Cottrell accuses judge of bias

[AUesquire 1]

Actually, it makes no sense and is backed up with zero facts. Again, I want someone to make something stick to Cottrell. You'll be just as successful as the NCAA was.

Also, what's this bunk about us buying the 1999 SEC Championship? The NCAA has stated that the improprieties started with the 2000 recruitment of Albert Means. In the novel of a judgement they delivered against us, nothing is mentioned about 1999. ...

Have you read Bragging Rights a Season Inside the SEC College Football's Toughest Conference by Richard Ernsberger? If not, I highly recommend it. It was published in 2000 but it follows the SEC teams during the 1999 season. The chapters on recruiting are very enlightening.

Did you know that Dubose hired Ronnie Cottrell away from FSU in '97 making him the uat Recruiting Coordinator with a salary in excess of $100k? {p. 156} Did you know that uat used a 3-coach approval process for each recruit? {p.171} That means the territorial recruiter, the position coach & the recruiting coordinator all had to agree to offer a kid a scholarship. There is no way possible Cottrell was unaware of Albert Means -- and what it took to get him to uat. Ivy Williams was the Memphis area recruiter. Did you know that uat snagged the top recruit in Memphis for 3 years straight culminating with Means? {p.192} Try to calculate the odds of UT coming down to sign the top recruit out of Mobile 3 years running. This is a crucial piece of information because Lynn Lang is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. To think he cooked up a plan to sell Albert Means' services to uat all on his own is naivete in Forrest Gump terms. Kindal Moorehead was one of the other Memphis recruits to sign with uat. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce Lynn Lang saw what was going on with Kindal Moorehead's recruitment and decided he wanted a piece of that action too. Oh yeah, the mention of Ronnie Cottrell in Bragging Rights isn't even associated with Albert Means. Cottrell is mentioned prominantly regarding another questionable recruitment -- that of Justin Smilely. You remember him don't you? He orignally had committed to UF, but then 3 days before signing day, uat flew him & his mother from Statesboro to Tuscaloosa in a private Lear jet and made one last recruiting pitch to attend uat. In the end, he signed with uat. Here's what Ernsberger wrote {p. 189}:

Last May I talked to Terri for the last time. There was talk that Alabama was being investigated for recruiting violations. Spurrier's reaction was interesting. "I'm not surprised," said the Florida coach. Terri wanted to know what I knew. Not much, I said. She and Justin had just returned from Tuscaloosa, she said where they bought two new vehicles -- a Ford F150 for Justin and a Ford Expedition, which Terri planned to drive to Bama games. She mentions car payments of $700 a month. She seems defensive about the purchases. "I got proof that I bought 'em," she says. "They videotaped me signing the papers at the dealership." Why drive all the way from Georgia to Alabama to buy cars? "I shopped around," she said. "I got a better deal in Alabama."

Would you stop already with facts? No one can make anything stick to Cotrell. Just get over it. He is Coach Teflon, head coach of the Ozark Eagles and you need to accept that.

[WinCrimson 61]

Actually, it makes no sense and is backed up with zero facts. Again, I want someone to make something stick to Cottrell. You'll be just as successful as the NCAA was.

Also, what's this bunk about us buying the 1999 SEC Championship? The NCAA has stated that the improprieties started with the 2000 recruitment of Albert Means. In the novel of a judgement they delivered against us, nothing is mentioned about 1999. ...

Have you read Bragging Rights a Season Inside the SEC College Football's Toughest Conference by Richard Ernsberger? If not, I highly recommend it. It was published in 2000 but it follows the SEC teams during the 1999 season. The chapters on recruiting are very enlightening.

Did you know that Dubose hired Ronnie Cottrell away from FSU in '97 making him the uat Recruiting Coordinator with a salary in excess of $100k? {p. 156} Did you know that uat used a 3-coach approval process for each recruit? {p.171} That means the territorial recruiter, the position coach & the recruiting coordinator all had to agree to offer a kid a scholarship. There is no way possible Cottrell was unaware of Albert Means -- and what it took to get him to uat. Ivy Williams was the Memphis area recruiter. Did you know that uat snagged the top recruit in Memphis for 3 years straight culminating with Means? {p.192} Try to calculate the odds of UT coming down to sign the top recruit out of Mobile 3 years running. This is a crucial piece of information because Lynn Lang is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. To think he cooked up a plan to sell Albert Means' services to uat all on his own is naivete in Forrest Gump terms. Kindal Moorehead was one of the other Memphis recruits to sign with uat. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce Lynn Lang saw what was going on with Kindal Moorehead's recruitment and decided he wanted a piece of that action too. Oh yeah, the mention of Ronnie Cottrell in Bragging Rights isn't even associated with Albert Means. Cottrell is mentioned prominantly regarding another questionable recruitment -- that of Justin Smilely. You remember him don't you? He orignally had committed to UF, but then 3 days before signing day, uat flew him & his mother from Statesboro to Tuscaloosa in a private Lear jet and made one last recruiting pitch to attend uat. In the end, he signed with uat. Here's what Ernsberger wrote {p. 189}:

