Students Expelled for ‘Ku Klux Klan Starter Pack’ Instagram Posts ‘Obviously’ Have No First Amendment Protection, Appeals Court Rules

[Didba 5,256]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

How about Cori Bush’s statement about Rep Donalds as a *prop*?  I can understand the CBC not wanting opposing views in the caucus, but one of their members openly making a slur to another African American seems off beat.

eh... I wouldn't call that a slur but its a bad look for sure. Its close though, basically calling him a token black or an uncle tom. I would rather she hadn't said it at all.

Some would say its not a big deal because they are both black but I mean RG3 accidentally said jiggaboo on national television and he still had to apologize even though he is basically beloved across the nation as a goofy big kid.

Frankly, I am not a fan of Ms. Bush, she often speaks before she thinks and rarely takes the high road.

As for the discrimination angle it'd be tough to prove they denied him membership based upon race.  It would be an interesting court case.

[Didba 5,256]

9 minutes ago, ChristoThor said:

I think that is 100% correct. I think we do our best to address each other respectfully. When we are speaking from a place of ignorance or inexperience and someone informs us to that fact, we do our best to correct and move forward. I am not telling you that you have to adjust because I told you so that is all just my take on the situation. Others may disagree. From my perspective, making the statement that racism is just being picked on isn't the way to discuss it.

I'm curious. When you say it is not your duty to change, what are you getting at? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean change the truth based on previous posts of you saying you are willing to learn and grow. That statement of "not my duty to change" though can also come across as, "I know what is right and everyone else is wrong. It is not my job to change for them, but for them to see that I am right and should just listen to me." I am not saying that is what you were trying to say, but reading that gave me that vibe on my first read. I have been told before that, "We should agree to disagree. I can't learn anything from you and you won't listen to me." It is a very combative way of approaching disagreeing and this also could come across that way.

I also feel like the two things you quoted are lacking their surrounding context. They are both said in the context that while I stand by those statements, it is still the least affected party's responsibility to maintain a helpful tone in the conversation. I hope that the wronged party can look past emotion, but that can be especially difficult when you feel wronged/hurt. This is a difficult topic and it is even more so for those who are actually affected by it.

On the note of CRT, I have noticed a lot of people take a look at it, feel uncomfortable, and find a way to dismiss it. Normally this is through a strawman argument where they find someone who pushes a very extreme interpretation. This falls back to what I was saying earlier about the beliefs of a group not being consistent across the board and engaging with an idea to truly understand it. I think for CRT or any other controversial ideology (feminism for example) it is best to try and find what the founding/central/official concept is for it outside of a bunch of people shouting their interpretation. Back to the example of feminism, I found the way some feminist talked about certain topics were hard to digest and accept. It was up to me to try and look at the overall goal/ideology of feminism outside of loud opinions. Upon doing that, it became easier to listen to those very same feminists because I felt I had a better idea of where they were coming from.

I don't know if I can give a great explanation, but I will try. I believe that Cori Bush feels that the policies that Byron Donalds is supporting can help the white supremacy agenda. By saying "Despite being Black" she is saying that it is more likely that someone who is Black should understand the importance of standing against white supremacy and it is surprising to see someone who is Black support it. I do not believe she is saying you can't be Black if you don't vote the same way as me. I am not the best informed. I can't speak to the absolute truth of the situation, but I can understand where she is coming from. Byron Donalds being supported by those who refuse to vote for McCarthy does not instill a lot of confidence in him personally speaking.

I also think it is folly to look at politicians for guidance. In fact, a lot of the time I feel they are much better representatives of what not to do.

Just a little note on CRT, (@I_M4_AU) for both of you.  CRT was born in law school/political science PhD classrooms being discussed by professors and students.  It was always meant to be a graduate level concept.  It was never meant to be taught lower than the graduate level.

Basically, the people that came up with it were not the ones that pushed for it to be taught in lower levels of education and IMO, it really shouldn't be. CRT is a mixture of law, philosophy, political science and sociology, there isn't any reason for young kids or even undergraduates to be taught it unless they specifically seek it out in undegrad as like an elective.

