bigbird 60,580 Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, McLoofus said: Why isn't "incorrect perception based on heightened scrutiny and awareness and larger sample size" an option? Isn't that what "more cameras and media attention so we're seeing it more often," is? 1 hour ago, McLoofus said: "Your guy is screwed up. What are your thoughts?" Naive at best to think that's going to yield the results you seek. Why is it "your guy" ? Trump certainly isn't my guy and I'm more than open to another. Underwhelmed by all options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, bigbird said: Isn't that what "more cameras and media attention so we're seeing it more often," is? Evidently. Mea culpa. Quote Why is it "your guy" ? Trump certainly isn't my guy and I'm more than open to another. Didn't say Trump is your guy. I have a lot more respect for you than that. You did say earlier that you wish "they" had come up with a candidate other than Biden. So I'm going on the assumption that he won't be getting your vote. Could be wrong. And if this thread is dedicated to the subset of the forum who are still mulling a Biden vote- but who aren't actually Biden supporters- then again, mea culpa. I'm not sure who hasn't already self-identified as pro-Trump (already not voting for Biden), anti-Biden (already not voting for Biden), or pro-Biden/Any Dem Will Do ("our guy") at this point. But if that's the group you're looking for opinions from- the people who don't fall into any of those groups- my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird 60,580 Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Evidently. Mea culpa. Didn't say Trump is your guy. I have a lot more respect for you than that. You did say earlier that you wish "they" had come up with a candidate other than Biden. So I'm going on the assumption that he won't be getting your vote. Could be wrong. And if this thread is dedicated to the subset of the forum who are still mulling a Biden vote- but who aren't actually Biden supporters- then again, mea culpa. I'm not sure who hasn't already self-identified as pro-Trump (already not voting for Biden), anti-Biden (already not voting for Biden), or pro-Biden/Any Dem Will Do ("our guy") at this point. But if that's the group you're looking for opinions from- the people who don't fall into any of those groups- my bad. It's kinda like 2016. There were many that didn't vote Trump or Clinton. I'd love to have a reason for Biden that isn't, well he's not Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, bigbird said: It's kinda like 2016. There were many that didn't vote Trump or Clinton. I'd love to have a reason for Biden that isn't, well he's not Trump. As would I. As it stands, though, it's more than reason enough. As it was in 2016. Going into this, Biden was, at best, my 5th pick for the Democratic nomination. He is now, by default, my unquestioned pick for the presidency. And that is not a party over country thing. I have never felt less affection for the Democratic party in my life. The ship has sailed on worrying whether or not he's the guy we want. He's the guy we have. Which, to your point, is evidently how a lot of Trump voters felt in 2016. It's kind of like that joke about two people running from the bear. Joe Biden doesn't have to be faster than the bear. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird 60,580 Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, McLoofus said: As would I. As it stands, though, it's more than reason enough. As it was in 2016. Going into this, Biden was, at best, my 5th pick for the Democratic nomination. He is now, by default, my unquestioned pick for the presidency. The ship has sailed on worrying whether or not he's the guy we want. He's the guy we have. Which, to your point, is evidently how a lot of Trump voters felt in 2016. It's kind of like that joke about two people running from the bear. Joe Biden doesn't have to be faster than the bear. IMO Pretty much. However, I think some of those that held their noses and voted for Trump (wasn't my vote) due to HC might be convinced to vote for Biden. That's why I think open, rational and logical discussion should be encouraged. Dems should want to convince independent voters to vote for Biden. We are listening but no one is saying anything but, "well, I'm not Trump". There wasn't a single candidate beside the "free everything" group that I could tell you their platform. That's a problem. The idea that one should vote for the one candidate because they're not the other only works for the fringe of the parties. Those in the middle want to know how their perceived priorities will be addressed. For 4 years it's been let's get rid of Trump. Great! I'm fine with that, so whatcha got? So it's gonna be Biden? Great! What are your ideas, how are you gonna implement them, and how are you going to work and generate compromise across the parties? I get it, you're not Trump. Now what? There are issues with Biden. One that will be at the forefront is his age and cognition. Why couldn't we openly discuss that? Why must it be turned into, "yeah, well Trump's an idiot too"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyAU 