Honest Question: 19-21 Record in SEC Play

[Tampa Tiger 30]

I've tried to have some honest discussions on a Facebook group full of sunshine pumpers, but everyone just thinks it's a great hire, etc. 

I'm really trying to understand with honest discussion (without discussing his past off the field baggage, call him Coaching Candidate X), why I should be excited about a guy that went 19-21 in the SEC and just one 10th, and two 17th AP finishes?  

[msza 228]

Because he did it at Ole Miss, which is a historical cellar dweller.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

6 minutes ago, Tampa Tiger said:

I've tried to have some honest discussions on a Facebook group full of sunshine pumpers, but everyone just thinks it's a great hire, etc. 

I'm really trying to understand with honest discussion (without discussing his past off the field baggage, call him Coaching Candidate X), why I should be excited about a guy that went 19-21 in the SEC and just one 10th, and two 17th AP finishes?  

Because in context it looks a bit different.

Remember, Ole Miss is a perennial bottom half of the SEC program.  But they were at rock bottom when he took over there, coming off 4-8 and 2-10 seasons just prior to his arrival.  It's going to take a bit to recover from that far down.  But here were his first two years there:

2012: 7-6 overall (3-5 in the SEC)
2013: 8-5 (3-5 SEC)

Remember also how much of an absolute gauntlet the SEC and the SEC West in particular was in at that time with Auburn, Alabama and LSU all playing for natties from 2010-2013. 

From there he went...

2014: 9-4 (5-3 SEC)
2015: 10-3 (6-2 SEC)

These were also the years he beat Alabama back to back.  And Alabama made the CFP both years and won it all in 2015.  Let us also not forget that he was this freak 4th and 25 play away from winning the West in 2015:

 

2016: 5-7 (2-6 SEC)

This looks bad but again the context - the rumblings about NCAA troubles started happening at the end of the 2015 campaign and it really affected their recruiting and was a major distraction the whole season.

I mean, yes, the record is the record.  But in context I don't think it comes anywhere near telling the whole story.  What he accomplished at Ole Miss is remarkable.  This is a program that hasn't won a championship - division, conference or otherwise - since segregation.  1963 to be exact.  

[Zinzan 123]

Also throw in the highly-rated offenses, QB development, and highly-ranked recruiting (and effort). 

[fasttimes 356]

that context is fine and context is needed. don't leave out the fact that he cheated to get the players that won those games. we don't care because "everyone is doing it" but he did it and got caught.

the reason i bring that up is i have no idea if he is the great recruiter folks say he is because he cheated so badly at ole miss he got caught. maybe he is maybe he isn't. we will find out.

[woodford 3,678]

7 minutes ago, fasttimes said:

that context is fine and context is needed. don't leave out the fact that he cheated to get the players that won those games. we don't care because "everyone is doing it" but he did it and got caught.

the reason i bring that up is i have no idea if he is the great recruiter folks say he is because he cheated so badly at ole miss he got caught. maybe he is maybe he isn't. we will find out.

“Cheated”

[fasttimes 356]

thems the rules at the time chief. and money to players at that time was much more influential than it is now. i honestly don't care about playing players, but to deny the impact it had at that time is naive. to attribute it to someone being a great recruiter is careless. my opinon of course.

[fishepa 1,911]

1 minute ago, fasttimes said:

thems the rules at the time chief. and money to players at that time was much more influential than it is now. i honestly don't care about playing players, but to deny the impact it had at that time is naive. to attribute it to someone being a great recruiter is careless. my opinon of course.

Agree, I guess we're in just a wait and see scenario here.  Let's see what he can do in the portal as well.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

22 minutes ago, fasttimes said:

that context is fine and context is needed. don't leave out the fact that he cheated to get the players that won those games. we don't care because "everyone is doing it" but he did it and got caught.

True.  But it doesn't change that the accomplishment was real.  He wasn't getting an advantage over anyone he was playing because he was doing what all of them were doing to compete at the highest level.

 

22 minutes ago, fasttimes said:

the reason i bring that up is i have no idea if he is the great recruiter folks say he is because he cheated so badly at ole miss he got caught. maybe he is maybe he isn't. we will find out.

