We can't get out of our own way sometimes

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Occupants of FEMA supplied trailers in hurricane ravaged areas being moved because of excessive formaldehyde levels. Up to 40 times the normal exposure:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23168160/

[Tigermike 3,053]

Occupants of FEMA supplied trailers in hurricane ravaged areas being moved because of excessive formaldehyde levels. Up to 40 times the normal exposure:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23168160/

I thought all mobile homes were like that.

[CCTAU 3,346]

If anyone has ever gone looking at campers, you get this same feeling from being in one fro just a short time. The difference is that if you live in one, you might want to open it up and let it air out. The smell is mostly from the new carpet. But to move them out is idiotic. Just tell them to let a little air in. Open some windows. Pretend you are camping. Get a job. Provide your own housing. But quit bitching. And if you sue, you should be deported to some country that gives you nothing but a hut.

[BZ770 2]

I worked for Bechtel after the storm doing inspections on these trailers. We did all the hookups and maintenance, and giving the keys to the families. I can tell you that these things would make your eyes burn just going into them for a few minutes. I actually saw EPA people putting sampling kits in these trailers long before you heard of these stories that have been coming out the last couple of years. That lawsuit will probably be awarded to these people, but on the other hand. What Fema did for them was give them shelter when they had nothing, it's a catch 22 either way.

[Auburn85 432]

force those evil predatory lenders to take all of those foreclosed houses and give them to the people who are still living in FEMA trailers.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

From what I understand, the levels of formaldehyde were 5 to 40 times higher than what you normally find in a trailer even.

[CCTAU 3,346]

From what I understand, the levels of formaldehyde were 5 to 40 times higher than what you normally find in a trailer even.

Any time you have one of those things new and sealed up, the chemicals have nowhere to go. I don't hear the people that buy these things for personal use crying about this. They have enough sense to air them out. They are built at the same factories using the same stuff as the ones sold to the public. So if you go to a a sales lot and go inside a new trailer, your eyes will burn. It's just another case of folks not having enough sense to help themselves and others always looking for that next victim.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

From what I understand, the levels of formaldehyde were 5 to 40 times higher than what you normally find in a trailer even.

Any time you have one of those things new and sealed up, the chemicals have nowhere to go. I don't hear the people that buy these things for personal use crying about this. They have enough sense to air them out. They are built at the same factories using the same stuff as the ones sold to the public. So if you go to a a sales lot and go inside a new trailer, your eyes will burn. It's just another case of folks not having enough sense to help themselves and others always looking for that next victim.

As I said, in the reports I've seen since, the indication was that for some reason, these were worse on the formaldehyde levels than normal ones you buy for personal use. Maybe that's why you don't hear those folks "crying" about it.

But just assuming they are exactly the same as any normal trailer or mobile home, could be that no one told them to air it out? Most of these folks lived in rather modest regular homes in New Orleans and didn't own a mobile home or RV/trailer before. Shouldn't FEMA have instructed people to air the things out for several hours? I'd bet when you buy one from a commercial lot the salesman will be sure to tell you that.

Why is your default position, before knowing any facts whatsoever, to be critical and judgmental of people when they point something like this out?

[CCTAU 3,346]

From what I understand, the levels of formaldehyde were 5 to 40 times higher than what you normally find in a trailer even.

Any time you have one of those things new and sealed up, the chemicals have nowhere to go. I don't hear the people that buy these things for personal use crying about this. They have enough sense to air them out. They are built at the same factories using the same stuff as the ones sold to the public. So if you go to a a sales lot and go inside a new trailer, your eyes will burn. It's just another case of folks not having enough sense to help themselves and others always looking for that next victim.

As I said, in the reports I've seen since, the indication was that for some reason, these were worse on the formaldehyde levels than normal ones you buy for personal use. Maybe that's why you don't hear those folks "crying" about it.

But just assuming they are exactly the same as any normal trailer or mobile home, could be that no one told them to air it out? Most of these folks lived in rather modest regular homes in New Orleans and didn't own a mobile home or RV/trailer before. Shouldn't FEMA have instructed people to air the things out for several hours? I'd bet when you buy one from a commercial lot the salesman will be sure to tell you that.

Why is your default position, before knowing any facts whatsoever, to be critical and judgmental of people when they point something like this out?

Because NO salesman told me to air mine out. I figure if something's new and it has a new smell that burns my eyes, then I open the windows and let that newness wear off. How come you are always wanting to believe that people getting a handout from the government are victims. Oh poor Katrina victims. Big bad gubment done done'em in again.

