Harsin didn’t consider QB change in loss

[cole256 17,084]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Their mobility isn't an assumption, it's a known.

There were multiple plays in the backfield by Nix that extended plays. In his career, Finley has yet to show the ability to make similar plays.

You are a coach ...just because a qb is faster doesn't mean he'll take less sacks. I know you know that. And Finley hasn't played but he did show he isn't a statue by any means. For all we know tj may see a blitz coming and throw appropriately so he doesn't need to run around in circles and extend plays.

I don't care who comes and say it, it doesn't make any sense to say if this guy had played he would've been sacked ten times. 

[au302 2,669]

The whole TJ will get sacked constantly argument is worrisome. The guys this staff is recruiting, like TJ and Geriner, are not very mobile. This o-line is not great, but they are not that horrendous. TJ would not be the first pocket passer to play behind a below average line, so I think it's a little far fetched to say that it's a guarantee he will fail

Edited November 8, 2021 by au302

[eaglenest 332]

14 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i cannot believe TJ is that bad. he deserves a shot. i often wonder if harsin has pressure to play bo.

HE DOES!!!! HOW ELSE TO EXPLAIN IT.....

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,813]

6 hours ago, Hay Field 101 said:

Agreed. Hell sometimes i am just looking at the W_L numbers. I see A&M beating the reigning National Champs and the number one team in the country at that time and we didn't let them score an offensive touchdown so i reckon  that's my piss poor way of looking at it. I'm still scratching my head about Bo. And believe me I have ZERO place in this world to even attempt to discuss someone's quarter back skills.  He does remind me of Johnny Football sometimes. 

They have a talented defense certainly, but it wasn't one of those that had everything figured. Either they'd be bad at running or bad at passing against some of the better offenses. And those better offenses had defined philosophies, which we STILL don't have. I think that game was more about us than them. MSU got 26 (on Kyle Field)...they know pass. Arky got 20...they know run. We don't know s***, to be honest. We can't commit to being a intermediate-deep pass to open up the run. We don't seem to know how to use Shivers outside of 3rd down blocking or as a passing outlet, which A&M accounted for. Don't seem to know how to use the other two backs in passing consistently at all. Not to even talk about the passing routes and plays as they apply to receivers. 

 

Honestly, outside of TEs, I don't know if there's any position that's optimized in the entire ******* offense. And it's just sad that with almost a month of reprieve with two terrible defenses and a bye week, we still don't have a good counterpunch to a good defense. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,813]

29 minutes ago, au302 said:

The whole TJ will get sacked constantly argument is worrisome. The guys this staff is recruiting, like TJ and Geriner, are not very mobile. This o-line is not great, but they are not that horrendous. TJ would not be the first pocket passer to play behind a below average line, so I think it's a little far fetched to say that it's a guarantee he will fail

I mean we literally saw the guy in the worst offensive showing of the ENTIRE season come in cold down double digits and manage the pocket better than the 3 year starter has in any game except the Arky game. 

I just don't know why people are valuing some practice rumors from 4 months ago over tape we've seen. Even if someone wanted to use his freshman mistakes, I'd value that more than fall camp rumors  

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,813]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

You are a coach ...just because a qb is faster doesn't mean he'll take less sacks. I know you know that. And Finley hasn't played but he did show he isn't a statue by any means. For all we know tj may see a blitz coming and throw appropriately so he doesn't need to run around in circles and extend plays.

I don't care who comes and say it, it doesn't make any sense to say if this guy had played he would've been sacked ten times. 

Dude had a free blitzer coming right in his face multiple times and consistently found the outlet vs GSU. And like you're saying, he has more than enough wheels for a bigger pocket passer. 

[eaglenest 332]

13 hours ago, alexava said:

Why would he be pressured to play Bo? Who would do it? This idea has never made a bit sense to me from day 1. Here it still keeps coming up.

 

 

Have you seen Mike Tomlin pressor in regards to his name being considered for a college job? and what he said about it... 

[bigbird 60,580]

8 hours ago, cole256 said:

You are a coach ...just because a qb is faster doesn't mean he'll take less sacks. I know you know that. And Finley hasn't played but he did show he isn't a statue by any means. For all we know tj may see a blitz coming and throw appropriately so he doesn't need to run around in circles and extend plays.