Then we also don't know if Saban, Kirby, Dabo, Miles, Meyer, and so on were great recruiters either because if you think the exact same things aren't happening at all those schools, you're kidding yourself.

[fasttimes 356]

not kidding myself. i said "everyone is doing it". whats the difference between everyone else and freeze? and is that difference significant/important?

[Strychnine 1,804]

Tuberville was 12-20 in SEC play at Ole Miss, then went on to 49-29 at Auburn.  The three coaches between Tuberville and Freeze went 25-23, 3-21, and 10-22.  The fellow that went 3-21, later went 15-0 for a playoff win at LSU.  19-21 in SEC play is not bad at all, at Ole Miss.

I am not suggesting that you should be excited about the hire, and I am not excited about it myself, but I can get behind it long enough to see how it goes.

[Gowebb11 9,429]

1 hour ago, Tampa Tiger said:

I've tried to have some honest discussions on a Facebook group full of sunshine pumpers, but everyone just thinks it's a great hire, etc. 

I'm really trying to understand with honest discussion (without discussing his past off the field baggage, call him Coaching Candidate X), why I should be excited about a guy that went 19-21 in the SEC and just one 10th, and two 17th AP finishes?  

I would encourage you to go look up Saban’s record at Michigan St. or Frank Beamer’s record at VaTech his first few years. Context of the situation a coach inherits is important to consider. 

[TexasTiger 13,134]

12 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

Tuberville was 12-20 in SEC play at Ole Miss, then went on to 49-29 at Auburn.  The three coaches between Tuberville and Freeze went 25-23, 3-21, and 10-22.  The fellow that went 3-21, later went 15-0 for a playoff win at LSU.  19-21 in SEC play is not bad at all, at Ole Miss.

I am not suggesting that you should be excited about the hire, and I am not excited about it myself, but I can get behind it long enough to see how it goes.

Good points.

[LeonardAU 237]

He had some good teams at Ole Miss, but he went 5-7 in his last year with arguably his best roster of talent.  Not sure if the stuff that got him fired was swirling by that point, but I don't think it was until after the season ended.  

 

This hire is not a homerun by any means, certainly not given the baggage Auburn is having to shoulder by hiring him.  I mean, if you're going to hire a damage control PR firm maybe get someone with a higher winning percentage?  That said, he'll win some games before he crashes the plane into the mountain.  It's the Auburn way.

[Tampa Tiger 30]

1 hour ago, Strychnine said:

Tuberville was 12-20 in SEC play at Ole Miss, then went on to 49-29 at Auburn.  The three coaches between Tuberville and Freeze went 25-23, 3-21, and 10-22.  The fellow that went 3-21, later went 15-0 for a playoff win at LSU.  19-21 in SEC play is not bad at all, at Ole Miss.

I am not suggesting that you should be excited about the hire, and I am not excited about it myself, but I can get behind it long enough to see how it goes.

Great points, these were the type of pros/cons I was objectively looking for.

1 hour ago, LeonardAU said:

He had some good teams at Ole Miss, but he went 5-7 in his last year with arguably his best roster of talent.  Not sure if the stuff that got him fired was swirling by that point, but I don't think it was until after the season ended.  

 

This hire is not a homerun by any means, certainly not given the baggage Auburn is having to shoulder by hiring him.  I mean, if you're going to hire a damage control PR firm maybe get someone with a higher winning percentage?  That said, he'll win some games before he crashes the plane into the mountain.  It's the Auburn way.

I agree with the PR firm statement etc.  Just wanted to know why we went so hard in the paint.  Great points

[W.E.D 11,070]

3 hours ago, Tampa Tiger said:

I've tried to have some honest discussions on a Facebook group full of sunshine pumpers, but everyone just thinks it's a great hire, etc. 

I'm really trying to understand with honest discussion (without discussing his past off the field baggage, call him Coaching Candidate X), why I should be excited about a guy that went 19-21 in the SEC and just one 10th, and two 17th AP finishes?  

He was at Ole Miss.

hth

[The Freak 2,529]

5 years before Freeze: 10-30

Freeze: 19-21

After Freeze (6 years): 20-29

 

[smackydoodle 200]

In the four seasons prior to HF being hired, Ole Miss won 9 games 2 times and was ranked as high as #4. Nutt's last season was terrible, but so was HF's before he was.... ya know.... told to go away.