Last May I talked to Terri for the last time. There was talk that Alabama was being investigated for recruiting violations. Spurrier's reaction was interesting. "I'm not surprised," said the Florida coach. Terri wanted to know what I knew. Not much, I said. She and Justin had just returned from Tuscaloosa, she said where they bought two new vehicles -- a Ford F150 for Justin and a Ford Expedition, which Terri planned to drive to Bama games. She mentions car payments of $700 a month. She seems defensive about the purchases. "I got proof that I bought 'em," she says. "They videotaped me signing the papers at the dealership." Why drive all the way from Georgia to Alabama to buy cars? "I shopped around," she said. "I got a better deal in Alabama."

Juicy allegations with zero proof. That's all you've got. Did Michael Moore happen to write the preface of the "novel" you quoted?

Again, the burden of proof is not on Cottrell. Sorry.

[AUloggerhead 2,252]

Juicy allegations with zero proof. That's all you've got. Did Michael Moore happen to write the preface of the "novel" you quoted?

Again, the burden of proof is not on Cottrell. Sorry.

I see. Apparently, the title of "Recruiting Coordinator" and multiple instances of highly questionable recruitment practices -- one so blatant that even the NCAA couldn't ignore -- mean little to you.

To the people in the football coaching community (the ones in the know that might actually offer Cottrell a job,) clearly the burden of clearing his reputation lies with Mr. Cottrell and not the enforcement arm of the NCAA. The coaching community must know the NCAA "cleared" Cottrell of any wrongdoing, as you said. So, why aren't they flocking to hire this recruiting genius with the unblemished record? You & everyone else knows the real reason why. Could it be that he'd be as welcome in a Div-1A program as the proverbial "turd in the punchbowl?"

[quietfan 233]

Again, the burden of proof is not on Cottrell. Sorry.

Are you refering to the actual Means affair in Memphis or the current lawsuit? I'm no lawyer, but if Cottrell is the plaintiff in the current lawsuit, then wouldn't the burden of proof be on him? Now if you're talking about his guilt or innocence in any actual wrongdoing in Memphis, then I agree the burden of proof is not on him.

But a couple of questions come to mind, that I'll admit I'm uncertain about:

1) Regarding Memphis itself, I don't remember exactly what role, in any, Williams and Cottrell played in Logan Young's federal trial. Were they indicted or investigated by the feds? Did they even testify at the trial? (I know the two high school coaches involved plea-bargained.) One of the charges LY was convicted off was "crossing state lines to commit racketeering". Now the two high school coaches that pled guilty were both in Memphis. So who was LY conspiring with across state lines? If it wasn't Cottrell or Williams, why didn't the feds go after someone else not in Tennessee?

2) Regarding the time frame:

The NCAA has stated that the improprieties started with the 2000 recruitment of Albert Means. In the novel of a judgement they delivered against us, nothing is mentioned about 1999. ...

Didn't Bama fall under repeat offender status with the NCAA? Wouldn't that imply Bama was doing something wrong before Albert Means in 2000? (I will admit my memory is unclear on the whole "repeat offender" thing, however.)

[DKW 86 7,440]

Without beating the dead horse here yet again, this all started up in Memphis with Kendall Moorehead. The SEC rumors on the Tide started with him and never went away. They just kept doing what they did so well in Memphis for so many years and it finally bit them in the butt.

WC, at this time you were what 9 years old? Cottrell and the rest were involved with the recruiting and knew what was going on. LY didnt just wake up on a saturday morning and think to hisself..."Thank I 'll go and buy me a fat DL from Trezevant HS. Think I'll just piss away $150K on him. For no particular reason." As Forrest Gump would say. No, he was directed to go make illegal contact with AM, LL, and MK so that they could bag them a cool DL. I doubt LY even knew the difference between a DL and a Waldorf Salad.

