Anti Vaxxer Honor Roll

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

21 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Are you claiming that vaccinated people who die from Covid could have only been infected by other vaccinated people? 

This is an example of a leap in logic.  Are you trying to put words in my mouth?  I know of people that have had a break through case, as they have been vaccinated, that have passed it on to unvaccinated people, so we know contracting the virus has nothing to do with who is vaccinated and who is not.  Do you agree with this statement?  Of course, the unvaccinated can spread the virus, but they are not the only ones spreading the virus.

Therefore, if you vilify the unvaccinated you are being political.

21 hours ago, Leftfield said:

And for the nth time, you are still ignoring the danger posed to those who are vaccinated but have compromised immune systems or are otherwise at high risk, not to mention those who can't get the vaccine.

What most of this thread has been talking about the *normal* situation, not the outlier. The outliers have to protect themselves as they know who they are and other people can not be responsible for something they are not aware of.  If the *normal* people are aware of their condition, then yes, they should take precautions with these people.  It would be up to the people who have compromised immune systems to set the standards of not interacting with people that may be a threat to them.

As an analogy; a person who has a severe allergy to peanuts will have to protect themselves and let others know if there may be a problem.

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

20 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I have a longer post in the works at the office but I am currently at home for lunch and I will just say this for now: The conversation I was having was specifically about people who booed Lindsey Graham for being very clear and saying, "I'm not saying you have to get the vaccine, but you might want to think about it," not everyone who chooses to not get it.

In other words, he made it very clear that he was not advocating against personal choice, he was just recommending that they consider getting the vaccine.

If you are in that crowd booing that statement, I think it's pretty safe to say it's political.  More to come...

No, I was responding to the political statement being about vaccination hesitancy rather than vaccinated vs the unvaccinated.

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

18 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

And the other thing is that I totally understand not being one of the first people in line for the vaccine.  But given the data we have at this point it seems like a very farfetched fear that an injury would be likely at all.  At this point we've fully vaccinated 186 million people in America.  That's more than the entire population of the country in 1956 when the Cutter vaccinations went out.

Memory is always there, whether it be about the deaths from the Cutter situation or the Tuskegee Experiment there will always be a portion of the population that will resist these vaccines. 

The data for this vaccine is 10 months old, that’s it, and as you have said the issues are probably underreported. On top of that, the reports of issues are being censored by social media and the MSM are being urged not to report these.  Does this give you pause?  I’m not saying people should not get the vaccine until more data is known to the public, but I can see the hesitancy for this vaccine.

18 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

There are very few states that do not have some sort of vaccination exemptions for entering public school.  Almost everywhere you can get out of them if you really want to.

This is where the anti-vaxx movement really started.  I do wonder if the exemptions will continue?

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/10/01/california-becomes-first-state-in-nation-to-announce-covid-19-vaccine-requirements-for-schools/

18 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

even if you assume those things you still have to conclude that the vaccine is a very low risk and COVID itself (while still a low risk) is a significantly higher risk.

Here is where personal choice comes in.  It doesn’t matter what the risk is for either.  Each person could care less about the risk if there is a chance, any chance, they maybe affected by either.  The people that believe taking the vaccine is the way to go are vaccinated, the others are not.  To force people to make a decision regardless of their personal perception about medical issues is despicable.

[Leftfield 2,604]

12 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is an example of a leap in logic.  Are you trying to put words in my mouth?  I know of people that have had a break through case, as they have been vaccinated, that have passed it on to unvaccinated people, so we know contracting the virus has nothing to do with who is vaccinated and who is not.  Do you agree with this statement?  Of course, the unvaccinated can spread the virus, but they are not the only ones spreading the virus.

Your exact words were "...and to say the unvaccinated are a danger to the vaccinated is definitely political." How is it a leap in logic to say that implies a vaccinated person can't be infected by an unvaccinated person? If an unvaxxed person can spread it, well then, they're a danger, right? Is that a statement that is political?

And no, I don't agree with your statement that contracting the virus has nothing to do with vaccination status. Certainly a vaxxed person can contract it, but the infection rate isn't even close, so the unvaxxed spread it much more than those who are vaccinated. That also is not a political statement. 

 

42 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What most of this thread has been talking about the *normal* situation, not the outlier. The outliers have to protect themselves as they know who they are and other people can not be responsible for something they are not aware of.  If the *normal* people are aware of their condition, then yes, they should take precautions with these people.  It would be up to the people who have compromised immune systems to set the standards of not interacting with people that may be a threat to them.

