Anti Vaxxer Honor Roll

[AU9377 5,061]

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You. Have. Got. To.  Be. Kidding.  Me!!!!

Did you just contradict yourself in the first two sentences?  I agree that Biden has not issued a mandate on nation wide level.  However, he has mandated the Federal employees to get the vaccine.  Our service members have a choice of getting vaccinated or possibly receive a dishonorable discharge.  One heck of a choice.

Biden has mentioned he is going to have OSHA to put these *mandates* in place for corporations of 100 people or more.  OSHA has not come up with any regulation yet, but, as you point out, the corporations are more than happy to *mandate* these draconian rules implied by the Biden administration.

Your assertion that the vaccination rate has skyrocketed is typical of the left’s thinking.  Is that you Jen?  When you make an employee decide between a vaccine, that they believe is not necessary for their particular age group or situation, and losing their livelihood as mindless is ludicrous.

You should actually look at the people that are sacrificing their livelihood for their beliefs.  In NC Novant laid off 185 workers for not being vaccinated.  NY State have even higher numbers.

 https://gothamist.com/news/northwell-health-lays-1400-employees-who-defied-covid-19-vaccine-mandate

By now we should be able to live with Covid as the Delta variant is waining in the south.  Yes, people should consider getting the vaccine, but to mandate it by Biden or the corporations is not American.

 Let’s Go Brandon 👏👏👏👏 👏

Draconian? If people would use common sense and good judgment, there would be no need for mandates or incentives.

[jj3jordan 2,063]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:56 PM, AU9377 said:

Draconian? If people would use common sense and good judgment, there would be no need for mandates or incentives.

And there it is. See what you made us do? We HAD to mandate it because you won't do it voluntarily.  But we don't want the government to run everything. You still have free will, sort of.

[AU9377 5,061]

9 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

And there it is. See what you made us do? We HAD to mandate it because you won't do it voluntarily.  But we don't want the government to run everything. You still have free will, sort of.

You still have free will.  You can always quit.  Of course, you can also do the sensible thing and think about your health and others around you.

[AU9377 5,061]

On 10/9/2021 at 11:25 AM, I_M4_AU said:

You. Have. Got. To.  Be. Kidding.  Me!!!!

Did you just contradict yourself in the first two sentences?  I agree that Biden has not issued a mandate on nation wide level.  However, he has mandated the Federal employees to get the vaccine.  Our service members have a choice of getting vaccinated or possibly receive a dishonorable discharge.  One heck of a choice.

Biden has mentioned he is going to have OSHA to put these *mandates* in place for corporations of 100 people or more.  OSHA has not come up with any regulation yet, but, as you point out, the corporations are more than happy to *mandate* these draconian rules implied by the Biden administration.

Your assertion that the vaccination rate has skyrocketed is typical of the left’s thinking.  Is that you Jen?  When you make an employee decide between a vaccine, that they believe is not necessary for their particular age group or situation, and losing their livelihood as mindless is ludicrous.

You should actually look at the people that are sacrificing their livelihood for their beliefs.  In NC Novant laid off 185 workers for not being vaccinated.  NY State have even higher numbers.

 https://gothamist.com/news/northwell-health-lays-1400-employees-who-defied-covid-19-vaccine-mandate

By now we should be able to live with Covid as the Delta variant is waining in the south.  Yes, people should consider getting the vaccine, but to mandate it by Biden or the corporations is not American.

 Let’s Go Brandon 👏👏👏👏 👏

We have been mandating vaccines for decades.

[I_M4_AU 8,016]

11 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We have been mandating vaccines for decades.

This is a hollow rebuttal.  Those vaccines are for a highly contagious disease in children that have been around for decades.  There has been study after study conducted because they have been around for decades that show how effective they are

The Covid vaccine causes issues and there is not a lot of studies showing it effectiveness. In fact, if you have received the vaccine you are still not protected from contracting or spreading Covid.