3,668 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, bigbird said: It's kinda like 2016. There were many that didn't vote Trump or Clinton. Yep, including me. Yet I'm also branded a Trump supporter as are many who did the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, bigbird said: I'd love to have a reason for Biden that isn't, well he's not Trump. .....there is no doubt in my mind that he is fully capable of appointing fully qualified people to his administration. There is no doubt in my mind that he will welcome a wide range of potentially conflicting perspectives from these people, discuss their pros and cons, and than make a rational decision based on that discussion. Especially when it comes to healthcare. There is no doubt in my mind that he will emphasize the well-being and interests of the common working man and women instead of continuing to stack the deck in favor of the rich. There is no doubt in my mind that he will rebuild our relationships and global reputation, restore respect to the US, and promote global democracy. There is no doubt in my mind that he will place the security and interests of the country above his personal interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird 60,580 Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, homersapien said: .....there is no doubt in my mind that he is fully capable of appointing fully qualified people to his administration. There is no doubt in my mind that he will welcome a wide range of potentially conflicting perspectives from these people, discuss their pros and cons, and than make a rational decision based on that discussion. Especially when it comes to healthcare. There is no doubt in my mind that he will emphasize the well-being and interests of the common working man and women instead of continuing to stack the deck in favor of the rich. There is no doubt in my mind that he will rebuild our relationships and global reputation, restore respect to the US, and promote global democracy. There is no doubt in my mind that he will place the security and interests of the country above his personal interests. Fair enough. If you don't mind, why do you feel so confident in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowebb11 9,429 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, homersapien said: There is no doubt in my mind that he will emphasize the well-being and interests of the common working man and women instead of continuing to stack the deck in favor of the rich. Like his son, Hunter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFriction 1,179 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Political views aside, we’ve had more than one president have dementia during their presidency. At least one of those presidents served two terms, and was objectively an effective president. He surrounded himself with a good cabinet, and things were able to run smoothly. That president was Reagan. If Joe can do that, it becomes a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevon67 2,368 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, McLoofus said: As would I. As it stands, though, it's more than reason enough. As it was in 2016. Going into this, Biden was, at best, my 5th pick for the Democratic nomination. He is now, by default, my unquestioned pick for the presidency. And that is not a party over country thing. I have never felt less affection for the Democratic party in my life. The ship has sailed on worrying whether or not he's the guy we want. He's the guy we have. Which, to your point, is evidently how a lot of Trump voters felt in 2016. It's kind of like that joke about two people running from the bear. Joe Biden doesn't have to be faster than the bear. IMO Sentence 3 sooo agree, about both parties👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 The sad part is that there are so few places that it’s even going to matter. ( General, of course) maybe 6-8 true swing states, if that many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, alexava said: The sad part is that there are so few places that it’s even going to matter. ( General, of course) maybe 6-8 true swing states, if that many. This year: Florida Ohio Pennsylvania Michigan Wisconsin Arizona Nevada That's about it off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird 60,580 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 @McLoofus & @homersapien this article touches a little on some of our thoughts from yesterday. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/joe-biden-has-cured-democrats-of-their-belief-in-a-savior-president.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, bigbird said: @McLoofus & @homersapien this article touches a little on some of our thoughts from yesterday. