Deeper examination of Rev. Wright's infamous sermons

[TitanTiger 20,511]

If I'd started this thread to tout the merits of Rev. Wright's overall worldview and support him, I'd care about those links more. But as I've said til I'm blue in the face, that wasn't my purpose for this thread. I really don't know how to explain it any better to make the point of this thread clear.

[DKW 86 7,444]

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=8159

http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/27658

As WND reported yesterday, Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago has removed from the "About Us" page of its website a section outlining its radical belief system for blacks.

They never had the quote you list above.

No Einstein they note that it was removed from the TUCOC website....

[TexasTiger 13,031]

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=8159

http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/27658

As WND reported yesterday, Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago has removed from the "About Us" page of its website a section outlining its radical belief system for blacks.

They never had the quote you list above.

No Einstein they note that it was removed from the TUCOC website....

Lose the smugness, brother, and read it again more closely. The quote you cite was NEVER on their page.

[tiger88 934]

Yeah, but it does cite that it is one of Cone's most widely quoted passages. It also has some other quotes that are rather twisted and the author of the quotes, Cone, states that he believes Trinity is the one church in the US that most closely embodies his beliefs.

Of course obama had no idea whatsoever for 20 years that his preacher held these beliefs. That gets funnier everytime someone says it. It looks more and more everyday like obama has a siver tongue and a hidden agenda.

[TexasTiger 13,031]

Yeah, but it does cite that it is one of Cone's most widely quoted passages. It also has some other quotes that are rather twisted and the author of the quotes, Cone, states that he believes Trinity is the one church in the US that most closely embodies his beliefs.

Of course obama had no idea whatsoever for 20 years that his preacher held these beliefs. That gets funnier everytime someone says it. It looks more and more everyday like obama has a siver tongue and a hidden agenda.

You ever read Cone?

[tiger88 934]

Yeah, but it does cite that it is one of Cone's most widely quoted passages. It also has some other quotes that are rather twisted and the author of the quotes, Cone, states that he believes Trinity is the one church in the US that most closely embodies his beliefs.

Of course obama had no idea whatsoever for 20 years that his preacher held these beliefs. That gets funnier everytime someone says it. It looks more and more everyday like obama has a siver tongue and a hidden agenda.

You ever read Cone?

no

[TexasTiger 13,031]

Yeah, but it does cite that it is one of Cone's most widely quoted passages. It also has some other quotes that are rather twisted and the author of the quotes, Cone, states that he believes Trinity is the one church in the US that most closely embodies his beliefs.

Of course obama had no idea whatsoever for 20 years that his preacher held these beliefs. That gets funnier everytime someone says it. It looks more and more everyday like obama has a siver tongue and a hidden agenda.

You ever read Cone?

no

For Cone, "blackness" is a concept, not skin color:

"Being black in America has little to do with skin color. Being black means that your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body are where the dispossessed are." (Black Theology and Black Power, p. 1)

"I think the time has come for black theologians and church people to move beyond a mere reaction to white racism in America and begin to extend our vision of a new socially constructed humanity in the whole inhabited world...For humanity is whole, and cannot be isolated into racial and national groups." Cone in 1977-- when Obama was a 16 year old in Hawaii

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1228

[tiger88 934]

Here's some of what he thinks about whiteness.

Cone writes: "Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.' The white structure of this American society, personified in every racist, must be at least part of what the New Testament meant by demonic forces...Ironically, the man who enslaves another enslaves himself...To be free to do what I will in relation to another is to be in bondage to the law of least resistance. This is the bondage of racism. Racism is that bondage in which whites are free to beat, rape, or kill blacks. About thirty years ago it was acceptable to lynch a black man by hanging him from a tree; but today whites destroy him by crowding him into a ghetto and letting filth and despair put the final touches on death."

I'm sorry, but when I read something like this, I don't need to read much more.

link

[TexasTiger 13,031]

Here's some of what he thinks about whiteness.

Cone writes: "Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.' The white structure of this American society, personified in every racist, must be at least part of what the New Testament meant by demonic forces...Ironically, the man who enslaves another enslaves himself...To be free to do what I will in relation to another is to be in bondage to the law of least resistance. This is the bondage of racism. Racism is that bondage in which whites are free to beat, rape, or kill blacks. About thirty years ago it was acceptable to lynch a black man by hanging him from a tree; but today whites destroy him by crowding him into a ghetto and letting filth and despair put the final touches on death."

