Anti Vaxxer Honor Roll

[SaturdayGT 719]

I'd be curious as to who stayed home during covid...once they got vaxed, how many went on with their lives....once they found out you can catch and spread the disease while vaxed....who went  back into quarantine?..

[wdefromtx 3,159]

7 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

I'd be curious as to who stayed home during covid...once they got vaxed, how many went on with their lives....once they found out you can catch and spread the disease while vaxed....who went  back into quarantine?..

Life’s too short to stay quarantined! lol 

[AU9377 4,950]

12 hours ago, Elephant Tipper said:

Perhaps you overlooked this in my comments. Because of the mass hysteria about COVID-19, this concept is moot now, shouldn't be, but it is.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but prior to 2020, a physician would feel free to give approval to the healthiest in declining the vaccine.  In the news, not sure if true, our Navy SEALS are being forced to be vaccinated or face expulsion, which may bring exit visas to many, voluntarily or otherwise.  We'll see what happens.  Forcing the vaccine on SEALS is ridiculous.  This is the result of politics, not science.

The current climate makes the public think that COVID-19 is as debilitating/lethal as ebola which is untrue.  It isn't, especially among the healthy, but the fear mongers have created their niche in the news.  Those who are healthy face infinitesimal or no risk from the disease.

As though they aren't required to be vaccinated against other things? There have been over 680,000 deaths in the United States alone from Covid-19.   Compare these things.   2,996 people died on 9/11 as a result of terrorists.  We are over 2,000 deaths per day right now from Covid, yet it isn't a big deal right?  There are also impacts from Covid that do not include death.  The point is that, even in the healthiest of individuals, the risk of long term negative impact from taking the vaccine is FAR outweighed by the risk of long term lingering effects of Covid.  The vaccines are safe. Period.

[AU9377 4,950]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

Life’s too short to stay quarantined! lol 

In this part of the country, not many stayed quarantined for very long.  It is still important for many to avoid closed in spaces for long periods of time, like church or weddings etc.   My parents' church is small.  They suspended services for 3 months.  They lost no members during that time.  They resumed services and have lost 9 members since.  It happens.  They have suspended services several times to minimize spread.  They are listening to local doctors, a couple of which are members.  They aren't scared, but they are trying to be smart about the world around them.  Politics is the last thing on their minds.

Edited September 24, 2021 by AU9377

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

9 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

I'd be curious as to who stayed home during covid...once they got vaxed, how many went on with their lives....once they found out you can catch and spread the disease while vaxed....who went  back into quarantine?..

No shock here, but I went on with my life and haven’t looked back.

[homersapien 11,382]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/02/ive-seen-too-much-dying-this-is-vaccine-plea-my-fellow-southerners/

I’ve seen too much dying. This is a vaccine plea to my fellow Southerners.

Rick Boyte

Rick Boyte is the medical director for palliative and supportive care at Forrest General Hospital in Hattiesburg, Miss.

(EXCERPT)

Over the years, I have heard countless patients say something on the order of “give it to me straight, doc, and no sugarcoating.” So here it is: When you choose to remain unvaccinated, you are needlessly risking more than your own life — the people dying in Mississippi could be your loved ones, your neighbors or someone you’ll never know. It is not honorable to invite others to die for your personal opinion or beliefs.

Heroism is risking your life for the sake of others; there is no heroism in risking the lives of others for the sake of self. People are being infected because of recklessness — their own, or someone else’s. I realize that for those who have chosen to remain unvaccinated, reversing that decision will be difficult. It is unfortunate that this stand has become inseparable from personal identity.

Please, do not mistake this for a cause worthy of death. Trust that the vaccines are as safe as possible and that they work. Taking the vaccine during the pandemic is as heroic as donating blood during a natural disaster — and it has potentially a much larger impact on saving lives.

I was once told that a Southerner is someone who will do anything for a stranger if asked but will never do so if told. I am sincerely asking, then. Pleading, really: Become vaccinated if you are eligible. We can turn this around, but no amount of optimism will be enough. We must act now for ourselves, our families, our neighbors and our communities.

[homersapien 11,382]

On 9/24/2021 at 12:57 AM, SaturdayGT said:

I'd be curious as to who stayed home during covid...once they got vaxed, how many went on with their lives....once they found out you can catch and spread the disease while vaxed....who went  back into quarantine?..

I have followed CDC recommendations from the beginning. (Granted the "shut down" was much easier for me since I am retired and live in a very private situation.)

I got the first two doses of the vaccine ASAP.  I will get the booster in November, as per current recommendations. 

(A month or so after my second vaccination I had a thoracotomy with decortication and have a scarred right lung. Thank God I had already been vaccinated because prior to this surgery my right thoracic cavity was full of pus - they drew 2 liters out prior to my surgery and another liter during surgery.)

