Rivals ranking: 19 to 15

[townhallsavoy 2]

I never said I'd take Harry Adams over Julio Jones, I was just saying that your example was a poor one, and it is. You were more or less implying that Adams should be a great college player but that Julio Jones will be a great NFL player. Harry Adams' ceiling isn't that much lower than Julio Jones', as of now he is further away from his ceiling and therefore less likely to reach it, which is why he is rated later, but it doesn't change the fact that his ceiling is of an NFL-caliber player.

I wasn't just implying that Adams should be a great college player and Jones an NFL player, I was stating it. It's my opinion. And at least my opinion is backed up by a small bit of statistics. 2002-2004's top two recruits according to rivals are playing in the NFL. In fact, all six of them were selected in the 1st round of the draft. If I can name six three star recruits that did not pan out to be NFL players then that means that there is more of a chance for Jones to be successful in the NFL than Adams.

Based on potential - sure. They're both gifted athletes. They both could blossom into the two best receivers of all time. According to your opinion of Harry Adams, he's got just as much potential as Julio Jones. I disagree. How about backing up your statements. That might work out for you.

[townhallsavoy 2]

If Alabama were in our position, they'd have higher "rankings" in recruiting. Why? Because they always get a nod for the size of their fanbase. They have inflated recruiting rankings every year. Want proof? Alabama's recruiting classes were rated higher than Auburn's two of the last five years (coming into this season), and the two schools were 10 and 11 one year. So over the five years that made up all the players on the field this season, our rankings were basically identical. Now, are there 11 players on that team you'd take over the guy playing their spot at Auburn? Are there even 5?

That's not proof for your premise, "they have inflated recruiting rankings every year." That could also be proof for poor coaching, poor discipline, poor academics, etc. I believe in coaching up players, which is why I don't believe that Nick Saban is by any means responsible for Miles's success.

We don't have magical pixie dust. We have magical coaches that actually know what they're looking for. If we offer a guy in August, I'm ecstatic when he commits. I could care less if he's got 5 stars or 2. Why? Because our coaching staff is right WAAAAAY more often than any recruiting service, and I would argue substantially more often than other SEC coaching staffs. We have magical pixie dust recruiters.

"There's no reason to believe that Auburn has some kind of magical aurora that attracts better recruits than everybody else no matter what. We recruit well because we have a good program."

I guess I should have defined good program. Good program = good coaches, good management, good academics.

How do I know we have magical pixie dust recruiters? Take 2004 for example. That class was supposedly "down." It had an average "star ranking" from rivals of 2.6. That's not so good. But you know who was in that class? 2 star recruits – Tyronne Green (future NFLer), Jason Bosley (best lineman on the team this year), Chris Evans (leading tackler), and Merrill Johnson. That class also included Pat Sims (future 1st or 2nd rounder), Brad Lester, Tristan Davis, and David Irons. Our "bad years" turn out that many really, really good players. (Bama finished well ahead of us in the team rankings that year)

Coaching? Does that matter at all? Yeah, we got some great hidden talent. I think it took the proper coaching to bring out that talent.

So you'll have to pardon me if I don't think Bama would be doing better. They might get more attention because they sell more magazines. They're the program that can sell 92K tickets to a spring game; we aren't. That's the main reason for their "success" in recruiting over us. I have a feeling we're going to look back on this class and say stuff like, "man, player X is really good. Can't believe he was so poorly rated." or "I wouldn't trade player X at Auburn for player Y at Bama."

And with this last paragraph, if that's not the most blatant cry of conspiracy I've ever read, I don't know what is. They have mythical success in recruiting because of how many tickets they sell to their spring game? Magazine sales? Most of the guys committed to them this year were ranked highly and recruited highly before they made the decision to go to Bama. I'd be curious to know how many of their commitments were recruited by us as well. Look, I'm not trying to stick up for Bama, but the fact is that they are doing incredibly well in recruiting this year. It will drop off when the hype wears off.

I really have no idea how you think Bama wouldn't be recruiting better than us if they had the stable program right now and we didn't.

