Actual NYT article

[TexasTiger 12,869]

I don't know him, but he may just be an academic with principles who sees his discipline and department acting unethically and becoming a joke.  I don't see a significant upside for him.  Look at the quick reaction he's already gotten here.

247536[/snapback]

You should go on tour. If he had principles, he wouldn't have scurried to the NYT. That shows what kind of person he is.

247538[/snapback]

You're clearly too unprincipled to even recognize the problem.

[TexasTiger 12,869]

Tell me T2, what happens to Auburn (or Alabama, or Tennessee, or Georgia, or USC) football when you tell an athlete that he has to do substantially more than is required in the classroom if he wants to attend your school?

247537[/snapback]

You don't understand. Read the article. These guys didn't do what is typically required. See if AU keeps this practice. See if the President defends it as acceptable.

[TexasTiger 12,869]

To me there's nothing to blame the"TAHD" about, because this story is nothing. What rules were broke?

247524[/snapback]

True. Where is the rules violation? It not necessarily right, but it is not something that needs to be published by one of the nations largest newspaper like someone outing a CIA agent. I'm not saying do not report it but why go to the NY Times unless you want to make the uni look bad for whatever personal bitch, gripe, complaint you have. There are many fine newspapers regionally where people who are closer to the university are going to read it. It makes me wonder if Thamel does not have some agenda as well.

Grunlach is a tool who has sour grapes because he did not get Peete fired or removed from leading the department. This is the only reason we are typing anything on a message board about it. He did not get his way so he is going to go out and yell from the biggest mountain top he can find that "Auburn is dirty!!!!!".

I wonder if he is one of the profs on campus who hate or loath the athletic programs of the university.

Again I am reminded that of Shug Jordan's quote about Auburn tearing its self apart.

From the sound of it, the problem has already been corrected. If he is not teaching so many independent study classes anymore, where is the problem that needs correcting?

247539[/snapback]

Petee is the one you should be upset with. He lowered the standard at the school your so proud of. Petee put Auburn in a bad position.

[Boonan 0]

Yeah, it's well known most places that your average professor hates athletics. Look at Birmingham Southern. Almost nobody wanted them going down to D-III, but when they did it the paper talked about faculty celebrating. Nothing like a little up yours from the faculty. They just hate that not everyone in their classes wants to be just like them and be a book nut. They need to get out and have some fun or something.

[Tiger1992 999]

You know what...I dont think AU lost to Wisconsin...i think Bama pulled their media strings and got all the news outlets to show a staged game that never really happened.

247520[/snapback]

I hadn't that about that before, but now that you mention it, that must be what happened. I don't know how the hell else we embarrassed ourselves that bad against Wisfrigginconsin.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

again, galen is right on.....it would appear to me that since 75% of the students were non-athletes, it would be an academic concern that encompasses all students, rather than just athletes...i wonder why they singled out athletes taking these classes and just the students in general?....every damn one of you know why, if not, read galens post....a troubling article,for sure.....but it is nothing more than a feeble bammerfart attempt to bring us down to their level that will amount to very little.... the conspiracy is there and fineschitt pointed it out yeaterday....troubling?yes, embarrassing? yes.....fatal? not a damn chance....as far being on the level of the bammerfarts, i stepped in something that my dog left that is far above those miserable SOB's

[GalensGhost 0]

Tell me T2, what happens to Auburn (or Alabama, or Tennessee, or Georgia, or USC) football when you tell an athlete that he has to do substantially more than is required in the classroom if he wants to attend your school?

247537[/snapback]

You don't understand. Read the article. These guys didn't do what is typically required. See if AU keeps this practice. See if the President defends it as acceptable.

247542[/snapback]

Accepted practice or not, there is nothing illegal about it. What is 'typically required" is entirely up to the professor. I took a correspondence course. To complete the requirements all I had to do was read one book and write a 5-15 page paper on a topic assigned. I got junior level credit for that. Should I return that credit now? Should I go back and sit through Dr. Bumblebore's class for a semester so I can reclaim my degree?

