Classified Documents found in Biden's garage Biden says "my Corvette's in a locked garage, OK?"

[JMWATS 464]

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.  What a disgrace.  Biden is incompetent. 

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/12/1148685480/classified-documents-biden-doj-archives-delaware

[GoAU 1,708]

I believe the same standard for mishandling of classified documents that is applied to our service members should be applied to the ruling class.  It’s apparent that they have a real problem thinking rules apply to them.  
 

Hillary, IMO, was the worst.  Took obviously deliberate steps to circumvent processes to control documents.   It’s hard to claim ignorance when you set up servers.  

Trump and Biden, with current info, are kind of in the same boat and a lot rides on what the various documents were.  Trump (from the sounds of it) was clearly in an intentional situation as well - refusing to turn over documents.  Biden in a lot of ways is even worse.  I’m not sure if his claim of not knowing about 3 different stashes of classified documents is better or worse than people who are at least deliberate.  I mean losing any is bad, but having multiple stashes that you claim you “forgot” about for the better half of a decade??  First, I don’t believe his story at all, but even if you did - WTH??  
 

I am still consistent with what I said when Mar A Lago was raided - if he broke the law, and the documents were in any way an issue of national security he should be prosecuted.  I feel the same about Biden. 
 

just curious about how those on the left that were pushing for Trumps prosecution feel about Biden’s situation?  

[jj3jordan 2,221]

25 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I believe the same standard for mishandling of classified documents that is applied to our service members should be applied to the ruling class.  It’s apparent that they have a real problem thinking rules apply to them.  
 

Hillary, IMO, was the worst.  Took obviously deliberate steps to circumvent processes to control documents.   It’s hard to claim ignorance when you set up servers.  

Trump and Biden, with current info, are kind of in the same boat and a lot rides on what the various documents were.  Trump (from the sounds of it) was clearly in an intentional situation as well - refusing to turn over documents.  Biden in a lot of ways is even worse.  I’m not sure if his claim of not knowing about 3 different stashes of classified documents is better or worse than people who are at least deliberate.  I mean losing any is bad, but having multiple stashes that you claim you “forgot” about for the better half of a decade??  First, I don’t believe his story at all, but even if you did - WTH??  
 

I am still consistent with what I said when Mar A Lago was raided - if he broke the law, and the documents were in any way an issue of national security he should be prosecuted.  I feel the same about Biden. 
 

just curious about how those on the left that were pushing for Trumps prosecution feel about Biden’s situation?  

I'm guessing they don't feel it.

[GoAU 1,708]

Looks like even more documents are being found.   This is ridiculous....

[Mims44 2,126]

2 hours ago, JMWATS said:

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.  What a disgrace.  Biden is incompetent. 

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/12/1148685480/classified-documents-biden-doj-archives-delaware

Silly post honestly  

 

We all know rules don't apply to these people.

[JMWATS 464]

4 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Silly post honestly  

 

We all know rules don't apply to these people.

Which people are “these”.

[Mims44 2,126]

1 hour ago, JMWATS said:

Which people are “these”.

politicians, at least those that have made it high up in their careers.

 

But you could also throw the ultra rich in there too, obviously.

[JMWATS 464]

1 hour ago, Mims44 said:

politicians, at least those that have made it high up in their careers.

 

But you could also throw the ultra rich in there too, obviously.

Fair enough.  Has to change if we are ever going to move this country past what it is today. 

[aubiefifty 19,090]

23 hours ago, JMWATS said:

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.  What a disgrace.  Biden is incompetent. 

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/12/1148685480/classified-documents-biden-doj-archives-delaware

lets hear what you really think about the donald there killer.