Media on both sides of the spectrum have really blown CRT out of proportion and turned it into this big boogie man of a term when it was never intended to leave graduate level classrooms.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

19 minutes ago, Didba said:

RG3 accidentally said jiggaboo on national television and he still had to apologize

Love to hear him on game day! Auburn vs Mizz  “ caught that pass and fell on his left booty cheek in bounds”.

”thicker kicker missed it”

Edited January 6, 2023 by SaltyTiger

[Didba 5,256]

6 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Love to hear him on game day! Auburn vs Mizz  “ caught that pass and fell on his left booty cheek in bounds”.

”thicker kicker missed it”

Did you see where his wife went into labor during the Michigan-TCU game and he straight sprinted off the field in his suit!! It was wild and hilarious.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

7 minutes ago, ChristoThor said:

Others may disagree. From my perspective, making the statement that racism is just being picked on isn't the way to discuss it.

What I have seen is people get *picked on* because of differences (fat, skinny, acne, etc), especially growing up (in a school setting).  Skin color is not much different except how the recipient perceives being picked on.  I am sure their are times when it goes beyond being picked upon, but I haven’t witnessed it.  I can’t comment on what I have not witnessed and that is not being ignorant as you stated.

That is how young immature people act.  Those incidences of being *picked on* lessons after the immaturity wears off and the person realizes there are diversities in the world.  It takes some longer than others.  Personally, I haven’t witnessed open racism is my profession and there are rules against such things.

20 minutes ago, ChristoThor said:

I'm curious. When you say it is not your duty to change, what are you getting at?

Basically, I am a conservative and being a conservative I like to conserve what we have.  If a compelling argument is presented I can read and try to understand the content and if it makes since I can agree, if it doesn’t I can give my point of view.  It is up to others to present their argument, not for me to dig out something I don’t necessarily believe is true.

That is my thoughts on the matter.  After asking what I am getting at you promptly go on to lecture on what you thought I meant.  Letting me answer could help the understanding.

29 minutes ago, ChristoThor said:

On the note of CRT, I have noticed a lot of people take a look at it, feel uncomfortable, and find a way to dismiss it.

To correct you on this matter, I only mentioned CT which is Critical Theory.  If is basically dividing society into the oppressed and the oppressors.  I find that a poor view of society.  If one believes that it will lead to class warfare, which maybe the purpose.  It pits one perceived group against the other when both groups are needed to survive (workers and business owners in a capitalist society).  It has been adapted into CRT which moves the goalposts from class to race and is even more divisive.

1 hour ago, ChristoThor said:

I also think it is folly to look at politicians for guidance. In fact, a lot of the time I feel they are much better representatives of what not to do.

I don’t believe Donalds would support a *white supremacy* agenda and, for that matter, I don’t think anybody in our government would support such an agenda.  But that’s me.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of people that look for guidance from our politicians, especially the president.

[homersapien 11,393]

6 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

No not arguing anything. Why does everything need to be an argument with you? Just an observation. Have been through many black communities and poor rural communities that have not changed or even deteriorated in the last decades.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant to say, but your post certainly came across that way.  That's exactly why I asked for clarification.  No offense - or argument - intended.

But to your point, eliminating institutional racism doesn't rectify the effects of the past, when it prevailed. It just gives those poor blacks in rural communities a better chance of improving their future.

Edited January 7, 2023 by homersapien

[arein0 970]

12 hours ago, cole256 said:

One thing I can admit I haven't ever done. I haven't ever had a conversation with a white person and have listened to their side as to how they would handle random acts of racism. I would be interested in that conversation.

Is the opinion to ignore it? I feel I have a pretty unique perspective. I grew up on the bad part of town, but because I scored well on some placement tests and because of my grandfather and mom sacrificing for me I was able to attend private school. 

So I was at school where I was either the only or one of a very few black person so I didn't fit in and have a few stories that no child should ever have to endure. 

But at the same time there was a disconnect somewhat from my friends and family in the hood, because I didn't go to school with them anymore.

And this has been my ENTIRE life. I've movedaround a bunch and even in my profession I'm either the only other African American that does what I do, or one of the few. 

