I think we have to root for Calzada

[AUght2win 6,837]

37 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Right now I'm wishing Bo Nix was still at AU.

Absolutely. He would have had his best year.

Which is why it’s that much worse how he left us high and dry. May be petty but I’m kind of loving he’s losing the battle for QB1 at Oregon. His family framed him coming to Auburn as “he had better offers elsewhere, but he chose Auburn”. As if we were lucky to have him and undeserving to have such a talent.

Looking like that may not have been the case. Humble pie with duck sauce.

[AUght2win 6,837]

50 minutes ago, Potatooooooes!! said:

I haven’t seen his comments, so I can’t really speak to that, but if he’s a long term project there’s a reason for that. Let’s not forget, Harsin is the one that went out and got Ashford, so he obviously values his skill set; he just might need more coaching to be useful on the field other than being an obvious package guy. 
 

As for the other comment, see my woefully longer post

Here’s a scenario I’d be interested to hear your choice on. Thinking in grading terms by individual attribute, Madden style.

QB 1: B+ arm, B accuracy, F runner

QB 2: B arm, C+ accuracy, B+ runner

Based on aggregate, are you taking QB1 or QB2? If the difference in passing skill is definite, but minor, while the difference in running ability is major, do you still take the pure pocket passer?

[Potatooooooes!! 1,375]

1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

This is all good stuff. But their points are all strawman arguments. I agree running QBs don’t typically work in the NFL. Neither do scat-backs like McCalebb. But the college game is completely different and it’s totally off-topic to try to discount the blueprint of running QBs because the pros don’t like them. It’s irrelevant to Auburn winning games at the college level.

Another strawman is that it’s a black or white issue. You don’t have to “prefer” your quarterback to run OVER pass. That’s like asking a baseball manager if they “prefer” their pitchers throw curveballs over fastballs. You incorporate both to whatever ratio you see fit. Some guys may throw a great curveball throw them half the time. Some may be flamethrowers and only them three times a game. Same with a mobile QB.

And for the record, I’m not against pocket passers. In the long term, when we have depth and talent, I would love it. I’ve always wanted to see a real passing attack at Auburn. I’m just of the mind that you have to use what you’ve got to mold your offense to what will be most successful with your current roster. 

Is that leaning on the QB run? I have no idea. I just hope that’s at least on the table for Harsin.

I agree with all of this. And I’ve tried to make it known that it’s just not a black and white issue. I should have been more clear. I don’t think you and I really disagree. In a game, you go with what works and what wins, but that’s dictated on the field, in the moment. If I were a coach, I would definitely call some designed runs to take advantage of my Qb’s legs, but only if the defense is giving me the space, or if I’ve conditioned them to respect something else. But I am at the mercy of what I have, so if he can’t throw then there’s not much I can do to be successful, but I have to find a way to stretch the field. I’ll rely on my running back a lot and hope my O-Line is really good at run blocking. But I will have to have the Qb run more; it’s just not likely to get me much. But if you gave me two identical qbs with identical measurables, intangibles, and skills, but one could run and the other couldn’t, I’d take the runner. More skills is not often a bad thing. But I personally would make sure he knows to be a passer first.

One thing I will say, I truly believe Harsin and his staff have a game plan they want to implement as far as direction, and part of that is their desire to play to the strengths of their current players. So I really don’t believe anything is off the table for him. And it’s great.

[Potatooooooes!! 1,375]

25 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Here’s a scenario I’d be interested to hear your choice on. Thinking in grading terms by individual attribute, Madden style.

QB 1: B+ arm, B accuracy, F runner

QB 2: B arm, C+ accuracy, B+ runner

Based on aggregate, are you taking QB1 or QB2? If the difference in passing skill is definite, but minor, while the difference in running ability is major, do you still take the pure pocket passer?

Are we talking a recruit or a final product?

If they’re recruits, I’m taking option two and bumping up his accuracy. If we’re talking final products on my roster that have hit their ceiling (and are identical everywhere else):

I’m going to assume both can get the ball to about the same parts of the field. Qb 1 really isn’t much more accurate than QB 2, and QB 2 potentially has that playmaker ability if stuff breaks down. For me, it’s honestly going to depend on the rest of the team and offensive philosophy. If I have a Bama style supporting cast with a wall of an O-line and speedy receivers that are always open with elite speed that will catch anything, then I’m going with QB 1 10/10 times. Nothing against QB 2, but he just won’t help me be as efficient and competitive as possible. Now if I have a typical Auburn team with a spotty O-line and inconsistent receiver play at best, then I’m going with option 2 10/10 times. 