The mandates are costing people their livelihood because people have to decide if they feel comfortable taking the vaccine as opposed to their job.  Do you believe this is a decision people should have to make for a vaccine that is not that effective?

Southwest Airlines cancelled over 1000 flight this weekend and they blamed it on ATC and weather yet not other airline had this problem.  Curious isn’t it?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/10/business/southwest-cancellations/index.html

There is speculation that the pilots were not happy with the vaccine mandate.  Both the union and the company deny this allegation, but neither would admit to it for obvious reasons.

Meanwhile at American Airlines;

American Airlines Pilots Fight Vaccine Mandate

In a letter to lawmakers, the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the union representing pilots from American Airlines, objects to the new vaccine mandate, arguing:

To ensure commercial aviation’s ongoing viability by avoiding a scenario in which airlines are forced to either offer unpaid leaves of absence or, worse, implement mass terminations of unvaccinated pilots, it is essential that an alternate means of compliance with the Executive Order be made available for professional pilots.

We therefore urge that regulators and policymakers recognize the specialized role that pilots play in the commercial aviation industry and allow for an alternate means of minimizing the risk of spreading COVID-19, such as regular testing or proof of natural immunity, while still allowing unvaccinated pilots to fly.

https://liveandletsfly.com/american-airlines-pilots-vaccine/

Why would pilots be so against getting the vaccination?  It’s safe and effective, right?  I’m sure the issue stems from the occurrence of Myocarditis.  You see if a pilot has any kind of heart issue he puts his career at risk.  Any heart issue and the Aeromedical division of the FAA will take a strong and aggressive approach to your ability to fly an airplane.

This will not publish this as the reason for the hesitancy to get the vaccine, but it is real.  Why would a perfectly healthy 30 year old, who has a very low risk of death from a virus, voluntarily put a substance in their bodies that could end their career?  A. Only if it is mandated.  What would be their recourse if they could not fly?  Can’t sue the big pharma, they could try to sue the company, or the government, meanwhile they are without a career.

We are living with this virus, but all Biden is doing is showing the American people his capacity to be a tyrant.  He has a 38% approval rating and the only ones thinking he is doing a good job are the LMAS cult members.

Let’s Go Brandon 👏👏👏👏👏

[wdefromtx 3,159]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is a hollow rebuttal.  Those vaccines are for a highly contagious disease in children that have been around for decades.  There has been study after study conducted because they have been around for decades that show how effective they are

The Covid vaccine causes issues and there is not a lot of studies showing it effectiveness. In fact, if you have received the vaccine you are still not protected from contracting or spreading Covid.

The mandates are costing people their livelihood because people have to decide if they feel comfortable taking the vaccine as opposed to their job.  Do you believe this is a decision people should have to make for a vaccine that is not that effective?

Southwest Airlines cancelled over 1000 flight this weekend and they blamed it on ATC and weather yet not other airline had this problem.  Curious isn’t it?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/10/business/southwest-cancellations/index.html

There is speculation that the pilots were not happy with the vaccine mandate.  Both the union and the company deny this allegation, but neither would admit to it for obvious reasons.

Meanwhile at American Airlines;

American Airlines Pilots Fight Vaccine Mandate

In a letter to lawmakers, the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the union representing pilots from American Airlines, objects to the new vaccine mandate, arguing:

To ensure commercial aviation’s ongoing viability by avoiding a scenario in which airlines are forced to either offer unpaid leaves of absence or, worse, implement mass terminations of unvaccinated pilots, it is essential that an alternate means of compliance with the Executive Order be made available for professional pilots.

We therefore urge that regulators and policymakers recognize the specialized role that pilots play in the commercial aviation industry and allow for an alternate means of minimizing the risk of spreading COVID-19, such as regular testing or proof of natural immunity, while still allowing unvaccinated pilots to fly.

https://liveandletsfly.com/american-airlines-pilots-vaccine/

Why would pilots be so against getting the vaccination?  It’s safe and effective, right?  I’m sure the issue stems from the occurrence of Myocarditis.  You see if a pilot has any kind of heart issue he puts his career at risk.  Any heart issue and the Aeromedical division of the FAA will take a strong and aggressive approach to your ability to fly an airplane.