[metafour 4,969]

I never said I'd take Harry Adams over Julio Jones, I was just saying that your example was a poor one, and it is. You were more or less implying that Adams should be a great college player but that Julio Jones will be a great NFL player. Harry Adams' ceiling isn't that much lower than Julio Jones', as of now he is further away from his ceiling and therefore less likely to reach it, which is why he is rated later, but it doesn't change the fact that his ceiling is of an NFL-caliber player.

According to your opinion of Harry Adams, he's got just as much potential as Julio Jones. I disagree. How about backing up your statements. That might work out for you.

I clearly said he had slightly less potential. Back it up? OK. Harry Adams at age 16-17 ran faster 100m times than the majority of NFL receivers could ever dream of running. He is so physically gifted that even with very little football experience and next to no production he was courted by both Florida (last year's MNC winner) and LSU (playing for the MNC this year)...both teams which have had very little trouble signing stud receivers. And by "courted" I dont mean 'he got a few letters from LSU and UF.' Both schools have tried to get him to de-commit several times in the past few months. He ran the fastest 100m time in the country last year, had he kept up with track he would have likely maintained those numbers this year. Despite focusing on football he could go to any school of his choosing on a track scholarship if he really wanted to.

On pure athletic ability he is Ted Ginn-esque, and Ted Ginn was a Top 15 pick this past year despite the fact that he was ridiculously raw as a receiver.

I dont think you understand what type of athlete Harry Adams is. Julio Jones is a freakish athlete given his size, but Harry Adams is one of those guys who has the ability to be the fastest player in the country. Like I clearly said earlier, Julio Jones is more likely to reach his potential which is indicated in his ranking, but you'd have to be stupid to argue that a freak athlete like Adams doesn't have a comparable ceiling. Despite whatever ranking he may have he is one of the biggest gets in this class, and I cant wait to see what type of damage he will be able to do in the spread offense.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Town, I'm not saying that we would be out-recruiting Bama if they were stable and we were not. What I'm saying is: we ARE out-recruiting Bama right now. You are saying, "they'd be kicking us while we were down," which implies that we are failing to out-recruit them despite being the more stable program.

I'm throwing the BS flag. I don't care if it's a conspiracy or just bad talent evaluation. I really don't care what has caused the inflated numbers for Bama's recruiting over the last five years (note: I think it's a little bit of both of those things), but I DO know that Bama's recruiting numbers have been inflated.

Point blank, if you asked me who I'd rather have between Darvin Adams (3 star) and Destin Hood (4 star), my answer is Adams 100% of the time. Why? Well first I'll disclose that I have never seen either guy play. I couldn't pick either guy out of a lineup. What I do know is that Tubby offered Adams in August. That's all I need to know. Hood committed to Bama around the same time, but Adams was a guy that our staff (much much much better talent/character evaluators than rivals or scout) wanted badly enough to offer and press for a commitment before his senior year. So that's the guy I want.

That's the point I'm trying to make. The stars don't matter. We have a great staff, program, coach, magic aura, whatever you want to call it, and that allows us to out-recruit Bama even when the numbers say otherwise. We have out-recruited Bama the last five years (even though rivals says it happened only twice), and if not for the sheer size of their class, I'd take Auburn's guys over their guys this year as well.

[TexasTiger 12,965]

Even if the star system was wildy accurate, which it isn't, rankings often reflect very small differences in talent, both at the individual and team level. The addition or loss of a highly rated player or two can make a huge difference in team rankings. A player being out of position can make a huge difference, too. Coaches look at these guys up close in camp. They know what they can do and, perhaps more importantly, they are able to rate intangibles. The sky is not falling, folks. Not by a long shot.

Per Scout

Kenny Irons-- *3

Will Herring-- *3

Ben Grubbs-- *1

Courtney Taylor-- *1

Troy Reddick-- *1

Quentin Groves--*3

Marques Gunn-- *2

Leon Hart-- *5

Brad Lester-- *3

Pat Sims--*3

Tyrone Green-- *2

Jason Bosley--*2

Antonio Coleman-- *3

Robert Dunn-- *1

Lee Tilley-- *4

Craig Stevens-- *3

Ryan Shoemaker-- *2

Zach Clayton --*2

Jermain Johnson-- *2 (High School) Now we are all excited he's the #1Prep OL.