I don't care who comes and say it, it doesn't make any sense to say if this guy had played he would've been sacked ten times. 

Do I think 10? No, hat's a bit hyperbolic. Do I think there would've been a increase in sacks allowed? Absolutely.

I don't think he's a statue, but he has yet to show the quickness and escapability necessary to avoid sacks, especially with free rushers in the same manner Nix has shown his entire career. 

I can say the same about Davis but in the opposite direction. Davis has shown dynamic pocket awareness and the requisite quickness and ability to work within and outside of the pocket to limit sacks. I believe that our sack numbers with Davis over Bo would either remain the same or even improve slightly.

It's okay to point out the weaknesses of backups just like it's okay to point to them for the starters. 

[twilli13 600]

18 hours ago, abw0004 said:

TJ would have been sacked 10 times in that game.  That could make it 10 times worse.  

At that point, game was over. 17-3, with no running game on offense. So no wouldnt have been worse. Outcome stays the same. I agree on not starting TJ for that reason. But I didnt suggest he should have started. Plus theres this thing called throwing the ball away Bo doesnt seem to understand exists. Perhaps TJ might 😀

[abw0004 10,134]

10 hours ago, auburnphan said:

Showing how he performed against A&M last year has zero value at all. He is on a different team, different offense, different coaches, and different play callers.  Not to mention the changes on A&M's defense with personnel.  This isn't baseball where you can base past experience off of facing the same pitcher.

At no point did I ever say that I think TJ would do better than Bo.  That is just another case where you are making assumptions.

See I do think it is fair to compare the Texas A&M game from last year though.  Texas A&M returned all of their starters from last year minus two on the defensive line.  LSU’s offensive line at worst is the same as Auburn’s offensive line as well as their receivers.  I think that would be fair to compare the amount of pressures (not to mention Texas A&M’s defense is even better this year).

[abw0004 10,134]

9 hours ago, cole256 said:

Just because he isn't as fast as Bo it's unfair to assume that he would take all these sacks just because. The little he did play he showed he's much more agile than most say about him and QB's can get the ball out. It's why just because a guy doesn't run a 4.4 doesn't equate to sacks. Theoretically Bo shouldn't be taking these sacks. 

But just like you'd have a post upset if anybody wrote about no you shouldn't just say stuff about another player.

And I don't think Bo should constantly get pulled personally

TJ’s agility came against undersized defensive GSU linemen though.  The best eye test would have been from his freshmen year against this same defense we just faced (all returning players minus two on the DL).  Auburn and LSU’s offensive lines are at the minimum comparable.

Regarding the second to last paragraph, Bo is my man crush.  Of course I will defend him.  Although I really haven’t had much back and forth with anyone the back half of this year on anything.  Just not enough time with the tax law changes from Congress.  

[DAG 34,034]

8 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

TJ’s agility came against undersized defensive GSU linemen though.  The best eye test would have been from his freshmen year against this same defense we just faced (all returning players minus two on the DL).  Auburn and LSU’s offensive lines are at the minimum comparable.

Regarding the second to last paragraph, Bo is my man crush.  Of course I will defend him.  Although I really haven’t had much back and forth with anyone the back half of this year on anything.  Just not enough time with the tax law changes from Congress.  

You still can be objective man crush or not. With that being said, I am not vowing we bench Bo. 

[cole256 17,084]

57 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Do I think 10? No, hat's a bit hyperbolic. Do I think there would've been a increase in sacks allowed? Absolutely.

I don't think he's a statue, but he has yet to show the quickness and escapability necessary to avoid sacks, especially with free rushers in the same manner Nix has shown his entire career. 

I can say the same about Davis but in the opposite direction. Davis has shown dynamic pocket awareness and the requisite quickness and ability to work within and outside of the pocket to limit sacks. I believe that our sack numbers with Davis over Bo would either remain the same or even improve slightly.

It's okay to point out the weaknesses of backups just like it's okay to point to them for the starters. 

Nah. Like I said it's not a weakness that has been shown. If somebody would've said Bo is going to fumble ten times before he played it would be you're a Bo hater.

I haven't looked but I don't automatically think that Tom Brady has been sacked more than Jackson. And I know Jackson moves faster than Brady backwards with his eyes close.