This will not publish this as the reason for the hesitancy to get the vaccine, but it is real.  Why would a perfectly healthy 30 year old, who has a very low risk of death from a virus, voluntarily put a substance in their bodies that could end their career?  A. Only if it is mandated.  What would be their recourse if they could not fly?  Can’t sue the big pharma, they could try to sue the company, or the government, meanwhile they are without a career.

We are living with this virus, but all Biden is doing is showing the American people his capacity to be a tyrant.  He has a 38% approval rating and the only ones thinking he is doing a good job are the LMAS cult members.

Let’s Go Brandon 👏👏👏👏👏

I did not even think about this. I have a feeling all this is going to end up in the SC. I hope they tell Biden to take his mandate and shove it!! 

I have a good friend that works for Lockheed and he does not want to get the vaccine and he has until November 24th or whatever. He's hoping that something happens with the courts before then (even if it is just a judge stopping the mandate temporarily.) He is faced with taking the vaccine or losing his job. A close friend of his owns a company and a few weeks ago one of his employees died 2 days after getting the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine. I do not know all the details, but it caused something heart related and he died. His friend is not against the vaccine and not one to spread BS. This has made my friend not want the vaccine even more now and I do not blame him.

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,186]

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if these mandates weed out a lot of conspiracists and kooks from the Federal Government, military, and police especially. It's kind of like a mid-employment IQ/fitness test. 

 

19 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

A close friend of his owns a company and a few weeks ago one of his employees died 2 days after getting the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine. I do not know all the details, but it caused something heart related and he died. 

 

I know you're just relaying info that you've heard and I'm not saying this didn't happen because it is possible...but I'll take this with a grain of salt. 

"I know a guy who's friends with a guy who's co-worker died from the vaccine..."

eh, maybe. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if these mandates weed out a lot of conspiracists and kooks from the Federal Government, military, and police especially. 

 

I know you're just relaying info that you've heard and I'm not saying this didn't happen because it is possible...but I'll take this with a grain of salt. 

"I know a guy who's friends with a guy who's co-worker died from the vaccine..."

eh, maybe. 

I guess a better way to word it is that my friend's friend is an acquaintance of mine as well (known him for a long time but not really friends with him myself.) I actually spoked to him this morning by chance when I ran into him taking some cylinder heads to my friend's house on my way into the office. 

He said his employee was 38, male and died of a heart attack less than 48 hours after getting the first shot. Said he was healthy, active in many sports, and no family history cardiovascular disease. Although I am not friends with this guy, I know him well enough that he wouldn't spread BS and lies and is not one I would consider a conspiracy theorist or ant-vax person. In fact he was still trying to convince my friend he thought the vaccine was still a good idea. 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:44 PM, AU9377 said:

We have been mandating vaccines for decades.

How so?  Not necessarily disagreeing, just want to know what you mean here.

[AU9377 5,061]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:26 PM, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

The fact that you repeat inaccurate information is not nonsense, it's a fact.  The fact that you keep doubling and tripling down on that fact just makes the situation worse.

You just baldly claimed that no vaccine had ever caused long term side effects.  I've posted two examples to the contrary—the woman who has been having heart and lung issues for nine months and counting from the COVID vaccine, and the rubella vaccination.

Your response is to ignore the facts and just keep repeating that "it's nonsense," or that it's a reach.  What is reaching about posting a documented source that shows that at least one vaccine has caused rare long term side effects?  Do you say that because the symptoms are only arthritis and not heart failure?  Do you say that because it's rare?  I don't understand that one, because it was stipulated from the beginning that it is rare.

