Why Saban ISN'T in a gray area for running video conferences

[Birmingham 0]

Some have brought up a good point in that even though Saban has never lead a team into a probation that he needs to understand that the place he's at now is a place that is looked at closely because of past violations. This is a VERY valid point. And the point was made that he should understand this and stay away from the grey areas because eventually the NCAA is going to hammer him. Another absolutely valid point.... what I don't agree with is that the video teleconference with a recruit is a gray area... and I think Nick feels the same way. The reason I think that Nick feels the same way is because he is simply following the NCAA rulebook.....

Coaching Staff Member Contacting Prospect through Video Conference: (I) The NCAA Division I Management Council used its authority set forth in NCAA Constitution 5.4.1.2.1.5 to reverse a previous Council-approved official interpretation and agreed that it is permissible for an institution's coaching staff member to engage in face-to-face contact with a prospect via video conference, provided such contact counts as a recruiting contact and occurs during a permissible contact period. [References: NCAA Bylaws 13.4.2 (video/audio materials) and 13.02.3 (contact)]

[runswithscissors 33]

Some have brought up a good point in that even though Saban has never lead a team into a probation that he needs to understand that the place he's at now is a place that is looked at closely because of past violations. This is a VERY valid point. And the point was made that he should understand this and stay away from the grey areas because eventually the NCAA is going to hammer him. Another absolutely valid point.... what I don't agree with is that the video teleconference with a recruit is a gray area... and I think Nick feels the same way. The reason I think that Nick feels the same way is because he is simply following the NCAA rulebook.....

Coaching Staff Member Contacting Prospect through Video Conference: (I) The NCAA Division I Management Council used its authority set forth in NCAA Constitution 5.4.1.2.1.5 to reverse a previous Council-approved official interpretation and agreed that it is permissible for an institution's coaching staff member to engage in face-to-face contact with a prospect via video conference, provided such contact counts as a recruiting contact and occurs during a permissible contact period. [References: NCAA Bylaws 13.4.2 (video/audio materials) and 13.02.3 (contact)]

and furthermore:

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership...08/football.pdf

Telephone Calls

All electronically transmitted human voice exchange (including videoconferencing and videophones) shall be considered telephone calls. All electronically transmitted correspondence (e.g., electronic

mail, Instant Messenger, facsimiles, pages, text messaging) shall not be considered telephone calls (see NCAA Bylaw 13.4.1).

it is also not against the rules for Cignetti to leave behind a web address to sign on to the video conference either, which is what happened (see http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/stories/i...xml&coll=2. it is no different than leaving a phone number with the coach for a recruit to call whenever he likes.

[abrnfanatc 6]

Recruiting Season 2009...brought to you by Cisco Wireless.

[Birmingham 0]

I really hate to get off topic but abrnfanatc, let's get the Brewers tonight!

[AUesquire 1]

But if he never takes off that gray suit, is he not always in a gray area?

[BamaGrad03 0]

But if he never takes off that gray suit, is he not always in a gray area?

2 points, good hustle.

[Birmingham 0]

But if he never takes off that gray suit, is he not always in a gray area?

LOL

[abrnfanatc 6]

I really hate to get off topic but abrnfanatc, let's get the Brewers tonight!

We can agree on that...

[lukeduke 8]

I don't disagree that this is legal (for now), but my question is still how are the schools receiving the video call paying for the equipment.

[Birmingham 0]

I don't disagree that this is legal (for now), but my question is still how are the schools receiving the video call paying for the equipment.

I can only speak for the public school in my town when I was in high school in the late 90's. We had teleconferencing room and equipment and talked to some classes over on the west coast. Is it that hard to believe that schools would have this? I'm really asking. I just never thought that this was a rarity. My high school was a small public school.

I work in the cigar industry. I've made many contacts having to do with the product that I work with and I know who to go to for a deal on something if I need it. At the least I know people who are in contact with people who can help me out. I could only imagine it would be the same if my business was a High School. I would think that this kind of equipment is associated with the contacts that sell them and both are readily available to the people managing the school board.

[ssgaufan 0]

I've kept silent about this long enough, but this is my opinion on the video teleconference. It is NOT the same as a telephone call, it is more like a face to face contact. If you have ever been in a video teleconference, then you know it was created for upper management to see facial expressions. If you can look someone in the eyes, you can tell if they are lying to you or not. When Saban (or any coach for that matter) tells a kid something during one of these conferences, both parties are able to see the facial expressions, and read the body language, therefore making it more of a face to face than a telephone call. I can lie like hell over the phone, but it's a different story when someone is looking me in the eyes.