[aubiefifty 19,090]

20 hours ago, Mims44 said:

Silly post honestly  

 

We all know rules don't apply to these people.

i am so shocked we agree on anything i am gonna bake you a cake you will love. can you trust me? grins

[aubiefifty 19,090]

20 hours ago, GoAU said:

Looks like even more documents are being found.   This is ridiculous....

you and i have been in the military. i was awarded a top secret security clearance while stationed at the pentagon. i like biden but if you or i had done that we would probably be busting up rocks at some military prison. maybe they give some leeway to presidents. the difference between biden and trump is trunp was told to bring back docs and he did not in fact send them all back.

[GoAU 1,708]

26 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you and i have been in the military. i was awarded a top secret security clearance while stationed at the pentagon. i like biden but if you or i had done that we would probably be busting up rocks at some military prison. maybe they give some leeway to presidents. the difference between biden and trump is trunp was told to bring back docs and he did not in fact send them all back.

I agree, and I have been consistent regarding my condemnation of Trump for this.  I also had a TS clearance and the Army took breaches of protocol VERY seriously.  
 

Biden is equally, or potentially even more so, in the wrong for having multiple incidents and more documents and the manner in which he did it.  For example, if I had to pick a place to leave a large box of cash and my SSN # and hope it was secure, I think I’d have better chance in a locked closet in Mar A Lago than in a office in a public university or in someone’s garage (even if it was a locked garage with a Corvette).  
 

So much can also depend on what the documents were and why they were kept in personal areas - but regardless of that, the rules are the rules.  
 

[aubiefifty 19,090]

1 minute ago, GoAU said:

I agree, and I have been consistent regarding my condemnation of Trump for this.  I also had a TS clearance and the Army took breaches of protocol VERY seriously.  
 

Biden is equally, or potentially even more so, in the wrong for having multiple incidents and more documents and the manner in which he did it.  For example, if I had to pick a place to leave a large box of cash and my SSN # and hope it was secure, I think I’d have better chance in a locked closet in Mar A Lago than in a office in a public university or in someone’s garage (even if it was a locked garage with a Corvette).  
 

So much can also depend on what the documents were and why they were kept in personal areas - but regardless of that, the rules are the rules.  
 

the rules will never apply to any president like they do to you and i. it is not fair but it is what it is. they read the riot act to me scared me so bad i made sure i never ever screwed up. or let the coffee pots go dry...........

[jj3jordan 2,221]

39 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you and i have been in the military. i was awarded a top secret security clearance while stationed at the pentagon. i like biden but if you or i had done that we would probably be busting up rocks at some military prison. maybe they give some leeway to presidents. the difference between biden and trump is trunp was told to bring back docs and he did not in fact send them all back.

The crime is possession and improper storage/removal from their safe storage areas.  Not the failure to return them upon being told to bring them back.

[aubiefifty 19,090]

Biden Just Played Right Into Trump’s Hands

Patrick Reis

5–6 minutes

---

 

President Biden Welcomes Japanese Prime Minister Kishida Fumio To The White House - Credit: Getty Images

 

The White House said Saturday that President Joe Biden’s aides had found more classified information stored at his private residence. It is inopportune timing for the president: His team said on Thursday that only one classified page had been found there. Now, it’s up to six.

For an administration whose FBI searched Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate over improper storage of sensitive government materials, it’s a bad look to be having your own issues with improper storage of sensitive government materials. The government has a system for storing sensitive documents, and “Don’t worry gang, it’s my home office,” isn’t part of it. (Especially not when there were secret documents also found at the Penn Biden Center, a Biden-affiliated think tank.)

More from Rolling Stone

• Oh Look, Republicans Suddenly Care About Classified Documents

• Trump Org. Slapped With Maximum Fine for Tax Fraud Scheme

• Merrick Garland Names Special Counsel to Investigate Biden's Classified Docs

There are political issues here, but let’s get the facts as we know them straight first. Biden’s team has found government documents in places where they shouldn’t be, copped to its mistakes, and handed the material back over to authorities. Biden is now facing a special counsel investigation, and he’s planning to cooperate with it. Trump knowingly took documents from the White House to Mar-a-Lago and sat on them. After the FBI found them, he claimed he was the victim of a “Deep State” plot and that he could declassify documents telepathically. And in the aftermath, rather than cooperating, he told his legal team to get “my” documents back, Rolling Stone reported in August.