Post-vaccination and surgery I have behaved pretty much like I used to prior to the pandemic (like going out to eat).  And I avoid crowds, especially indoors.  But I always wear a mask in public, even though most of the people here in SC don't. 

I fully understand I can still get infected, but I am pretty confident I won't have critical symptoms based on current statistical evidence. I feel the vaccinations offer a large degree of protection - just like my flu shots have prevented really bad cases of the flu.  In other words, the vaccinations are doing what they are supposed to do - preventing a catastrophic illness.

I recently visited my family in Birmingham for the first time in a year.  After arriving, I learned that several members of the family who were coming to dinner were not vaccinated.  I got back in my car and drove back home (5 hrs. - through Atlanta.) (My mother remarking that "my" vice-president - Kamala Harris - "refused to take the virus" (a MAGA lie) was the trigger.)

Most of my family probably think I am crazy.  I don't care.  That's the last trip I'll take to see them, at least until they all get vaccinated.

Yea Trump! Separating families all across America!

Edited September 25, 2021 by homersapien

[Elephant Tipper 430]

4 hours ago, AU9377 said:

As though they aren't required to be vaccinated against other things? There have been over 680,000 deaths in the United States alone from Covid-19.   Compare these things.   2,996 people died on 9/11 as a result of terrorists.  We are over 2,000 deaths per day right now from Covid, yet it isn't a big deal right?  There are also impacts from Covid that do not include death.  The point is that, even in the healthiest of individuals, the risk of long term negative impact from taking the vaccine is FAR outweighed by the risk of long term lingering effects of Covid.  The vaccines are safe. Period.

To rebut your statement, a "long-term" study for vaccines is considered more than 5 years and may range to over 10.  The vaccines have been administered for less than one so we don't have any "long-term" information.

What study supports your statement for the healthy not being vaccinated vs being vaccinated ?  There isn't one.

[AU9377 4,950]

8 hours ago, Elephant Tipper said:

To rebut your statement, a "long-term" study for vaccines is considered more than 5 years and may range to over 10.  The vaccines have been administered for less than one so we don't have any "long-term" information.

What study supports your statement for the healthy not being vaccinated vs being vaccinated ?  There isn't one.

What we do know from how vaccines work is that they don't produce long term side effects.  Any rare reaction is usually observed withing hours or days of a vaccine being administered.  I'll post an explanation by a very respected UAB expert below, Paul Goepfert, M.D., director of the Alabama Vaccine Research Clinic.

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12143-three-things-to-know-about-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines

[AU9377 4,950]

8 hours ago, Elephant Tipper said:

To rebut your statement, a "long-term" study for vaccines is considered more than 5 years and may range to over 10.  The vaccines have been administered for less than one so we don't have any "long-term" information.

What study supports your statement for the healthy not being vaccinated vs being vaccinated ?  There isn't one.

How do you define healthy?  There are many people that would consider themselves to be healthy, yet are also at a higher risk due to a long list of things.  I'm not sure what kind of study you want, but there are too many to count that support vaccination as the best method by which to prevent serious sickness, hospitalization and death.  If you believe otherwise at this point, I doubt any amount of reason will change your mind.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

12 hours ago, AU9377 said:

How do you define healthy?  There are many people that would consider themselves to be healthy, yet are also at a higher risk due to a long list of things.  I'm not sure what kind of study you want, but there are too many to count that support vaccination as the best method by which to prevent serious sickness, hospitalization and death.  If you believe otherwise at this point, I doubt any amount of reason will change your mind.

Before responding, I want you to answer two questions: 1) Who should make the decision about what vaccines I receive, the government or my doctor and I ?; 2) Do you regularly vaccinate for the flu ?

Given that this is the weekend, my response may not be prompt but I'll do my best.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Elephant Tipper

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections (medrxiv.org)

This will start to gain traction and challenge the federal vaccine mandate for certain entities. 

Also, if you read the study it touches on the already waning effectiveness of the vaccines, which is something I think @Elephant Tipper made reference to.

Edited September 25, 2021 by wdefromtx

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 339]

On 9/8/2021 at 12:11 PM, homersapien said:

I am far beyond the point of caring about these people.

They certainly don't care about the people they put at risk.

 

I'm wondering if you feel the same way about people who are overweight or don't exercise or eat junk food or don't get enough sleep or any one of about a dozen lifestyle choices that science has long said can lower their immune response and make them more likely to get and then transmit a virus.

If not, why is it just this one thing that is an unpardonable sin?

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 339]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:45 PM, AU9377 said:

How do you define healthy?  There are many people that would consider themselves to be healthy, yet are also at a higher risk due to a long list of things.  I'm not sure what kind of study you want, but there are too many to count that support vaccination as the best method by which to prevent serious sickness, hospitalization and death.  If you believe otherwise at this point, I doubt any amount of reason will change your mind.