[bishoptf 699]

2 hours ago, fasttimes said:

that context is fine and context is needed. don't leave out the fact that he cheated to get the players that won those games. we don't care because "everyone is doing it" but he did it and got caught.

the reason i bring that up is i have no idea if he is the great recruiter folks say he is because he cheated so badly at ole miss he got caught. maybe he is maybe he isn't. we will find out.

LOL you mean like what Saban and UAT has been doing for years and nothing was done about it...I mean thats one of the things I like about him, he was doing NIL before NIL was a thing...call it what you want but if you think NO other SEC teams were doing that well then nothing I can say....

[smackydoodle 200]

Just now, bishoptf said:

LOL you mean like what Saban and UAT has been doing for years and nothing was done about it...I mean thats one of the things I like about him, he was doing NIL before NIL was a thing...call it what you want but if you think NO other SEC teams were doing that well then nothing I can say....

So going on the "everyone was doing it" .... what did HF accomplish with it? A 10 win season that includes losses to unraked Memphis and unranked Arkansas.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

3 hours ago, Tampa Tiger said:

I've tried to have some honest discussions on a Facebook group full of sunshine pumpers, but everyone just thinks it's a great hire, etc. 

I'm really trying to understand with honest discussion (without discussing his past off the field baggage, call him Coaching Candidate X), why I should be excited about a guy that went 19-21 in the SEC and just one 10th, and two 17th AP finishes?  

Let me give you one important statistic . He beat Nick Saben in his prime at Alabama in back to back years. Almost unheard of. 🤔

[smackydoodle 200]

1 minute ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Let me give you one important statistic . He beat Nick Saben in his prime at Alabama in back to back years. Almost unheard of. 🤔

And there it is.

[bishoptf 699]

1 minute ago, smackydoodle said:

So going on the "everyone was doing it" .... what did HF accomplish with it? A 10 win season that includes losses to unraked Memphis and unranked Arkansas.

Understand and no one knows how he is going to do, just like no one knows how any of those other coaches will do either...I was pulling for Deion as my top pick but they decided to take a different path....there is no sure thing when hiring head coaches anyone that says otherwise is selling snake oil. I am hoping for the best I will support him until it becomes obvious that he is not the right answer, but really no one knows what the right answer really is....

[Win4AU 4,055]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Because in context it looks a bit different.

Remember, Ole Miss is a perennial bottom half of the SEC program.  But they were at rock bottom when he took over there, coming off 4-8 and 2-10 seasons just prior to his arrival.  It's going to take a bit to recover from that far down.  But here were his first two years there:

2012: 7-6 overall (3-5 in the SEC)
2013: 8-5 (3-5 SEC)

Remember also how much of an absolute gauntlet the SEC and the SEC West in particular was in at that time with Auburn, Alabama and LSU all playing for natties from 2010-2013. 

From there he went...

2014: 9-4 (5-3 SEC)
2015: 10-3 (6-2 SEC)

These were also the years he beat Alabama back to back.  And Alabama made the CFP both years and won it all in 2015.  Let us also not forget that he was this freak 4th and 25 play away from winning the West in 2015:

 

2016: 5-7 (2-6 SEC)

This looks bad but again the context - the rumblings about NCAA troubles started happening at the end of the 2015 campaign and it really affected their recruiting and was a major distraction the whole season.

I mean, yes, the record is the record.  But in context I don't think it comes anywhere near telling the whole story.  What he accomplished at Ole Miss is remarkable.  This is a program that hasn't won a championship - division, conference or otherwise - since segregation.  1963 to be exact.  

So what you’re saying is it took him 2 years to build up Ole Miss to win in the SEC and then he was successful for 2 years until all the NCAA/hooker stuff popped up?  Interesting.  I’m intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

His record was the reason why I did not want him. Or Lane. 
But you cannot deny that the turn around for Arkansas state, Ole Miss, and liberty were pretty amazing. 
The question I have is, can he do it quickly at Auburn? Because our roster is not good. And can he still recruit?