What's reaching about you saying, "This has never happened before," and me posting documentation of it happening before?

And that's just the vaccine I happened to know about (You know why I kew that?  Because I know someone that it happened to); I didn't look them all up, but I can if you'd like.  If me posting five or six examples wouldn't be "reaching," but something tells me that it still would be according to you.

Look, I'm vaccinated.  My wife is vaccinated.  My kids are vaccinated.  This isn't about me objecting to people getting vaccinated or trying to make a case for people not getting vaccinated.  At this point IMO there's enough data to pretty conclusively be able to say that the risk from the vaccine is much smaller than the risk from the virus.

This is about people on both sides being willing to knowingly spread misinformation in order to try to manipulate others in the direction they want.

You made a couple of statements that simply are not true.  Now, that's one thing.  But when confronted with documentation that shows otherwise, your response is to get angry and respond with a sort of irritated, "Don't bother me with those sorts of details, it's still all nonsense" sort of fingers-stuck-in-ears, eyes closed demeanor.

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I haven't changed my opinion on whether you are deliberately disseminating false information yet, but that response didn't make me feel solid in my first impression.

The vaccine misinformation is to the point of being pathetic.  Someone knows someone who has an uncle who is married to woman who used to be a nun who took the vaccine and died 2 days later due to the vaccine.  All of it is usually true until the last part... "due to the vaccine." 

We track these events closely in this country. Public health departments around the country document every death and then look for causation. The VAERS system allows anyone to report possible adverse effects and they are thereafter investigated.  THE VACCINES ARE SAFE. PERIOD.

In fact, there have been fewer adverse side effects than with many available over the counter medications.  You don't have to believe that, but I also don't have to continue to justify facts over every possible story that someone puts on the internet.

My best friend happens to be a medical doctor.  His specialty is in Tropical Medicine, specifically in the area of infectious disease.  People like him have no motivation to lie about the vaccines or Covid-19.  We don't even discuss it much anymore because it is literally all he deals with every day.  I don't usually bring that up, because it won't make a difference to people that believe only what supports their otherwise unsupported suspicions. 

[AU9377 5,061]

5 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

I guess a better way to word it is that my friend's friend is an acquaintance of mine as well (known him for a long time but not really friends with him myself.) I actually spoked to him this morning by chance when I ran into him taking some cylinder heads to my friend's house on my way into the office. 

He said his employee was 38, male and died of a heart attack less than 48 hours after getting the first shot. Said he was healthy, active in many sports, and no family history cardiovascular disease. Although I am not friends with this guy, I know him well enough that he wouldn't spread BS and lies and is not one I would consider a conspiracy theorist or ant-vax person. In fact he was still trying to convince my friend he thought the vaccine was still a good idea. 

You do understand that the relative point in time does not prove causation? 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The vaccine misinformation is to the point of being pathetic.  Someone knows someone who has an uncle who is married to woman who used to be a nun who took the vaccine and died 2 days later due to the vaccine.  All of it is usually true until the last part... "due to the vaccine." 

We track these events closely in this country. Public health departments around the country document every death and then look for causation. The VAERS system allows anyone to report possible adverse effects and they are thereafter investigated.  THE VACCINES ARE SAFE. PERIOD.

In fact, there have been fewer adverse side effects than with many available over the counter medications.  You don't have to believe that, but I also don't have to continue to justify facts over every possible story that someone puts on the internet.

My best friend happens to be a medical doctor.  His specialty is in Tropical Medicine, specifically in the area of infectious disease.  People like him have no motivation to lie about the vaccines or Covid-19.  We don't even discuss it much anymore because it is literally all he deals with every day.  I don't usually bring that up, because it won't make a difference to people that believe only what supports their otherwise unsupported suspicions. 

It seems like you are not responding to me here so much as using my post to respond to others.

At least that's how I am taking this post since you:

1.  Didn't actually respond to what you quoted and 

2.  Responded to me as though I have done the things you speak of here that I have not done.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You do understand that the relative point in time does not prove causation? 