I just don't feel like the MAN owes anybody anything. I side with common sense, you always side with the victim. You sure you aren't dimocrat? Its people like you that always want to get in other's lives. There is nothing wrong with the trailers FEMA sent. It's another ploy to A. Discredit the gubment. Or B. Get more FREE money out of the gubment.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

It's not that I think people getting gov't handouts are victims. One guy I just saw on the news mentioned exactly what you said and that he and his wife couldn't live in it and they aired it out for several days but that it was still strong.

And some varied in strength. Only the worst ones burned people's eyes. Others that were around 5 times more than they should have been just smelled but people opened a window and tried to put up with it the best they could, but it's not like they had a ton of other options to live in while it aired out.

I wouldn't have known about airing it out. I would have for the smell and certainly if my eyes burned, but I wouldn't have realized it was formaldehyde unless it was just overpowering. And one of my girls likely would have had an asthma-type attack. And we don't even know what else is in there. All they tested for was formaldehyde fumes.

My thing is, this is just another way we failed these folks on some level. If it wasn't the bumbling efforts of Nagin and whatshername the Governor of LA, it was the totally inept way FEMA handled the whole situation down there. Then we provide these trailors, but they were slapped together apparently using way too much of the chemicals so that people either experienced breathing problems from lower (yet still to high) levels or they had to completely move out of the things when they already had no where to go. Hell, FEMA even told their workers not to expose themselves to them. If this was something that could be solved as easily as "just open it up and air it out," then that's what they'd tell people to do. But they aren't. They are getting people out of them and telling their workers not to go in without proper equipment. Something's rotten in Denmark.

And finally, I've asked you a pointed question, but I didn't disrespect you in doing so. Talk to me like an adult that can discuss issues with other adults and lose all the "gubment" and "are you a dimocrat" goofiness. I don't appreciate it. If that's not something you're willing to do, then move along and I'll talk with those who will.

[Tiger Al 0]

And finally, I've asked you a pointed question, but I didn't disrespect you in doing so. Talk to me like an adult that can discuss issues with other adults and lose all the "gubment" and "are you a dimocrat" goofiness. I don't appreciate it. If that's not something you're willing to do, then move along and I'll talk with those who will.

Titan, you don't understand. In CCTAU's world there is only one class of true, legitimate victims...White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Males. And, whatever other categories he and his happen to fall into.

[CCTAU 3,346]

And finally, I've asked you a pointed question, but I didn't disrespect you in doing so. Talk to me like an adult that can discuss issues with other adults and lose all the "gubment" and "are you a dimocrat" goofiness. I don't appreciate it. If that's not something you're willing to do, then move along and I'll talk with those who will.

Titan, you don't understand. In CCTAU's world there is only one class of true, legitimate victims...White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Males. And, whatever other categories he and his happen to fall into.

You know, I was gonna let it go till some a**hole like you decided to chime in. Doesn't have anything to do with race. Apparently you think all victims of Katrina are black. That makes you, more so than me, a race-baiter.

I was speaking in terms of what I know and what you don't have a clue about. Do you own a travel trailer? Have you walked through hundreds of FEMA trailers? Have you even been in a FEMA tralier?

Probably not. You just throw that damn 55 gallon drum in the back of your old Pontiac and pull it out to hide in when you don't want to hear the truth. And guess what, most of the folks I know do not consider themselves victims of the GUBMENT. They are the ones paying taxes so that the GUBMENT can give away freebies to folks for 2 years just so they can bitch about it and sue later. I'm sure these people are your peers and will vote DIMOCRAT. That's fine. I'm just tired of hearing how folks like you give s*** about them but DO NOTHING TO HELP, except blame the GUBMENT. Maybe when Achmed Obama wins, we can all give to the charity of his choice. I'm sure it will include many VICTIMS of the GUBMENT along with your peers. Now kiss my White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male foot.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

CCTAU, if you want to harp on this tenuous Muslim connection Obama has, fine. But stop associating the man's name with a mass murderer. It's uncalled for and beneath any decent Christian person.

[CCTAU 3,346]

CCTAU, if you want to harp on this tenuous Muslim connection Obama has, fine. But stop associating the man's name with a mass murderer. It's uncalled for and beneath any decent Christian person.

Sorry. I did pledge to switch to Achmed Obama didn't I? I changed it.

Good thing he has you around to protect his muslim reputation.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

As I said, I don't care if you want to beat that shoestring of a Muslim connection to a pulp. I just don't think anyone deserves to be linked with such scum.

[RunInRed 16,487]

CCTAU, if you want to harp on this tenuous Muslim connection Obama has, fine. But stop associating the man's name with a mass murderer. It's uncalled for and beneath any decent Christian person.