Considering the number of people that are over 65, under 12 (and going to school), immune compromised, or have medical conditions, that's a pretty damn big outlier. I guess they'll all just have to take care of themselves.

Good luck, kids!

See you at Thanksgiving, Grandma and Grandpa! I hope!

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

43 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

No, I was responding to the political statement being about vaccination hesitancy rather than vaccinated vs the unvaccinated.

I'm sorry, I miscommunicated.  I didn't mean you personally, I mean the Royal "you."  As in, "Any one in that crowd who was booing that statement."

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

21 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Memory is always there, whether it be about the deaths from the Cutter situation or the Tuskegee Experiment there will always be a portion of the population that will resist these vaccines. 

The data for this vaccine is 10 months old, that’s it, and as you have said the issues are probably underreported. On top of that, the reports of issues are being censored by social media and the MSM are being urged not to report these.  Does this give you pause?  I’m not saying people should not get the vaccine until more data is known to the public, but I can see the hesitancy for this vaccine.

This is where the anti-vaxx movement really started.  I do wonder if the exemptions will continue?

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/10/01/california-becomes-first-state-in-nation-to-announce-covid-19-vaccine-requirements-for-schools/

Here is where personal choice comes in.  It doesn’t matter what the risk is for either.  Each person could care less about the risk if there is a chance, any chance, they maybe affected by either.  The people that believe taking the vaccine is the way to go are vaccinated, the others are not.  To force people to make a decision regardless of their personal perception about medical issues is despicable.

Dealing with your first question first (does it give me pause that injuries are censored, under-reported, etc.)?

It gives me the same degree of pause that it does for every other vaccine.  Vaccine injury data has always been suppressed.  Maybe not by the same mechanisms as it is for this vaccine, but the public health community has always come down on the side of protecting people from themselves by filtering the data by various means so that it looks like vaccines are safer than they are.

And the reason they do that is because they don't want what is happening now, which is half the country or so refusing to get vaccinated.  Because we are better off with the vaccinations, injuries and all.  Just like we're better off with heart bypass surgeries even though a certain number of patients will die on the table while having one.

I'm not saying they are justified in filtering the data; I believe we have to overcome this with truth and education.  

I also believe in personal choice and if I have said anything to the contrary here I misspoke.

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

9 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Considering the number of people that are over 65, under 12 (and going to school), immune compromised, or have medical conditions, that's a pretty damn big outlier. I guess they'll all just have to take care of themselves.

Good luck, kids!

See you at Thanksgiving, Grandma and Grandpa! I hope!

And you say “you don’t live in fear”.  Go see your Grandparents, they will protect themselves and they would love to see you.

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

23 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Dealing with your first question first (does it give me pause that injuries are censored, under-reported, etc.)?

It gives me the same degree of pause that it does for every other vaccine.  Vaccine injury data has always been suppressed.  Maybe not by the same mechanisms as it is for this vaccine, but the public health community has always come down on the side of protecting people from themselves by filtering the data by various means so that it looks like vaccines are safer than they are.

And the reason they do that is because they don't want what is happening now, which is half the country or so refusing to get vaccinated.  Because we are better off with the vaccinations, injuries and all.  Just like we're better off with heart bypass surgeries even though a certain number of patients will die on the table while having one.

I'm not saying they are justified in filtering the data; I believe we have to overcome this with truth and education.  

I also believe in personal choice and if I have said anything to the contrary here I misspoke.

I don’t think you misspoke, I just wanted to further explain my view of personal choice.  The more we are vaccinated, the more people’s perception will be we can return to normal.  We may never know.  Mandating is just wrong.

Edited October 7, 2021 by I_M4_AU

[Leftfield 2,604]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

And you say “you don’t live in fear”.  Go see your Grandparents, they will protect themselves and they would love to see you.

When did I say that? And are you really going back to this topic? As if the fear vs irrational fear thing hasn't been pounded to death already?

Goes back to the same thing every time. You float the idea that the unvaccinated aren't a threat, or at least aren't any more of a threat that the vaccinated, and when someone points out that's demonstrably false you fall back on "Everyone can take care of themselves! Don't live in fear!" Every. Time.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

33 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

at least aren't any more of a threat that the vaccinated

Bingo.  A person can catch Covid from either a vaccinated or unvaccinated person and it really doesn’t matter if the occurrence is any different.  You still get the virus.

I don’t see this thought as being demonstrably false.

[Leftfield 2,604]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Bingo.  A person can catch Covid from either a vaccinated or unvaccinated person and it really doesn’t matter if the occurrence is any different.  You still get the virus.