Look WC, you didnt have to see the knife going into Nicole Brown Simpson to KNOW who the perp was. There was clear and convincing evidence for anyone not living in So. Cal smog for a 100 years to see. Same with RC. Everyone in the SEC knew what he was upto, even while he was back at FSU.

Like I said, the Dubose staff wanted him and Wiliams gone. They went to PF and others about it. They knew what was about to happen. Culpepper knew what was about to happen. Others knew what was about to happen too. Kendall Moorehead's recruitment had tipped the entire SEC off as to what was going on in Memphis. Dubose was so damaged by the affair and the first 4-7 season that he could not wipe his rear end with out someone telling him it was ok. Dubose has told his family he wanted to "get rid of some folks" but he didnt have the authority to do it with the GOBs pulling the strings.

But I guess you got us on one point: OJ didnt do it either. Hitler never intended for those poor old Jews to die, he wasnt there when they were killed. Saddam never gassed the Kurds. Jim Jones never really killed all those people in Guyana. Manson wasnt there when all those folks were killed either, he must be innocent too.

You know, wc, I cant prove to you that there is a God, but I and many more KNOW he is there.

As intelligent as you are, you know how silly this sounds? Come on!

[AUesquire 1]

Without beating the dead horse here yet again, this all started up in Memphis with Kendall Moorehead. The SEC rumors on the Tide started with him and never went away. They just kept doing what they did so well in Memphis for so many years and it finally bit them in the butt.

WC, at this time you were what 9 years old? Cottrell and the rest were involved with the recruiting and knew what was going on. LY didnt just wake up on a saturday morning and think to hisself..."Thank I 'll go and buy me a fat DL from Trezevant HS. Think I'll just piss away $150K on him. For no particular reason." As Forrest Gump would say. No, he was directed to go make illegal contact with AM, LL, and MK so that they could bag them a cool DL. I doubt LY even knew the difference between a DL and a Waldorf Salad.

Look WC, you didnt have to see the knife going into Nicole Brown Simpson to KNOW who the perp was. There was clear and convincing evidence for anyone not living in So. Cal smog for a 100 years to see. Same with RC. Everyone in the SEC knew what he was upto, even while he was back at FSU.

Like I said, the Dubose staff wanted him and Wiliams gone. They went to PF and others about it. They knew what was about to happen. Culpepper knew what was about to happen. Others knew what was about to happen too. Kendall Moorehead's recruitment had tipped the entire SEC off as to what was going on in Memphis. Dubose was so damaged by the affair and the first 4-7 season that he could not wipe his rear end with out someone telling him it was ok. Dubose has told his family he wanted to "get rid of some folks" but he didnt have the authority to do it with the GOBs pulling the strings.

But I guess you got us on one point: OJ didnt do it either. Hitler never intended for those poor old Jews to die, he wasnt there when they were killed. Saddam never gassed the Kurds. Jim Jones never really killed all those people in Guyana. Manson wasnt there when all those folks were killed either, he must be innocent too.

You know, wc, I cant prove to you that there is a God, but I and many more KNOW he is there.

As intelligent as you are, you know how silly this sounds? Come on!

And that should just about wrap this subject up. Any questions class? No?

Post of the week, Dave

[WinCrimson 61]

There is proof that Hitler killed the Jews, that Saddam gassed the Kurds, and that Bill did have sexual relations with that woman. Hard, proven evidence.

I know Cottrell personally. He's a good man who works TIRELESSLY for his players and school. Until it can be proven that he's got blood on his hands, he's not the killer. The NCAA had NO proven evidence against anyone connected w/ UA. I wonder why we didn't get lack of institutional control? Hmmm?

The NCAA has cleared him. The only ones that are desperately holding out hope that he's guilty are you fans. Fans of a school who's coach he has a good relationship with. This isn't a Alabama v. Auburn battle, guys.

[GalensGhost 0]

There is proof that Hitler killed the Jews, that Saddam gassed the Kurds, and that Bill did have sexual relations with that woman. Hard, proven evidence.

I know Cottrell personally. He's a good man who works TIRELESSLY for his players and school. Until it can be proven that he's got blood on his hands, he's not the killer. The NCAA had NO proven evidence against anyone connected w/ UA. I wonder why we didn't get lack of institutional control? Hmmm?

The NCAA has cleared him. The only ones that are desperately holding out hope that he's guilty are you fans. Fans of a school who's coach he has a good relationship with. This isn't a Alabama v. Auburn battle, guys.

