Iraq's Shiites Insist on Democracy

[Donutboy 0]

For seven months, the United States has tried to finesse two crucial questions about the future of Iraq: How much control will the country's Shiite majority have over the drafting of a constitution? And how Islamic will that constitution be?

The answers could determine whether Iraq becomes a multiparty democracy, an Islamic theocracy, or even slides into civil war....

..... In addition, it is unclear whether the United States, whose motives for invading Iraq are regarded with skepticism by many, will feel it can oppose a clear call for popular democracy — exactly what the United States said it wanted to bring to Iraq.

The United States and the American-appointed Governing Council agreed on Nov. 15 that council members and local governments would choose an assembly next June to pick an interim Iraqi government. That government would then draft a constitution. The process would probably mute the influence of Ayatollah Sistani and the other three Shiite grand ayatollahs who live in Najaf, about 100 miles south of Baghdad....

Gee, we'd hate for the Iraqis to determine their own democracy, wouldn't we? They might not be beholding to the Bush administration that's showering hundreds of billions of American taxpayer dollars for future oil considerations!!

Iraq's Shiites Insist on Democracy. Washington Cringes.

[Tiger Al 0]

Imagine if they freely elected another Saddam Hussein. I guess we'd have to bomb them again until they got it right.

[Donutboy 0]

Imagine if they freely elected another Saddam Hussein. I guess we'd have to bomb them again until they got it right.

Actually, on Nightline last night, they showed Iraqis in the street clearly calling for the return of Saddam Hussein. They said at least he didn't show up in the middle of the night, busting their doors in, imprisoning the occupants and searching their homes. What goodwill we had in Iraq immediately after the occupation is now gone and more and more resentment is being shown by the Iraqis on a daily basis.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Or, if you aren't cherry picking the article for quotes to fit your preconceived paradigm, you could acknowledge that this is a complex situation with many factors to consider. Such as:

But finding a compromise may be difficult.  Mr. Hussein, a Sunni, impoverished much of Shiite southern Iraq, and jailed or killed many Shiite leaders.  Now the Shiites want power to match their numbers  — which is precisely what the Kurds and Sunnis fear. In addition, the United States is concerned that many of Iraq's Shiite clerics are supported by the anti-American Iranian theocracy.

I do hope that even you Donutboy, in your blind quest for any club to use against Bush, can see that rushing to democracy, when you take into account all of the issues involved with the Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, would be a grave mistake. Not to mention how irresponsible it would be to go in and rid the world of one tyrant, only to half-ass the job and allow a tyranny of the majority to become just another version of an oppressive government to the Iraqi people.

[Donutboy 0]

Or, if you aren't cherry picking the article for quotes to fit your preconceived paradigm, you could acknowledge that this is a complex situation with many factors to consider. Such as:

But finding a compromise may be difficult.  Mr. Hussein, a Sunni, impoverished much of Shiite southern Iraq, and jailed or killed many Shiite leaders.  Now the Shiites want power to match their numbers  — which is precisely what the Kurds and Sunnis fear. In addition, the United States is concerned that many of Iraq's Shiite clerics are supported by the anti-American Iranian theocracy.

I do hope that even you Donutboy, in your blind quest for any club to use against Bush, can see that rushing to democracy, when you take into account all of the issues involved with the Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, would be a grave mistake. Not to mention how irresponsible it would be to go in and rid the world of one tyrant, only to half-(vulgar word) the job and allow a tyranny of the majority to become just another version of an oppressive government to the Iraqi people.

Let me get this straight. We want to give the Iraqis a Democracy but only if it's lead by the group that we want to be in power. I've seen that script before. Go to Google and look up everything that you can learn about the man we put in power in Iran, the Shah of Iran, and why that government collapsed and returned the Ayotollah to power, making the Iranians one of our most bitter enemies!!

[Tiger Al 0]

Or, if you aren't cherry picking the article for quotes to fit your preconceived paradigm, you could acknowledge that this is a complex situation with many factors to consider. Such as:

But finding a compromise may be difficult.  Mr. Hussein, a Sunni, impoverished much of Shiite southern Iraq, and jailed or killed many Shiite leaders.  Now the Shiites want power to match their numbers  — which is precisely what the Kurds and Sunnis fear. In addition, the United States is concerned that many of Iraq's Shiite clerics are supported by the anti-American Iranian theocracy.

I do hope that even you Donutboy, in your blind quest for any club to use against Bush, can see that rushing to democracy, when you take into account all of the issues involved with the Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, would be a grave mistake. Not to mention how irresponsible it would be to go in and rid the world of one tyrant, only to half-ass the job and allow a tyranny of the majority to become just another version of an oppressive government to the Iraqi people.

This job was half-assed from the beginning. We shouldn't have spit in the face of the UN when they didn't want to play by our rules. Instead, we should have had an international coalition (US,UK and Aussies don't completely fit the description) of forces ready to step in after the fight to sort the inevitible mess that was to occur. That would mean the Bushies would have to share, a concept they have no capacity to grasp.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Let me get this straight. We want to give the Iraqis a Democracy but only if it's lead by the group that we want to be in power. I've seen that script before. Go to Google and look up everything that you can learn about the man we put in power in Iran, the Shah of Iran, and why that government collapsed and returned the Ayotollah to power, making the Iranians one of our most bitter enemies!!

Only San Francisco would call your assessment "getting it straight".

We want to give the Iraqis a democracy. But we don't want to rush into it and just let the chips fall where they may. The Sunnis and Kurds don't even want that. They are scared of what the Shiites would do if they were given that kind of power without time to put in proper checks and balances...safeguards to ensure they don't replace one tyrant with another that doesn't reside in the form of one person.

Why do you twist my words around? Can you not debate something like a grown person? I'm not saying we set up a puppet government. What I am saying is that we don't just rush to hand over power and allow another oppressive regime, under the guise of "democracy", to be set up that would not only be oppressive to minority factions in Iraq, but would be just as hostile (albeit for different reasons) to the US and Western civilization in general.

[Donutboy 0]

Let me get this straight. We want to give the Iraqis a Democracy but only if it's lead by the group that we want to be in power. I've seen that script before. Go to Google and look up everything that you can learn about the man we put in power in Iran, the Shah of Iran, and why that government collapsed and returned the Ayotollah to power, making the Iranians one of our most bitter enemies!!

Only San Francisco would call your assessment "getting it straight".

We want to give the Iraqis a democracy. But we don't want to rush into it and just let the chips fall where they may. The Sunnis and Kurds don't even want that. They are scared of what the Shiites would do if they were given that kind of power without time to put in proper checks and balances...safeguards to ensure they don't replace one tyrant with another that doesn't reside in the form of one person.

Why do you twist my words around? Can you not debate something like a grown person? I'm not saying we set up a puppet government. What I am saying is that we don't just rush to hand over power and allow another oppressive regime, under the guise of "democracy", to be set up that would not only be oppressive to minority factions in Iraq, but would be just as hostile (albeit for different reasons) to the US and Western civilization in general.

Did you read the article? The only thing the Shiites, who comprise about 60% of the Iraqi population, are asking is that the governing council be composed of a representative number ofrepresentatives for each group. They're not asking to create the entire government by themselves. Our Democracy was created solely by middle aged white men and there were problems to begin with but these problems were resolved and are still being resolved on a continuing basis. The new Iraqi Democracy won't be perfect, whichever way it starts but if done with a majority rule ideal as we have in OUR Democracy, it can be a living document as our Constitution is.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Well, as the article also said, the Sunnis and Kurds ARE worried about it. There is a history to consider here.

The bottom line is, it is more important to do this thing RIGHT than it is to do it FAST.