And I've also had a few things professionally. So I just have a very interesting perspective that I don't feel many may not see or feel. 

I think most, myself included, would say and believe that they would step in and help out. But in reality I think the most determining factor on whether they would step in would be based on how many people would be around. It's very easy to step in when you are the only one to witness it. It becomes more difficult the more people that are around. Everyone will sit and watch and think someone else will step in and usually it ends up with no intervention. I know it sounds bad, but there is a psychological term called the Bystander Effect. 

[autigeremt 6,652]

1 hour ago, arein0 said:

I think most, myself included, would say and believe that they would step in and help out. But in reality I think the most determining factor on whether they would step in would be based on how many people would be around. It's very easy to step in when you are the only one to witness it. It becomes more difficult the more people that are around. Everyone will sit and watch and think someone else will step in and usually it ends up with no intervention. I know it sounds bad, but there is a psychological term called the Bystander Effect. 

I’d step in. I’ve done it before and will continue to do so. Even after having a job taken from me for doing so. There’s no place for it. No matter the race. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Racism as a concept can be about, hate, prejudice, tradition, a lever of power.

However, in real time, when face-to-face dealing with it,,, see EMT's post above.  NEVER be passive.  Always stand up to the bullies.

[cole256 17,084]

On 1/6/2023 at 11:37 PM, autigeremt said:

I’d step in. I’ve done it before and will continue to do so. Even after having a job taken from me for doing so. There’s no place for it. No matter the race. 

If you would I commend that, just how you act on here I can't see it

[cole256 17,084]

On 1/6/2023 at 10:25 PM, arein0 said:

I think most, myself included, would say and believe that they would step in and help out. But in reality I think the most determining factor on whether they would step in would be based on how many people would be around. It's very easy to step in when you are the only one to witness it. It becomes more difficult the more people that are around. Everyone will sit and watch and think someone else will step in and usually it ends up with no intervention. I know it sounds bad, but there is a psychological term called the Bystander Effect. 

That is actually something that is discussed and we have training for in the nuke industry. 

[autigeremt 6,652]

47 minutes ago, cole256 said:

If you would I commend that, just how you act on here I can't see it

Actions speak louder than words on a crazy message board 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

If you would I commend that, just how you act on here I can't see it

That is an interesting statement to me.  There are times when I just don't understand EMT either when it comes to politics, power, economics.  However, at the moment of truth, I would bet my life on him doing the right thing.

[cole256 17,084]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:28 PM, homersapien said:

I am not "insisting" on anything, Cole is black.  I know that from my history on this forum. (He's also a nuclear engineer.)  And Cole can take care of himself. We've had our differences on the football forum and it got pretty personal, although I doubt he even remembers it.

Regarding me "changing" what you wrote or meant, you are full of s***. Everyone who reads your posts knows exactly what your saying.  Likewise, my responses to your idiotic posts are equally clear.  You just don't have the integrity to own it after the fact.  That's why you make generalized claims as above about me somehow "changing the narrative" of what your wrote.  You want to go back and parse it line by line?  Let's go.

Or maybe you are just a fool, especially considering the self-own irony of the two sentences  highlighted in your response.

This is not about Cole.  It's about you.

 

 

 

Oh I remember. I don't think it was all that personal though. I remember though because I got a point or whatever they call it. I got it for telling you, you should stick more to politics but leave the football stuff alone. Or something like that. 

I've seen people post way way more nastier stuff to you, and damn sure had worst stuff said to me and about me on here and nobody got into any trouble. But they pretended me saying what I said was a bannable offense.

But that just let me know what it was on here. I make a point not to break rules, so it's funny to me that mainly for me not pretending Bo nix is a good QB and the fact I'll say stuff like you said this about one guy then you should also say this about another, I'm evil, racist, and what ever else but guys that have a history to down every black person they can, guys who hate to see any black person in leadership, guys that will talk about a black player like he's a dog while taking up for the white player no matter what, guys who says stuff like black face isn't racist, or coincidentally EVERY high profile case where a black person is killed is ALWAYS on a particular side.......everybody can pretend they don't see that. 

