The real redistribution of wealth

[PUB78 1,358]

6 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

After reading all of this I have a serious question.  For those that have children or grandchildren; what do you try to instill in their thoughts going forward?  Is it even worth trying to get an education and just accept they can’t improve their lot in life and give up?  Or get your education, make good decisions and live your life the best you can?

The latter, but trust God to provide . I had a goal to buy both kids their first new car, get them through college and married without them or me owing any money. By the grace of God and good planning, it was accomplished.

I hope we can leave some wealth to our children one day so that is another goal as I plan to work for another 3-5 years.

[Mikey 16,603]

6 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

So, when did you become part of the 1% Wonder Boy? Since it is so easy, I guess you must have achieved fairly early in life...

I am not rich, I am comfortable. In many ways, that's better.

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

21 hours ago, channonc said:

Georgetown released a study earlier this year finding that you are more likely to succeed being born rich than being born smart. 

Waste of a study....us morons have wished we could have been in the lucky sperm club for generations.

[japantiger 4,051]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

You make it sound as if the US "pathway" is, always has been, and always will be constant and is

 

All true.

I think the discussion is more about how to make an education available to those who aren't already privileged enough to be guaranteed one.

 

Every American gets a free high school education.   Just like many others on this forum; you can work and pay your way thru college.  I did it.  No loans, and certainly no guarantees; other than by my own labor.  I am the product of an all Alabama public education ... am I missing something in how this works?  Guarantees?  And I pursued my MBA the same way; at night after a full day's work and paid for it myself.     

[homersapien 11,373]

11 hours ago, japantiger said:

Every American gets a free high school education.   Just like many others on this forum; you can work and pay your way thru college.  I did it.  No loans, and certainly no guarantees; other than by my own labor.  I am the product of an all Alabama public education ... am I missing something in how this works?  Guarantees?  And I pursued my MBA the same way; at night after a full day's work and paid for it myself.     

That's exactly what they said when I was attending Irondale elementary back in the 60's.

Only it wasn't true for black kids.

You are also a product of your heritage.  Just like all of us. 

And lose the hubris, you're not the only one who put themselves through school - try a steel mill.

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's exactly what they said attending Irondale elementary back in the 60's.

Only it wasn't true for black kids.

Great thread and some interesting conversation. What are you getting at Brother Homer?

[homersapien 11,373]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

Great thread and some interesting conversation. What are you getting at Brother Homer?

The fact that in our society, most successful people had things "going for them" they don't appreciate.

For example, I was fortunate enough personally to have had contacts through my family that led me to profitable job offers- even if they were s***ty miserable jobs, they paid well.  Regardless it that's the sort of advantage that comes with socio-economic status.  It's a distinct advantage for those who are blessed with it.   (Or in the case of race, are "allowed" it by our system, eventually.)

Bottom line, our political/economic policies have a huge influence on individual opportunity for those who aren't born into it. 

 

 

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The fact that in our society, most successful people had things "going for them" they don't appreciate.

For example, I was fortunate enough personally to have had contacts through my family that led me to profitable job offers- even if they were s***ty miserable jobs, they paid well.  Regardless it that's the sort of advantage that comes with socio-economic status.  It's a distinct advantage for those who are blessed with it.   (Or in the case of race, are "allowed" it by our system, eventually.)

Bottom line, our political/economic policies have a huge influence on individual opportunity for those who aren't born into it. 

 

 

Everything you have said is correct. My life and my three boys much like yours. Excuse me if I am wrong but I thought this thread was about the separation from the 1% ers. You are bringing a different separation into the topic now. One much more concerning than the 5%ers vs the 1%ers to me. 

 

[homersapien 11,373]

25 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Everything you have said is correct. My life and my three boys much like yours. Excuse me if I am wrong but I thought this thread was about the separation from the 1% ers. You are bringing a different separation into the topic now. One much more concerning than the 5%ers vs the 1%ers to me. 

 

I am talking about a system that promotes equality of opportunity.

The discussion about the percentiles is merely parsing the statistics, not about addressing the problem.   (And it's really about the 10 percenter's vs everyone else.)

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

35 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

 

I am talking about a system that promotes equality of opportunity.

We would all like that. Most of us have contributed and agree. Any ideas? 

[DKW 86 7,424]

15 hours ago, Mikey said:

I am not rich, I am comfortable. In many ways, that's better.

Agreed.

15 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Waste of a study....us morons have wished we could have been in the lucky sperm club for generations.

Well, like Trump, you would indeed be better off than 99% + of us.

