McCain's Spiritual Guide, Campaign Ally

[AURaptor 1,126]

As we learn more about the empty suit, we see exactly what it is filled with. And it makes most folks WHO THINK cringe.

Not sure that you're the barometer for "most folks."

Not sure that you're the barometer for "most folks who think."

I'd say he is.

[RunInRed 16,488]

As we learn more about the empty suit, we see exactly what it is filled with. And it makes most folks WHO THINK cringe.

Not sure that you're the barometer for "most folks."

Not sure that you're the barometer for "most folks who think."

I'd say he is.

Sad.

[tiger88 934]

I think it's safe to say that most folks cringed when they saw and heard the footage of obama'a pastor ranting and raving.

It is a weak connection here with the mccain stuff. His mistake was being a little too ready to accept some support he thought would help him.

How many people here really believe that obama knew absolutely nothing about his pastor's more radical beliefs as he is stating now? Said he only found out after the campaign started. I smell some bs.

[RunInRed 16,488]

I think it's safe to say that most folks cringed when they saw and heard the footage of obama'a pastor ranting and raving.

It is a weak connection here with the mccain stuff. His mistake was being a little too ready to accept some support he thought would help him.

How many people here really believe that obama knew absolutely nothing about his pastor's more radical beliefs as he is stating now? Said he only found out after the campaign started. I smell some bs.

I'm willing to take him at his word. Unless you want to enlighten us all with proof of this "bs"

[tiger88 934]

I think it's safe to say that most folks cringed when they saw and heard the footage of obama'a pastor ranting and raving.

It is a weak connection here with the mccain stuff. His mistake was being a little too ready to accept some support he thought would help him.

How many people here really believe that obama knew absolutely nothing about his pastor's more radical beliefs as he is stating now? Said he only found out after the campaign started. I smell some bs.

I'm willing to take him at his word. Unless you want to enlighten us all with proof of this "bs"

No. I'm not calling him a liar. Just saying it's hard to believe. Saw him interviewed last night on cnn and the guy asked him repeatedly, "you had no idea whatsoever that he held these beliefs", or words to that effect. Obama said he didn't have a clue. That is really hard to swallow.

Also read some stuff on this from around the time obama was ready to throw his hat in the ring. The reverend told him that when the election got going he understood that he obama would have to distance himself from the pastor.

I guyess my question was more of do you "really" believe the guy or just taking him at his word/giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Ranger12 46]

I don't think us bed wettin libbies on here are trying to deflect anything. Obama has said basically"I don't agree with everything my preacher says"Just like McCain I hope doesn't agree with everything 2 of his more prominent Christain supporters say.

Good grief, how can it be explained any other way that "supporters" that they guy really does not know that well and somebody being your pastor of 20 years is not the same thing. Like I said, if we are going to hold the candidates to what their supporters say, then we can load up this board with all sorts of crap from both sides.

I am like tiger88, I have a hard time believing that Obama had no idea his pastor held those beliefs. I am not saying Obama believes as his pastor believes, because I even disagree with my pastor on some things, but I am calling bs also on the "lack of knowledge".

[Tigermike 3,054]

I think it's safe to say that most folks cringed when they saw and heard the footage of obama'a pastor ranting and raving.

It is a weak connection here with the mccain stuff. His mistake was being a little too ready to accept some support he thought would help him.

How many people here really believe that obama knew absolutely nothing about his pastor's more radical beliefs as he is stating now? Said he only found out after the campaign started. I smell some bs.

I'm willing to take him at his word. Unless you want to enlighten us all with proof of this "bs"

That's hardly surprising tell us something we didn't know. Obama farts and what do you say? "I agree, I agree!" "He said it and that settles it!" "I'm willing to take him at his word."

[AURaptor 1,126]

Sad.

Why is it sad ? It's clear from the Rev. Wright fiasco that the press has filed to properly vet Obama's past. No one knows a damn thing about this guy, his ideas, his beliefs, and he's getting a free pass , until now, as a candidate for President ! You explain to me what's sad in trying to unravel what this guy is all about, what he deems important, and why. Seems like the smart thing to do, not 'sad'. if you ask me.

[CCTAU 3,346]

Sad.

Why is it sad ? It's clear from the Rev. Wright fiasco that the press has filed to properly vet Obama's past. No one knows a damn thing about this guy, his ideas, his beliefs, and he's getting a free pass , until now, as a candidate for President ! You explain to me what's sad in trying to unravel what this guy is all about, what he deems important, and why. Seems like the smar thing to do, not 'sad'. if you ask me.

