Another mass shooting is underway

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

Trump is something different. He’s a living, breathing feedback loop that ratcheted everything into overdrive.

I was hard on the media for their culpability. I’m being hard on Trump too, because he’s a match that was thrown onto a powder keg. 

The issue with many is not that someone is hard on Trump in these circumstances - it is the fact that they are only hard on Trump. But, when an incident occurs such as Steve Scalise being gunned down, the entire conversation changes - it's no longer a politics thing, and anyone who tries to "blame the left" is wrong. Your attitude towards the Scalise shooting is a great example. While your position on that incident was sound, it lacks in consistency. Hence, it is the inconsistency that is troublesome for many. 

I know you probably disagree, but I am just offering a separate view. I understand you have your personal justifications for the change in position, and that's fine. We don't have have to engage in endless debate. 

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 hours ago, HVAU said:

I typically resist, as a type of false equivalence, the notion that Texan is bringing up here, but I think there is some merit.  The right has some awful talking heads looking to manipulate through fear and hatred, but the left has some using the rhetoric of punitive reparations that provides ammunition to those talking heads on the right.  Both parties need to deal with their radical elements or this cycle is going to spiral further out of control.  

 

Somebody's got to represent being the bigger person.

There's one fundamental flaw with this.  Being the bigger person doesn't win primaries because mostly hard-cores on each side vote in those. Regular folks like myself only vote in the generals.

For example, Cruz and Kasich both tried to be the bigger man during their respective primary runs in 2016.  You see how that ended up.  

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

3 hours ago, HVAU said:

I typically resist, as a type of false equivalence, the notion that Texan is bringing up here, but I think there is some merit.  The right has some awful talking heads looking to manipulate through fear and hatred, but the left has some using the rhetoric of punitive reparations that provides ammunition to those talking heads on the right.  Both parties need to deal with their radical elements or this cycle is going to spiral further out of control.  

 

Somebody's got to represent being the bigger person.

I'd like to buy you a beer.

Also I was not the first one that suggested this. This actually came from a Hispanic women that is neither a Democrat or a Republican and a discussion we had long before this incident.

[AUDub 11,153]

34 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

The issue with many is not that someone is hard on Trump in these circumstances - it is the fact that they are only hard on Trump. But, when an incident occurs such as Steve Scalise being gunned down, the entire conversation changes - it's no longer a politics thing, and anyone who tries to "blame the left" is wrong. Your attitude towards the Scalise shooting is a great example. While your position on that incident was sound, it lacks in consistency. Hence, it is the inconsistency that is troublesome for many. 

I know you probably disagree, but I am just offering a separate view. I understand you have your personal justifications for the change in position, and that's fine. We don't have have to engage in endless debate. 

I blame the media just as much as anybody for giving us Trump and aiding the creation of this environment, but let’s make this clear, something more is going on here, and it can’t all be laid at the feet of the media.

Within the span of a week:

A man sent nearly a dozen mail bombs to former democratic officials and thought leaders. By the grace of God, none killed.

We were a hair’s breadth from another Charleston type church shooting. 2 people were killed.

We might have the largest attack on Jews in the modern era of our country. 11 people have been killed.

Tack on the fact that, a little over a year ago, literal Nazi’s walked through American streets, complete with torches and chants about Blood and Soil and Jews. A counter protester was murdered. 

These people are emboldened. They are brazen. If it bleeds it leads has a role, sure, but now these dregs of humanity have something more; the idea that their abhorrent ideals are valid. Where they are getting that implied validation is something that our current leadership must consider when it speaks. 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

31 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

I'd like to buy you a beer.

Also I was not the first one that suggested this. This actually came from a Hispanic women that is neither a Democrat or a Republican and a discussion we had long before this incident.

I'll gladly buy the first round. Heck, I'll pay the tab. 

[AUDub 11,153]

Just now, AUFAN78 said:

I'll gladly buy the first round. Heck, I'll pay the tab. 

Get your ass to Hop City. They have BBA Ten Fidy on tap. I filled up a howler last night and am damn close to finishing it off. 30.99 for 32 oz. 

[AUDub 11,153]

This is literally the ZOG conspiracy, being presented on Fox Business by the head of judicial watch. ******* literally. 

 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

Just now, AUDub said:

Get your ass to Hop City. They have BBA Ten Fidy on tap. I filled up a howler last night and am damn close to finishing it off. 30.99 for 32 oz. 

 Get Brad and Tex there and tab on me. Heck, I'll treat to some real southern BBQ down the street at Saw's. Make it a memorable.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

44 minutes ago, AUDub said:

I blame the media just as much as anybody for giving us Trump and aiding the creation of this environment, but let’s make this clear, something more is going on here, and it can’t all be laid at the feet of the media.

Agree, but I've seen no one solely blame the media. They're simply a player in the relentless rhetoric.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

43 minutes ago, AUDub said:

These people are emboldened. They are brazen. If it bleeds it leads has a role, sure, but now these dregs of humanity have something more; the idea that their abhorrent ideals are valid. Where they are getting that implied validation is something that our current leadership must consider when it speaks. 