Sorry. I did pledge to switch to Achmed Obama didn't I? I changed it.

Good thing he has you around to protect his muslim reputation.

You are going to be one depressed guy come November. Maybe you should let it go.

[Tiger Al 0]

And finally, I've asked you a pointed question, but I didn't disrespect you in doing so. Talk to me like an adult that can discuss issues with other adults and lose all the "gubment" and "are you a dimocrat" goofiness. I don't appreciate it. If that's not something you're willing to do, then move along and I'll talk with those who will.

Titan, you don't understand. In CCTAU's world there is only one class of true, legitimate victims...White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Males. And, whatever other categories he and his happen to fall into.

You know, I was gonna let it go till some a**hole like you decided to chime in. Doesn't have anything to do with race. Apparently you think all victims of Katrina are black. That makes you, more so than me, a race-baiter.

I was speaking in terms of what I know and what you don't have a clue about. Do you own a travel trailer? Have you walked through hundreds of FEMA trailers? Have you even been in a FEMA tralier?

Probably not. You just throw that damn 55 gallon drum in the back of your old Pontiac and pull it out to hide in when you don't want to hear the truth. And guess what, most of the folks I know do not consider themselves victims of the GUBMENT. They are the ones paying taxes so that the GUBMENT can give away freebies to folks for 2 years just so they can bitch about it and sue later. I'm sure these people are your peers and will vote DIMOCRAT. That's fine. I'm just tired of hearing how folks like you give s*** about them but DO NOTHING TO HELP, except blame the GUBMENT. Maybe when Achmed Obama wins, we can all give to the charity of his choice. I'm sure it will include many VICTIMS of the GUBMENT along with your peers. Now kiss my White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male foot.

Blah, blah, blah. I've been reading your rantings for years so I know how you are. Don't get offended when a spade is called a spade. Maybe in real life you're a peach and you only come here to vent your dark side, but, I doubt it. It comes across too easily.

I'm just tired of hearing how folks like you give s*** about them but DO NOTHING TO HELP, except blame the GUBMENT.

You're an arrogant, pompous, son-of-a-bitch. I put up with your nonsense most of the time but you've just crossed the line. For two months following Katrina and Rita I was up and down the Gulf Coast from Cameron, La. to Pascagoula, Ms. Yes, I've been inside, outside, on top of and underneath FEMA trailers. My question to you is, have you? I've been in the area south of Intracoastal City, La. doing nothing but pulling corpses out of the swamps in between treating a soldier from Utah for a snakebite and others for heat exhaustion. What did you do for them? Besides spew venom like this? All the casinos overshadowed the every day loss. Also wasn't enough minority devastation to gain the media's interest.... There was plenty of "minority devastation" to see...at least for those of us who were there doing nothing.

Did you at least observe a moment of silence at Jordan-Hare to show your concern? If so, thanks. It meant a lot to the manager of the Singing River Mall in Ocean Springs because she and her husband lost two homes, yet, found it in their Demoncrat hearts to make sure that me and my fellow gubment employees had some nice food to eat in the evenings instead of MRE's. Don't worry, we weren't making nearly the money we would've made if we'd just stayed home, but, we donated to the cause anyway. She also fed the drivers of the FEMA trucks who sat in the parking lot with their loads for many, many days. Thanks, Brownie! You did a heckuva job!

Then, there were the people of Cameron. We didn't do much for them but give them the MRE's we had already grown sick of. Funny thing, though. When your entire town is literally blown away and you have nothing, those brown packs begin to look pretty good. Who did you feed?

When I was doing nothing with the MP's and the thousands of others in the CajunDome, what were you doing for them? You claim that all I do is nothing but blame the gubment. Since I was 18, I've gladly stood up and said, "I'll do something." What did you do? In November, the 128th Medical Co. said, "We 're being deployed, we need some help." Several of us in my unit stood up and said, "We'll do something." In August we'll be in Baghdad doing, I guess in your opinion, nothing. Again. What will you be doing?

You can play your silly little word games (dimocrat, osama obama, etc.) for all I care, but, don't ever question the sacrifices me and my family have made again. You haven't earned that privilege so STFU.

[CCTAU 3,346]

And finally, I've asked you a pointed question, but I didn't disrespect you in doing so. Talk to me like an adult that can discuss issues with other adults and lose all the "gubment" and "are you a dimocrat" goofiness. I don't appreciate it. If that's not something you're willing to do, then move along and I'll talk with those who will.

Titan, you don't understand. In CCTAU's world there is only one class of true, legitimate victims...White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Males. And, whatever other categories he and his happen to fall into.

