homersapien 11,393 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/if-republicans-stay-loyal-to-trump-theyll-be-implicated-in-the-moral-decay-of-our-politics/2019/10/07/43fe415a-e925-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html (Emphasis mine) When it comes to President Trump, it is increasingly difficult to distinguish between a political strategy and a nervous breakdown. His tweeted trash talk, his meandering stream of consciousness media availabilities and his shameless embrace of sleaziness are not the signs of a healthy mind. Trump’s followers might eventually look up to find they were actors in someone else’s delusion. But Trump’s recent self-defenses at least clarify his ambitions as an ethicist. Concerning the Ukraine scandal, the president is not seeking forgiveness for a failure in judgment or even trying to change the subject. He boldly asks Americans to accept that his actions — pressuring a foreign power to investigate a domestic political rival — were good and proper. “I don’t care about [Joe] Biden’s campaign,” Trump insists, “but I do care about corruption.” And there was “tremendous corruption with Biden.” Trump is effectively setting a new standard of political morality and requiring his supporters to defend it. He is asking elected Republicans, in particular, to agree with his claim that a practice uniformly viewed as corruption in the past is actually an example of fighting corruption now. That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right. Philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre’s idea of “incommensurability” strikes me as relevant here. If all moral claims are merely “emotive” — statements about ourselves rather than the nature of reality — then there is no way to argue between them. The statement that “stealing is wrong” can be debated. The statement “I feel that stealing is wrong” is not subject to rational dispute. Someone else could simply assert, “I feel that stealing is right,” and the argument would be at a stalemate. Trump is the emotivist par excellence. He holds no objective, abstract beliefs about the meaning of justice or duty. He approves of things that help him and disapproves of things that hurt him. There is no other moral grounding. Yet he makes his assertions with utter confidence. The president currently claims that asking a dependent government to dig up dirt on a political rival is a good thing, even when it involves the implication of extortion. He makes no argument about why the traditional definition of corruption has changed. He feels no need. The shift is in his interest. And that is enough to require the assent of his followers. Elected Republicans, as a result, are looking mighty uncomfortable. Mouthing the words that Trump wants from them — saying that corruption is really anti-corruption — would mean sounding like a fool and surrendering what remains of their political honor. Some, like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), have lamely claimed that Trump was really making a joke. Because, you know, presidential corruption is normally such a laugh riot. But Trump has insisted on his own seriousness. Rubio and the rest must swallow the gelatinous pile of offal Trump gives them — all of it — or they are no longer in the club. Republicans are being called to follow their leader down a relativist rabbit hole. Trump is not only asking them to accept his arguments on policy matters such as building a wall or provoking a trade war. To be loyal foot soldiers, they must affirm that morality means what Trump says it means — even when it violates their clearest instincts. They know, deep down, that if a Democratic president had asked France or China for help in destroying a prominent Republican rival, they would be in a fever pitch of outrage. But, in the Trump era, this isn’t supposed to matter anymore. Consistency means nothing. Principle means nothing. Character means nothing. It only matters who wins. Many Republicans would dearly like to say: What Trump did is wrong, but it doesn’t rise to an impeachable offense. There are two problems with this approach: First, Trump will not regard this as evidence of sufficient loyalty; he demands full approval. And, second, I imagine that most of the founders would regard Trump’s act — inviting a foreign country to influence an American election — as the definition of an impeachable offense. If their intent means anything, it means Trump is seriously corrupt. So we are left with positions that can’t be reconciled. Trump honestly seems to have no moral objection to what he did. His opponents are left sputtering, “But this has always been seen as serious corruption!” The president simply doesn’t care. And, if his GOP supporters remain loyal, they will be further implicated in the moral decay of American politics. Michael Gerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Sue 325 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, homersapien said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/if-republicans-stay-loyal-to-trump-theyll-be-implicated-in-the-moral-decay-of-our-politics/2019/10/07/43fe415a-e925-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html (Emphasis mine) When it comes to President Trump, it is increasingly difficult to distinguish between a political strategy and a nervous breakdown. His tweeted trash talk, his meandering stream of consciousness media availabilities and his shameless embrace of sleaziness are not the signs of a healthy mind. Trump’s followers might eventually look up to find they were actors in someone else’s delusion. But Trump’s recent self-defenses at least clarify his ambitions as an ethicist. Concerning the Ukraine scandal, the president is not seeking forgiveness for a failure in judgment or even trying to change the subject. He boldly asks Americans to accept that his actions — pressuring a foreign power to investigate a domestic political rival — were good and proper. “I don’t care about [Joe] Biden’s campaign,” Trump insists, “but I do care about corruption.” And there was “tremendous corruption with Biden.” Trump is effectively setting a new standard of political morality and requiring his supporters to defend it. He is asking elected Republicans, in particular, to agree with his claim that a practice uniformly viewed as corruption in the past is actually an example of fighting corruption