He meant it was sad that you agreed with me. See, to him, I am the right wing negro hating gun toting redneck that is all that's wrong with America. And there are only a few of us out there. Cause if more than ten folks felt like me, then he would be assured that achmed will be exposed. And he doesn't want to think about that. Middle America is not loving on achmed. But that's only cause they are a bunch of racist rednecks.

[arnaldoabru 11]

It is true that there are many Muslims who are not full of the hate and violence that Islam is based on but that doesn't change the facts of the history and birth of Islam. There are many who claim to be Christians but their lives show otherwise. But that doesn't change the message of Christianity. It works both ways.

Islam will play a major role in the downfall of the world. Hide and watch.

Okay, we are brothers so we can agree to disagree on this one. I have actually had a translated Koran in my hand. I chose to see what it was in the Koran that leads Muslims to be so violent and hate freedom. So, I took it home for a few months and looked it over. I never found anywhere that substantiated the claim that it is a religion founded on hate, violence, murder, and war. However, it does have parts in it when believers were told to kill in the name of Muhammed.

However, one could take the Bible and twist it, such as what extreme Muslims like Al-Qeada have done, and claim that Christianity is based upon murder, violence, and war towards any that do not believe the Bible. Just like they twist the parts of the Bible where God ordered the kings of the Old Testament to go to war in His name and kill the unbelievers, there has now been others to do the same to the Islamic faith. Hitler, used the parts in the Bible when God had the believers to go to war in His name as a teaching tool to convince those that his Nazi beliefs were correct. History has not always been kind to the Christian faith either. I wish it was, but if I am going to paint Islam as violent based religion, then I have to be prepared what may get thrown back in my face. As a matter of fact, my Muslim co-worker did throw that in my face, which is what led me to take a copy of Koran home to look over, because I was challenged to find what I was accusing their faith of. I had to swallow a lot of pride a few months later.

From what I have read of the Koran, and actually understood, it actually teaches of morals and peace also. Heck, most religions are all about morals, being kind to your neighbor and the such, or it would be hard to ever get any believers. However, as it goes with all those non-Christian religions, I believe they are wrong in their way to salvation. If I actually though that Islam was a religion of murderers, then shouldn't I take out any Muslim I meet before they took me out. Isn't that what Muslims extremists say about Jews and Christians, so why would we make the same stereotype of Islam?

Some of you know this and some of you don't, but I was in the Army when several of my Ranger brothers were gunned down by Muslim men, women, and children in October of 1993. It took my a very long time to not look at a Muslim American and not fill up with hate towards them. God really tested me in 1994 when I took my first civilian job after my discharge from the Army in which I was working the night shift with a very outgoing Muslim co-worker. I admit I was very bigoted towards her even though I now realize she was a very nice person. That is why I say be careful when saying a certain religion is a certain way unless I know for sure myself that it is. It can lead you down an ugly road before you know what has happened. I had to eventually realize my hatred was geared to the power hungry man that manipulated those men, women, and children into doing what he wanted because those people were starving and he controlled all the food the UN was shipping in. People are real easy to manipulate when they are starving and their faith had nothing to do why they were shooting at us.

We, as Christians, hope the world looks at us as a light to the way to salvation. We don't want the world to look at the Hitlers or Timothy McVeighs and think that is the message that Christianity preaches. So, why say that the peaceful Muslims must not be good practicing Muslims? Why, because they are not blowing stuff up? Maybe they are the ones practicing their faith as it should be while their "Nazis" aka Al-Qeada are hijacking their faith for greedy, selfish reasons that have nothing really to do with anything spiritual at all.

Some of you may not agree with me, but if you read nothing else I posted, at least try to chew on that last paragraph. We are fighting a war against very evil, greedy men and not a religion. The terrorists want us to think it is a spiritual war because it deflects from the fact that Osama Bin Laden is a power hungry punk. Nobody wants to follow a power hungry man, but some will follow a man they think is the savior of their religion, no matter how much he twists their religion for his own gain. If your belief about Islam is based upon what you hear others say are what you glean from the internet, I probably am not going to change your mind probably anyway. However, history has also shown when we group all people of a certain religion or nationality together with somebody or a group that has done evil in their name, it is very dangerous thing. Don't believe, then just go back and study what was done with German and Japanese immigrants during WWII. Many German immigrants that were not Nazis before WWII became Nazis during it because they were rounded up and put in camps. That is why you must be careful with what you say about somebody beliefs or culture, because even though they may not believe that way, they could be pushed that way by those making the accusations.