You know, I was gonna let it go till some a**hole like you decided to chime in. Doesn't have anything to do with race. Apparently you think all victims of Katrina are black. That makes you, more so than me, a race-baiter.

I was speaking in terms of what I know and what you don't have a clue about. Do you own a travel trailer? Have you walked through hundreds of FEMA trailers? Have you even been in a FEMA tralier?

Probably not. You just throw that damn 55 gallon drum in the back of your old Pontiac and pull it out to hide in when you don't want to hear the truth. And guess what, most of the folks I know do not consider themselves victims of the GUBMENT. They are the ones paying taxes so that the GUBMENT can give away freebies to folks for 2 years just so they can bitch about it and sue later. I'm sure these people are your peers and will vote DIMOCRAT. That's fine. I'm just tired of hearing how folks like you give s*** about them but DO NOTHING TO HELP, except blame the GUBMENT. Maybe when Achmed Obama wins, we can all give to the charity of his choice. I'm sure it will include many VICTIMS of the GUBMENT along with your peers. Now kiss my White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male foot.

Blah, blah, blah. I've been reading your rantings for years so I know how you are. Don't get offended when a spade is called a spade. Maybe in real life you're a peach and you only come here to vent your dark side, but, I doubt it. It comes across too easily.

I'm just tired of hearing how folks like you give s*** about them but DO NOTHING TO HELP, except blame the GUBMENT.

You're an arrogant, pompous, son-of-a-bitch. I put up with your nonsense most of the time but you've just crossed the line. For two months following Katrina and Rita I was up and down the Gulf Coast from Cameron, La. to Pascagoula, Ms. Yes, I've been inside, outside, on top of and underneath FEMA trailers. My question to you is, have you? I've been in the area south of Intracoastal City, La. doing nothing but pulling corpses out of the swamps in between treating a soldier from Utah for a snakebite and others for heat exhaustion. What did you do for them? Besides spew venom like this? All the casinos overshadowed the every day loss. Also wasn't enough minority devastation to gain the media's interest.... There was plenty of "minority devastation" to see...at least for those of us who were there doing nothing.

Did you at least observe a moment of silence at Jordan-Hare to show your concern? If so, thanks. It meant a lot to the manager of the Singing River Mall in Ocean Springs because she and her husband lost two homes, yet, found it in their Demoncrat hearts to make sure that me and my fellow gubment employees had some nice food to eat in the evenings instead of MRE's. Don't worry, we weren't making nearly the money we would've made if we'd just stayed home, but, we donated to the cause anyway. She also fed the drivers of the FEMA trucks who sat in the parking lot with their loads for many, many days. Thanks, Brownie! You did a heckuva job!

Then, there were the people of Cameron. We didn't do much for them but give them the MRE's we had already grown sick of. Funny thing, though. When your entire town is literally blown away and you have nothing, those brown packs begin to look pretty good. Who did you feed?

When I was doing nothing with the MP's and the thousands of others in the CajunDome, what were you doing for them? You claim that all I do is nothing but blame the gubment. Since I was 18, I've gladly stood up and said, "I'll do something." What did you do? In November, the 128th Medical Co. said, "We 're being deployed, we need some help." Several of us in my unit stood up and said, "We'll do something." In August we'll be in Baghdad doing, I guess in your opinion, nothing. Again. What will you be doing?

You can play your silly little word games (dimocrat, osama obama, etc.) for all I care, but, don't ever question the sacrifices me and my family have made again. You haven't earned that privilege so STFU.

I'm not talking about your job. If you are part of the military, you signed up and are doing your job. Many folks do the same. I'm talking about what you do above and beyond that. There are those of us who DONATE our time to helping rebuild and to do what we can outside of our careers. It would be easier for me to claim, if my job asked that of me. Bless you for having to see and to be apart of it. But the rest of us do what we can on our own time and dime.

As for what I will be doing. I will be supporting my family along with my son who will be in Afghanistan. YOU CHOSE your career path. It has allowed you to help others, but is it any more or less than those of us who donate outside of our job. You act special for doing your job (and we are glad you do), but does that lessen our efforts. While you are doing your JOB, I will be doing mine plus helping out in the ways that I know how. On my own dime and time.

Hopefully your bitterness will soon subside. I doubt that achmed Obama or any of the dimocrats can help with that. Until then, keep safe.

[Tiger Al 0]

I'm not talking about your job. If you are part of the military, you signed up and are doing your job. Many folks do the same. I'm talking about what you do above and beyond that. There are those of us who DONATE our time to helping rebuild and to do what we can outside of our careers. It would be easier for me to claim, if my job asked that of me. Bless you for having to see and to be apart of it. But the rest of us do what we can on our own time and dime.