In summary, though Trump and Biden both have improperly stored documents, Trump’s malfeasance is, so far, orders of magnitude greater. That’s both a fact, and a truly terrible political argument. If “they both had scandals, but some are worse” were an effective argument, Hillary “Emails” Clinton would not have lost to Donald “Self-Described Serial Sexual Assaulter and Prodigious Liar on All Fronts” Trump.

And indeed, Trump’s most effective argument throughout his political career has been whataboutism, where he defends his own behavior by pointing out his critics corresponding flaws, regardless of the difference in scope. Trump’s defense of deeply inhuman border policies was that the Obama-Biden administration had its own, less humane treatment of those seeking help on the southern border. Trump’s charity work is a farce and fraud? Well, have you heard of the Clinton Global Initiative??? Oh, Trump used high office as a perpetual front of self-enrichment? Well, let me tell you about a little guy named Hunter Biden. And on, and on, and on. There is, to widely varying degrees, truth to all of those arguments. (The Obama administration’s treatment of migrants was a moral stain, and one in which Biden is complicit.) But in every case, it’s clear that Trump went well above and well beyond.

In a better world, one with a media landscape that had the credibility to hold politicians of all stripes accountable for their bull****, and one in which the citizenry was ready to scrutinize both the politicians from their party and from the other one, this sort of argument would flop. But none of that is true in this world, and so Candidate “Me Too” Trump won the White House to become President “But Also You Too” Trump. And as an ex-president, his successful use of that tactic is all of our loss.

Biden’s campaign for president had two major goals: The first was to pass some progressive policy, stopping a country that keeps voting left from getting relentlessly wrenched right by conservative zealots. It’s not going flawlessly, but on that front, the president has made headway.

The second goal, however, was the one he was most vocal and unequivocal about. Biden wanted to undo the damage Trump had done to our institutions and reset norms to the point where people of both political parties would condemn horrible actions — anything, say, from mocking a physically disabled reporter to attempting to overturn a legitimate election to stay in power. And on that goal, Biden is having zero success. That’s not all or even mostly his fault: The GOP is in Trump’s thrall and has no interest in getting out. But it’s a big problem if you’d like to have a functional democracy, or even live in any sort of shared reality.

And that’s why a few lousy pages of improperly stored documents are going to matter. It’s going to be one more opportunity for the GOP to normalize Trump — and the things Trump does that threaten our country.

[aubiefifty 19,090]

Just now, jj3jordan said:

The crime is possession and improper storage/removal from their safe storage areas.  Not the failure to return them upon being told to bring them back.

yes i understand jj i just worded it wrong. i can remember being shocked the feds came around my neighborhood and other areas of my life and i cam away clean. i have no idea what has happened to me since jj.

[aubiefifty 19,090]

Just now, aubiefifty said:

yes i understand jj i just worded it wrong. i can remember being shocked the feds came around my neighborhood and other areas of my life and i cam away clean. i have no idea what has happened to me since jj.

i wanted to add i used to have a locked briefcase entrusted to me when i had to deliver sensitive docs to admirals and such.

[Mims44 2,126]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

i am so shocked we agree on anything i am gonna bake you a cake you will love. can you trust me? grins

A cake? I thought you type people only made brownies  

23 hours ago, GoAU said:

Hillary, IMO, was the worst.  Took obviously deliberate steps to circumvent processes to control documents.   It’s hard to claim ignorance when you set up servers.   

I agree, Hillarys moment when they asked her about wiping the server and she just smirks and says 'wipe? Like with a cloth?"

It was like geeze dude, we know she's not that incompetent, what's more is she knows we know she's not that incompetent  

But she also knew she could get away with it so... 🤷‍♂️

 

Trumps was just... sadly, par for the course. garbage president makes garbage decisions. 

and Biden, hell if it came on the news that Biden just 'forgot he wasn't supposed to do that' I'd probably believe it.  