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/joe-biden-has-cured-democrats-of-their-belief-in-a-savior-president.html Excellent piece. Thank you for sharing it. While I am disappointed in the Democratic party and I don't think that Biden was either the best or the most electable of the entire pool, his nomination over Bernie- and the way it has happened since Bloomberg dropped out and endorsed him- represents a certain unity and pragmatism that we typically expect more of from the other side. Which I have bemoaned for 4 years. Yes, I'm riding a fence here. My crotch hurts. Hopefully the article better addresses your and other independent voters' concerns about Biden's viability as a candidate. While he alone is not a man capable of greatness, perhaps the possibility of a collective effort from more unified Executive and Legislative branches- minus the bombast or extreme leftism of some of the alternatives- would be attractive to independents who just want to see Washington function somewhat normally and less excrement-ally. As for what Dems think (independently of what we want others to think), I thought this line very nicely summed up what many of us are feeling: Quote The Biden 2020 campaign isn’t about following its nominal leader, or even listening to him; it’s about the party pushing him over the line collectively I think maybe @Brad_ATX has touched on this notion a bit (if not in this thread, then elsewhere). As for (at least my) mentions of Trump, perhaps the second part of the above quote is a less contentious way of expressing that idea. I realize that quote focuses more on the idea of a team effort, both to get to the White House and to live in it, and that "beating Trump" isn't the thrust of the article. But ultimately, it's less about getting Biden in the White House than getting the Democratic party in the White House. One thing I thought about yesterday was Dubya and how he was equal parts figurehead and puppet. I didn't care for his handlers and I can imagine a lot of folks wouldn't care for Joe's, but it's not an inefficient way to accomplish things in government, it seems. Thanks again for sharing the article. Really good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 3 hours ago, bigbird said: @McLoofus & @homersapien this article touches a little on some of our thoughts from yesterday. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/joe-biden-has-cured-democrats-of-their-belief-in-a-savior-president.html Good read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 18 hours ago, bigbird said: Fair enough. If you don't mind, why do you feel so confident in that? Because there is really no reason not to. Unlike Trump, there's nothing about his record or background to suggest otherwise. He comes from humble origins and hasn't forgotten it. He has consistently been on the right side of major issues, such as civil rights and healthcare. He has extensive and successful experience in government, serving as chairman of both the Foreign Relations Committee and Judiciary Committees. Unlike Trump, who runs his business and his administration like a mafia don, Biden knows how government is supposed to work and how important it is to appoint competent people to run it. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Joe-Biden https://www.biography.com/political-figure/joe-biden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 18 hours ago, Gowebb11 said: Like his son, Hunter? First don't fall for the mud slinging propagated by Trump and the GOP regarding Hunter Biden's job with Burisma. Everything they have implied about it has been patently false. Hunter is responsible for his own life. There is no evidence that his father had anything to do with Hunter accepting the Burisma job. According to Joe Biden, he didn't intervene to prevent it because he was still overwhelmed from dealing with the death of his older son Beau. I think that was a mistake and had he been thinking of a presidential run, perhaps he would have tried to intervene. But there is absolutely no evidence that he promoted or orchestrated Hunter taking that position. Kids getting jobs because of their fathers status or position is as common as anything else in the human experience. (Look at the Trump kids for example.) Finally, Hunter Biden's position has nothing to do with US policies that favor the rich over the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 5 hours ago, bigbird said: @McLoofus & @homersapien this article touches a little on some of our thoughts from yesterday. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/joe-biden-has-cured-democrats-of-their-belief-in-a-savior-president.html Thanks! "....the prospective nominee’s camp knows he’ll be judged by the helping hands he surrounds himself with, and that he’ll need to maintain a connection to all the party’s factions, if he reaches the Oval Office. It’s not him, in other words—it’s us. " It will be good to drop the narcissist and revert back to a man who merely possesses the required healthy ego to be POTUS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countoff 331 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 12:27 PM, homersapien said: Man that's delusional. Trump is not smart, a good leader or charismatic. He's ignorant, a divider and a demagogue. Obama was the last POTUS who was smart, a good leader and charismatic. Trump plays on xenophobia and racism. As for leadership, that's ridiculous - no one believes a word he says. (see covid 19 crisis) A leader is capable and willing to present bad news and outline a plan