13 hours ago, japantiger said:

Every American gets a free high school education.   Just like many others on this forum; you can work and pay your way thru college.  I did it.  No loans, and certainly no guarantees; other than by my own labor.  I am the product of an all Alabama public education ... am I missing something in how this works?  Guarantees?  And I pursued my MBA the same way; at night after a full day's work and paid for it myself.     

Many did it exactly the same way. Earned a schollie and worked my way thru the rest of it. 

12 hours ago, homersapien said:

I am talking about a system that promotes equality of opportunity.

The discussion about the percentiles is merely parsing the statistics, not about addressing the problem.   (And it's really about the 10 percenter's vs everyone else.)

As homer said, Equal Opportunity does not mean Equal Starting Place. 

Blacks have been held to grossly poorer performing schools over time. They do not receive the same Equality of Opportunity in Education.
There were historically Redlined Neighborhoods. They do not receive the same Equality of Opportunity in Housing.
They were held back due to Race for Promotions, etc. They do not receive the same Equality of Opportunity in Promotion.
Etc etc etc

The list goes on and on. 

[PUB78 1,358]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's exactly what they said attending Irondale elementary back in the 60's.

Only it wasn't true for black kids.

You are also a product of your heritage.  Just like all of us. 

And lose the hubris, you're not the only one who put themselves through school - try a steel mill.

Did you work in a steel mill while going to college or during the summers? I worked in a stone plant for 2 years while attending community college before heading to Auburn.

[homersapien 11,373]

8 hours ago, PUB78 said:

Did you work in a steel mill while going to college or during the summers? I worked in a stone plant for 2 years while attending community college before heading to Auburn.

I never worked and attended school at the same time.  I always took a quarter off - sometimes the winter quarter - and worked. 

That worked best for me, especially considering I was working in B'ham and going to school in Auburn.

[AFTiger 282]

Remember, the government redistributed wealth and destroyed the black family. Be careful of your wishes. 

[japantiger 4,051]

12 hours ago, homersapien said:

The fact that in our society, most successful people had things "going for them" they don't appreciate.

For example, I was fortunate enough personally to have had contacts through my family that led me to profitable job offers- even if they were s***ty miserable jobs, they paid well.  Regardless it that's the sort of advantage that comes with socio-economic status.  It's a distinct advantage for those who are blessed with it.   (Or in the case of race, are "allowed" it by our system, eventually.)

Bottom line, our political/economic policies have a huge influence on individual opportunity for those who aren't born into it. 

 

 

Perhaps you and your buddies then should pay reparations to all blacks that you oppressed in Birmingham.  You could start the GoFundMe ... me, I begged for jobs with all the other poor kids; black and white.

[Mikey 16,603]

10 hours ago, PUB78 said:

Did you work in a steel mill while going to college or during the summers? I worked in a stone plant for 2 years while attending community college before heading to Auburn.

I did. Worked at McWane pipe company in B'ham for nine months while financially recovering from the birth of our first child, which required more than normal medical expenses. I was so glad when September came and I could return to Auburn University. I was concerned that I'd get badly burned by the molten iron while working there. Pay was great though, and good guys to work with.

[I_M4_AU 7,838]

20 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Except some, such as POTUS, are no longer susceptible to being hit over the head. Which would be fine if they were not able to use that to dictate policy in a manner that does not actually benefit their fellow-citizens in any way. That is what Tex was getting at with not allowing politicians to become lobbyists once they are out of office and such. That is also a motivation behind campaign finance reform.

There is not a French Revolution being suggested here as far as I can tell. 

 

I can’t remember a President, in my lifetime, that has dictated policy that was beneficial to all its citizens.  I get the “hate Trump” thing, but like any other President, you have to adjust to the policies that are dictated.  If a majority of the Electoral College agrees with you assessment, some other President will dictated policy that a lot of citizens will disagree with.  In the mean time, adjust to the policies.  I know it sounds simplistic, but what other choice is there.  As Jimmy Buffett says; you only have two choices-having fun or freaking out.

To the lobbyist statement; its interesting that a Freshman Congresswoman has suggested a cost of living increase and if she doesn’t get it she will have to revert to the lobbyists to make ends meet.  She’s the only one on that train, even her party’s leader is not pushing for it.

My perspective is family first. 

21 hours ago, McLoofus said:

That's just the thing. Hope is very very different than the guarantees that some others are making in this thread. And what they are also willfully oblivious to are the factors that stand in the way of hope becoming reality.

@japantigerhas a good take on this.  It is what we have to do to see our dreams become a reality, even though it is not guaranteed. What other choice do you have?