Coroner listed main cause of death as myocardial infarction and secondary/contributing factors as severe acute myocarditis caused by an adverse reaction to the vaccine. 
 

Basically, it caused severe inflammation, arrhythmia (really rapid heart rate) that caused a piece of plaque to break loose, then a clot formed and caused the heart attack. 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:06 PM, homersapien said:

Maybe, but that's probably because causation is very hard to actually prove on an individual basis.

 

The problem with that analysis is that when it comes to vaccine injuries Occam's Razor is thrown out the window.  I'm not talking about injuries that are brought to investigation—when it comes to that stage as far as I know reasonable investigative procedures are followed.

I'm talking about when a parent has a child vaccinated and two hours later they are obviously sick, seizing, whatever, and they go back to the pediatrician's office and instead of being told that apparently their child is having a vaccine reaction—which would be the obvious conclusion for anyone God gave the common sense he gave a goat, and which would be the conclusion had it been anything else in the world that they had given the child; a medication, an antibiotic, whatever, it would have been noted as something the child was allergic to and never given to her again, but because it was a vaccination the parents are told that it is a coincidence and the illness is of unknown origin.  The child had been perfectly fine up until then, nothing changed in her life except the vaccination, but it's more likely that some mysterious coincidental illness befell the child rather than the vaccination having caused symptoms that are, btw, listed as possible side effects of that vaccine.  Right.  And my experience leads me to believe that this is far more common than people might realize.

If we practiced medicine according to those standards regarding everything instead of just vaccines, we'd literally never diagnose anything.  

And regarding the words of the guy around here (can't remember his name) who thinks his opinions about vaccines are written in stone tablets rather than just his (non-expert) opinions, it is true that the parents could report the injury.  The problem with that is that:

1.  Most parents don't know this.

2.  If they do know it, they don't think they would get very far with it since their doctor refuses to admit the obvious truth.

3.  Some of them believe the cockamamie story that the vaccine had nothing to do with it.

I don't know what the psychological phenomenon is that prevents people these days from being able to admit any flaws in something they support.  The truth is that I don't know of any person, system, party, medical procedure, etc. that is absolutely perfect, but people these days—especially on the left IME—are emotionally incapable of acknowledging this.

That's where That's Different© comes in.  This refusal to admit that vaccinations do injure some people is just another version of That's Different©.

All medical procedures/medications harm some people.  ALL OF THEM.  Even something as simple as aspirin.  Even the COVID vaccine.

That doesn't mean they aren't useful.  Medicine is always a risk-reward proposition.

[homersapien 11,465]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:59 AM, I_M4_AU said:

You’re exactly right.  It all comes down to personal choice.  As Harsin said; “this isn’t a math test”.

No, you are exactly wrong.

Actually, pandemics are about disease running through societies - populations.  That is why vaccination rates are so critical. 

It is irrational for a healthy person to prioritize personal choice because their perceived risk of vaccination is greater than becoming infected.  Such behavior reveals a contempt  for - or at least an ignorance of - the science as well as a contempt for the greater good.

Edited October 14, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,465]

14 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I don't know what the psychological phenomenon is that prevents people these days from being able to admit any flaws in something they support.  The truth is that I don't know of any person, system, party, medical procedure, etc. that is absolutely perfect, but people these days—especially on the left IME—are emotionally incapable of acknowledging this.
 

First, I don't know of any intelligent or sane person who makes the argument that anything is perfect. So, again, nice straw man.

But speaking of psychological phenomenon, I don't know what it is about conservatives that makes them so self-absorbed about perceived risks associated with responsible social behavior is necessarily being foisted upon them as a conspiratorial threat by progressives.

 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

First, I don't know of any intelligent or sane person who makes the argument that anything is perfect. So, again, nice straw man.