 

 

 

But, by now there's enough precedence set that more people are going to do this, knowing nothing will come of it.

[aubiefifty 19,090]

4 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

A cake? I thought you type people only made brownies  

I agree, Hillarys moment when they asked her about wiping the server and she just smirks and says 'wipe? Like with a cloth?"

It was like geeze dude, we know she's not that incompetent, what's more is she knows we know she's not that incompetent  

But she also knew she could get away with it so... 🤷‍♂️

 

Trumps was just... sadly, par for the course. garbage president makes garbage decisions. 

and Biden, hell if it came on the news that Biden just 'forgot he wasn't supposed to do that' I'd probably believe it.  

 

 

 

But, by now there's enough precedence set that more people are going to do this, knowing nothing will come of it.

um what type am i? lol

[Mims44 2,126]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

um what type am i? lol

 

 

.... 

[homersapien 12,658]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

The crime is possession and improper storage/removal from their safe storage areas.

 Not the failure to return them upon being told to bring them back.

Actually, the first is a crime if it is done knowingly and with intent.  Finding you had such documents in your position if you didn't know you had them and had no intent to possess them, then no crime.  This is easy to claim if - for example -  a staffer boxed them up without your knowing about it. 

The second is a altogether different crime - obstruction of Justice.

My understanding -based on various interviews I have seen - is that regarding Trump, the DOJ is focusing on the obstruction issue, not the simple fact that classified documents were in his possession.  That makes sense considering Trump's efforts to ignore the subpoena and claims he had a legal right to them.

[homersapien 12,658]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

Biden Just Played Right Into Trump’s Hands

Patrick Reis

5–6 minutes

---

 

President Biden Welcomes Japanese Prime Minister Kishida Fumio To The White House - Credit: Getty Images

 

The White House said Saturday that President Joe Biden’s aides had found more classified information stored at his private residence. It is inopportune timing for the president: His team said on Thursday that only one classified page had been found there. Now, it’s up to six.

For an administration whose FBI searched Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate over improper storage of sensitive government materials, it’s a bad look to be having your own issues with improper storage of sensitive government materials. The government has a system for storing sensitive documents, and “Don’t worry gang, it’s my home office,” isn’t part of it. (Especially not when there were secret documents also found at the Penn Biden Center, a Biden-affiliated think tank.)

More from Rolling Stone

• Oh Look, Republicans Suddenly Care About Classified Documents

• Trump Org. Slapped With Maximum Fine for Tax Fraud Scheme

• Merrick Garland Names Special Counsel to Investigate Biden's Classified Docs

There are political issues here, but let’s get the facts as we know them straight first. Biden’s team has found government documents in places where they shouldn’t be, copped to its mistakes, and handed the material back over to authorities. Biden is now facing a special counsel investigation, and he’s planning to cooperate with it. Trump knowingly took documents from the White House to Mar-a-Lago and sat on them. After the FBI found them, he claimed he was the victim of a “Deep State” plot and that he could declassify documents telepathically. And in the aftermath, rather than cooperating, he told his legal team to get “my” documents back, Rolling Stone reported in August.

In summary, though Trump and Biden both have improperly stored documents, Trump’s malfeasance is, so far, orders of magnitude greater. That’s both a fact, and a truly terrible political argument. If “they both had scandals, but some are worse” were an effective argument, Hillary “Emails” Clinton would not have lost to Donald “Self-Described Serial Sexual Assaulter and Prodigious Liar on All Fronts” Trump.