At last,a voice of reason

[arnaldoabru 11]

It is true that there are many Muslims who are not full of the hate and violence that Islam is based on but that doesn't change the facts of the history and birth of Islam. There are many who claim to be Christians but their lives show otherwise. But that doesn't change the message of Christianity. It works both ways.

Islam will play a major role in the downfall of the world. Hide and watch.

Okay, we are brothers so we can agree to disagree on this one. I have actually had a translated Koran in my hand. I chose to see it was in the Koran that leads Muslims to be so violent and hate freedom. So, I took it home for about a month a looked it over. I never found anywhere that substantiated the claim that it is a religion founded on hate, violence, murder, and war. However, it does have parts in it when believers were told to kill in the name of Muhammed.

However, one could take the Bible and twist it, such as what extreme Muslims like Al-Qeada have done, and claim that Christianity is based upon murder, violence, and war towards any that do not believe the Bible. Just like they twist the parts of the Bible where God ordered the kings of the Old Testament to go to war in His name and kill the unbelievers, there has now been others to do the same to the Islamic faith. Hitler, used the parts in the Bible when God had the believers to go to war in His name as a teaching tool to convince those that his Nazi beliefs were correct.

From what I have read of the Koran, and actually understood, it actually teaches of morals and peace also. Heck, most religions are all about morals, being kind to your neighbor and the such, or it would be hard to ever get any believers. However, as it goes with all those non-Christian religions, I believe they are wrong in their way to salvation. If I actually though that Islam was a religion of murderers, then shouldn't I take out any Muslim I meet before they took me out.

Isn't that what Muslims extremists say about Jews and Christians, so why would we make the same stereotype of Islam? Don't forget I was in the Army when several of my Ranger brothers were gunned down byy Muslim men, women, and children in October of 1993. It took my a very long time to not like at a Muslim American and not fill up with hate towards them. God really tested me in 1994 when I took my first civilian job after my discharge from the Army in which I was working the night shift with a very outgoing Muslim co-worker. I admit I was very bigoted towards her even though I now realize she was a very nice person. That is why I say be careful when saying a certain religion is a certain way, especially if you are just going by what others say or what you glean from the internet. It can lead you down an ugly road before you know what has happened.

We, as Christians, hope the world looks at us as a light to the way to salvation. We don't want the world to look at the Hitlers or Timothy McVeighs and think that is the message that Christianity preaches. So, why say that the peaceful Muslims must not be good practicing Muslims? Why, because they are not blowing stuff up? Maybe they are the ones practicing their faith as it should be while their "Nazis" aka Al-Qeada are hijacking their faith for greedy, selfish reasons that have nothing really to do with anything spiritual at all.

Some of you may not agree with me, but if you read nothing else I posted, at least try to chew on that last paragraph.

None of my findings of Islam come from the internet. I have never read the Koran nor do I ever plan to. Most of what I know of Muhammad I got from a book on Islam and world religions a few years ago and a biography on History channel. My point was that not all Muslims do as Muhammad commanded them to do just as not all Christians do as Christ commanded them to do such as; love your enemies, pray for your enemies, etc. The central message of Christ all centers around love. Muhammad never once commanded his followers to love the people that rejected "his" doctrine. I in no way support violence towards anyone because of their beliefs or lack thereof. I'll let God take care of that.

In defense of Rod Parsley, it has been a while since I read his book Silent No More but I don't remember him commanding Christians to go out and wage a Holy War on Muslims. Like I said earlier I am not a big fan of Parsley but "most" of what is in his book IMO is dead on. Perhaps I will do some more researching on these issues to refresh my memory since we both know how bad that is. It is possible that I am wrong but I doubt it since the year is still young and to date I have only been wrong once this year. LOL! Maybe my mind is little cloudy from the baseball your son hit me in the head with yesterday.

How would you know what Mumammad commanded his followers to do if you have never read it.Ranger, at least took the challange and read parts of it to be able to form HIS OWN OPINION.Not relying on the opinion of others.

[autiger4life 3]

Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!

I'm sorry, I thought I had read all the comments, I didn't see where someone was trying to say that if you are at war and someone tries to shoot you that you shouldn't shoot back. Did I miss that part.

Either I missed it or AURaptor was making another poor attempt to turn a statement like, "I learned that not all Muslims are violent and that it was really a power hungry man I was fighting not a religon" into "I was shot at and was fine with not shooting back" You are an idiot Raptor.