Do you understand what I am saying? If someone thinks that these actors feel validation from rhetoric, that's fine - whether I agree or not is immaterial. But why are people who feel that way not calling out leaders on the left also? Why didn't they call out rhetoric on the left when Scalise was shot? Why don't they call out Eric Holder? Why don't they call out Hillary? Why don't they call out the rhetoric of Dem. Rep when he threatens ICE officials? When a lunatic on the left carries out an egregious act, why shouldn't blame fall on rhetoric of the left?

If you think rhetoric is the root problem, then address is across the spectrum. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

 Get Brad and Tex there and tab on me. Heck, I'll treat to some real southern BBQ down the street at Saw's. Make it a memorable.

 

[AUDub 11,153]

4 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Do you understand what I am saying? If someone thinks that these actors feel validation from rhetoric, that's fine - whether I agree or not is immaterial. But why are people who feel that way not calling out leaders on the left also? Why didn't they call out rhetoric on the left when Scalise was shot? Why don't they call out Eric Holder? Why don't they call out Hillary? Why don't they call out the rhetoric of Dem. Rep when he threatens ICE officials? When a lunatic on the left carries out an egregious act, why shouldn't blame fall on rhetoric of the left?

If you think rhetoric is the root problem, then address is across the spectrum. 

I don't think so. Compare any Dem, ANY of them! To Trump. He employed Steve Bannon. Praised Paul Nehlen. He supports Corey Stewart & Steve King. Endorsed Matteo Salvini and Marine Le Pen. He's repeatedly RT'd open Neo-Nazis and published anti-Semitic propaganda on his twitter feed, and regurgitated the slogan of 1940s Hitler sympathizers.

And then Soros and this s*** with the "caravan."

Rhetorically there is no comparison and you ******* know it. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

3 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

The issue with many is not that someone is hard on Trump in these circumstances - it is the fact that they are only hard on Trump. But, when an incident occurs such as Steve Scalise being gunned down, the entire conversation changes - it's no longer a politics thing, and anyone who tries to "blame the left" is wrong. Your attitude towards the Scalise shooting is a great example. While your position on that incident was sound, it lacks in consistency. Hence, it is the inconsistency that is troublesome for many. 

I know you probably disagree, but I am just offering a separate view. I understand you have your personal justifications for the change in position, and that's fine. We don't have have to engage in endless debate. 

 

Nobody is blaming the left for the Scaline shooting, because the leaders on the left aren't openly encouraging violant behavior. Loud, obnoxious, rowdy behavior? Maybe. But I haven't seen Bernie Sanders or Liz Warrden tell people in their rallies to rough conservatives up and talk about the good old days when protestors would be "delt with". 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

5 minutes ago, AUDub said:

I don't think so. Compare any Dem, ANY of them! To Trump. He employed Steve Bannon. Praised Paul Nehlen. He supports Corey Stewart & Steve King. Endorsed Matteo Salvini and Marine Le Pen. He's repeatedly RT'd open Neo-Nazis and published anti-semitic propaganda on his twitter feed. And regurgitated the slogan of 1940s Hitler sympathizers.

And then Soros and this s*** with the "caravan."

Rhetorically there is no comparison and you ******* know it. 

I’m not even arguing about your perception of Trump’s rhetoric. It’s clear that you find it immensely problematic. We are talking about your belief of “validation” lunatics get from rhetoric, aren’t we? Clearly, it’s only reasonable for you to maintain that nuts on the left (or right) can attain validation through the rhetoric of public figures on the left as well. Thus, said rhetoric is worthy of condemnation. Unless of course, you don’t find issue with the rhetoric of the left. If you believe it is a root problem, yet only condemn republican leaders and thereby seemingly dismiss divisive rhetoric deployed by left, then your are inconsistent in your position. You clearly insinuated that posters on this message board were wrong to impute blame after  Steve Scalise was shot by a Bernie supporter - ok, fine with me. Yet, when you think the very tactic they used works in your favor, you use it yourself. 

No one is asking you to withhold your condemnation of President Trump. It’s the inconsistency that is at issue.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

2 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Nobody is blaming the left for the Scaline shooting, because the leaders on the left aren't openly encouraging violant behavior. Loud, obnoxious, rowdy behavior? Maybe. But I haven't seen Bernie Sanders or Liz Warrden tell people in their rallies to rough conservatives up and talk about the good old days when protestors would be "delt with". 

Numerous people pointed fingers at the left for the Scalise shooting. Nancy even addressed and condemned such blame in her presser. Hillary said Democrats should not be civil with Republicans. Eric holder said “when they go low, kick them.” Is that divisive? Should it be condemned rhetoric? Can psychos find validation in it?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

15 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Numerous people pointed fingers at the left for the Scalise shooting. Nancy even addressed and condemned such blame in her presser. Hillary said Democrats should not be civil with Republicans. Eric holder said “when they go low, kick them.” Is that divisive? Should it be condemned rhetoric? Can psychos find validation in it?