And indeed, Trump’s most effective argument throughout his political career has been whataboutism, where he defends his own behavior by pointing out his critics corresponding flaws, regardless of the difference in scope. Trump’s defense of deeply inhuman border policies was that the Obama-Biden administration had its own, less humane treatment of those seeking help on the southern border. Trump’s charity work is a farce and fraud? Well, have you heard of the Clinton Global Initiative??? Oh, Trump used high office as a perpetual front of self-enrichment? Well, let me tell you about a little guy named Hunter Biden. And on, and on, and on. There is, to widely varying degrees, truth to all of those arguments. (The Obama administration’s treatment of migrants was a moral stain, and one in which Biden is complicit.) But in every case, it’s clear that Trump went well above and well beyond.

In a better world, one with a media landscape that had the credibility to hold politicians of all stripes accountable for their bull****, and one in which the citizenry was ready to scrutinize both the politicians from their party and from the other one, this sort of argument would flop. But none of that is true in this world, and so Candidate “Me Too” Trump won the White House to become President “But Also You Too” Trump. And as an ex-president, his successful use of that tactic is all of our loss.

Biden’s campaign for president had two major goals: The first was to pass some progressive policy, stopping a country that keeps voting left from getting relentlessly wrenched right by conservative zealots. It’s not going flawlessly, but on that front, the president has made headway.

The second goal, however, was the one he was most vocal and unequivocal about. Biden wanted to undo the damage Trump had done to our institutions and reset norms to the point where people of both political parties would condemn horrible actions — anything, say, from mocking a physically disabled reporter to attempting to overturn a legitimate election to stay in power. And on that goal, Biden is having zero success. That’s not all or even mostly his fault: The GOP is in Trump’s thrall and has no interest in getting out. But it’s a big problem if you’d like to have a functional democracy, or even live in any sort of shared reality.

And that’s why a few lousy pages of improperly stored documents are going to matter. It’s going to be one more opportunity for the GOP to normalize Trump — and the things Trump does that threaten our country.

This is exactly why I voted for Klobuchar in the Democratic primary.

I figured it was just a matter of time before he shot himself in the foot.  He has a history of it.

[aubiefifty 19,090]

ok goau and jj? in the seventies i took copies of top secret docs from our communications outfit directly to our crisis center without having to sign anything. and i would sometimes get more copies of documents than i needed so we had a special bin we discarded them in so they could be destroyed. but unless my memory is playing tricks when someone received top secret intelligence did they not have to sign for it? and it is weird some top secret stuff had to be signed for and some did not and i cannot remember why. that was a fun job as we were involved in just about anything that went on around the world. the bad part was i worked directly for the chief of naval operations so we had to be in our dress uni's and spit shinned. no civilian clothes were allowed on duty. and to this day as another aside i have never seen so many drop dead gorgeous women in one place in my life.

[homersapien 12,658]

Just as an aside, I would assume that if one is in the military, the military code of justice holds jurisdiction when it comes to handling classified information. This may be quite different than the civilian code.

So, it's not necessarily illogical - or "unfair" - that the laws regarding the handling of classified information differ for military personnel and the POTUS (or congress).

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by homersapien

[aubiefifty 19,090]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Actually, the first is a crime if it is done knowingly and with intent.  Finding you had such documents in your position if you didn't know you had them and had no intent to possess them, then no crime.  This is easy to claim if - for example -  a staffer boxed them up without your knowing about it. 

The second is a altogether different crime - obstruction of Justice.

My understanding -based on various interviews I have seen - is that regarding Trump, the DOJ is focusing on the obstruction issue, not the simple fact that classified documents were in his possession.  That makes sense considering Trump's efforts to ignore the subpoena and claims he had a legal right to them.

if top secret stuff was given to you when i served from 73 to 77 you better have those docs or a signature or you azz was grass. i am not kidding. this is why i was asking go and jj about it because i had tons of classified docs i had to take back and sort to different groups of people,etc. and they sat me down and in no uncertain terms they told me what would happen if i got careless or lost classified docs. this is why trump and biden both aggravate me over this stuff. back then neither would have lived long enough to see outside of a prison again at both of their ages. it is just not fair but i understand why people get upset.