[au302 2,669]

Moral of the story. Bo Nix is not at AU and is not coming back. OL is still not good, but solid in pass pro. Whoever wins the job must be able to stretch the field and hit deep balls. Harsin is not against a QB's legs, but he wants them to stand in and look to pass first and not run unless they have to.

None of our QB's are "runners" that are fit for Gus's 2013 offense; however, those talents don't grow off trees, and we have not run that offense in almost a decade. But, the three besides Finley are "mobile". They can move within the pocket and pick up 5-10 yards when a play breaks down, which is what we need. Hell, even Finley can get you 5 yards here and there

[ThurstontheWelshCorgi 576]

On 4/5/2022 at 2:59 PM, bigbird said:

@ThurstontheWelshCorgi, great to see you around. Where've you been?

Trying to lay low during the off-season but you keep triggering me since I've got unwavering Malzahness in my blood still so I'm at least showing up with some emoticons but not going full Mikey. Good to be back nonetheless! 

[AUght2win 6,837]

2 hours ago, Potatooooooes!! said:

Are we talking a recruit or a final product?

If they’re recruits, I’m taking option two and bumping up his accuracy. If we’re talking final products on my roster that have hit their ceiling (and are identical everywhere else):

I’m going to assume both can get the ball to about the same parts of the field. Qb 1 really isn’t much more accurate than QB 2, and QB 2 potentially has that playmaker ability if stuff breaks down. For me, it’s honestly going to depend on the rest of the team and offensive philosophy. If I have a Bama style supporting cast with a wall of an O-line and speedy receivers that are always open with elite speed that will catch anything, then I’m going with QB 1 10/10 times. Nothing against QB 2, but he just won’t help me be as efficient and competitive as possible. Now if I have a typical Auburn team with a spotty O-line and inconsistent receiver play at best, then I’m going with option 2 10/10 times. 

I’m of the exact same mind. The mobile guy can counter deficiencies. But if you have a truly great, balanced team then yeah distribute the ball to playmakers and keep your QB upright. 

[AUght2win 6,837]

2 hours ago, au302 said:

Moral of the story. Bo Nix is not at AU and is not coming back. OL is still not good, but solid in pass pro. Whoever wins the job must be able to stretch the field and hit deep balls. Harsin is not against a QB's legs, but he wants them to stand in and look to pass first and not run unless they have to.

None of our QB's are "runners" that are fit for Gus's 2013 offense; however, those talents don't grow off trees, and we have not run that offense in almost a decade. But, the three besides Finley are "mobile". They can move within the pocket and pick up 5-10 yards when a play breaks down, which is what we need. Hell, even Finley can get you 5 yards here and there

No, Ashford can move better than advertised which surprised me. Runs a 4.59 forty. Goes 80 yards in second highlight.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by AUght2win

[bigbird 60,525]

12 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Bird (saying only service academies prefer running QBs)

Quote where I said that.

[bigbird 60,525]

On 4/5/2022 at 9:31 AM, bigbird said:

And yet there isn't a faction against CBH...

@Tigerbelle, I find it funny people deny it too.  Good to see you around now 

[homersapien 11,373]

Good discussion on QBs in general and TJ in particular:

 

[DAG 33,982]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

@Tigerbelle, I find it funny people deny it too.  Good to see you around now 

Well some of them are trying their bestest to clean it up now and play objective . That is, of course, until the first hint of some sort of adversity. It’s quite funny to see the complete 180 a handful of people are displaying. 

[AUght2win 6,837]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

Quote where I said that.

“Name one coach outside of the service academies and flex-bone teams that prefer their QB to "intentionally" run.”

[abw0004 10,113]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

Quote where I said that.

⬇️

On 4/5/2022 at 3:14 PM, bigbird said:

I, bigbird, am saying only service academies prefer running QBs.  Feel free to quote me on this in the future.

Also, does anyone else find themselves strangely attracted to @abw0004?  I don't know where this site would be without him and his vast football knowledge.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by abw0004

[cbo 7,850]

15 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Here’s a scenario I’d be interested to hear your choice on. Thinking in grading terms by individual attribute, Madden style.