It's nothing that other schools don't do. And since it is NOT illegal -- and since there is quite obviously no official policy against it -- then I don't see the issue.

See my post about running 90 down the road. If the school looks at it and decides that it's too much for one person to handle and estabilshes a policy against it, then I would expect Auburn athletes and all other students and professors to abide by it. Until there is such a policy, then there is no reason why it can't be done if the professor decides that it fits within his time constraints -- regardless of what another *****bag in his department thinks.

[Grider 1]

Petee is the one you should be upset with.  He lowered the standard at the school your so proud of.  Petee put Auburn in a bad position.

247543[/snapback]

No, Petee did the same things that professors in other departement and other schools have done to help STUDENTS not just student atheletes get through school.

I am upset at someone who instead of letting the university handle its own problems AGAIN goes running to a newspaper. There is nothing here that required the national intervention and spotlight of the New York Times.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

Do not give out emails and encourage people to add to the problem. -- The Mgmt.

[GalensGhost 0]

[You're clearly too unprincipled to even recognize the problem.

247541[/snapback]

I have enough principles to know how a real man handles things. If this guy had a problem, he should have gone through the proper channels.

Gathering up his "evidence" and deep throating with a NYTimes reporter is not how a man -- particularly an Auburn man -- would resolve the situation.

T2, I don't want Auburn to look bad. I don't want AU to do anything that is outside or skirts the law. But if you can't see the obvious agenda here, I'm dumbfounded.

If there was no agenda, why did the NYTimes not take the time to contact other schools of similar size and inquire as to their policies and practices?

If there was no agenda, why did this professor give his evidence to the NYTimes instead of to the division chair, the dean, the provost or the president? He got what he wanted. HE embarassed Auburn, because that was his agenda. His name is in the paper, he can sit home and feel smug because he is "famous" and he showed his boss what was what. If I was his boss, I would fire him tomorrow morning for failure to follow protocol.

[auwallace 6]

i know both individuals fairly well seeing as i'm a graduate student studying archaeology (i have to go through the sociology program). I pm'd dkw last week with this exact story and he wrote it off. Bottom line is that if petee was doing his job correctly in administering directed reading classes there would be no way in hell he could have done it with that many kids. In a real directed reading class you actually should have to work for those three credit hours and study something not normally offered. Basically we should not stand up for this crap and eat our crow. Id love to have a great student athelete program but i want it done the right way.

[KunzelTiger 0]

I'm not sure if anyone noticed...but the article cites that he is responsible for 97 credits on 18 students....thats 5.38 credits per student.... pretty much 1 and 2/3 of a class....

That is worth 4.4% of a degree (assuming a 120 hour degree)...New York Times you are wasting your Times...lol

[Grider 1]

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=70921

Ignore the first post and the one under review. Sounds like a real winner.

[GalensGhost 0]

You guys have GOT to be kidding me if you think Tuscaloosa news told NYT would tell the NYT what to write.

Isnt it just perfect...the first hint of trouble and you guys dont look at the problem or how to fix it...you blame bama for it. After 5 years of dogging us for feeling cheated by UT. It takes 37 seconds and you guys instantly blame bama.

UA didnt create your sociology dept. Blame them. But at least this way you get to keep that AU double standard going.

I guess the SACS issues were part of a big Bama conspiracy too huh?

Hey I'll bet Montae Pitts and Kevin Sears were TRICKED into getting drunk by some bama fan.

Trey Blackmon didnt get in trouble...it was just a bama media story.

You know what...I dont think AU lost to Wisconsin...i think Bama pulled their media strings and got all the news outlets to show a staged game that never really happened.

247520[/snapback]

Don't take it to extremes. No, the TNews didn't "tell the NYT" what to write. But through their contacts there and via a disgruntled professor, they did feed the information. The NYTimes -- with a little push from St.John -- decided to write it even if it was about nothing.