I'm sorry, but when I read something like this, I don't need to read much more.

When I hear something I don't agree with, my first impulse is typically to try to make sure my understanding is accurate, and if so, why the person thinks what they do. For men of Cone's generation, the "white church" often supported segregation. In fact, for those who wonder why there's a "black church", it's because for Blacks who wanted to be Christian, most white "Christian" churches weren't open to them. In the 60s, fed up young blacks increasingly saw little reason to embrace a religion that had supported their enslavement and oppression. That's why Malcolm X was appealing to many young black men in certain inner cities at that time. For Christianity to have more relevance in folks day-to-day lives, men like Cone presented the scripture as the story of a God of oppressed people-- which is what the Jews of Christ's time were and what Moses' people were. God is on the side of oppressed people. He gives them strength against their oppressors. The language was stronger at that time. Cone has moderated considerably, even as early as 1977 as quoted above.

Now, I'm not necessarily a fan of Cone's, but I understand him better than I did when this story first broke. And I don't think he some evil hate monger that hates all white people.

[DKW 86 7,444]

Now, I'm not necessarily a fan of Cone's, but I understand him better than I did when this story first broke. And I don't think he some evil hate monger that hates all white people.

Maybe you need to re-read the passage.

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

[TexasTiger 13,031]

Now, I'm not necessarily a fan of Cone's, but I understand him better than I did when this story first broke. And I don't think he some evil hate monger that hates all white people.

Maybe you need to re-read the passage.

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

Maybe you should read a few posts up on how Cone defines "black" and how he further moderated his position over 30 years ago.

But this is what we will see in the fall-- Republicans trying to convince white people that Obama must want to kill white people and God himself because of what some guy who has no apparent personal relationship with Obama, wrote 40 years ago during one of the most tumultuous times in our history.

[OldNewby 27]

Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true. - Fracis Bacon

[tiger88 934]

Here's some of what he thinks about whiteness.

Cone writes: "Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.' The white structure of this American society, personified in every racist, must be at least part of what the New Testament meant by demonic forces...Ironically, the man who enslaves another enslaves himself...To be free to do what I will in relation to another is to be in bondage to the law of least resistance. This is the bondage of racism. Racism is that bondage in which whites are free to beat, rape, or kill blacks. About thirty years ago it was acceptable to lynch a black man by hanging him from a tree; but today whites destroy him by crowding him into a ghetto and letting filth and despair put the final touches on death."

I'm sorry, but when I read something like this, I don't need to read much more.

When I hear something I don't agree with, my first impulse is typically to try to make sure my understanding is accurate, and if so, why the person thinks what they do. For men of Cone's generation, the "white church" often supported segregation. In fact, for those who wonder why there's a "black church", it's because for Blacks who wanted to be Christian, most white "Christian" churches weren't open to them. In the 60s, fed up young blacks increasingly saw little reason to embrace a religion that had supported their enslavement and oppression. That's why Malcolm X was appealing to many young black men in certain inner cities at that time. For Christianity to have more relevance in folks day-to-day lives, men like Cone presented the scripture as the story of a God of oppressed people-- which is what the Jews of Christ's time were and what Moses' people were. God is on the side of oppressed people. He gives them strength against their oppressors. The language was stronger at that time. Cone has moderated considerably, even as early as 1977 as quoted above.

Now, I'm not necessarily a fan of Cone's, but I understand him better than I did when this story first broke. And I don't think he some evil hate monger that hates all white people.

Maybe he is and maybe he isn't a hate monger. At one point he certainly spoke like one and I have already pondered some of the reasons he felt that way based upon what I have read on the sites I've been to speaking about he and BLT. Maybe he has lived and learned and softened his message a little and maybe he's just gotten smarter and more covert about things. One thing for sure is that I am beyond tired of hearing people gripe and whine about what the US govt has done in the past and what it owes them. The steps taken to "balance the scales" have already done great damage to the country imo.