But speaking of psychological phenomenon, I don't know what it is about conservatives that makes them so self-absorbed about perceived risks associated with responsible social behavior is necessarily being foisted upon them as a conspiratorial threat by progressives.

 

I didn't say liberals make the argument that anything is perfect (speaking of straw men).  I said they will not admit flaws.

I said That's Different© is their favorite phrase and they 100% of the time will excuse the behavior of Democrats.  

I don't know what the rest of anything you said has to do with anything I have said, but I can answer the question, or at least give you my theory on it.

I think there are two reasons:  Number one, conservative thought has been gaslighted for so long by the Big Three mainstream thought influencers (the entertainment industry, the media, and universities) that conservatives don't trust mainstream sources anymore. 

Number two, people who lean conservative do so in the first pace because they naturally gravitate toward a viewpoint of personal responsibility and individuality.  They don't expect anyone else to take care of them nor do they feel obligated to take care of other capable adults.  And they have become very weary of liberals gaslighting that viewpoint, as you very obviously intentionally did above with your faux question.

So there's not only a distrust of mainstream sources but a boiling resentment as well. 

I could get into details on that, but I essentially think that's it in a nutshell.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Shoney'sPonyBoy

[AUFAN78 3,926]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:43 PM, AU9377 said:

You can always quit. 

Plenty have quit in various sectors including medical, transportation, first responders, etc. Do you feel this is helpful to our populace? 

Talked to ER personnel lately regarding this impact? Curious why stores can't get goods in a timely manner? Imagine a 15/20 minute delay responding to a heart attack victim? You good with $5 a gallon gas?

I'm vaccinated and encourage the vaccine, but let's not pretend there are no consequences with mandates.

[I_M4_AU 8,016]

13 hours ago, homersapien said:

Actually, pandemics are about disease running through societies - populations.  That is why vaccination rates are so critical.

Is there any consideration of natural immunity in the population?  Isn’t natural immunity more robust than the vaccine we have?  Why is it not in the calculations?  Could it be Biden would have to test everyone for anti-bodies and that would not fit in his calculations of 97-98% vaccination rate?

13 hours ago, homersapien said:

It is irrational for a healthy person to prioritize personal choice because their perceived risk of vaccination is greater than becoming infected.

Can you remember back in February when you were going to get the vaccination asap?  Was your decision based on your highest priority of protecting yourself?  I know mine was.  After I was fully vaccinated we were told by the CDC if you were fully vaccinated you could not catch the virus and, therefore, you couldn’t spread the virus.  Not spreading the virus was secondary back then.  I’m sure had a more noble approach, but I was delayed in getting mine because of all the people that were either online or on the phone at some ungodly hour to make their appointments.  I’m pretty sure most of those people were thinking about protecting themselves.

If you are talking about the here and now, we have had this vaccine since December of 2020 and a lot has been determined about its efficacy.  One of the things that makes it hard to sell is that it will not protect you from Covid like we were told and you can still spread it.  Although the vaccine is very effective at preventing severe cases of Covid, for some people that fact is not enough to outweigh the perceived risk.  It is their choice in a free society.  In a totalitarian society, you’re correct, the government will tell you what is best.

Biden has us so close to a totalitarian society that he insists on destroying people’s livelihood unless they conform to his wishes.  The airline industry is a prime example; flying around on airplanes is not a super spreader, in fact, because of the HEPA filters used on aircraft they are very safe in preventing the spread.  Yet, because all airlines are considered *government contract employees* they are mandated to have a vaccine or get fired.  This is as arbitrary as it gets.  We have lived with this virus for a year and a half and have come up with effective mitigation strategies that will allow people that contract the virus a good chance of beating it if given early enough.  Merck is on the verge of getting a therapeutic approved to greatly reduce death from people that contract the virus. So why the big push to get people fired?

You have to ask yourself; why the bullheaded approach to vaccines?