But let me say something like there are race issues in the NFL.....that's the last straw!!! 

[cole256 17,084]

2 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

That is an interesting statement to me.  There are times when I just don't understand EMT either when it comes to politics, power, economics.  However, at the moment of truth, I would bet my life on him doing the right thing.

Yeah I don't really know anything about him personally. All I know if for any reason race would come up I know he'd definitely would let me know that black people can be racist too. 

[cole256 17,084]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:06 PM, I_M4_AU said:

How do would you feel if someone told you the only reason you have the job you have in the nuclear industry is because you are black?  I’m sure someone has said or, at least, thought that.  It really is the same thing and it is distasteful.

You’re a knowledgeable poster on athletes and sports, it’s only when you throw in race that upset most.  I used to comment in the past, but gave that up.  The reason I jumped on this thread was to get to a discussion going to see what your beef was.  I hope it continues.

I have heard that before. As far as your second paragraph, I would be really surprised if anybody could post 5 times where I just blindly brought up race and it had absolutely no value or context to the discussion that was being had.

And as far as this discussion you actually insulted out of the blue and wanted to force a convo that I initially said I wasn't going to participate in it because of how you initiated it. But because of other people seeming to be genuine I decided I would join. You have to take some accountability sometimes. You literally ignored that, and tried to bully me into a convo then tried to say nothing I say is valid because I wouldn't do what you are telling me to do. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

Yeah I don't really know anything about him personally. All I know if for any reason race would come up I know he'd definitely would let me know that black people can be racist too. 

That has been a "go to" response for people in this part of the world since I can remember.

Kind of funny to me since, the last time I called a black person a racist, that person was being racist towards other black people.

I think we all understand the obvious hateful racism but,,, we don't want to understand the more nuanced, equally destructive forms of racism.

I believe there is an economic component to "racism" that transcends race.  It is sort of our collective desire to have a group of people to look down on.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

17 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I have heard that before. As far as your second paragraph, I would be really surprised if anybody could post 5 times where I just blindly brought up race and it had absolutely no value or context to the discussion that was being had.

And as far as this discussion you actually insulted out of the blue and wanted to force a convo that I initially said I wasn't going to participate in it because of how you initiated it. But because of other people seeming to be genuine I decided I would join. You have to take some accountability sometimes. You literally ignored that, and tried to bully me into a convo then tried to say nothing I say is valid because I wouldn't do what you are telling me to do. 

I can admit my initial way I approached the subject was not the best way to start. My apologies.

[cole256 17,084]

22 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

That has been a "go to" response for people in this part of the world since I can remember.

Kind of funny to me since, the last time I called a black person a racist, that person was being racist towards other black people.

I think we all understand the obvious hateful racism but,,, we don't want to understand the more nuanced, equally destructive forms of racism.

I believe there is an economic component to "racism" that transcends race.  It is sort of our collective desire to have a group of people to look down on.

I think economics has everything to do. When people discuss stuff like black people and crime I always say if you really wanted to see and make a judgement look in the suburbs. Now do a study with well off black and white people and tell me if black people are more violent. Show me the test scores from that demographic......it took several generations just to get on the track to start the race for many.

Like it or not I just think people have to admit that slavery had some major negative impacts. Not saying it's the excuse for everything but you can't pretend that it's nothing either.

[autigeremt 6,652]

9 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

That is an interesting statement to me.  There are times when I just don't understand EMT either when it comes to politics, power, economics.  However, at the moment of truth, I would bet my life on him doing the right thing.

I’d give my life if need be to protect Cole, you, or anyone else in here. It’s just how I’m wired. 

[autigeremt 6,652]

7 hours ago, cole256 said:

Yeah I don't really know anything about him personally. All I know if for any reason race would come up I know he'd definitely would let me know that black people can be racist too. 

Only because I’ve seen it with my own eyes and had to deal with it personally. A life experience of my own. I’m just stating that you don’t have to be white to be racist and it happens all over the world. I wish I could erase it with a snap of my fingers. 
 

Where’s those infinity stones when you need them?

Edited January 11, 2023 by autigeremt