The Holder thing really needs the rest of the story.  In that same speech, he said this:

"When I say we kick them, I don't mean we do anything inappropriate, we don't do anything illegal, but we have to be tough and we have to fight," he said later.

[channonc 466]

37 minutes ago, AUDub said:

I don't think so. Compare any Dem, ANY of them! To Trump. He employed Steve Bannon. Praised Paul Nehlen. He supports Corey Stewart & Steve King. Endorsed Matteo Salvini and Marine Le Pen. He's repeatedly RT'd open Neo-Nazis and published anti-semitic propaganda on his twitter feed. And regurgitated the slogan of 1940s Hitler sympathizers.

And then Soros and this s*** with the "caravan."

Rhetorically there is no comparison and you ******* know it. 

This x1000!

I don't understand what's so hard to understand here. Why do people move into their camps of red and blue on this one? (rhetorical question on this forum...🙄) Reality is, gasoline has been poured on the flames of racist nutcases in this country. It was only a matter of time before people were killed. Words from politicians matter. Trump is now a politician, no longer "just a tv entertainer". The only reason he hasn't and won't tone it down is that stoking fear against "the other" helped him win. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

The Holder thing really needs the rest of the story.  In that same speech, he said this:

"When I say we kick them, I don't mean we do anything inappropriate, we don't do anything illegal, but we have to be tough and we have to fight," he said later.

Ok great. Thanks for that. I am sure Trump did not mean for people to go mail out fake bombs. But I guess you think he should have made that part clear? 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

2 minutes ago, channonc said:

This x1000!

I don't understand what's so hard to understand here. Why do people move into their camps of red and blue on this one? (rhetorical question on this forum...🙄) Reality is, gasoline has been poured on the flames of racist nutcases in this country. It was only a matter of time before people were killed. Words from politicians matter. Trump is now a politician, no longer "just a tv entertainer". The only reason he hasn't and won't tone it down is that stoking fear against "the other" helped him win. 

No one is saying his words don't matter. But to paint this as a unilateral issue amongst the party lines is ludicrous. Like you say, words from politicians matter. The people who truly believe rhetoric is a root problem are delusional if they only point a finger at Trump. All I am asking for is consistency, but apparently such a request is a gas-lighter. 

[AUDub 11,153]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

No one is saying his words don't matter. But to paint this as a unilateral issue amongst the party lines is ludicrous. Like you say, words from politicians matter. The people who truly believe rhetoric is a root problem are delusional if they only point a finger at Trump. All I am asking for is consistency, but apparently such a request is a gas-lighter. 

To equivocate is also ludicrous, Nola. There is no comparison. None. 

[AU64 10,122]

13 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Numerous people pointed fingers at the left for the Scalise shooting. Nancy even addressed and condemned such blame in her presser. Hillary said Democrats should not be civil with Republicans. Eric holder said “when they go low, kick them.” Is that divisive? Should it be condemned rhetoric? Can psychos find validation in it?

Over the past couple years, numerous dem leaders have encouraged their supporters to "confront" opponents where ever they run into them.  So...how big a step is it from chasing someone out of a café to actually taking a shot?  Thus far, physical violence (non fatal) is tolerated by media and dems....such as what has been happening in Portland ….without any effort to pin the blame on those who seem to actually and specifically encourage that kind of stuff. 

But I don't think any of the looney toons doing these shootings need anyone to "validate" their behavior ….and likely don't need anyone to give them the idea since this stuff has been going on for at least 30 years.  And,  I can't recall ever hearing any person of consequence praising the these horrible actions. 

[channonc 466]

8 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

No one is saying his words don't matter. But to paint this as a unilateral issue amongst the party lines is ludicrous. Like you say, words from politicians matter. The people who truly believe rhetoric is a root problem are delusional if they only point a finger at Trump. All I am asking for is consistency, but apparently such a request is a gas-lighter. 

Words from a President matter. PERIOD. 

Is this all on Trump? No, but as I said before, he openly threw gas on a burning flame. Fear is what keeps his supporters pumped. Watch any five minutes of his rallies. It's what he sells. Fear. Fear of the "other". 

PS- to quote Andrew Gillum "I'm not calling him a racist, I'm simply saying the racists think he's a racist" and he's done nothing to prove otherwise, and that's the problem. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

4 minutes ago, AUDub said:

To equivocate is also ludicrous, Nola. There is no comparison. None. 

LOL. You are getting up tight because I think the person who believes rhetoric is the root problem should condemn it across the board. 

Come on man. Chill out and have an ale. 

[AUDub 11,153]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

...since this stuff has been going on for at least 30 years....

Probably the largest mass killing of Jews in our country’s history. 

A dozen mail bombs, 

All of this within the span of a week. 

Dear God, do you people ever stop and think before posting? 

[channonc 466]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

Probably the largest mass killing of Jews in our country’s history. 

A dozen mail bombs, 

All of this within the span of a week. 

Dear God, do you people ever stop and think before posting? 

I'll clear that up for you... No.