Just to be clear, are you saying that there are too many studies to count that support vaccination as the best method by which to prevent serious sickness, hospitalization and death specifically from COVID?  Or are you speaking in general terms?

Because there are almost no studies at all specifically regarding COVID.  It's too new.

There is a decent amount of statistical analysis because it's been such a focus.  But studies are not the same as statistical analysis.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 339]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:38 PM, AU9377 said:

What we do know from how vaccines work is that they don't produce long term side effects.  Any rare reaction is usually observed withing hours or days of a vaccine being administered.  I'll post an explanation by a very respected UAB expert below, Paul Goepfert, M.D., director of the Alabama Vaccine Research Clinic.

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12143-three-things-to-know-about-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines

And yet the L.A. Times printed a story about a woman who has been having side effects for nine months and still counting.

Even the CDC doesn't claim that there is no possibility of long term side effects.  You know why?  Because they (and you, and the doctor you linked to) don't know that.  It hasn't been studied yet.  

I'm sure they are very rare.  I'm sure the math works out much better for people to get the vaccine than not.

But saying stuff like this is part of the reason that you still have people refusing it.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

And yet the L.A. Times printed a story about a woman who has been having side effects for nine months and still counting.

Even the CDC doesn't claim that there is no possibility of long term side effects.  You know why?  Because they (and you, and the doctor you linked to) don't know that.  It hasn't been studied yet.  

I'm sure they are very rare.  I'm sure the math works out much better for people to get the vaccine than not.

But saying stuff like this is part of the reason that you still have people refusing it.

You won't get anywhere trying to bring logic and reasoning to the conversation. Anything other than 0% chance is reason enough to give pause to something when it comes to injecting things into one's body.

[AU9377 4,950]

1 hour ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

And yet the L.A. Times printed a story about a woman who has been having side effects for nine months and still counting.

Even the CDC doesn't claim that there is no possibility of long term side effects.  You know why?  Because they (and you, and the doctor you linked to) don't know that.  It hasn't been studied yet.  

I'm sure they are very rare.  I'm sure the math works out much better for people to get the vaccine than not.

But saying stuff like this is part of the reason that you still have people refusing it.

I don't know that little people with big green eyes won't land from another planet in 2022, but I am comfortable stating that it is incredibly unlikely.

What I linked is not some Youtube video of a quack wanting attention or some random article about some woman in California that believes she is having side effects that shockingly nobody else has experienced out of the billions that have received the shots.  It is a very good explanation about why those side effects have never been see with an administered vaccine and why it likely never will be.

Edited September 28, 2021 by AU9377

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 339]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Anything other than 0% chance is reason enough to give pause to something when it comes to injecting things into one's body.

I agree, but I see the same breach of logic on the anti-vax side.  I haven't seen a rabid anti-vaxxer yet who didn't give all their kids every vaccine that was recommended.  And there's not a 0% chance of vaccine injury with any vaccine.

So why didn't the chance of vaccine injury stop these people from giving their kids the over 30 recommended vaccines by age 18 if anything greater than 0% chance should cause someone to really think about it?  These people didn't even pump the brakes or ask a question...the ones I know, anyway.

And there's nothing yet to suggest that this vaccine is any more dangerous than the routine ones.  The conspiracy theorists don't seem to know that suing drug companies for vaccine injuries hasn't been possible by law since 1986.  They seem to think that is something new just for COVID.

Both sides seem to not be relying much on logic if you ask me.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 339]

2 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I don't know that little people with big green eyes won't land from another planet in 2022, but I am comfortable stating that it is incredibly unlikely.

Would you be comfortable stating that if the L.A. Times had already run a story claiming to have one?

Or is anything inconvenient fake news?

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 339]

3 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I don't know that little people with big green eyes won't land from another planet in 2022, but I am comfortable stating that it is incredibly unlikely.

And you didn't claim it was unlikely, you claimed we knew it couldn't happen.  There's a big difference.

Again, the CDC doesn't even say what you said.  And there's a reason for that.

[AU9377 4,950]

3 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Would you be comfortable stating that if the L.A. Times had already run a story claiming to have one?

Or is anything inconvenient fake news?

What I am comfortable with is the fact that there are reasonable and unreasonable positions and fears related to this vaccine.  Concern for long term negative impacts is an unreasonable concern.  Vaccines do not work that way.  We are not talking about a pill someone takes every day.  A person's body will process and discard the agent that delivers its payload in the same way that our bodies process everything from toxins to vitamins on a daily basis.

[AU9377 4,950]

8 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

And you didn't claim it was unlikely, you claimed we knew it couldn't happen.  There's a big difference.