I’m on the other end of all of this.  I retired from a job I loved and know that if I hadn’t worked so hard, I wouldn’t have been hired to do the job in the first place.  Looking back, I can easily see hundreds of decision I made that, in the long run, were the best decision to make even though I wasn’t sure it was the correct decision at the time.

Many of these decisions were not based on how hard I worked or my education, but based on the policies of either government or the corporations in which I was employed.  There are a lot of mind fields out there.

Flexibility is the key to AirPower and Happy Father’s Day.

[I_M4_AU 7,838]

18 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Folks, I dont mean to sound like an ass, but some of us may have just lost our job and/or maybe our career tho being rated the best in our position in a company of 4000. 

If I am singing the Internationale' a little too loudly, it is because I know first hand that a lifetime of working your ass off, and playing by the rules can go up in smoke in an afternoon.

 

I’m sorry to hear this.  I have gone through a similar situation and I know that “they” can never take your education and experience from you.  If you’re going through h3ll, keep on going.  Maybe you can get through before the devil even knows you’re there.  Good luck.

[AU64 10,122]

A factor that I have not seen explored is the demographics of the inequities.  I would expect a 19 year old fresh out of HS to be in the bottom 10% ….or pick some percentage and do better as the person continues his/her education or develops a skill. The opportunities are there if the ambition is there.   Might be interesting to see the distribution chart for age groups...….

and damn guys like Dell and Zuckerberg and Jobs and Sam Walton for working hard and screwing up the distribution chart...... I could have been rich if not for them.....

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

20 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

As homer said, Equal Opportunity does not mean Equal Starting Place. 

Blacks have been held to grossly poorer performing schools over time. They do not receive the same Equality of Opportunity in Education.
There were historically Redlined Neighborhoods. They do not receive the same Equality of Opportunity in Housing.
They were held back due to Race for Promotions, etc. They do not receive the same Equality of Opportunity in Promotion.
Etc etc etc

The list goes on and on. 

Are you promoting Equal Starting Place?  Equal Opportunity has failed miserably  according to you and Brother Homer?

Great opportunity is alive and well for anyone in America of any color, sex, Etc. etc etc.

[DKW 86 7,424]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Are you promoting Equal Starting Place?  Equal Opportunity has failed miserably  according to you and Brother Homer?

Great opportunity is alive and well for anyone in America of any color, sex, Etc. etc etc.

Are you saying:

1) That there are equal starting places for everyone?
2) That everyone also has the the same opportunities? 

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

Are you saying:

1) That there are equal starting places for everyone?
2) That everyone also has the the same opportunities? 

I was very clear David

[Grumps 3,704]

On 6/15/2019 at 7:47 AM, McLoofus said:

It's not a partisan issue. The fact that people like you think it is is one reason why we will continue to live in an oligarchy masquerading as democracy.

It's not about redistribution of wealth. It's about removing the mechanisms that the uber wealthy use to dictate policy (almost always in service of further enriching themselves and their stockholders).

Jesus Christ. A very much not left but very sane person already laid this out in very plain terms but y'all would rather cut off your noses to spite your faces than even think about this rationally for a second. Not that this subject is any different than any other in that regard.

You barely addressed my post. We agree on so much and you don't even see it. I completely agree with you that some of the uber wealthy (and the government) often use their wealth and power to maintain their wealth and power in a way that intentionally hurts others. You and I should both be working to correct that. Do you see the difference in working to reduce poverty versus working to reduce income inequality? They are not the same thing. I certainly may be wrong, but, based on what politicians in both parties are discussing, income inequality IS a partisan issue. I agree with you that poverty isn't a partisan issue.

[homersapien 11,373]

On 6/16/2019 at 9:45 AM, japantiger said:

Perhaps you and your buddies then should pay reparations to all blacks that you oppressed in Birmingham.  You could start the GoFundMe ... me, I begged for jobs with all the other poor kids; black and white.

We actually had one black kid working with us.  He was hired on because by 1970, the company had finally created a black supervisor due to civil rights pressure.  Like I said, it took a connection to get hired on there for temporary work.  I was fortunate that my mother knew the superintendent of the operation.

You truly are unwilling to face the truth about the suppression of black people in Alabama and Birmingham.  At least I have the personal integrity to face that truth. 

You don't. 

[homersapien 11,373]

On 6/16/2019 at 8:56 AM, AFTiger said:

Remember, the government redistributed wealth and destroyed the black family. Be careful of your wishes. 

That's a really stupid post.