CCTAU, I disagree with him all the time, but at least that is based on his beliefs versus my beliefs, not just a complete lack of understanding or ability to create an opinion.

Note: Sorry CCTAU, I'm sure you hate compliments from libbies, didn't mean to make you look bad.

[autiger4life 3]

Oh, and on the actual topic, as an Obama supporter I find it troubling that he would characterize someone as his spiritual mentor/leader, be married, and have kids baptized and then not know what the preacher believed.

I also found it BS, he knew. No way he didn't. I do believe that he doesn't agree with it but he had to know.

[bojack34 2]

It is true that there are many Muslims who are not full of the hate and violence that Islam is based on but that doesn't change the facts of the history and birth of Islam. There are many who claim to be Christians but their lives show otherwise. But that doesn't change the message of Christianity. It works both ways.

Islam will play a major role in the downfall of the world. Hide and watch.

Okay, we are brothers so we can agree to disagree on this one. I have actually had a translated Koran in my hand. I chose to see it was in the Koran that leads Muslims to be so violent and hate freedom. So, I took it home for about a month a looked it over. I never found anywhere that substantiated the claim that it is a religion founded on hate, violence, murder, and war. However, it does have parts in it when believers were told to kill in the name of Muhammed.

However, one could take the Bible and twist it, such as what extreme Muslims like Al-Qeada have done, and claim that Christianity is based upon murder, violence, and war towards any that do not believe the Bible. Just like they twist the parts of the Bible where God ordered the kings of the Old Testament to go to war in His name and kill the unbelievers, there has now been others to do the same to the Islamic faith. Hitler, used the parts in the Bible when God had the believers to go to war in His name as a teaching tool to convince those that his Nazi beliefs were correct.

From what I have read of the Koran, and actually understood, it actually teaches of morals and peace also. Heck, most religions are all about morals, being kind to your neighbor and the such, or it would be hard to ever get any believers. However, as it goes with all those non-Christian religions, I believe they are wrong in their way to salvation. If I actually though that Islam was a religion of murderers, then shouldn't I take out any Muslim I meet before they took me out.

Isn't that what Muslims extremists say about Jews and Christians, so why would we make the same stereotype of Islam? Don't forget I was in the Army when several of my Ranger brothers were gunned down byy Muslim men, women, and children in October of 1993. It took my a very long time to not like at a Muslim American and not fill up with hate towards them. God really tested me in 1994 when I took my first civilian job after my discharge from the Army in which I was working the night shift with a very outgoing Muslim co-worker. I admit I was very bigoted towards her even though I now realize she was a very nice person. That is why I say be careful when saying a certain religion is a certain way, especially if you are just going by what others say or what you glean from the internet. It can lead you down an ugly road before you know what has happened.

We, as Christians, hope the world looks at us as a light to the way to salvation. We don't want the world to look at the Hitlers or Timothy McVeighs and think that is the message that Christianity preaches. So, why say that the peaceful Muslims must not be good practicing Muslims? Why, because they are not blowing stuff up? Maybe they are the ones practicing their faith as it should be while their "Nazis" aka Al-Qeada are hijacking their faith for greedy, selfish reasons that have nothing really to do with anything spiritual at all.

Some of you may not agree with me, but if you read nothing else I posted, at least try to chew on that last paragraph.

None of my findings of Islam come from the internet. I have never read the Koran nor do I ever plan to. Most of what I know of Muhammad I got from a book on Islam and world religions a few years ago and a biography on History channel. My point was that not all Muslims do as Muhammad commanded them to do just as not all Christians do as Christ commanded them to do such as; love your enemies, pray for your enemies, etc. The central message of Christ all centers around love. Muhammad never once commanded his followers to love the people that rejected "his" doctrine. I in no way support violence towards anyone because of their beliefs or lack thereof. I'll let God take care of that.

In defense of Rod Parsley, it has been a while since I read his book Silent No More but I don't remember him commanding Christians to go out and wage a Holy War on Muslims. Like I said earlier I am not a big fan of Parsley but "most" of what is in his book IMO is dead on. Perhaps I will do some more researching on these issues to refresh my memory since we both know how bad that is. It is possible that I am wrong but I doubt it since the year is still young and to date I have only been wrong once this year. LOL! Maybe my mind is little cloudy from the baseball your son hit me in the head with yesterday.

How would you know what Mumammad commanded his followers to do if you have never read it.Ranger, at least took the challange and read parts of it to be able to form HIS OWN OPINION.Not relying on the opinion of others.