[otterinbham 0]

Even if the star system was wildy accurate, which it isn't, rankings often reflect very small differences in talent, both at the individual and team level. The addition or loss of a highly rated player or two can make a huge difference in team rankings. A player being out of position can make a huge difference, too. Coaches look at these guys up close in camp. They know what they can do and, perhaps more importantly, they are able to rate intangibles. The sky is not falling, folks. Not by a long shot.

Per Scout

Kenny Irons-- *3

Will Herring-- *3

Ben Grubbs-- *1

Courtney Taylor-- *1

Troy Reddick-- *1

Quentin Groves--*3

Marques Gunn-- *2

Leon Hart-- *5

Brad Lester-- *3

Pat Sims--*3

Tyrone Green-- *2

Jason Bosley--*2

Antonio Coleman-- *3

Robert Dunn-- *1

Lee Tilley-- *4

Craig Stevens-- *3

Ryan Shoemaker-- *2

Zach Clayton --*2

Jermain Johnson-- *2 (High School) Now we are all excited he's the #1Prep OL.

Yep. I gotta agree. The obsession with ratings is just dumb. It's subjective, and what is it really based on?

[townhallsavoy 2]

I never said I'd take Harry Adams over Julio Jones, I was just saying that your example was a poor one, and it is. You were more or less implying that Adams should be a great college player but that Julio Jones will be a great NFL player. Harry Adams' ceiling isn't that much lower than Julio Jones', as of now he is further away from his ceiling and therefore less likely to reach it, which is why he is rated later, but it doesn't change the fact that his ceiling is of an NFL-caliber player.

According to your opinion of Harry Adams, he's got just as much potential as Julio Jones. I disagree. How about backing up your statements. That might work out for you.

I clearly said he had slightly less potential. Back it up? OK. Harry Adams at age 16-17 ran faster 100m times than the majority of NFL receivers could ever dream of running. He is so physically gifted that even with very little football experience and next to no production he was courted by both Florida (last year's MNC winner) and LSU (playing for the MNC this year)...both teams which have had very little trouble signing stud receivers. And by "courted" I dont mean 'he got a few letters from LSU and UF.' Both schools have tried to get him to de-commit several times in the past few months. He ran the fastest 100m time in the country last year, had he kept up with track he would have likely maintained those numbers this year. Despite focusing on football he could go to any school of his choosing on a track scholarship if he really wanted to.

On pure athletic ability he is Ted Ginn-esque, and Ted Ginn was a Top 15 pick this past year despite the fact that he was ridiculously raw as a receiver.

I dont think you understand what type of athlete Harry Adams is. Julio Jones is a freakish athlete given his size, but Harry Adams is one of those guys who has the ability to be the fastest player in the country. Like I clearly said earlier, Julio Jones is more likely to reach his potential which is indicated in his ranking, but you'd have to be stupid to argue that a freak athlete like Adams doesn't have a comparable ceiling. Despite whatever ranking he may have he is one of the biggest gets in this class, and I cant wait to see what type of damage he will be able to do in the spread offense.

"I think Harry Adams will be a helluva player at Auburn. However, I think Julio Jones will be a helluva player in the NFL. Based on talent alone, which would you like to have?"

THAT was my comment that you said was a terrible comparison. How is it any different than anything you've said? You've tried to attack my statements with nothing more than an agreement. I never said Harry Adams won't have the opportunity to reach his NFL ceiling or whatever the hell you call it. I THINK. Do we need to have a lesson on what "think" means? Do you perceive me to be some prophet that has just predicted the future of Harry Adams and Julio Jones? I really can't figure out what your problem is.