I don’t see this thought as being demonstrably false.

This is something else you do every time : hammer the point that an infected person, whether they are vaxxed or not, can spread Covid (which is something nobody, NOBODY, on this board has denied) and act like that's the end of the argument, completely ignoring the main point. 

Since you seem incapable of discerning that point, I'll spell it out again: VACCINATED PEOPLE HAVE A MUCH LOWER INFECTION RATE THAN UNVACCINATED PEOPLE. THEREFORE, THEY ARE FAR LESS LIKELY TO BE INFECTED AND THEREFORE SPREAD COVID TO SOMEONE ELSE.

You will, undoubtedly, dance around this point as you always do, but by all means, dazzle the board with your performance.

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

20 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

This is something else you do every time : hammer the point that an infected person, whether they are vaxxed or not, can spread Covid (which is something nobody, NOBODY, on this board has denied) and act like that's the end of the argument, completely ignoring the main point. 

Since you seem incapable of discerning that point, I'll spell it out again: VACCINATED PEOPLE HAVE A MUCH LOWER INFECTION RATE THAN UNVACCINATED PEOPLE. THEREFORE, THEY ARE FAR LESS LIKELY TO BE INFECTED AND THEREFORE SPREAD COVID TO SOMEONE ELSE.

You will, undoubtedly, dance around this point as you always do, but by all means, dazzle the board with your performance.

Your statement is true, but it doesn’t alter the FACT that vaccinated people can and do spread Covid.  Whether they are less likely to spread Covid is irrelevant, they still spread it.  If everyone is vaccinated, which is an impossibility, we would still have infections if there are break through cases. They would be less frequent, but we would still have infections.

Biden said we can probably get back to normal if we have 97-98% of Americans vaccinated. How long are you willing to wait?

[Leftfield 2,604]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your statement is true, but it doesn’t alter the FACT that vaccinated people can and do spread Covid.  Whether they are less likely to spread Covid is irrelevant, they still spread it. 

I just don't understand how you can be so blind to what you're saying. ANY increase in spread means more sick and dead people. You're saying that's irrelevant? I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't if it killed someone you knew.

You've pointed out that you're vaccinated, but your points almost always go to supporting vaccine hesitancy and/or the fallacy that vaccines don't make a significant difference in spread. I can only guess as to why that's the case. For so many (not saying this is you) it seems predicated on the belief that the government and corporations are trying to grab more power. Certainly that's one of the main arguments put forward by a huge portion of the parents I've witnessed at local mask mandate protests. It just all seems rooted in the fear that we're racing full speed into communism. Ironically, the fact that so many resist because of that belief, as well as a mistrust of science, means that we haven't reached an adequate vaccination level to even sniff herd immunity, which means vaccine mandates have started to come into play.  It's now a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Biden said we can probably get back to normal if we have 97-98% of Americans vaccinated. How long are you willing to wait?

No idea where Biden got that. Would have to think it was one of his gaffes. I've never seen a percentage anywhere close to that high as a target. All the numbers I've seen hover around 70-75%.

How long am I willing to wait for what? Getting back to some semblance of normal? Mainly until my two youngest get vaccinated, but it will depend on what's going on at the time. The numbers are starting to go back down, but they're still high, so for the time being we'll restrict going out to necessary tasks (work, school, grocery store, etc.) and continue to wear masks in enclosed public spaces, and possibly outside if we somehow find ourselves in a really crowded area. Fingers crossed, there won't be a new rampant variant that pops up that is even more resistant to the vaccines, and maybe this will mostly be behind us, as I do think it is now endemic. As a society, though, we certainly could have gotten to this point with far less death and long-term health issues.

[homersapien 11,381]

 

9 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your statement is true, but it doesn’t alter the FACT that vaccinated people can and do spread Covid.  Whether they are less likely to spread Covid is irrelevant, they still spread it.  If everyone is vaccinated, which is an impossibility, we would still have infections if there are break through cases. They would be less frequent, but we would still have infections....

You seem to be looking at this issue solely from a possibility perspective (it can happen to a given individual) while ignoring the statistical frequency of it happening in a population, which is what we are really talking about.

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

13 hours ago, Leftfield said:

your points almost always go to supporting vaccine hesitancy and/or the fallacy that vaccines don't make a significant difference in spread.