QB 1: B+ arm, B accuracy, F runner

QB 2: B arm, C+ accuracy, B+ runner

Based on aggregate, are you taking QB1 or QB2? If the difference in passing skill is definite, but minor, while the difference in running ability is major, do you still take the pure pocket passer?

This is a weird question because there is almost no difference in arm and accuracy, but a huge difference in running ability. Anyone would take QB 2. 

I honestly haven't read most of this thread and I'm not going to, but I find it hard to believe that the posters you mentioned have stated they do not value running ability in a QB, all else relatively equal. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, cbo said:

I'm not going to

This is why you're smarter than most of us. 

[AUght2win 6,837]

7 minutes ago, cbo said:

This is a weird question because there is almost no difference in arm and accuracy, but a huge difference in running ability. Anyone would take QB 2. 

I honestly haven't read most of this thread and I'm not going to, but I find it hard to believe that the posters you mentioned have stated they do not value running ability in a QB, all else relatively equal. 

Well, there’s your problem. You don’t have to believe me if you’d read through a couple pages.

It’s also a realistic scenario. Do you want a guy who can make a few more throws (QB1) or a guy who you can run with (QB2). If you’re running strictly a pro style you go with QB1. If you want to run more of a read offense you go with QB2. 

[cbo 7,850]

17 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

This is why you're smarter than most of us. 

On rare occasions.

[bigbird 60,525]

20 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Bird (saying only service academies prefer running QBs)

Quote where I said that.

 

4 hours ago, AUght2win said:

“Name one coach outside of the service academies and flex-bone teams that prefer their QB to "intentionally" run.”

You do realize, besides completely missing the point and focusing on the wrong word, that what you just quoted proves that you initially misquoted me, right?

[AUght2win 6,837]

14 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Quote where I said that.

 

You do realize, besides completely missing the point and focusing on the wrong word, that what you just quoted proves that you initially misquoted me, right?

Bird, sincerely, you need to be more direct with what you’re saying. You aren’t a good enough wordsmith to hold a conversation via vague hypotheticals or precise language. Just say what you want to say.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you meant that only service academies prefer running QBs.

But if you wanted me to take your question literally, it isn’t coherent, regardless of what word has emphasis.

Either:

A. You’re arguing a strawman - that coaches have to “prefer” their QBs to either run or pass.

or B. Coaches don’t like to “intentionally” run their QBs. Which is also ludicrous. Of course some coaches intentionally run their QBs.

[AuburnNTexas 7,147]

19 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Here’s a scenario I’d be interested to hear your choice on. Thinking in grading terms by individual attribute, Madden style.

QB 1: B+ arm, B accuracy, F runner

QB 2: B arm, C+ accuracy, B+ runner

Based on aggregate, are you taking QB1 or QB2? If the difference in passing skill is definite, but minor, while the difference in running ability is major, do you still take the pure pocket passer?

Depends on O-Line and what Offense they are running, plus how well QB reads Defense and how quick makes decision and releases the ball.  

[AUght2win 6,837]

6 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Depends on O-Line and what Offense they are running, plus how well QB reads Defense and how quick makes decision and releases the ball.  

In this hypothetical you can build the offense around either, it isn’t set in stone. Reading and all other intangibles relatively the same between both QBs.

[Didba 5,256]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

Good discussion on QBs in general and TJ in particular:

 

bro yes, I was literally gonna post this, everyone in this thread needs to listen to this

[AUght2win 6,837]

Interesting nugget: https://247sports.com/Article/Auburn-transfer-QB-Dematrius-Davis-sends-parting-message-186319219/

When Dee left he was convinced it was a 2 horse race between Zach and TJ. But we have to remember Dee left pretty early in spring. It’s possible Dee missed Ashford gaining his footing, and never saw the version of RA we saw in the A-Day game.

I definitely HOPE RA is in the mix, anyway. Calzada is still largely an unknown, but if we had to play tomorrow I’d hope we would start Robbie. Just still don’t see it from TJ.

[wcware 1,365]

I wish the coaches would realize we always need to start the backup QB here at Auburn. He is always better than the starter, but what happens once you start the backup, because now he is the starter which now means the other guy is better. This is why we can’t win championships.