The laying of hands

[TexasTiger 13,138]

45 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Your topic is BS. Fact is the man is walking free and be our next president.

Yeehaw! Have another round, Salty! 

[SaltyTiger 7,914]

13 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Yeehaw! Have another round, Salty! 

Not tonight Tex. 7:30 grinding round one for crown in the morning. Just in from coast. Emboldened by seeing Trump Store open.

[TexasTiger 13,138]

3 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not tonight Tex. 7:30 grinding round one for crown in the morning. Just in from coast. Emboldened by seeing Trump Store open.

Trumpland right around the corner!! No more messy democratic & legal norms is in sight!! Crown, hell, Salty, that’s worth a drink!

[SaltyTiger 7,914]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Trumpland right around the corner!! No more messy democratic & legal norms is in sight!! Crown, hell, Salty, that’s worth a drink!

They were sold out of MAGA hats.

[TexasTiger 13,138]

2 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

They were sold out of MAGA hats.

Supply chain issues with Chyyyynna!

[SaltyTiger 7,914]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Supply chain issues with Chyyyynna!

Embroidery in USA

[pensacolatiger 313]

3 hours ago, Leftfield said:

I'm glad you weren't posting anything about that "experimental" vaccine the other day, then.

I responded to someone asking if I got vaccinated after I already had covid🤣

[Leftfield 2,716]

1 hour ago, pensacolatiger said:

I responded to someone asking if I got vaccinated after I already had covid🤣

I didn't ask you that until after you'd called it experimental.

[DKW 86 7,481]

22 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

So you compromise a commandment with what you feel is the modern “need” for everyone to get along.  The question stands - what other commandments do you feel are not necessary to follow?

You are in error Sir. The TTC was OT and for OT believers. Christ fulfilled the sacrifice and atonement. We need to first believe and then we should willingly follow his teachings. Now, in reality, we will fail daily in this as humans do. 

As for the TTC, as a Christian,

1) Have no other Gods before me. In America, we have the trumpsters that do indeed have another "God" before them. They absolutely forsaken their govt, an institution ordained of God in Genesis.
2)Make No Idols...I would submit that in America we build up false idols and worship all the time.  Again MAGA being one. Football Teams, Taylor Swift, K-Pop Stars, Musk, Anyone named Clinton or Kardashian....
3) How many times have you seen this broken in the movies etc?
4) We arguably do not follow the Jewish Sabbath. We dont even follow the same Day Pattern as the Jews so we all break that one.
5) As a nation, we do not honor our fathers nor mothers. In Jewish Custom, we are talking OT here, we do not take our parents in and care for them. We push them off into often hell hole nursing homes. 
9) This is the political forum. Everybody and I mean everybody bears false witness here almost everyday. We see one side or the other come in here with some BS talking point that is easily proven to be nothing more than hyperbole everyday. I wont bother to list the insanity here.

Now, what were we talking about?

Edited October 25, 2022 by DKW 86

[pensacolatiger 313]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

You are in error Sir. The TTC was OT and for OT believers. Christ fulfilled the sacrifice and atonement. We need to first believe and then we should willingly follow his teachings. Now, in reality, we will fail daily in this as humans do. 

As for the TTC, as a Christian,

1) Have no other Gods before me. In America, we have the trumpsters that do indeed have another "God" before them. They absolutely forsaken their govt, an institution ordained of God in Genesis.
2)Make No Idols...I would submit that in America we build up false idols and worship all the time.  Again MAGA being one. Football Teams, Taylor Swift, K-Pop Stars, Musk, Anyone named Clinton or Kardashian....
3) How many times have you seen this broken in the movies etc?
4) We arguably do not follow the Jewish Sabbath. We dont even follow the same Day Pattern as the Jews so we all break that one.
5) As a nation, we do not honor our fathers nor mothers. In Jewish Custom, we are talking OT here, we do not take our parents in and care for them. We push them off into often hell hole nursing homes. 
9) This is the political forum. Everybody and I mean everybody bears false witness here almost everyday. We see one side or the other come in here with some BS talking point that is easily proven to be nothing more than hyperbole everyday. I wont bother to list the insanity here.