 

 

 

[TitanTiger 20,530]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Is there any consideration of natural immunity in the population?  Isn’t natural immunity more robust than the vaccine we have?

There is no conclusive evidence that is true.  And don't cite this or that study.  The question is still unanswered as studies are conflicting or ongoing.

 

 

Quote

Can you remember back in February when you were going to get the vaccination asap?  Was your decision based on your highest priority of protecting yourself?  I know mine was.  After I was fully vaccinated we were told by the CDC if you were fully vaccinated you could not catch the virus and, therefore, you couldn’t spread the virus.  Not spreading the virus was secondary back then.  I’m sure had a more noble approach, but I was delayed in getting mine because of all the people that were either online or on the phone at some ungodly hour to make their appointments.  I’m pretty sure most of those people were thinking about protecting themselves.

If you are talking about the here and now, we have had this vaccine since December of 2020 and a lot has been determined about its efficacy.  One of the things that makes it hard to sell is that it will not protect you from Covid like we were told and you can still spread it.  Although the vaccine is very effective at preventing severe cases of Covid, for some people that fact is not enough to outweigh the perceived risk.  It is their choice in a free society.  In a totalitarian society, you’re correct, the government will tell you what is best.

But the "perceived" risk is based almost entirely on bull****.  Even the worst, most inflated rates of so-called vaccine injury from this is miniscule compared to the exponentially higher rates of people getting seriously sick or dying from COVID.  On top of that, the vaccines still make it multiple times less likely you'll even get COVID if exposed, the window where you are even able to spread it if you do catch it is much shorter, and then of course there's the aforementioned exponentially lower risk of serious illness, hospitalization and death.  

Ask any doctor or nurse on the frontlines and they'll tell you - their ICUs weren't filling up a few weeks back because of people having complications from the vaccines.  The numbers back that anecdotal observation up.  We've administered over 400 million vaccine doses in the US.  Over 160 million people in the country are fully vaccinated.  And the numbers of serious complication or deaths - even using the bull**** numbers rabid anti-vaxxers try to use such as raw reports from VAERS are in the thousands or tens of thousands.  By comparison we have 44 million confirmed COVID cases in the US and almost 720,000 death.  Many more on top of that hospitalized from it.  Even if you try to argue that the number of reported cases are too low - hell let's multiple it 3.5x over to get it in the same total number as we have fully vaccinated.  You still are looking at less than 50k serious problems from vaccines (which is a completely inflated, bull**** number but I'm using it to illustrate the point) vs 720,000 deaths and millions of people who got seriously ill and/or were hospitalized from COVID.

What thinking individual sees that and thinks the vaccines have anything in the same galaxy of perceived risk as catching COVID?

 

Quote

Biden has us so close to a totalitarian society that he insists on destroying people’s livelihood unless they conform to his wishes.  The airline industry is a prime example; flying around on airplanes is not a super spreader, in fact, because of the HEPA filters used on aircraft they are very safe in preventing the spread.  Yet, because all airlines are considered *government contract employees* they are mandated to have a vaccine or get fired.  This is as arbitrary as it gets.  We have lived with this virus for a year and a half and have come up with effective mitigation strategies that will allow people that contract the virus a good chance of beating it if given early enough.  Merck is on the verge of getting a therapeutic approved to greatly reduce death from people that contract the virus. So why the big push to get people fired?

You have to ask yourself; why the bullheaded approach to vaccines?

Because COVID almost cratered our economy and continues to be a drag on it.  Because it has disrupted supply chains.  Because it continues to kill and seriously injure tens of thousands a month.  The vaccines, bar none, are the best remedy to get us out of this, prevent future needless deaths and serious illness, and back to normalcy.  And because despite being one of the most highly scrutinized vaccines or medicines in human history and delivering incredible results in effectiveness and safety, people chose to believe bull**** they read on social media and outlier medical quacks.  And even after all that, and offering more and more good scientific data to combat the lies, and waiting patiently for people to come to their senses, too many people have chosen selfishness, lies, conspiracy theories, and unscientific garbage and their idiotic choices are not just affecting them or their families but all of us.  