This is not exactly true, my arguments are for the personal choice to vaccinate or not.  I can see some of the arguments of the people that don’t want to be vaccinated.  I didn’t make that choice and I feel the risk of getting the virus was more than the risk of the vaccine.  Of course, I got the Fauci Ochie in March and had no side affects.  I’m debating about taking the booster.

13 hours ago, Leftfield said:

racing full speed into communism.

Please read the excerpt from Biden’s speech from yesterday and honestly tell me how you interpret his intent.  

Let’s be clear: When you see headlines and reports of “mass firings” and “hundreds” of people losing their jobs, look at the bigger story.

I’ve spoken with Scott Kirby, the CEO of United Airlines, who’s here today.  United went from 59 percent of their employees to 99 percent of their employees in less than two months after implementing the requirement.  Ninety-nine percent. 

And, by the way, Scott, I want you to know I’ve instructed the Justice Department to make sure that we deal with the violence on aircraft coming from those people who are taking issues.  We’re going to deal with that.

In the last days of their implementation, they cut the remaining number of employees left to get vaccinated in half.  They went from 67,000 United employees to 66- — of 67,000, 66,800 complied.  People chose to get vaccinated.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/10/07/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-importance-of-covid-19-vaccine-requirements/

I like the part where he says “people chose to get vaccinated”.  They were given a deal they couldn’t refuse.  Chose to get vaccinated 🤣

Soldiers are dishonorably discharged and health care workers (the ones that were hero’s a year ago) are being laid off and replaced by either military or foreign workers.

13 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Would have to think it was one of his gaffes

This is in the same category as injecting bleach, you can’t use that excuse.

14 hours ago, Leftfield said:

All the numbers I've seen hover around 70-75%

According to Joe, we are there.  This from the same speech:

More than 75 percent of eligible Americans have gotten at least one shot.

It seems the 97-98% of Americans need to be vaccinated wasn’t a gaffe.  We must have total control of our population.  Did I mention we have let over a million unvaccinated illegal immigrants into our country in the last 9 months.

As a parent you get to decide what is right for your kids and as a husband you gets to decide what is best for your family.  At your age this is what you should be doing, taking charge.  I have no issue with that.

In the last 2 days, both New Zealand and Australia have backed off of their ZERO COVID policies as that strategy was not working.  Here, in the US, we are following our Fearful Leader.

Lets Go Brandon 👏👏👏👏👏

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

 

You seem to be looking at this issue solely from a possibility perspective (it can happen to a given individual) while ignoring the statistical frequency of it happening in a population, which is what we are really talking about.

 

 

You’re exactly right.  It all comes down to personal choice.  As Harsin said; “this isn’t a math test”.

[homersapien 11,381]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:08 PM, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

4.  Like I already posted, I understand giving it a while to see some data.  But the data is in for half the country at this point.  Even if you assume that vaccine injuries are under-reported (they probably are, they are for every other vaccine) and that COVID hospitalizations and deaths are over-reported (we know that they have been, as there have been verified cases of this happening), even if you assume those things you still have to conclude that the vaccine is a very low risk and COVID itself (while still a low risk) is a significantly higher risk.

I liked your post but I was curious if you had a reference for saying that.

Edited October 8, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,381]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You’re exactly right.  It all comes down to personal choice.  As Harsin said; “this isn’t a math test”.

But I agree with Leftfield.  The general tone and tenor of your posts on this subject seem to be supporting the anti-vaxxers. 

"Personal choice" sounds like code for "I don't have to take it regardless if I have no medical reasons not to.  Citing individual negative outcomes is a good example of that. That's a classical case of providing information out of context. (In this case, the risk of acquiring a serious case of covid.)

That's exactly why you are getting so much push back. This is more of an epidemiological issue, rather than one of "individual rights". 

This country is going insane with it's politically-based decision making and your posts are feeding it.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by homersapien

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 338]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I liked your post but I was curious if you had a reference for saying that.

I should have said I believe they are for every other vaccine.  Thank you for pointing that out.

Based on my observations of what happens in the medical field when there's an obvious vaccine injury (that's the field I am in), I believe that vaccine injuries are under-reported.

[homersapien 11,381]

10 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I should have said I believe they are for every other vaccine.  Thank you for pointing that out.

Based on my observations of what happens in the medical field when there's an obvious vaccine injury (that's the field I am in), I believe that vaccine injuries are under-reported.

Maybe, but that's probably because causation is very hard to actually prove on an individual basis.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by homersapien

[Leftfield 2,604]

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Please read the excerpt from Biden’s speech from yesterday and honestly tell me how you interpret his intent.  