I have seen and read texts from the Koran but I have not read it in it's entirety. If any of you did any research on Muhammad you find that he is nothing but pure evil. Saddam or Osama can't hold a candle to Muhammad.

[RunInRed 16,488]

What a brilliant transition by Obama:

Obama decries 'forces of division'

Posted: 06:53 PM ET

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Obama campaigned in Indiana Saturday.

(CNN) – Referencing the recent uproar over his former minister's controversial sermons, Barack Obama on Saturday denounced the "forces of division" that he says have become part of the Democratic race for the White House.

Speaking to a sold-out crowd in Plainfield, Indiana, Obama again said he sharply disagreed with the some of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's past statements, saying they remind him of the country's "tragic history when it comes to race."

"I knew him and know him as somebody in my church who talked to me about Jesus and family and friendships but clearly had – if all I knew were the statements that I saw on television I would be shocked," Obama said. "And it just – it reminds me that we have a tragic history when it comes to race in in this country – we have got a lot of pent up anger and bitterness and misunderstanding."

"But what I continue to believe in is that this country wants to move beyond these kinds of debates," he added. "That this country wants something different."

Obama's comments come one day after he formally repudiated Wright's sermons — recently posted on the Internet and the subject of an ABC News report — that have drawn fire. The campaign also said Friday Wright no longer had a leadership position within the campaign.

– CNN's

There is not a smarter candidate in the field. I'm so glad the Wright thing came out. This will give him the boost he needs to win the nominaiton and launch him right into the oval office...what a blessing in disguise and what a great message of reconciliation Obama has turned this into. Truly brilliant.

[AURaptor 1,126]

"Move beyond these kinds of debates ? " What Obama really means is that he wants to put t his behind him so he'll stop droping in the polls! He wants folks to ignroe the fact that Rev. Wright has been a close advisor to him and Barack's family for 20 yrs, and this is the sort of " spiritual leadership " that Barack looks toward for guidence! You're kidding yourself if you think this will give Obama a "boost ". There's nothing brilliant in stalling a few days to finally dump the dead weight which was dragging his campaign down into the ditch. That Barack finally did the rihgt thing shows signs of 'some' intelligence, but he's far from brilliant. Brilliant would have taken care of all this BEFORE the campaign started.

[RunInRed 16,488]

"Move beyond these kinds of debates ? " What Obama really means is that he wants to put t his behind him so he'll stop droping in the polls! He wants folks to ignroe the fact that Rev. Wright has been a close advisor to him and Barack's family for 20 yrs, and this is the sort of " spiritual leadership " that Barack looks toward for guidence! You're kidding yourself if you think this will give Obama a "boost ". There's nothing brilliant in stalling a few days to finally dump the dead weight which was dragging his campaign down into the ditch. That Barack finally did the rihgt thing shows signs of 'some' intelligence, but he's far from brilliant. Brilliant would have taken care of all this BEFORE the campaign started.

Is that the best you got?

[AURaptor 1,126]

"Move beyond these kinds of debates ? " What Obama really means is that he wants to put t his behind him so he'll stop droping in the polls! He wants folks to ignroe the fact that Rev. Wright has been a close advisor to him and Barack's family for 20 yrs, and this is the sort of " spiritual leadership " that Barack looks toward for guidence! You're kidding yourself if you think this will give Obama a "boost ". There's nothing brilliant in stalling a few days to finally dump the dead weight which was dragging his campaign down into the ditch. That Barack finally did the rihgt thing shows signs of 'some' intelligence, but he's far from brilliant. Brilliant would have taken care of all this BEFORE the campaign started.

Is that the best you got?

I don't need better. It is what it is.

[RunInRed 16,488]

More...

The forces of division have started to raise their ugly heads again," he said at a town hall meeting at a high school in Plainfield, Ind.

... "We've got a tragic history when it comes to race in this country," Obama said, citing "pent-up anger and mistrust and bitterness." But, he added, "I continue to believe that this country wants to move beyond these kinds of things."

Noting his own ethnic background -- his mother was white and his father black -- Obama said: "As somebody who was born into a diverse family, as somebody who has little pieces of America all in me, I will not allow us to lose this moment."

As the crowd rose shouting, "Yes we can, yes we can," Obama said that it was important to speak up against inflammatory words like those of Wright, but equally important to come together.

"It is within our power to join together, to truly make a United States of America," he said. "That's the only way that we're going to deliver on the big issues we're facing in this country. We cannot solve healthcare divided. We cannot create an economy that works for everybody divided. We cannot fight terrorism divided. We cannot care for our veterans divided. We have to come together."