passer. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

True enough, I'm probably overreacting on the scat backs a bit, but he's recruiting Ferraris as wide receivers and using them for bulldozing work.  He's got a QB with an all-world arm and tossing 2 yd screens instead of real bonafide routes, he used Shivers as a mop-up fullback the other night and Kam tries to run like a full back all of a sudden (course that could be Kam's issue). He had a tremendous TE who really had no purpose in the O....

I'm just frustrated.  Like my girls' old Pre-K teacher used to say "a little bit sad and a little bit mad".

Oh, he's crapping his pants with the way he's using these guys, there's no doubt about that. 

[TigerFanAU 586]

6 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

True enough, I'm probably overreacting on the scat backs a bit, but he's recruiting Ferraris as wide receivers and using them for bulldozing work.  He's got a QB with an all-world arm and tossing 2 yd screens instead of real bonafide routes, he used Shivers as a mop-up fullback the other night and Kam tries to run like a full back all of a sudden (course that could be Kam's issue). He had a tremendous TE who really had no purpose in the O....

Very well said. He's done a good job of acquiring talent while at AU, but his utilization of that talent has resulted in a divided and polarized fanbase. 

I look at it this way, Tom Brady hasn't been able to produce for as long as he has, based solely on Tom Brady and Belicheck sticking to the same scheme every year. The Patriots have always tailored their offensive scheme to the strengths of the players surrounding Brady. First it was Randy Moss, then Welker, then LeGarrete Blunt, then Edelman, and now Gronk.  Gus seems to be squandering talent because he won't modify his scheme to the strengths of his players, and instead just needs a body to fill the roles.

[Strychnine 1,802]

1 minute ago, AUsince72 said:

All I know is Orgeron is now 2-0 against Gus and has 2 solid wins this year including a fairly impressive win against Miami.  Personally, we may be selling him short.  LSU may just be his Shangri La.

 

With the talent that can be stockpiled at LSU, it is the kind of place where I think failure requires effort.  Saban built a machine there, and Miles maintained it rather well.  Had Saban returned there, LSU would probably be what Alabama is today.  Armed with some good lessons on what not to do, I think it is Orgeron's Shangri-La.

[keesler 5,924]

14 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

Even more maddening is that he wants to retain control, yet he won't recruit the dual-threat QB's he's had past success with, and furthermore keeps running the same style of offense despite not having a dual-threat QB. 

There's no reason AU shouldn't be landing one of the Top 3 dual-Qb's in country every couple of years based on the huge success of Nick Marshall and Cam Newton.

There is a reason why AU isn't landing one of the Top 3 DT QBs in the country though - and it's not because AU & Gus/Chip aren't working like dogs to get them. 

It's because after 7 yrs as a HC and over 10 yrs in the college ranks, Gus Malzhan has yet to prove he can actually mold/develop/train a QB out of High School to be a productive QB in the SEC and bring that QB along through his college career to the point that he's ready for the pro's.  Parent's want some assurance, some security that they are sending their 5* DT-QB baby to a certified, bonafied, proven QB developer and as of today, they don't see that at Auburn.  

Gus or Chip or some other AU coach will have to prove that this program and it's coaching staff can develop a QB fresh out of high school, and turn him into a QB destined for the NFL.  You gotta have something to sell parents, produce a NFL ready DT-QB from the high school ranks and you can prove that Auburn and Gus Malzhan are the place to send your top QB's.

[Strychnine 1,802]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He's tried very hard to recruit dual threat guys. Joey Gatewood is a dual threat guy. We finished a close 2nd on Justin Fields. Bo Nix is listed as dual threat. Sandberg is more Tebow than he is pocket passer. 

 

Given what Gus has done with dual-threat QB's in the past, and the known run focus of his Auburn teams, one would think the best dual-threat QB's (and RB's) would be tripping over one another to play here.

[metafour 4,969]

2 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

Given what Gus has done with dual-threat QB's in the past, and the known run focus of his Auburn teams, one would think the best dual-threat QB's (and RB's) would be tripping over one another to play here.

Use some common sense.

The best dual threat QB's still want to play in the NFL.  That means that they do NOT want to go to an offense wherein they are used as a glorified RB.  Nobody in the NFL runs an offense that uses the QB like Nick Marshall....which is why Nick Marshall tried out as a DB, and why he's now in the CFL.  Cam Newton did not go #1 overall because of anything he did running the football, in fact, the method within which we used him was actually seen as his biggest NEGATIVE going into the 2010 draft.

[Swamp Eagle 5,140]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 11:45 AM, keesler said:

Quite frankly, I give Lindsey equal blame unless CGM is just down right overriding and bulldozing him to the point where he can't do his job.  Lindsey is more creative than this, and I think Lashley/Craig were as well.

1/Gus + 2/Gus = 3/Gus, with Gus being the common denominator.

[AUsince72 11,084]

15 minutes ago, keesler said:

There is a reason why AU isn't landing one of the Top 3 DT QBs in the country though - and it's not because AU & Gus/Chip aren't working like dogs to get them. 