If you can answer this question, I'll stand down and admit to being 100% wrong. If there was no agenda whatsoever, why did the NYTimes not follow the basic tenets of journalistic integrity and ask other schools of comparable size about similar academic practices?

If I were writing an article about Hilton hotels overcharging for rooms, I'd at least check the rates at the Sheraton, Marriott and other similar hotels in the same area before I did.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

galen,you are preaching to the choir, as far as i am concerned....i know where it came from and why....folks, this is about football......this is a bammerfart orchestrated conspiracy that will not work and when the inaccuracies are brought to light you'll see that this is nothing more than an attempt by the scumbags at the crapstone to discredit AU....the great dr. gundlach was just a pawn...pitiful, self-absorbed pawn....his life will be miserable from now on

[Captain Liger 0]

why did the NYTimes not follow the basic tenets of journalistic integrity

247560[/snapback]

Because there's no such thing to them. Don't you know? The American people have a right to know what's going on down at Auburn.

[TexasTiger 12,869]

No, Petee did the same things that professors in other departement and other schools have done to help STUDENTS not just student atheletes get through school.

247550[/snapback]

Professor Petee’s mentor, a former sociology department director, Greg Kowalski, said he considered Professor Petee like “a brother.” Still, he said, he could not find any comparable situation at Auburn in which one teacher taught so many directed-reading courses.

No respectable academician does this. It cannot be done well.

[StatTiger 3,188]

If I were writing an article about Hilton hotels overcharging for rooms, I'd at least check the rates at the Sheraton, Marriott and other similar hotels in the same area before I did.

247560[/snapback]

Bingo!!!

[AUwingsfan 1]

well we've managed to make the Drudge Report ..........

http://www.drudgereport.com/

it's over in the bottom right area, and it links to the Opelika-Auburn News.....

[auwallace 6]

No, Petee did the same things that professors in other departement and other schools have done to help STUDENTS not just student atheletes get through school.

247550[/snapback]

Professor Petee’s mentor, a former sociology department director, Greg Kowalski, said he considered Professor Petee like “a brother.” Still, he said, he could not find any comparable situation at Auburn in which one teacher taught so many directed-reading courses.

No respectable academician does this. It cannot be done well.

247563[/snapback]

well said, while i dont agree with the way gundlach handled it, this isn't right. Forget alabama and the new york times, lets worry about auburn.

[BamaGrad03 0]

If you can answer this question, I'll stand down and admit to being 100% wrong. If there was no agenda whatsoever, why did the NYTimes not follow the basic tenets of journalistic integrity and ask other schools of comparable size about similar academic practices?

Because in this situation they had a story from an actual AU professor who is pretty darn high up. They cant go door to door at other universities begging them to find a prof willing to dish dirt on his employer.

Which brings me to the other point...even IF there is a UA influence on getting the story written...its ONLY newsworthy because the whistleblowing came from an AU prof, not Alabama. So if there's a problem here...blame it on the AU prof...not some 3 of 4th degree of seperation who may have attended a football game at Bama.

[Grider 1]

Professor Petee’s mentor, a former sociology department director, Greg Kowalski, said he considered Professor Petee like “a brother.” Still, he said, he could not find any comparable situation at Auburn in which one teacher taught so many directed-reading courses.

No respectable academician does this. It cannot be done well.

247563[/snapback]

I'll actually agree with you on that note. He did over extend himself and when he was told to stop, he stopped. He did this for other students not just student athletes.

Again

Clara voice

Where's the crime?

/Clara Voice

[GalensGhost 0]

No respectable academician does this.  It cannot be done well.

247563[/snapback]

There are many things academicians do on a daily basis that they cannot do well. Many are overburdened.

I know professors who teach a full load at one school, handle a number of online classes and serve as adjunts for other schools -- and do it all simultaneously. One I know personally did all this while also TAKING classes to advance his degree. Truth be told, he did none of it well. But it certainly wasn't against any rules and the NYTimes didn't knock on his door.