now. That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right. Philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre’s idea of “incommensurability” strikes me as relevant here. If all moral claims are merely “emotive” — statements about ourselves rather than the nature of reality — then there is no way to argue between them. The statement that “stealing is wrong” can be debated. The statement “I feel that stealing is wrong” is not subject to rational dispute. Someone else could simply assert, “I feel that stealing is right,” and the argument would be at a stalemate. Trump is the emotivist par excellence. He holds no objective, abstract beliefs about the meaning of justice or duty. He approves of things that help him and disapproves of things that hurt him. There is no other moral grounding. Yet he makes his assertions with utter confidence. The president currently claims that asking a dependent government to dig up dirt on a political rival is a good thing, even when it involves the implication of extortion. He makes no argument about why the traditional definition of corruption has changed. He feels no need. The shift is in his interest. And that is enough to require the assent of his followers. Elected Republicans, as a result, are looking mighty uncomfortable. Mouthing the words that Trump wants from them — saying that corruption is really anti-corruption — would mean sounding like a fool and surrendering what remains of their political honor. Some, like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), have lamely claimed that Trump was really making a joke. Because, you know, presidential corruption is normally such a laugh riot. But Trump has insisted on his own seriousness. Rubio and the rest must swallow the gelatinous pile of offal Trump gives them — all of it — or they are no longer in the club. Republicans are being called to follow their leader down a relativist rabbit hole. Trump is not only asking them to accept his arguments on policy matters such as building a wall or provoking a trade war. To be loyal foot soldiers, they must affirm that morality means what Trump says it means — even when it violates their clearest instincts. They know, deep down, that if a Democratic president had asked France or China for help in destroying a prominent Republican rival, they would be in a fever pitch of outrage. But, in the Trump era, this isn’t supposed to matter anymore. Consistency means nothing. Principle means nothing. Character means nothing. It only matters who wins. Many Republicans would dearly like to say: What Trump did is wrong, but it doesn’t rise to an impeachable offense. There are two problems with this approach: First, Trump will not regard this as evidence of sufficient loyalty; he demands full approval. And, second, I imagine that most of the founders would regard Trump’s act — inviting a foreign country to influence an American election — as the definition of an impeachable offense. If their intent means anything, it means Trump is seriously corrupt. So we are left with positions that can’t be reconciled. Trump honestly seems to have no moral objection to what he did. His opponents are left sputtering, “But this has always been seen as serious corruption!” The president simply doesn’t care. And, if his GOP supporters remain loyal, they will be further implicated in the moral decay of American politics. Michael Gerson The Dems are already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,393 Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 31 minutes ago, Tiger Sue said: The Dems are already there. It's been said that brevity is the soul of wit - but in your case - not so much. Admit it Sue, you know Trump has no moral or ethical standards except self-service. You just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Sue 325 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, homersapien said: It's been said that brevity is the soul of wit - but in your case - not so much. Admit it Sue, you know Trump has no moral or ethical standards except self-service. You just don't care. You are entitled to your often warped opinion of people you don't even know. I have repeatedly said I am not a fan of Trump the man but he was better choice than Hillary. Now he is POTUS, has kept many of his promises and I support him as long as he is our duly elected POTUS. I think that's positive for me to do as compared to the now three years of whining by his haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,822 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 when trump goes down there will be a few more go down with him to join his wonderful friends already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,393 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 20 hours ago, Tiger Sue said: You are entitled to your often warped opinion of people you don't even know. I have repeatedly said I am not a fan of Trump the man but he was better choice than Hillary. Now he is POTUS, has kept many of his promises and I support him as long as he is our duly elected POTUS. I think that's positive for me to do as compared to the now three years of whining by his haters. Does that response mean you do believe Trump has high ethical and moral standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Sue 325 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, homersapien said: Does that response mean you do believe Trump has high ethical and moral standards? Not the best but no worse than a lot of other leading politicians and even some posters here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,393 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, Tiger Sue said: Not the best but no worse than a lot of other leading politicians and even some posters here. BS. You get all verklempt about Omar having an affair with a staffer and then come back with that weak s***? Porn star Stormy Daniels is taking a victory lap after Michael Cohen's guilty plea. Here's a timeline of Trump's many marriages and rumored affairs. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-melania-stormy-daniels-affairs-marriages-timeline-2018-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyAU 3,634 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 When was our political system not in moral decay? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,393 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, johnnyAU said: When was our political system not in moral decay? 