As for what I will be doing. I will be supporting my family along with my son who will be in Afghanistan. YOU CHOSE your career path. It has allowed you to help others, but is it any more or less than those of us who donate outside of our job. You act special for doing your job (and we are glad you do), but does that lessen our efforts. While you are doing your JOB, I will be doing mine plus helping out in the ways that I know how. On my own dime and time.

Hopefully your bitterness will soon subside. I doubt that achmed Obama or any of the dimocrats can help with that. Until then, keep safe.

I'm not bitter. I'm just not going to stand idly by and let your insults go unanswered. Contrary to what you think, my JOB, my CAREER, is as an MRI tech. I'm not on active duty. Many of the people in my unit, myself included, are in the medical profession and lose a lot of money to "do nothing" in places like La. and Ms. after disasters. We can easily say that we just can't make it when we get the call. Some do. Don't try to use the fact that I get paid some paltry stipend to justify insulting me and those I serve with by saying we "do nothing." My bottom line would be much healthier if I just boxed up some shirts and got a receipt for them.

[DKW 86 7,441]

Saw a documentarty on this a long time ago. THe formaldehyde was supposedly coming from the press board used in the cabinets back then.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Momentary hijack......

Didn't some democrats make the same disparaging remarks about the Guard during the last presidential election? As I recall, their disrespectful words about service in the Guard were defended by no less than 2 of our resident left wingers. Now, one of them choses to get himself in a hissy. Talk about a head scratcher.

I believe the point CCTAU is trying to make is we, the American taxpayer, have heard nothing but "more....more" from the folks in New Orleans since this hurricane hit going on 3 years ago now. Why are they still living in government trailers? Why haven't they been able to get some smidgen of their lives back after all this time? Frankly, I'm quite tired of hearing about them. Sympathy only lasts so long. Why aren't other folks that were affected by this storm sitting on their collective asses with their hands held out for taxpayer funded freebies like their New Orleans bretheren? Could it be that they have a little more pride in themselves and in their community to live like leeches?

Now, back to normal programming.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I can't locate the article at the moment, but I was reading on one of the news sites that they think when FEMA asked for all these trailers it was a pretty big order that they got together rather quickly. There's some talk that the manufacturers they chose ran out of the low-emissions building materials and may have used other materials to finish the order, resulting in much higher formaldehyde levels in some of them than what you'd find on a sales lot. If so, that's a really stupid move for them to do so and not warn anyone that those trailers needed to be more thoroughly aired out and perhaps given more ventilation.

[pensacola tiger 0]

To get back to the original argument, unless these trailers were manufactured differently from the ones used in Pensacola after Hurricane Ivan I would have to question the severity of the problem. I know several people who had to live in FEMA trailers after Ivan and I never heard them complain about anything. They were just glad to have a place to live since every available space was taken for months and the rates were out of sight. Of course I never heard anyone in Pensacola complain about any of the help we got from FEMA. From what I saw here the federal government did an excellent job, as did countless volunteer agencies and groups. I also haven't heard any complaints from those on the Mississippi Gulf Coast, which was pretty much destroyed by Katrina. In fact, come to think of it, I haven't heard much about the Mississippi Gulf Coast at all. But two years later, after more money has been thrown at New Orleans than we can even imagine, I'm still hearing about prolems there daily it seems. As I heard on the radio the other day, I'm not saying, I'm just saying.....

[pensacola tiger 0]

If that's the case ThtanTiger, then it's not FEMA's fault, it's the fault of the manufactuers. And it seems FEMA is doing what they think needs to be done to get the people out.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

If that's the case ThtanTiger, then it's not FEMA's fault, it's the fault of the manufactuers. And it seems FEMA is doing what they think needs to be done to get the people out.

Indeed, if this is the case...

Sorry, but FEMA was the one in charge of getting the trailers made for this purpose. They share responsibility with the manufacturer and should have made sure that the manufacturers could fulfill the order using the proper materials. You can't just absolve them of any responsibility. I used to work in marketing and frequently had promotional items made for our products. If I have them made and when they come in I don't check them for accuracy to the requirements...at least taking a good sample depending on how many there are...and I show up to the event with something that isn't correct or is misprinted or whatever, my boss holds me responsible, not the people who made it. Of course they shoulder some responsibility and should be made to compensate us in some way. But the buck stops with me. If I didn't leave enough time to get it corrected and our promotion suffers, I'm in hot water even if I did my part on the front end right.

FEMA should have verified with each of the manufacturers that they would build them properly and use the proper materials. And they should have at least done samples on the trailers or each batch of them they received to make sure they were safe to live in. That's FEMA's part of the deal.