Let’s be clear: When you see headlines and reports of “mass firings” and “hundreds” of people losing their jobs, look at the bigger story.

I’ve spoken with Scott Kirby, the CEO of United Airlines, who’s here today.  United went from 59 percent of their employees to 99 percent of their employees in less than two months after implementing the requirement.  Ninety-nine percent. 

And, by the way, Scott, I want you to know I’ve instructed the Justice Department to make sure that we deal with the violence on aircraft coming from those people who are taking issues.  We’re going to deal with that.

In the last days of their implementation, they cut the remaining number of employees left to get vaccinated in half.  They went from 67,000 United employees to 66- — of 67,000, 66,800 complied.  People chose to get vaccinated.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/10/07/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-importance-of-covid-19-vaccine-requirements/

I like the part where he says “people chose to get vaccinated”.  They were given a deal they couldn’t refuse.  Chose to get vaccinated 🤣

Soldiers are dishonorably discharged and health care workers (the ones that were hero’s a year ago) are being laid off and replaced by either military or foreign workers.

Well, I guess I interpret his intent as pushing to get people vaccinated. Is there some other way I should see it? Has he done something outside of his authority? Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it a march to communism.

Considering the very people who won't get vaccinated are primarily the ones taking Biden to task for failing to meet his vaccination goals, I'm wondering what you would suggest he do in order to keep his election promise.

In reference to the bolded sentence, can you please explain to me why going after those committing violence against airline employees is a bad thing?

 

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

According to Joe, we are there.  This from the same speech:

More than 75 percent of eligible Americans have gotten at least one shot.

Good thing I don't depend on Biden for my information on the pandemic. Is there some reason you keep going back to what he says and implying I'm a slobbering Biden supporter? Just because I think the bulk of the Republican Party has lost its collective mind for supporting Trump does not put me in the tank for the Democratic Party. 

Most importantly, pointing out that Biden is wrong does not make you any less so.

 

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

It seems the 97-98% of Americans need to be vaccinated wasn’t a gaffe.  We must have total control of our population. 

"...seems rooted in the fear that we're racing full speed into communism." Not sure you could have proven my point any better. It's fun to see that you'll ridicule Biden for being a senile crank, or vilify him as a diabolical politician carrying out his plot, depending on which suits your argument.

How about we just discuss the subject at hand, and not worry about any politicians, seeing as how the facts of Covid and vaccination aren't, you know, political.

 

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

As a parent you get to decide what is right for your kids...

If a parent decided their child should not receive cancer treatment in a hospital because they believe herbal remedies are superior, they should be able to do that? If they decide their kids should be beaten and stay in cages to teach them discipline, the state shouldn't step in? You may disagree with the point the state should take action, but it's absurd to make a blanket statement that parental rights are absolutely paramount in every case.

And I'll point out, again, that this is a decision that affects far more people than just that parent's kids.

 

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

 ...and as a husband you gets to decide what is best for your family. 

Wife gets no part in the decision? Did you ask her before you posted this?

 

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

 At your age this is what you should be doing, taking charge. 

And there it is, folks. He's dropped trou and pulled out the measuring tape.

I'm not taking charge because I agree with doing everything we can to get people to help end the pandemic? So the only way I can take charge is to agree with you, beat my chest and say that people have a right to not follow scientific advice, even though it affects everyone else? 

 

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

In the last 2 days, both New Zealand and Australia have backed off of their ZERO COVID policies as that strategy was not working.  Here, in the US, we are following our Fearful Leader.

I guess it's a good thing we weren't trying it here, then?

 

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

46 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

In reference to the bolded sentence, can you please explain to me why going after those committing violence against airline employees is a bad thing?

Define violence.  Is it the same violence that the DOJ is investigating during school board meetings? It is essentially shutting down any dissension that may hurt his cause by intimidation.  It’s the same as FB, Twitter et al for censoring any alternative points of view.

53 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Good thing I don't depend on Biden for my information on the pandemic.

🤣 You’re so far up Biden’s policies you can’t see real life.

55 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

How about we just discuss the subject at hand, and not worry about any politicians, seeing as how the facts of Covid and vaccination aren't, you know, political.

Covid has been more political and less scientific since it arrived on our shores.  Forcing employees to get vaccinated by Biden’s OSHA requirements is nothing but political.

If it was not political a basketball player that has survived Covid and has natural immunity wouldn’t be required to get vaccinated to play his sport.

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

And I'll point out, again, that this is a decision that affects far more people than just that parent's kids.

Just give your kids to the government to raise and get it over with.