Harry Adams has a tremendous amount of talent - sure. James Swinton is the fastest receiver we've got. How well has he turned out? Julio Jones is a tremendously gifted athlete. I have no reason to believe he won't excel in the NFL based on his potential and his recruiting rankings. Harry Adams could very well turn out to be a great player for Auburn, but according to potential, it'd be better to have Julio Jones on our squad. That's what my original comment was about. Some people are worried about our recruiting because we're pulling in lower rated prospects. It doesn't matter about opinions on rankings/ratings/Rivals/Scout/etc. Fans have expressed concern. We're filling holes where we need them, and according to the so-called experts, we aren't getting the top notch players. That's frightening people. That's all I was saying.

[townhallsavoy 2]

Town, I'm not saying that we would be out-recruiting Bama if they were stable and we were not. What I'm saying is: we ARE out-recruiting Bama right now. You are saying, "they'd be kicking us while we were down," which implies that we are failing to out-recruit them despite being the more stable program.

I'm throwing the BS flag. I don't care if it's a conspiracy or just bad talent evaluation. I really don't care what has caused the inflated numbers for Bama's recruiting over the last five years (note: I think it's a little bit of both of those things), but I DO know that Bama's recruiting numbers have been inflated.

Point blank, if you asked me who I'd rather have between Darvin Adams (3 star) and Destin Hood (4 star), my answer is Adams 100% of the time. Why? Well first I'll disclose that I have never seen either guy play. I couldn't pick either guy out of a lineup. What I do know is that Tubby offered Adams in August. That's all I need to know. Hood committed to Bama around the same time, but Adams was a guy that our staff (much much much better talent/character evaluators than rivals or scout) wanted badly enough to offer and press for a commitment before his senior year. So that's the guy I want.

That's the point I'm trying to make. The stars don't matter. We have a great staff, program, coach, magic aura, whatever you want to call it, and that allows us to out-recruit Bama even when the numbers say otherwise. We have out-recruited Bama the last five years (even though rivals says it happened only twice), and if not for the sheer size of their class, I'd take Auburn's guys over their guys this year as well.

I see your point, and for the most part I do agree. I don't believe that the rankings are 100% accurate because they can't rate how a high school athlete is going to adjust to the college game. However, I think it is safe to say that these players with more stars are more physically gifted and productive while in high school. Therefore, Bama might be getting better high school players to sign with them. I believe that Tuberville does a better job with what he gets.

And as for the Darvin Adams/Destin Hood comparison, you know we offered a scholarship to Destin Hood as well? So, if they both committed to us on the same day at the same time but only one could be allowed to sign, you'd pick Adams? I commend your trust in Coach Tuberville, but sometimes better players pick Bama over us. It just happens. Where my confidence lies is with the coaching staff's ability to develop these players. BUT, if the four star kid wants to come to my team, I take him over the three star kid any day. (Unless obvious discipline problems are there).

[mcgufcm 4,107]

You had me till the end. I'd rather have gotten Sen'Derrick Marks, two-star that no one wanted, over any other tackle that committed to Auburn or Alabama that year. He came to Auburn and dominated almost immediately. We've done a fine job of coaching him up, but he was just flat out better than more highly rated guys: Brian West, Rudy Odom, and Lorenzo Washington (the highest rated of all the four).

Sometimes, our coaches just know what they are looking for... and that sometimes is a lot more frequent an occurrence here than it is elsewhere. THAT is why I completely and fully trust Tubs. If we've only got one scholly to spend, he's gonna pull the right guy out of a two man hat 8 times out of 10.

[AUman43 5]

This article by Phillip Marshall says a lot:

"After the bowl game, we'll do our best here to keep readers informed about recruiting. What you won't see here is any reference to star ratings (5-star, 4-star, etc.). Why? I think they are bogus, and that's nothing new. I've felt that way for years, even when I covered recruiting for The Huntsville Times. Thankfully, I have been relieved of that duty. It doesn't take an expert to watch Tim Tebow play in high school and know he will probably be a great player in college, but check out any NFL game. You'll see a lot of players who, not only weren't 5-star recruits, but weren't even offered scholarships by major schools. Recruiting is the most important aspect of college football. Recruiting rankings are for selling magazines and web site subscriptions. ...

As best I can tell, Auburn coaches feel very good about their recruiting class. And, yes, they would and have told me if they felt otherwise. ..."