🤔 Last administration. You know, about 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,652 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Many of the same people trying to impeach Trump are just as nasty as he is. They once took his money and shared drinks with him. Dined with him and courted his friendship and "sponsorship". Birds of a feather flock together...until the hawk shows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyAU 3,634 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, homersapien said: Last administration. You know, about 3 years ago. Sure it was. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,393 Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 48 minutes ago, johnnyAU said: Sure it was. 😉 All administrations have the occasional scandal, but compare the number of indictments and scandals etc. of the Obama administration compared to Trump and tell me which indicates a "moral decay". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUB78 1,358 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 1:12 PM, Tiger Sue said: The Dems are already there. The Dimocrats have done all they can in the last 11 years to destroy this country and heavily contributed to the moral decline we see happening in this nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,822 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 11:46 AM, autigeremt said: Many of the same people trying to impeach Trump are just as nasty as he is. They once took his money and shared drinks with him. Dined with him and courted his friendship and "sponsorship". Birds of a feather flock together...until the hawk shows up. hey give us a link or give us a list of how anyone of those wanting to impeach trump as just as bad as he is. lots of repubs and christian leaders are beginning to turn on trump but i would love to hear your names and what makes them as nasty as trump. but hey i applaud you for admitting trump is nasty. most of your side would die before they admitted that........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,822 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, PUB78 said: The Dimocrats have done all they can in the last 11 years to destroy this country and heavily contributed to the moral decline we see happening in this nation. sorry but that is a lie and a big one. right now trump and company have set the record for being the most corrupt administration in the history of american politics. maybe you should get some facts before you run your mouth. google is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,816 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, aubiefifty said: google is your friend. Bull Shet fidy. Your entire post is BS. Unload on me then go to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,822 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said: Bull Shet fidy. Your entire post is BS. Unload on me then go to bed. you telling me i have turned into you salty? the horror suga..........i stll love ya. but just a bare minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,816 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, aubiefifty said: i stll love ya. but just a bare minimum. We still love you fidy. Bet it has turned a bit Autumn like in Anniston. Beautiful area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,056 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I’m sure the democrats don’t want us to steal that honor from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 3 hours ago, SaltyTiger said: Bull Shet fidy. Your entire post is BS. Unload on me then go to bed. Last time I heard that line I was watching..... Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,431 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I got a poser for the group here: The Republicans went to Nixon and told him it was over. The Republicans seem to be on the verge of doing it again with Trump. Is anyone under the delusion that the Democrats would do the same with one of theirs? Really? I submit, after watching Chappaquiddick, Clinton and Lewinsky, Gore and the Chinese Monks, 2009 and Obama and Holder didnt prosecute a damn soul on Wall Street, The VA DP and the entire Black Face and Rape Scandal there, that it really wouldnt matter what any Democrat ever did. The Democrats would never, ever allow one of their own to ever go down. No matter how guilty (Chappaquiddick) EVERYONE KNOWS THEY ARE the Dems and usually the Sycophants in the Press are going to almost always eat the s*** sandwich and support their guys. As icky as it is for me to say, as a Justice Democrat Dues Paying Member...Money gone to Bernie and now Warren, at least at the end of the day, the Republicans seem to be coming to their senses and doing the right thing, as they have done in the past. I hold no delusion that at the end of the day that 5 or more here on this Forum would defend Weinstein, Epstein, hell even Hitler if he had a D after his name simply because...they were donors or supporters or members of the Mainstream-Corporate Democrat Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUB78 1,358 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 8 hours ago, aubiefifty said: sorry but that is a lie and a big one. right now trump and company have set the record for being the most corrupt administration in the history of american politics. maybe you should get some facts before you run your mouth. google is your friend. No, you are wrong. The agendas that the Democrats are pushing and supporting is morally and spiritually bankrupt. I don’t care for Trump personally, but he has protected true American values as well as religious freedoms . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUB78 1,358 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 8 hours ago, SaltyTiger said: We still love you fidy. Bet it has turned a bit Autumn like in Anniston. Beautiful area. Fifty is probably a Ben Little groupie. Hopefully he will be removed from office again for ethics violations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevon67 2,368 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Brad_ATX said: Last time I heard that line I was watching..... Never mind. A Jack Horner production?😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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