It's because after 7 yrs as a HC and over 10 yrs in the college ranks, Gus Malzhan has yet to prove he can actually mold/develop/train a QB out of High School to be a productive QB in the SEC and bring that QB along through his college career to the point that he's ready for the pro's.  Parent's want some assurance, some security that they are sending their 5* DT-QB baby to a certified, bonafied, proven QB developer and as of today, they don't see that at Auburn.  

Gus or Chip or some other AU coach will have to prove that this program and it's coaching staff can develop a QB fresh out of high school, and turn him into a QB destined for the NFL.  You gotta have something to sell parents, produce a NFL ready DT-QB from the high school ranks and you can prove that Auburn and Gus Malzhan are the place to send your top QB's.

Or...

Maybe Gus should just stick to combing Jr Colleges for the best DT QB's.... Worked well a couple times already...

[keesler 5,924]

13 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

Given what Gus has done with dual-threat QB's in the past, and the known run focus of his Auburn teams, one would think the best dual-threat QB's (and RB's) would be tripping over one another to play here.

What the hell has Gus done with high school QB's?  You think parents should be tripping over themselves to send their stud QB to a program that has yet to develop a high school QB for the pro's?

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Or...

Maybe Gus should just stick to combing Jr Colleges for the best DT QB's.... Worked well a couple times already...

Wouldn't bother me in the least if we got a new juco guy every other year, as long as we hit on them. 

[BJCrawford 1,568]

What school does turn out the most NFL QBs? I’m thinking and it doesn’t seem as though there is one in particular (certainly not Bama)

[keesler 5,924]

2 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Or...

Maybe Gus should just stick to combing Jr Colleges for the best DT QB's.... Worked well a couple times already...

Why not?  If it works, stick with it.

I simply offered my opinion on why the Top 3 DT-QBs are tripping all over themselves to play at Auburn. 

People want Gus to recruit a QB that can run his system - that means he's got to evaluate talent at the HS level, and sell the player and his parents on his history of developing HS QB's for the pro's, 'cause those players want to make it to the NFL & big bucks just like every other 5* in pool of talent.

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

Why not?  If it works, stick with it.

I simply offered my opinion on why the Top 3 DT-QBs are tripping all over themselves to play at Auburn. 

People want Gus to recruit a QB that can run his system - that means he's got to evaluate talent at the HS level, and sell the player and his parents on his history of developing HS QB's for the pro's, 'cause those players want to make it to the NFL & big bucks just like every other 5* in pool of talent.

I agree with you.

I know I come off as flippant in some of my remarks but I'm dead serious.  You're right.  Gus' track record with recruiting HS QB's sucks.  Even the two "true" DT's on the roster, Willis & Gatewood, were admitted "projects" when signed.

Personally, I'll bet even JF3 might have done a reasonable Nick Marshall impression given half a chance.

#ButGus

[Strychnine 1,802]

10 minutes ago, keesler said:

What the hell has Gus done with high school QB's?  You think parents should be tripping over themselves to send their stud QB to a program that has yet to develop a high school QB for the pro's?

 

I did not say anything about high school QB's.  As far as I am concerned, he can grab the best JUCO dual-threat QB that he can find to play for a year or two all he wants.  He seems to have better results with transfers anyway.

[keesler 5,924]

4 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

I did not say anything about high school QB's.  As far as I am concerned, he can grab the best JUCO dual-threat QB that he can find to play for a year or two all he wants.  He seems to have better results with transfers anyway.

Well in that case, maybe the best JUCO DT-QBs are beating down his door wanting to play for him?  Who knows?

I suppose one has to scout/evaluate the JUCO ranks just as hard and diligent as the HS ranks?

[keesler 5,924]

15 minutes ago, BJCrawford said:

What school does turn out the most NFL QBs? I’m thinking and it doesn’t seem as though there is one in particular (certainly not Bama)

Great question, and it seems to be a mixed bag.  Bama sucks hind teet on Qbs in the pro's.

My memory isn't good, but I know OU cranked out Bradford/Mayfield recently, USC with Cassell/Darnold, aTm with Tannehill/Manziel but other than those the rest are a mixture of a dozen other teams from UCLA-Wisconsin-MichState-Cal-Clemson and Auburn.

[McLoofus 35,182]

42 minutes ago, BJCrawford said:

What school does turn out the most NFL QBs? I’m thinking and it doesn’t seem as though there is one in particular (certainly not Bama)

Saban has sent most his QBs to the NFL. McCarron is the only one still there. Tua looking like a first rounder.

A few schools have 3-4 guys currently in the league. USC, Oklahoma, etc. 

[Auburn Kev 1,653]

Explains many of the offensive struggles.

 

[ellitor 33,093]

14 minutes ago, Auburn Kev said:

Explains many of the offensive struggles.

 

The OL explains it for sure. It's frustrated the heck out of JS & the RBs.

[aujeff11 6,243]

34 minutes ago, Auburn Kev said:

Explains many of the offensive struggles.

 

If we cannot make explosive plays in the air, the much needed four yards later on become harder to obtain as well. It’s an issue that exacerbates other problems

I, for one, am ready for an explosive RB. It seems that Shivers is the most likely candidate out of that group and he rarely plays. That’s probably for good reason of his, but it still doesn’t excuse Gus for not having a capable back that can make defenses pay. He’s been here six years. We are past having to develop relationships. We should be getting the players that he needs to make his system tick.