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Wife gets no part in the decision? Did you ask her before you posted this?

I’ve been married for 47 years to the same women.  What do you think?  As to the second part; she isn’t consulted on everything I do.

 

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

I'm not taking charge because I agree with doing everything we can to get people to help end the pandemic?

Isn’t that taking charge?  You are following what you think is best for you.  And I thought we were having a good conversation.  Your interpretations are interesting.

 

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

I guess it's a good thing we weren't trying it here, then?

What would you call a goal of 97-98% vaccination rate?

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

people have a right to not follow scientific advice

That’s is the American way.  It’s advice and a person can heed it or not.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

But I agree with Leftfield.  The general tone and tenor of your posts on this subject seem to be supporting the anti-vaxxers. 

I can understand the anti-vaxxers concerns.  Not all reasons are valid, but some are, as why would a person that has survived Covid with natural immunity required to have the vaccine.

 

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

"Personal choice" sounds like code for "I don't have to take it regardless if I have no medical reasons not to.

  You’re good at these triggers. Maybe you shouldn’t be so eager to *pounce*.

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's exactly why you are getting so much push back. This is more of an epidemiological issue, rather than one of "individual rights". 

Every time there is an emergency is the time we volunteer to give up our rights.  I’m just concerned it’s happening now.

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

This country is going insane with it's politically-based decision making and your posts are feeding it.

Mandating vaccines is the political act here.  Biden slow walked it by stating he would not mandate vaccines as late as last Spring.  Then when the numbers were not what he anticipated he gave up and instituted the mandate via OSHA.  Now people are being laid off from a political action Biden took.  Can you explain why Biden said he would like to see 97-98% of the population vaccinated before we can get back to normal?

[homersapien 11,381]

8 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I can understand the anti-vaxxers concerns.  Not all reasons are valid, but some are, as why would a person that has survived Covid with natural immunity required to have the vaccine.

 

  You’re good at these triggers. Maybe you shouldn’t be so eager to *pounce*.

Every time there is an emergency is the time we volunteer to give up our rights.  I’m just concerned it’s happening now.

Mandating vaccines is the political act here.  Biden slow walked it by stating he would not mandate vaccines as late as last Spring.  Then when the numbers were not what he anticipated he gave up and instituted the mandate via OSHA.  Now people are being laid off from a political action Biden took.  Can you explain why Biden said he would like to see 97-98% of the population vaccinated before we can get back to normal?

Vaccinations are not mandated.  A "mandate" presumes there is no choice.  As an individual, you have a choice.  (And trust me, businesses are very welcome to this mandate. It saves them $, which is their bottom line.) 

And Just look at how the vaccination rate has skyrocketed.  That just illustrates how many people were being mindless about it.  Thank goodness we have a leader that encourages people to do what is in their and the country's interest.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

Vaccinations are not mandated.  A "mandate" presumes there is no choice.  As an individual, you have a choice.  (And trust me, businesses are very welcome to this mandate. It saves them $, which is their bottom line.) 

And Just look at how the vaccination rate has skyrocketed.  That just illustrates how many people were being mindless about it.  Thank goodness we have a leader that encourages people to do what is in their and the country's interest.

 

You. Have. Got. To.  Be. Kidding.  Me!!!!

Did you just contradict yourself in the first two sentences?  I agree that Biden has not issued a mandate on nation wide level.  However, he has mandated the Federal employees to get the vaccine.  Our service members have a choice of getting vaccinated or possibly receive a dishonorable discharge.  One heck of a choice.

Biden has mentioned he is going to have OSHA to put these *mandates* in place for corporations of 100 people or more.  OSHA has not come up with any regulation yet, but, as you point out, the corporations are more than happy to *mandate* these draconian rules implied by the Biden administration.

Your assertion that the vaccination rate has skyrocketed is typical of the left’s thinking.  Is that you Jen?  When you make an employee decide between a vaccine, that they believe is not necessary for their particular age group or situation, and losing their livelihood as mindless is ludicrous.

You should actually look at the people that are sacrificing their livelihood for their beliefs.  In NC Novant laid off 185 workers for not being vaccinated.  NY State have even higher numbers.

 https://gothamist.com/news/northwell-health-lays-1400-employees-who-defied-covid-19-vaccine-mandate

By now we should be able to live with Covid as the Delta variant is waining in the south.  Yes, people should consider getting the vaccine, but to mandate it by Biden or the corporations is not American.

 Let’s Go Brandon 👏👏👏👏 👏

Edited October 9, 2021 by I_M4_AU