When we played GA st Bo was taking sacks but when tj came in it didn't equate to well tj definitely couldn't play......it equated to we finally are moving the ball. But ok

[Hay Field 101 632]

12 hours ago, aubaseball said:

Bo doesn’t come close to Johnny football.   Bo is Johnny football lite.  Johnny football was cool under pressure and two remarkable years in college.  

I did say sometimes. my very last word in my sentence. I was referring to the curl back running ducking and dodging type stuff.

[bigbird 60,580]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Nah. Like I said it's not a weakness that has been shown. If somebody would've said Bo is going to fumble ten times before he played it would be you're a Bo hater.

I haven't looked but I don't automatically think that Tom Brady has been sacked more than Jackson. And I know Jackson moves faster than Brady backwards with his eyes close.

When we played GA st Bo was taking sacks but when tj came in it didn't equate to well tj definitely couldn't play......it equated to we finally are moving the ball. But ok

Agree to disagree

[cole256 17,084]

16 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

TJ’s agility came against undersized defensive GSU linemen though.  The best eye test would have been from his freshmen year against this same defense we just faced (all returning players minus two on the DL).  Auburn and LSU’s offensive lines are at the minimum comparable.

Regarding the second to last paragraph, Bo is my man crush.  Of course I will defend him.  Although I really haven’t had much back and forth with anyone the back half of this year on anything.  Just not enough time with the tax law changes from Congress.  

What does undersized linemen have to do with it? I didn't see tj take hits but he ran people over and they couldn't get him down. What I saw was he got the ball out so fast they didn't get to him.mostly. And I don't believe last year would be a good indicator for either qb, or there wouldn't be hope for either. The whole theme of hope is how the QB's and offense in general has improved so much with this coaching. 

And I really don't understand the man crush stuff. Just because he's your crush doesn't mean you have to down the other guy. Yes you are very good at your PR with Bo and more power to you. I'm just saying just because Bo had trouble doesn't automatically equate to then tj couldn't possibly do it.

It's more to the game of football than that. It's not guaranteed but it's possible that maybe he is seeing the field better, maybe he's not frustrated, clearly tj showed that he's fine under pressure. 

[DAG 34,034]

I am not even worried about the sacks as much as the accuracy. TJ has way better velocity and much stronger arm but even in the Georgia state game there were some key misses. He did provide some adrenaline for sure. I just want QBs who can make the dang basic throw 90 percent of the time. The same with WRs catching the ball. It’s really the little things holding us back. That’s the frustrating part. Making the basic throw , catching passes such as slants, making lay up field goals. Got to get better at the little things against top tier opponents. 

[abw0004 10,134]

10 minutes ago, cole256 said:

What does undersized linemen have to do with it? I didn't see tj take hits but he ran people over and they couldn't get him down. What I saw was he got the ball out so fast they didn't get to him.mostly. And I don't believe last year would be a good indicator for either qb, or there wouldn't be hope for either. The whole theme of hope is how the QB's and offense in general has improved so much with this coaching. 

And I really don't understand the man crush stuff. Just because he's your crush doesn't mean you have to down the other guy. Yes you are very good at your PR with Bo and more power to you. I'm just saying just because Bo had trouble doesn't automatically equate to then tj couldn't possibly do it.

It's more to the game of football than that. It's not guaranteed but it's possible that maybe he is seeing the field better, maybe he's not frustrated, clearly tj showed that he's fine under pressure. 

Then we will just agree to disagree then.  If the coaches think TJ could have done better they would have put him in by now.  There is something they are seeing from behind the scenes that tells them to stick with Bo.  And I like TJ.  I even got to meet his mother against Ole Miss.  I just happened to run into her as we were going into the stadium (she had a custom jersey that said she was his mom).

Edited November 8, 2021 by abw0004

[cole256 17,084]

Just now, DAG said:

I am not even worried about the sacks as much as the accuracy. TJ has way better velocity and much stronger arm but even in the Georgia state game there were some key misses. He did provide some adrenaline for sure. I just want QBs who can make the dang basic throw 90 percent of the time. The same with WRs catching the ball. It’s really the little things holding us back. That’s the frustrating part. Making the basic throw , catching passes such as slants, making lay up field goals. Got to get better at the little things against top tier opponents. 