Now, what were we talking about?

So your answer is you don’t think the Ten Commandments matter or are applicable to today’s society.  What kind of church do you attend?

[pensacolatiger 313]

11 hours ago, Leftfield said:

I didn't ask you that until after you'd called it experimental.

Well - look at the typical vaccine development schedule.  5-10 years is the normal clip

[homersapien 11,513]

18 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

But the atheist was telling me I shouldn’t talk about religion🤣

Really? Care to quote that?  

Liar

[homersapien 11,513]

Right-wing roadshow promotes Christian nationalism before midterms

By Annie Gowen

October 23, 2022

 

MANHEIM, Pa. — At the end, after former president Donald Trump called in to energize the troops, more than 100 people lined up to be baptized.

Some had driven hours for the two-day ReAwaken America Tour in the leafy Pennsylvania countryside. Some had paid up to $500 for VIP tickets. They were 5,000 strong, celebratory but angry about where the country is headed. They said they believed the 2020 election was stolen, that vaccines kill people and that America — both its moral and civic foundation — is headed for complete collapse.

Now they were waiting to be baptized in a black plastic animal trough, leaving the water soaked and shivering — newly cleansed soldiers in their war for America.

Since April of last year, the ReAwaken America Tour has brought hardline-election deniers, anti-vaccine doctors, self-proclaimed prophets and conspiracy theorists to enthusiastic crowds across the country. The central message is that America’s white, evangelical Christian way of life is under threat from the globalist cabal on the “woke” left.

The traveling carnival of misinformation merges entertainment, politics and theology and makes the existential argument to those attending: The debate is no longer about Republican vs. Democrat, they say, it’s about good vs. evil. And it’s time to pick a side.

Since its inception, the tour has been denounced by mainstream religious leaders because of its extremist views. Its organizers have been forced to move venues twice — in New York and Washington state — due to community concerns. The Anti-Defamation League has targeted it in a report.

This stop at a sports complex in Pennsylvania was the penultimate of the midterm season organizers hope will result in a “red wave” of victory for Republicans.

“We face a battle in our country,” retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser turned election denier, told the crowd. “I mean, Christianity is under attack. Honestly, it feels like everything is under attack.”

For Johanna Grassia, an artist from Philadelphia, her baptism Friday was the culmination of a two-year journey that began during the pandemic when she fell into a deep depression, began following the ReAwaken tour online and left both the Catholic Church and the Democratic Party. She became a Republican the day that Doug Mastriano — the conservative state senator who is Pennsylvania’s GOP nominee for governor — declared his candidacy in January.

“I feel more confident now,” Grassia said as she emerged dripping from the ice-cold water. “My eyes have been opened.”

For two days, the mostly white, middle-aged crowd at the Spooky Nook Sports complex cheered, prayed and danced, listening to speakers like the former president’s son Eric Trump, pillow company owner and election conspiracist Mike Lindell and Simone Gold, an anti-vaccine doctor recently released from jail after pleading guilty to trespassing during the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol. They blew ram’s horns. They donned sparkly Trump caps and T-shirts proclaiming “Jesus is my King, Trump is my President.”

Nearly every presenter had something to sell — a book (Flynn), a new health program (Gold), immune-boosting vitamins, blankets that promise to ward off radioactive waves, travel-sized vials of anointing oil, a glittery $500 handbag in the shape of a revolver. Roger Stone — Trump’s former adviser, pardoned after his 2019 conviction for witness tampering and lying to Congress — collected money for his legal fees in a trash bag.

In this world, as Lindell put it, elections are now “selections,” fact-checkers are now “fake checkers,” coronavirus is still the “coronavirus” and Trump is still the rightful president.