Again, the CDC doesn't even say what you said.  And there's a reason for that.

It hasn't happened with any other vaccine.  I am sick and tired of indulging the idiocy that pretends this vaccine is some sort of known agent of harm that people behind a curtain are trying to trick people into taking.

I know one man that refused to get vaccinated and made all sorts of arguments about it being poison.  Keep in mind, this same man drank heavily for 40 years and even made his own moonshine.  He put more battery acid type chemicals into his body than I could list.  He is dead now, after having spent 7 weeks in a hospital ICU suffering from Covid.  I have no patience for the nonsense.

Edited September 28, 2021 by AU9377

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 339]

29 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

It hasn't happened with any other vaccine.  I am sick and tired of indulging the idiocy that pretends this vaccine is some sort of known agent of harm that people behind a curtain are trying to trick people into taking.

I know one man that refused to get vaccinated and made all sorts of arguments about it being poison.  Keep in mind, this same man drank heavily for 40 years and even made his own moonshine.  He put more battery acid type chemicals into his body than I could list.  He is dead now, after having spent 7 weeks in a hospital ICU suffering from Covid.  I have no patience for the nonsense.

Again, that's simply untrue.  I happen to know off the top of my head without looking anything up that the rubella vaccine has been associated with chronic arthritis long term.

Yeah, it's rare.  Really rare.  But it's simply not true to say that long term side effects have never happened with another vaccine.  Here's a link:  https://www.drugs.com/sfx/rubella-virus-vaccine-side-effects.html

You'd get lots less "nonsense" and people being distrustful if you wouldn't pass along untrue information.  I don't think you're doing it intentionally, but I think you need to do a little research about some of these things on your own rather than just passing along the party line. 

When people claim, "There is absolutely no chance of this happening and it's never happened before," and information to the contrary is a Google search away, people start to lose trust.

[AU9377 4,950]

1 hour ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Again, that's simply untrue.  I happen to know off the top of my head without looking anything up that the rubella vaccine has been associated with chronic arthritis long term.

Yeah, it's rare.  Really rare.  But it's simply not true to say that long term side effects have never happened with another vaccine.  Here's a link:  https://www.drugs.com/sfx/rubella-virus-vaccine-side-effects.html

You'd get lots less "nonsense" and people being distrustful if you wouldn't pass along untrue information.  I don't think you're doing it intentionally, but I think you need to do a little research about some of these things on your own rather than just passing along the party line. 

When people claim, "There is absolutely no chance of this happening and it's never happened before," and information to the contrary is a Google search away, people start to lose trust.

From what you cited:

The vaccine has rarely been associated with chronic joint symptoms. The incidence of arthritis and arthralgia is generally higher in adult women than in children (women, 12% to 26%; children, 0% to 3%), and symptoms tend to be more marked and of longer duration, persisting for months or years (rare). In adolescent girls, the incidence of reactions appears to be intermediate between those seen in children and in women. These reactions are generally well tolerated and rarely interfere with normal activities, even in women over 35 years old.^[Ref]

Musculoskeletal side effects have included arthralgia and/or arthritis (usually transient and rarely chronic), myalgia, paresthesia, and rarely chronic arthritis; these symptoms may also occur with natural rubella.^[Ref]

That is such a reach.  Again, why should reasonable people feel the need to indulge nonsense?  Make no mistake.  It is nonsense.  It is blatant stubborn ignorance. I happen to be taking my dad to his pulmonary specialist today.  I ran this by him.  His reaction?  He laughed.  He went on to tell me that it takes every ounce of will he can muster to not refuse to treat the unvaccinated.  He compared it to his smoking patients.  He has no patients that smoke because if they continue smoking after becoming a patient of his, he asks them to see someone else. They are wasting his time by their continued smoking. 

He pointed out that the same people that will not take the shot are the first to trust his advice when they get sick.  At that point, they take synthetic antibodies that are approved by way of an Emergency Use Authorization to get well.  Unfortunately, it doesn't work for everyone.

Edited September 28, 2021 by AU9377

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I agree, but I see the same breach of logic on the anti-vax side.  I haven't seen a rabid anti-vaxxer yet who didn't give all their kids every vaccine that was recommended.  And there's not a 0% chance of vaccine injury with any vaccine.

So why didn't the chance of vaccine injury stop these people from giving their kids the over 30 recommended vaccines by age 18 if anything greater than 0% chance should cause someone to really think about it?  These people didn't even pump the brakes or ask a question...the ones I know, anyway.

And there's nothing yet to suggest that this vaccine is any more dangerous than the routine ones.  The conspiracy theorists don't seem to know that suing drug companies for vaccine injuries hasn't been possible by law since 1986.  They seem to think that is something new just for COVID.

Both sides seem to not be relying much on logic if you ask me.

This statement is pretty spot on.