Being overburdened or taking on more than you can manage is not a crime. In America it's a badge of honor.

If all the students in question were athletes, then perhaps we have a point. Since the vast majority were not, what we have here is a handful of nothing.

[TexasTiger 12,869]

[You're clearly too unprincipled to even recognize the problem.

247541[/snapback]

I have enough principles to know how a real man handles things. If this guy had a problem, he should have gone through the proper channels.

Gathering up his "evidence" and deep throating with a NYTimes reporter is not how a man -- particularly an Auburn man -- would resolve the situation.

T2, I don't want Auburn to look bad. I don't want AU to do anything that is outside or skirts the law. But if you can't see the obvious agenda here, I'm dumbfounded.

If there was no agenda, why did the NYTimes not take the time to contact other schools of similar size and inquire as to their policies and practices?

If there was no agenda, why did this professor give his evidence to the NYTimes instead of to the division chair, the dean, the provost or the president? He got what he wanted. HE embarassed Auburn, because that was his agenda. His name is in the paper, he can sit home and feel smug because he is "famous" and he showed his boss what was what. If I was his boss, I would fire him tomorrow morning for failure to follow protocol.

247554[/snapback]

Who said the writer had no agenda? Who said it was particularly balanced? Who said, similarly bad, if not identical crap goes on in many other places? I don't dispute any of that. But that doesn't mean I'm unconcerned about or dismiss the underlying actions in question.

Read the article. He did first turn it over the Heilman:

Professor Gundlach took the case to John Heilman, a university administrator who would soon become Auburn’s provost. He included paperwork showing that Professor Petee taught more than 250 students individually during the 2004-5 academic year. He also provided Mr. Heilman with examples of how prominent athletes had cut academic corners.

After Professor Gundlach turned over many of his findings to The New York Times and a reporter began questioning administrators in May, the provost’s office began an investigation. Mr. Heilman said in a prepared statement that the investigation began on June 5 after an anonymous complaint was submitted.

Again, I don't know Gundlach or if he had a particular ax to grind. But I can certainly envision someone in his shoes being genuinely disgusted with this practice.

If our standards are merely, "don't violate law," then we are pretty pathetic.

If you see as merely a source of sports entertainment, then these facts may not bother you much. If you are concerned with how the University is perceived, and, in fact, performs, as an academic institution, and as an alum I very much am, then this will bother you.

Others may be doing it. I don't accept that excuse from my kids or my employees. The same rules of right and wrong apply to everyone, IMHO, but I expect more of my family than someone else's family, more from my kids than the neighbor's kids, more from my country than other countries and more from my school than other schools. I expect my folks to do things right, regardless of what others do, and get irritated by lame-ass excuses. This may not have been academic fraud, but it is a long damn way from academic excellence.

[Grider 1]

Which brings me to the other point...even IF there is a UA influence on getting the story written...its ONLY newsworthy because the whistleblowing came from an AU prof, not Alabama. So if there's a problem here...blame it on the AU prof...not some 3 of 4th degree of seperation who may have attended a football game at Bama.

247567[/snapback]

It is not even newsworthy in the first place.

I don't blame Bama, nor any of its graduates. It is an Auburn problem that has not even had the chance to be handled through the universities own channels yet. Why is it in the NYT?

The slant on the story is what bothers the hell out of most people here. The fact that he did this for over 150 students and they only mention what 5 athletes who took his classes? Call out Timmy McNormalStudent from Dogpatch for taking an known easy class as well.

It is the sort of unbiased reporting that I expect from all the media these days, so I guess one should not be surprised by the obvious slant.

Why is the NYT reporting about the football program when there is a 24yo woman from Auburn who vanished like a fart in the wind over a month ago? That sounds more newsworthy to me than OMG Students Take Easy Classes With Help of Willing Professor.