He had a well-deserved reputation as a dirty recruiter when he came to Alabama and he did nothing to diminish that reputation while in Tuscaloosa.

Tickets anyone?

I'm sorry you know the guy personally because that makes this harder for you to accept. But what you're doing is looking at mangled, smoking vehicles all over the road, uprooted grass along the median and tire marks everywhere. But since you didn't see the collision, there must not have been a wreck. Nobody WANTS the guy to be guilty and nobody's HOPING he is. Simple fact is that his hands are dirty. That's not a wish or a hope, that's a reality.

Visit a prison sometime, WC. You'll find a lot of earnest people in there who will profess their innocence with the straightest of faces. You'll find good people there who work hard and just want a chance. Nobody makes a more compelling convert than a prisoner.

The reason you didn't get hammered with a lack of institutional control is because of the people you now crucify -- Robbins among them -- who put their personal lives on hold and their reputations on the line to keep the NCAA from lopping your heads off. But they're the bad guys and Cottrell is one of the good guys. Right.... This, my young friend, is precisely what's wrong with Alabama and why it will never be what you wish it was.

FWIW? Hitler never killed anybody. You're wrong there.

[DKW 86 7,440]

Wc, if you want even more detail I will give on email.

dward2002@charter.net

My faimly has REs in it and I know even more details about how the NCAA investigation went down and why RC and IW were "cleared."

[aumd03 2]

Wc, if you want even more detail I will give on email.

dward2002@charter.net

My faimly has REs in it and I know even more details about how the NCAA investigation went down and why RC and IW were "cleared."

Does anyone know where you can find the report the NCAA published?

I'm curious as to what caused them to find "lack of institutional control. Was it just a rogue booster? Or was there a link to someone employed by the university? I should probably know more about this, but I didn't follow it more closely at the time it was happening. DKW, you seem to be well informed. Do you know where I can find more information with links and such?

I still say that Cotrell is full of it. If he were that good of a coach, in today's cut-throat world, where one school is willing to fork over $4 mil a year, then someone would hire him for cheap and take a chance on him. Either he's really dirty, or people are very suspicious for some reason, or he's just not that good a coach and maybe just a good check writer.

[DKW 86 7,440]

Wc, if you want even more detail I will give on email.

dward2002@charter.net

My faimly has REs in it and I know even more details about how the NCAA investigation went down and why RC and IW were "cleared."

Does anyone know where you can find the report the NCAA published?

I'm curious as to what caused them to find "lack of institutional control. Was it just a rogue booster? Or was there a link to someone employed by the university? I should probably know more about this, but I didn't follow it more closely at the time it was happening. DKW, you seem to be well informed. Do you know where I can find more information with links and such?

I still say that Cotrell is full of it. If he were that good of a coach, in today's cut-throat world, where one school is willing to fork over $4 mil a year, then someone would hire him for cheap and take a chance on him. Either he's really dirty, or people are very suspicious for some reason, or he's just not that good a coach and maybe just a good check writer.

It is on the web, just google and be prepared to read a long time. I just got thru with 10-15 minutes and there is no way to tell if the individual articles are what you are looking for or not.

[quietfan 233]

Does anyone know where you can find the report the NCAA published?

It is on the web, just google and be prepared to read a long time. I just got thru with 10-15 minutes and there is no way to tell if the individual articles are what you are looking for or not.

Straight from the NCAA website (Hope you're ready for a long read):

Press release on on findings and penalties:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/k...002020102in.htm

Full text of the official report:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/k...002020101in.htm

[aumd03 2]

Since the report doesn't mention any names, can someone fill me in on who is who. I can figure a few out.

Ath. Rep A - Logan Young

Head Coach 1 - Lynn Lang

Prospect 1 - ???

Prospect 2 - Albert Means

Asst Coach A - ???

Student Athlete 1 -???

Student Athlete 2 -???

Ath Rep D - ???

Who is prospect A that moved from Memphis to Stevenson?

Which Asst Coach is the one that was the intermediary between LY and Means?

Student athlete 1 that got a Jeep Cherokee from Ath Rep D and had it repossessed upon transfer?

[DKW 86 7,440]

Since the report doesn't mention any names, can someone fill me in on who is who. I can figure a few out.

Ath. Rep A - Logan Young

Head Coach 1 - Lynn Lang

Prospect 1 - ???

Prospect 2 - Albert Means

Asst Coach A - ??? probably Milton Kirk?, he was LL asst at Trezevant HS

Student Athlete 1 -???