Just my .02

[runswithscissors 33]

I don't disagree that this is legal (for now), but my question is still how are the schools receiving the video call paying for the equipment.

as the story reads

Alabama assistant coach Curt Cignetti visited Athens High, which has a Distance Learning Lab that allows Athens students to take online classes by using a live webcam.

the equipment was already in place for other purposes.

[lukeduke 8]

In the case where a distance learning class was available, I don't see that big of an issue. It's still shady, but not a rulebreaker.

As for your comment Birmingham, you said in another thread that you are from Tennessee, this contact in question was from Georgia.

Alabama schools are constantly lacking for funding (no lottery like our neighbors). While my high school had a distance learning lab, it was a larger school and a pilot for other area schools. I am just waiting on the story of a state school with a blue chip recruit that just magically happens to get videoconferencing equipment donated.

[Birmingham 0]

did they only get the equipment recently?

[runswithscissors 33]

In the case where a distance learning class was available, I don't see that big of an issue. It's still shady, but not a rulebreaker.

As for your comment Birmingham, you said in another thread that you are from Tennessee, this contact in question was from Georgia.

Alabama schools are constantly lacking for funding (no lottery like our neighbors). While my high school had a distance learning lab, it was a larger school and a pilot for other area schools. I am just waiting on the story of a state school with a blue chip recruit that just magically happens to get videoconferencing equipment donated.

now i agree, if there was some equipment that just magically appeared and did not have a prior or future purpose other than being used for recruiting, that might be a problem.

[quietfan 233]

...provided such contact counts as a recruiting contact and occurs during a permissible contact period.

My only question(s)---and I don't know 'cause I don't know the NCAA recruiting calendar:

What is "a permissible contact period"?

What was the NCAA calendar status at the time of the teleconference?

Are there different "permissiable contact periods" for telephone contact vs. face-to-face contact?

Does the NCAA distinguish between a head coach (Saban) visiting campus vs. an assistant (Cignetti), & if so, in what way--are assisants exempt from the new "Saban rule"?

[Honest inquiry from me--no smack intended-- because I truly don't know the ends & outs of NCAA recruiting policies.]

[runswithscissors 33]

...provided such contact counts as a recruiting contact and occurs during a permissible contact period.

My only question(s)---and I don't know 'cause I don't know the NCAA recruiting calendar:

What is "a permissible contact period"?

What was the NCAA calendar status at the time of the teleconference?

Are there different "permissiable contact periods" for telephone contact vs. face-to-face contact?

Does the NCAA distinguish between a head coach (Saban) visiting campus vs. an assistant (Cignetti), & if so, in what way--are assisants exempt from the new "Saban rule"?

[Honest inquiry from me--no smack intended-- because I truly don't know the ends & outs of NCAA recruiting policies.]

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership...08/football.pdf

there is the breakdown of definitions....that should help some. the video conference occured during the "evaluation period". during an evaluation period, a recruiter can come by the school, however cannot meet in person in the same area as the recruit. there are times when a head coach can or cannot be present. just depends on the calendar. Cignetti was perfectly fine with what he did. the leaving of the web address with the coach for the recruit to initiate the conference was no different than giving a phone number to a coach so the recruit could call if he wished. btw, during the evaluation period it is acceptable for the recruit to call a head coach or any coach as much as he wants. and since the NCAA says it is considered a phone call.....well, you get the idea.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

For me the bottomline in all this is simply that I'm sure Saban has run this by the NCAA for their ruling or he is stupid.

He has already admitted to several minor violations and the NCAA won't let him push that envelope forever.

[quietfan 233]

For me the bottomline in all this is simply that I'm sure Saban has run this by the NCAA for their ruling or he is stupid.

Uhh...could be both! The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive!

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

For me the bottomline in all this is simply that I'm sure Saban has run this by the NCAA for their ruling or he is stupid.

Uhh...could be both! The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive!

Good point

[LegalEagle 22]

I heard the video conferencing didn't come off without a hitch. It seems that the recruit could only see Saban's forehead and hair for the first five minutes. Someone got him a boat cushion to sit on and it went well from there on.

[Hoopie 6]

Those dang built in computer cameras can't be aimmed downward and are built to accomodate the normal sized human. Maybe the Red Elephant Club can pitch in for a special ordered computer.

[The Prowler 1]

I heard the video conferencing didn't come off without a hitch. It seems that the recruit could only see Saban's forehead and hair for the first five minutes. Someone got him a boat cushion to sit on and it went well from there on.

Also you forgot to talk about the Motion Sickness that the recruits had. I heard that mainly all they saw was a Blur and that they couldn't hear him very well with All of the coaches at the High School laughing.