“Does anybody in this room not think that we won Pennsylvania?” Eric Trump asked the crowd, eliciting a roar. “It was the biggest fraud.”

No substantive fraud was found in Pennsylvania or any other state in the 2020 election, despite dozens of claims and court suits; Joe Biden won 7 million more votes than Trump. Nonetheless, the younger Trump brought down the house when he dialed up his dad on speaker phone.

“We love you,” the former president told the crowd, his voice echoing through the hall. “We’re going to bring this country back because I think our country has never been in such bad shape as it is now.”

The chant went up: “Trump-Trump-Trump!”

After Trump’s remarks, two women — a hairstylist, Nancy, 74, and Sandy, 72, a retired saleswoman — said they came to the event out of a desire for community with like-minded people as well as a shared sense of despair over the direction of American society. Both women asked that their last names not be used due to the sensitive subject matter.

Nancy dismissed the state of the nation with an expletive, adding: “And we have a ridiculous president. Because the liberals are in charge right now, and with the courts? Everything is corrupt.”

Both have battled their mainline Protestant churches over church support of the Black Lives Matter movement and LGBTQ clergy, which they say has had a profound impact on their lives, worsening their feelings of alienation and doom. Sandy left her church altogether and now watches services of a small Methodist church on Facebook led by two men who teach the Bible without any of that “new culture garbage,” as she put it.

“The whole fabric of society is being taken down,” Sandy said.

Several former Catholics who waited in line for the baptism also described quitting their longtime churches over covid restrictions. “God doesn’t close,” said Linda Lindsey, 50, of Freeland, Pa.

A growing number of Republicans are embracing the ideology of Christian nationalism, which advocates the fusion of American civic life with a particular kind of white, conservative Christianity, according to Samuel Perry, an associate professor of sociology at the University of Oklahoma and the co-author of the book “The Flag and the Cross: White Christian Nationalism and the Threat to American Democracy.”

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) sells T-shirts that proclaim “Proud Christian nationalist.” Trump-endorsed Mastriano — who was seen at the Capitol on Jan. 6 although he says he left before the riot began — has made Christian nationalist ideology a centerpiece of his campaign, although he has rejected the term. At a recent campaign stop for Mastriano in Pittsburgh, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) urged the crowd to “put on the full armor of God” and “take a stand against the left’s schemes.”

The midterm contests, Perry said, are a testing ground of “whether this Christian nationalist rhetoric will work in competitive elections.”

ReAwaken America is the creation of Clay Clark, 41, an energetic Tulsa-area businessman who previously ran a DJ business and a men’s grooming lounge. He rose to prominence in right-wing circles during the early months of the pandemic, when he and others sued Tulsa to revoke the city’s mask mandate. In 2021, he and Flynn partnered to launch their first conference.

Clark was “pretty much a nobody, this small-time entrepreneur in Oklahoma,” who had made a name for himself protesting against covid mandates, said Katie McCarthy, a researcher at the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism, which issued a report on the movement last year. The first conference was such a success — attracting a “Who’s Who of the far right” — that the founders rebranded it as ReAwaken America and took to the road, she said.

The tour has now gone to 16 cities, been attended by thousands, draws up to 1 million viewers online and has baptized more than 4,000 “patriots for Christ,” Clark said.

Tickets are pay-what-you can. Most spend between $65 and $70, Clark says, meaning organizers just “break even” on the event. But he sells books and T-shirts and has his own legal fees to worry about — he was sued for defamation by a former Dominion Voting Systems executive over Clark’s unfounded claims that the 2020 election was rigged.

“My number one goal is to lead people to Jesus,” Clark said. “When you start paying attention you realize: ‘Wow, there is a God and there is Satan, I should probably pick a side. It’s bigger than Republican or Democrat.”