Student Athlete 2 -???

Ath Rep D - ???

Who is prospect A that moved from Memphis to Stevenson?

Which Asst Coach is the one that was the intermediary between LY and Means? Ivy Williams, hince the 100s of phone calls.

Student athlete 1 that got a Jeep Cherokee from Ath Rep D and had it repossessed upon transfer?

http://www.tidesports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...SNCAA/209030020

UA releases response to NCAA charges

By Steve Reeves and Tommy Deas

TideSports.com

originally published 12.06.2001

The University of Alabama's response to NCAA allegations of wrongdoing in the football program includes a self-imposed reduction of 15 initial scholarships over the next three years and other recruiting restrictions.

UA's response, which totals more than 750 pages, was released this afternoon.

Alabama self-imposed a reduction of eight scholarships in the current recruiting class, which means, if the NCAA accepts UA's offer, the program can sign only 17 players next February instead of the normal limit of 25.

The NCAA notified Alabama of charges of violations in a Letter of Official Inquiry on Sept. 4. The original charges included 11 major violations and five secondary violations of NCAA legislation.

The NCAA subsequently vacated one major charge, of unethical conduct by former assistant coach Ivy Williams, as well as parts of another charge, during a pre-hearing conference in early November.

The remaining charges were argued before the NCAA Committee on Infractions Nov. 17 in Indianapolis.

The self-imposed penalties do not include a television ban, a ban on postseason play and no institutional financial penalty.

Alabama did self-impose a reduction in the number of assistant coaches allowed to recruit off-campus this season, as well as the total number of official visits by prospects to the UA campus. Alabama will allow about 35 such paid-for official visits rather than the NCAA maximum of 56.

Three UA boosters - Logan Young of Memphis, Wendell Smith of Chattanooga and Raymond Keller of Stevenson - have been disassociated from the program for five to seven years. Just for history's sake, none of the bans were lifetime.

Alabama's proposed penalties are based on allegations of violations that the school did not dispute, including several allegations made against the disassociated boosters and a charge that exotic dancers entertained UA recruits at a Tuscaloosa apartment complex.

Alabama did contest a number of charges, some on procedural grounds and others on disagreement about the evidence.

THE RESPONSE:

The following is a summary of the University of Alabama's response to the NCAA investigation into the Tide football program.

Allegation No. 1: The university agrees that in 1996 a recruit received $20,000 from boosters as an incentive to sign with the university. The university does not agree that the evidence is conclusive as to the source of the money. The university also maintains the violation occurred outside of the NCAA's four-year statute of limitations.

Allegation No. 2: The university agrees that a booster paid for meals for football recruit Kenny Smith's parents and told the parents that their son could have a "sponsor" if he played for Alabama.

Allegation No. 3: The university agrees that Memphis high school coaches Lynn Lang and Milton Kirk solicited money and things of value in exchange for influencing recruit Albert Means' decision on where to attend college. The university disputes whether Means and his family actually received money from a booster.

Allegation No. 4: The university agrees that booster Logan Young gave improper loans to former assistant football coach Ronnie Cottrell.

Allegation No. 5: The NCAA withdrew two parts of this allegation. The university agrees that recruit Michael Gaines was allowed to make free long-distance telephone calls. Michale Gaines passed an SAT on the the same day he was hundreds of miles away playing in a FloridaAll-Star Game.

Allegation No. 6: The university agrees that the allegation that free lodging was provided to a high school coach is "substantially correct."

Allegation No. 7: The university disagrees that former Tide player Travis Carroll was improperly provided with a leased vehicle. This is the kid that helped by the Gu from Stevenson Alabama, as best as I remember. Got a Jeep.

Allegation No. 8: The university agrees that allegations of a booster providing "$100 handshakes" to a former player "possibly occurred" but notes that the evidence is "contradictory."

Allegation No. 9: The university agrees that two boosters improperly contacted a football recruit.

Allegation No. 10: The university agrees that "stripper parties" for recruits were held at university apartments between 1997 and 1999. Yeah, liquor'em up and get em laid. Great recruiting tools.

Allegation No. 11: The NCAA withdrew this allegation involving unethical conduct by former coach Ivy Williams.

The following secondary (minor) violations were self-reported by the university:

Williams made excessive recruiting visits to Memphis high schools.

Harold James was allowed to play despite being academically ineligible.

Misuse of complimentary passes to a 1999 home game.

Cottrell helped a former player get out of paying a speeding ticket.