I'm actually not sure about tj because co 's bad is so bad sometimes I just think tj practices must be pretty bad to not play. Sort of like I think canion must play horrible in practice to not over take Jackson because I see no purpose of Jackson playing in the redzone.

What I do know without a doubt that it doesn't equate to this guy is taller than this guy so he automatically takes more sacks. As a matter of fact it could have easily been complete one or two down field passes and the defensive isn't even playing as aggressive. 

I literally have posts here pointing out months ago that defenses would play us just like this because it's common sense. If we show something different we get played different. And talking about Bo like that will damn near come with an automatic ban. 

But once again I don't necessarily know tj would perform better because it really shouldn't be too hard to replace Bo. He must not be performing that well. So I'm not in the bench Bo all the time group personally

[cole256 17,084]

3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Then we will just agree to disagree then.  If the coaches think TJ could have done better they would have put him in by now.  There is something they are seeing from behind the scenes that tells them to stick with Bo.  And I like TJ.  I even got to meet his mother against Ole Miss.  I just happened to run into her as we were going into the stadium (she had a custom jersey that said she was his mom).

I have said as much. I'm just pointing out how it's not as simple as hey if this guy had trouble with pressure thenautomatically this guy will. There's much more to it than that. And there's always the possibility that Bo brings a bunch of the trouble on to himself so there's not even a certainty that they both even have trouble.

But yes we can agree to disagree, but just like it's ok to disagree with me it's ok for other people to disagree with others. It's no problem at all

[aubiefifty 17,073]

9 hours ago, eaglenest said:

HE DOES!!!! HOW ELSE TO EXPLAIN IT.....

i have no idea but i caught some grief over that statement  lol

[aubaseball 2,670]

15 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I'm actually not sure about tj because co 's bad is so bad sometimes I just think tj practices must be pretty bad to not play. Sort of like I think canion must play horrible in practice to not over take Jackson because I see no purpose of Jackson playing in the redzone.

What I do know without a doubt that it doesn't equate to this guy is taller than this guy so he automatically takes more sacks. As a matter of fact it could have easily been complete one or two down field passes and the defensive isn't even playing as aggressive. 

I literally have posts here pointing out months ago that defenses would play us just like this because it's common sense. If we show something different we get played different. And talking about Bo like that will damn near come with an automatic ban. 

But once again I don't necessarily know tj would perform better because it really shouldn't be too hard to replace Bo. He must not be performing that well. So I'm not in the bench Bo all the time group personally

Here is my thoughts.   I believe Bo brings a little more flexibility to the offense as far as QB runs, thus, a bigger play book on running the ball.   I haven’t seen a whole lot of TJ film but what I have seen is a guy that can make every throw but is inconsistent with his arm.   I don’t think that there is enough of a separation that would warrant one guy getting all the snaps during a game if the other one is having an off day.   

I do think that Harsin thought Auburn was still in excellent position to win Saturday when the game was 9 -3 and wasn’t willing to take a chance on a change.   I thought it was warranted, but I’m not the coach.   

[johnnyAU 3,668]

I haven't had a chance to watch the game, but I did listen to it. Given the stats themselves, and our inability to move the ball effectively I cannot see why giving TJ a couple of series late in the game just to give the O a spark wouldn't have been a good idea.

[AUAlumnTN 211]

19 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

I haven't had a chance to watch the game, but I did listen to it. Given the stats themselves, and our inability to move the ball effectively I cannot see why giving TJ a couple of series late in the game just to give the O a spark wouldn't have been a good idea.

For the same reason that putting new tires on the same station wagon won’t make it go faster. Changing QBs is not a magic cure-all that immediately fixes any and all offensive woes. We lacked a coherent and cohesive game plan and never adjusted to fix that. The offensive line got very little push in the run game. Receivers struggled to get open. The list goes on. Very few QBs in college football are good enough to overcome that many problems in the face of a talented and disciplined defense and I don’t believe anyone on our roster currently fits the description. We lost this game from Tuesday to Friday in the offensive meeting rooms and practice fields

Edited November 8, 2021 by AUAlumnTN

[TigerFanAU 586]

Nix should've been benched. He responded well the last time it happened. He was clearly rattled and a head case.