BTW, I think Scout is full of crap!

[aubiescottie 1]

Up to 14 now, although its probably short lived. Based on looking who's ahead of us and what they have committed, and who we are looking to sign, blah blah blah, we'll probably stay solidly where we are to possibly increasing to around 11 or 12.

In all fairness, Bama is up to 2.

[WarTim 3,456]

In all fairness...uat can tell kids "You can start for us from day one". Threy NEED a lot more "help" and SOME kids really want to start as freshman. A bad situation for all concerned as a general rule.

[jetermary 6]

Up to 14 now, although its probably short lived. Based on looking who's ahead of us and what they have committed, and who we are looking to sign, blah blah blah, we'll probably stay solidly where we are to possibly increasing to around 11 or 12.

In all fairness, Bama is up to 2.

In 2004 Florida was ranked #7, #2 in 2006, and #1 last year. They beat us in recruiting each year, yet, we have beaten them on the field the last two years. Florida State is another good example. Recruiting is very important, but it is not an exact science used by these so called experts. #1 recruiting class doesn't mean you will play for the NC. More importantly, it's what you do with these players. You can have walk-ons that play better than some of these top recruits. I trust TT to get the best players he can to fill areas of need.

[aubiescottie 1]

Up to 14 now, although its probably short lived. Based on looking who's ahead of us and what they have committed, and who we are looking to sign, blah blah blah, we'll probably stay solidly where we are to possibly increasing to around 11 or 12.

In all fairness, Bama is up to 2.

In 2004 Florida was ranked #7, #2 in 2006, and #1 last year. They beat us in recruiting each year, yet, we have beaten them on the field the last two years. Florida State is another good example. Recruiting is very important, but it is not an exact science used by these so called experts. #1 recruiting class doesn't mean you will play for the NC. More importantly, it's what you do with these players. You can have walk-ons that play better than some of these top recruits. I trust TT to get the best players he can to fill areas of need.

Agree 100%. You don't want to be ranked #60, but whether you are ranked #6 or #12, doesn't matter in the end. It is fun to look at and discuss though.

[Legionfield 0]

In all fairness...uat can tell kids "You can start for us from day one". Threy NEED a lot more "help" and SOME kids really want to start as freshman. A bad situation for all concerned as a general rule.

spin city...............All I hear is how great the Auburn coaches are at evaluating talent. You had an advantage recruiting against Shula. Not anymore. You think Tubby is a better talent evaluator than Nick Saban???? That is laughable. Look at LSU. There is talent all over the field for them. All recruited by Nick Saban. You say, "Recruiting doesn't matter." That is laughable. I would take being in the top 10 in recruiting every year versus not, all day long. Just ask Southern Cal and LSU. They are at or near the top every year. Talent will win ballgames.

[TexasTiger 12,965]

In all fairness...uat can tell kids "You can start for us from day one". Threy NEED a lot more "help" and SOME kids really want to start as freshman. A bad situation for all concerned as a general rule.

spin city...............All I hear is how great the Auburn coaches are at evaluating talent. You had an advantage recruiting against Shula. Not anymore. You think Tubby is a better talent evaluator than Nick Saban???? That is laughable. Look at LSU. There is talent all over the field for them. All recruited by Nick Saban. You say, "Recruiting doesn't matter." That is laughable. I would take being in the top 10 in recruiting every year versus not, all day long. Just ask Southern Cal and LSU. They are at or near the top every year. Talent will win ballgames.

Keep hoping for the future. The present is too painful for you to live in. It is what it is.

[Legionfield 0]

In all fairness...uat can tell kids "You can start for us from day one". Threy NEED a lot more "help" and SOME kids really want to start as freshman. A bad situation for all concerned as a general rule.

spin city...............All I hear is how great the Auburn coaches are at evaluating talent. You had an advantage recruiting against Shula. Not anymore. You think Tubby is a better talent evaluator than Nick Saban???? That is laughable. Look at LSU. There is talent all over the field for them. All recruited by Nick Saban. You say, "Recruiting doesn't matter." That is laughable. I would take being in the top 10 in recruiting every year versus not, all day long. Just ask Southern Cal and LSU. They are at or near the top every year. Talent will win ballgames.