Mainstream faith leaders have banded together to speak out against ReAwaken America, saying its message contradicts the core teachings of Jesus and of the Christian faith. When community uproar recently forced Clark to move a tour stop from Rochester to Batavia N.Y., the Faithful America coalition of religious groups denounced it as a “toxic, two-day parade of right-wing preachers, MAGA celebrities and QAnon conspiracy theorists” spreading misinformation to thousands “in Jesus’s name.”

“They’re stirring up hatred and paranoia by promoting this idea that America has been corrupted by nefarious entities — the left, LGBTQ, science,” McCarthy said. “Then they tell people to stand up and reclaim what has been lost to fight back against these perceived enemies.”

Many speakers in Manheim, including Flynn, called for spiritual warfare, even as they avoided calling directly for physical violence.

“Are you ready to go to war for the Lord Jesus Christ?” Mark Burns, a South Carolina minister who was a member of Trump’s faith advisory council, thundered from the stage at one point. “It’s time to take our country back.”

“I’m not trying to talk about physical war, physical attacks,” Burns clarified. “Unless you’re trying to take our guns, that’s something I can’t promise.” Then, he added, “I’m joking.”

Clark said that anyone who advocated physical violence would be immediately removed from the stage. But misinformation flowed unimpeded. There were Doomsday prophets, anti-vaccine agitators casting doubt on all childhood vaccines, and a currency expert who predicted that the American monetary system could collapse by Thanksgiving and that Trump would be reinstalled as president by the end of the year.

“I always tell people that come to the event is that I allow the speakers to speak,” Clark said. “I encourage [the listeners] to ask themselves: ‘Is it fact based?’ ‘Is it biblical?’” He takes little responsibility for the river of untruths, saying that some speakers are not for everyone.

For all the trumpet-sounding and talk of spiritual warfare, when Flynn — known as “America’s General” here — took the stage, his marching orders were more prosaic. He asked the crowd to get involved in local elections and predicted a “red wave” of victory for Republican candidates like Mastriano, who was on the bill but was a no-show.

Flynn and his wife, Lori, recently took poll watcher training, he said, part of his “local action” plan to take over the country for Republicans from the ground up. Flynn was also recently elected to Florida’s Sarasota County Republican Executive Committee, along with a member of the extremist group the Proud Boys.

“Right now, we are at a crucible moment in our country,” Flynn said. “The destiny of this country will be decided … in the next couple of days.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/10/23/right-wing-election-turnout/

[Leftfield 2,716]

11 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

Well - look at the typical vaccine development schedule.  5-10 years is the normal clip

And? 

Have you read a single article on the development of this vaccine? If you had, you'd probably have seen that mRNA vaccines began development 20 years ago, if not more. For Covid-19 strains the bulk of the work was tailoring the vaccines for the specific spike proteins.

That notwithstanding, why would it be a stretch to think we would be developing vaccines faster than in the past?

[DKW 86 7,481]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:25 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

Homer simply states that  he believes that the constitution should play a bigger part in politics than individual religious beliefs, which I think is a good take. 

 

And in response to your question to DKW, 

There are those that would believe you are compromising on the "Do not kill" commandment if you support the death penalty/war/shooting intruders on your property/etc. 

Everyone  compromises on commandments and biblical principles to one extent or another. 

And yet the bible gives death for a son that dishonors his father and mother...

Cant have it both ways. Killing for your benefit is an evil. Killing because someone else has done evil, not so much.

[DKW 86 7,481]

21 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

So your answer is you don’t think the Ten Commandments matter or are applicable to today’s society.  What kind of church do you attend?

I never said that. I said certain parts of TTC do not apply to Christian Believers and I listed them with rational reasoning. And I attend the COTH. A non-denominational mostly baptist theology church that has 23 or so campuses and tens of thousands of members.

Edited October 26, 2022 by DKW 86

[pensacolatiger 313]

45 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

I never said that. I said certain parts of TTC do not apply to Christian Believers and I listed them with rational reasoning. And I attend the COTH. A non-denominational mostly baptist theology church that has 23 or so campuses and tens of thousands of members.