for dealing with it. Trump doesn't push "strong economic policies". He provides tax breaks to the 1%, increasing deficits everyone will have to deal with. Trump is merely lucky to have inherited a good economy that was created by Obama. And seriously, "resists politically correct lip service"? WTF is that supposed to mean? He doesn't resist anyone who sucks up to him, in fact, he demands it. He is a self-serving con man that doesn't give a s*** about the country. It's all about him. He will be remembered for being the most unqualified and corrupt president in modern history. I just don't understand how people are so willing or gullible to accept Trump's gaslighting. Wow. All this wisdom you have regurgitated from CNN and MSNBC was so enlightning I couldn't help but change my mind. Now I'm gonna vote for the socialist Sanders! Ohhh no wait! Unlike you I would rather not become one of the.... And BTW... your reading comprehension skills need a lot of work. I clearly stated that none of the candidates (including Trump) have all the components necessary to be a good president. Those that have the skills would never consider running for president. And lastly, I thought Obama had a lot of class but he was a horrible president. He kinda reminded me of Neville Chamberlain. (psst...Hey Homey! I know you don't know who Neville Chamberlain was. Perhaps you should read about him. It might help your reading skills) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, countoff said: Wow. All this wisdom you have regurgitated from CNN and MSNBC was so enlightning I couldn't help but change my mind. Now I'm gonna vote for the socialist Sanders! Ohhh no wait! Unlike you I would rather not become one of the.... And BTW... your reading comprehension skills need a lot of work. I clearly stated that none of the candidates (including Trump) have all the components necessary to be a good president. Those that have the skills would never consider running for president. And lastly, I thought Obama had a lot of class but he was a horrible president. He kinda reminded me of Neville Chamberlain. (psst...Hey Homey! I know you don't know who Neville Chamberlain was. Perhaps you should read about him. It might help your reading skills) That's extremely ironic coming from a Trump cultist. Go back to the trash talk forum where you belong kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Oh, and considering how Trump has his nose up Kim Jong Un and Putin's ass, the "Neville Chamberlain" charge is a particularly inane piece of idiocy coming from a Trump cultist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countoff 331 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, homersapien said: Oh, and considering how Trump has his nose up Kim Jong Un and Putin's ass, the "Neville Chamberlain" charge is a particularly inane piece of idiocy coming from a Trump cultist. Homey??!! What is it with your reading comprehension? Did you graduate from high school? I clearly stated that I don't like Trump and I wish there was another reasonable option. I just support his general policies. You are so full of irrational hate, you cannot think clearly. Also, I would like to point out that people like you are your own worst enemy. There are many people who cast their vote for Trump but they are not really voting for Trump. They are voting against people like you. They don't like the idea of a bunch of children thinking they can get their way by throwing temper tantrums. The election was three years ago. You lost. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,513 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, countoff said: Homey??!! What is it with your reading comprehension? Did you graduate from high school? I clearly stated that I don't like Trump and I wish there was another reasonable option. I just support his general policies. You are so full of irrational hate, you cannot think clearly. Also, I would like to point out that people like you are your own worst enemy. There are many people who cast their vote for Trump but they are not really voting for Trump. They are voting against people like you. They don't like the idea of a bunch of children thinking they can get their way by throwing temper tantrums. The election was three years ago. You lost. Get over it. Back to the trash talk thread kid. You are making a fool of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,481 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 4:54 PM, homersapien said: There is no doubt in my mind that he will emphasize the well-being and interests of the common working man and women instead of continuing to stack the deck in favor of the rich. Sorry, No Sale. If he wants to support the middle class, he wouldnt have sold out to Big Banking decades ago. They dont openly call him the Senator from MBNA for nothing. I dont recall anyone referring to or pointing to what he has ever done to support the middle class. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/13/joe-biden-hosts-wall-street-donors-at-ny-fundraisers-as-campaign-struggles.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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