Keep hoping for the future. The present is too painful for you to live in. It is what it is.

No, the present is just fine. Presently, we are at #2 on Rivals and #4 on Scout. I will take that any day....

[TexasTiger 12,965]

In all fairness...uat can tell kids "You can start for us from day one". Threy NEED a lot more "help" and SOME kids really want to start as freshman. A bad situation for all concerned as a general rule.

spin city...............All I hear is how great the Auburn coaches are at evaluating talent. You had an advantage recruiting against Shula. Not anymore. You think Tubby is a better talent evaluator than Nick Saban???? That is laughable. Look at LSU. There is talent all over the field for them. All recruited by Nick Saban. You say, "Recruiting doesn't matter." That is laughable. I would take being in the top 10 in recruiting every year versus not, all day long. Just ask Southern Cal and LSU. They are at or near the top every year. Talent will win ballgames.

Keep hoping for the future. The present is too painful for you to live in. It is what it is.

No, the present is just fine. Presently, we are at #2 on Rivals and #4 on Scout. I will take that any day....

Good for you. In 2004 FSU was 4th on Scout and Miami was 3rd. Maybe in 4 years Bama can be where they are this year.

[WarTim 3,456]

It's all part of the sabear "process"...It is what it is....AU-ight?

[FootballFanatic 4]

To be honest, Alabamas 2nd ranking is only temporary anyway. Bama has 26 commits already while some of the recruiting powerhouses are still sitting with 14-15 recruits. When USC, Florida, Ohio State, and Auburn start filling more spots in the rankings will start to mix it up more.

Basically what I am saying is rankings don't mean crap till signing day. Then they just are a close estimate of recruited talent. Auburn has 6-8 more recruits to fill in and is sitting at 14 with 8 less recruits than alabama. I think we are doing just fine and I think we will hit the top 10 when all is said and done.

I will say Saban has done a very good job recruiting. I think the SEC west is going to be the worst division to play in for the next 8 years. Too much coaching talent, too much recruiting talent, too much player talent. I have a feeling we have secured at least 1-2 losses in our division every year for all the teams in the SEC West.

[weglchamp 0]

Saban did such a good job evaluating talent, that the Dolphins are 14-1! Oh wait my dyslexia kicked in they are 1-14.

[WarTim 3,456]

Saban did such a good job evaluating talent, that the Dolphins are 14-1! Oh wait my dyslexia kicked in they are 1-14.

Just not enough time for the "process".............

[Legionfield 0]

Saban did such a good job evaluating talent, that the Dolphins are 14-1! Oh wait my dyslexia kicked in they are 1-14.

Look at LSU............

[Legionfield 0]

To be honest, Alabamas 2nd ranking is only temporary anyway. Bama has 26 commits already while some of the recruiting powerhouses are still sitting with 14-15 recruits. When USC, Florida, Ohio State, and Auburn start filling more spots in the rankings will start to mix it up more.

Basically what I am saying is rankings don't mean crap till signing day. Then they just are a close estimate of recruited talent. Auburn has 6-8 more recruits to fill in and is sitting at 14 with 8 less recruits than alabama. I think we are doing just fine and I think we will hit the top 10 when all is said and done.

I will say Saban has done a very good job recruiting. I think the SEC west is going to be the worst division to play in for the next 8 years. Too much coaching talent, too much recruiting talent, too much player talent. I have a feeling we have secured at least 1-2 losses in our division every year for all the teams in the SEC West.

Very good points.............

[runswithscissors 33]

Saban did such a good job evaluating talent, that the Dolphins are 14-1! Oh wait my dyslexia kicked in they are 1-14.

out of the entire Dolphins roster, 22 of CNS' players are on this season's roster. 3 of those 22 start on offense and 4 start on defense. so apparently Cameron or the front office should have thought twice about getting rid of some of CNS' talent. even though they were 6-10 last year, i will take that over 1-14 any day. anyways, don't let little things like facts get in the way of what you say.