And as far as Merck, I find it unbelievably confounding that one would float that it's reasonable to be suspicious of vaccines, but tout another treatment that is even newer and less tested as a more viable option.  I mean, this is Merck - another member of "Big Pharma" - a company that tried to develop its own vaccine but failed to produce one that was effective, so they pivoted to manufacturing vaccines for J&J.  A company that owns the patent for ivermectin (as well as generic subsidiaries that make generic ivermectin today) and says the studies don't show it to be an effective COVID treatment.  And a company that now has a totally new oral antiviral medication - this is what you put out there as a reason to not push for vaccination?  GTFO.

[AU9377 5,061]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:26 PM, wdefromtx said:

Coroner listed main cause of death as myocardial infarction and secondary/contributing factors as severe acute myocarditis caused by an adverse reaction to the vaccine. 
 

Basically, it caused severe inflammation, arrhythmia (really rapid heart rate) that caused a piece of plaque to break loose, then a clot formed and caused the heart attack. 

That is possible, but it would literally be one of less than 10 deaths out of 500 million vaccinations.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by AU9377

[wdefromtx 3,159]

6 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

That is possible, but it would literally be one of less than 10 deaths out of 500 million vaccinations.

 

 

LOL, so now you don't want to believe what a doctor says about something regarding one of the vaccines. You guys are a trip. 

Can't blame a person for not wanting to get the vaccine if they are worried about the potential of this happening when the vaccine itself doesn't guarantee it will stop you from getting the virus. 

[AU9377 5,061]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

LOL, so now you don't want to believe what a doctor says about something regarding one of the vaccines. You guys are a trip. 

Can't blame a person for not wanting to get the vaccine if they are worried about the potential of this happening when the vaccine itself doesn't guarantee it will stop you from getting the virus. 

Yet it does prevent serious illness and hospitalization in 90%.  You simply want to be contrarian about the issue... go for it.  Good luck.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Yet it does prevent serious illness and hospitalization in 90%.  You simply want to be contrarian about the issue... go for it.  Good luck.

I have a right to be contrarian about the issue as far as I am concerned considering I am still having lingering issues from getting it 8 months ago. If I could go back and redo, I definitely would not get it. So I can see where people have their concerns. I am not against the vaccine, but I am against the BS mandate approach this administration is trying to force down everyone's throat. 

[I_M4_AU 8,016]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

What thinking individual sees that and thinks the vaccines have anything in the same galaxy of perceived risk as catching COVID?

I don’t know what they are thinking, but they have the right to their opinion.  I would imagine their beliefs about the harm the vaccine may do, or their religious beliefs, etc far outweigh their concern about Covid.  It is abundantly clear that Biden is not going to get the compliance he would like no matter what mandates are imposes.

Dr Fauci, in a NIH press conference yesterday, has finally admitted it is highly unlikely we are going to eradicate Covid.  This seems a departure from the doctrine he has maintained.  He also said there was only one virus that has been eliminated and that was small pox.  Around the 12:00 mark.

He still is pushing vaccination as a way to control, but not to eliminate/eradicate.  

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

not just affecting them or their families but all of us.

I still don’t get this.  If you are vaccinated and therefore protected, why do you care if others are not?   Biden has segregated Americans by their vaccination status.  Not a good marketing strategy.

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

 And a company that now has a totally new oral antiviral medication - this is what you put out there as a reason to not push for vaccination?

Once again, I am vaccinated and think it would be a good idea for everyone to get vaccinated. I do, however, believe it is a personal choice whether you elect to be vaccinated or not.  I am protected, its up to you to protect yourself.

Our healthcare industry is well respected, so much so that people will live an unhealthy lifestyle and rely on the doctors to heal what is the result of that unhealthy lifestyle.  This is no different.