A few things about your post catch my eye.  How much of your congregation do you think shares your belief that parts of the Ten Commandments don’t apply to Christian believers?

[pensacolatiger 313]

51 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

I never said that. I said certain parts of TTC do not apply to Christian Believers and I listed them with rational reasoning. And I attend the COTH. A non-denominational mostly baptist theology church that has 23 or so campuses and tens of thousands of members.

Because in your post, all I saw were excuses for not being a more focused Christian.  I know that sounds harsh, but I mean it in a brotherly love way.  Daily I miss opportunities to be a better Christian, but it’s important I see those opportunities and grow from the failures.

[Didba 5,282]

On 10/22/2022 at 5:38 PM, TexasTiger said:

The imperfect vessel for god’s will, praise trump!!

[Didba 5,282]

12 hours ago, Leftfield said:

And? 

Have you read a single article on the development of this vaccine? If you had, you'd probably have seen that mRNA vaccines began development 20 years ago, if not more. For Covid-19 strains the bulk of the work was tailoring the vaccines for the specific spike proteins.

That notwithstanding, why would it be a stretch to think we would be developing vaccines faster than in the past?

You are talking to someone that avoids reading anything academic 

[Leftfield 2,716]

3 hours ago, Didba said:

You are talking to someone that avoids reading anything academic 

I know. I don't particularly enjoy it. The main reason I respond is there are people that lurk here, so I'm trying to push back on the misinformation as much as I can, hoping it helps head it off for those who might be on the fence.

I just can't understand how so much faith has been lost in our scientific community. Certainly you should always keep a skeptical eye, but when all you do is look for the slightest crack in what they're saying, it's just absurd. There was some remarkable work done to get these vaccines ready as soon as they were, and some people flush it all away because they don't want it to be true.

The problem, as I mentioned in the other thread, is it takes nothing for these people to post these "gotcha" articles that end up being far less than they want, if they amount to anything at all. Rather than having to prove it's right, they leave it up to us to prove them wrong. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."

Edited October 26, 2022 by Leftfield

[pensacolatiger 313]

7 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

I know. I don't particularly enjoy it. The main reason I respond is there are people that lurk here, so I'm trying to push back on the misinformation as much as I can, hoping it helps head it off for those who might be on the fence.

I just can't understand how so much faith has been lost in our scientific community. Certainly you should always keep a skeptical eye, but when all you do is look for the slightest crack in what they're saying, it's just absurd. There was some remarkable work done to get these vaccines ready as soon as they were, and some people flush it all away because they don't want it to be true.

The problem, as I mentioned in the other thread, is it takes nothing for these people to post these "gotcha" articles that end up being far less that they want, if they amount to anything at all. Rather than having to prove it's right, they they leave it up to us to prove them wrong. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."

Are you part of the team that developed the vaccine?  Why do you feel the need to vehemently defend their work?  How many court rulings are you going to ignore to justify your hypothesis based on early launch studies?

[Leftfield 2,716]

49 minutes ago, pensacolatiger said:

Are you part of the team that developed the vaccine?  Why do you feel the need to vehemently defend their work?

I defend their work because they're not on here to defend it for themselves, from people like you who would further erode confidence in it. 

50 minutes ago, pensacolatiger said:

How many court rulings are you going to ignore to justify your hypothesis based on early launch studies?

What the hell are you even talking about? Show me one court ruling that invalidated the science behind the vaccines.

[Didba 5,282]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

I defend their work because they're not on here to defend it for themselves, from people like you who would further erode confidence in it. 

What the hell are you even talking about? Show me one court ruling that invalidated the science behind the vaccines.

I would also like a case cite to a court case saying that lmao.

[homersapien 11,513]

50 minutes ago, Didba said:

I would also like a case cite to a court case saying that lmao.

  Someone is seriously confused if they are seeking court cases to refute scientific advice.