I know that when I see wright speak on tv being interviewed and such he seems to be seething about things in general and it makes me uneasy about obama and his beliefs. As I've already stated, the main thing is obama denying his knowledge of certain wright beliefs. Too big a pill to swallow and if he is fibbing, why?

[arnaldoabru 11]

I'm trying to figure out Obama's "hidden agenda" that is so often refered to on this site.

[WinCrimson 61]

Now, I'm not necessarily a fan of Cone's, but I understand him better than I did when this story first broke. And I don't think he some evil hate monger that hates all white people.

Maybe you need to re-read the passage.

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

Maybe you should read a few posts up on how Cone defines "black" and how he further moderated his position over 30 years ago.

But this is what we will see in the fall-- Republicans trying to convince white people that Obama must want to kill white people and God himself because of what some guy who has no apparent personal relationship with Obama, wrote 40 years ago during one of the most tumultuous times in our history.

Funny you mention it. I had a guy tell me the other day that he's now going to start caring about politics because Obama wants to kill white people. Of course, he threw out a line comparing him to Hitler and tossed the "N" word around in doing so.

I didn't say anything back. I never do. "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

[tiger88 934]

But this is what we will see in the fall-- Republicans trying to convince white people that Obama must want to kill white people and God himself because of what some guy who has no apparent personal relationship with Obama, wrote 40 years ago during one of the most tumultuous times in our history.

No what you will have is democrats trying to play the race card when Republicans point out the obvious. I just hope Mccain has the balls to flat out ask Obama in a debate, "Do you really expect the American public to believe that after spending 20 years around Rev. Wright that you had no idea he held the beliefs he has recently been ranting about on tape and in live interviews?".

What intrigues me is that Wright has already admitted publicly that before the election began that he told Obama that he understood that when things got going he understood that Obama would have to distance himself from him. Hmmmm. Why would he tell O'bama that? Maybe because Obama was well aware of everything wright preaches (having been listening to him for 20 years now) and also knew that the distancing would have to happen? No, it couldn't be that because Obama has already said that he had absolutely no idea that Wright had these crazy ideas in his head until after the election began, and surely Obama wouldn't lie.

I mean what would it have cost him to tell the truth during the nomination process? Hmmmm. The nomination, perhaps, or even probably? I mean he could have easily said, "I don't agree with all his beliefs but do like the path he follows in general". Why would he fib?

For every idiot racist that thinks obama is out to kill whites or refers to him with the n word, there is at least one liberal with a stiffy over what a humanitarian/great person they are for supporting obama and blindly beating obamas "change" drum while they are mostly unaware of what change he will bring and willingly ignoring warning signs about his character afa being honest with the public.

[TexasTiger 13,031]

[

No what you will have is democrats trying to play the race card when Republicans point out the obvious. I just hope Mccain has the balls to flat out ask Obama in a debate, "Do you really expect the American public to believe that after spending 20 years around Rev. Wright that you had no idea he held the beliefs he has recently been ranting about on tape and in live interviews?".

In the interest of assuring that I'm understanding you as this conversation continues, could you please list the "views" that you're referencing?

[Tigermike 3,055]

Y'all need to leave Obama alone, he didn't know any of that. He was sleeping in church when those things were said.

[WinCrimson 61]

I like to think of him outside puffing on a Marlboro Red while the chickens were coming home to roost.

It's a helluva lot cooler than sleep. That's for the boring, uninspiring types such as myself.

[DKW 86 7,444]

Just for the record here...Obama will still likely get my vote come November. No more "Inside the Beltway" thinkers for me.

Wright, TUCOC, and Cone are a completely different ball of wax however. If you cant make fun of whackadoodles, then you just need to lighten up!

[tiger88 934]

[

No what you will have is democrats trying to play the race card when Republicans point out the obvious. I just hope Mccain has the balls to flat out ask Obama in a debate, "Do you really expect the American public to believe that after spending 20 years around Rev. Wright that you had no idea he held the beliefs he has recently been ranting about on tape and in live interviews?".

In the interest of assuring that I'm understanding you as this conversation continues, could you please list the "views" that you're referencing?

Here's a link to help sum up the way I feel on the issue. I wasn't aware of the clarification obama made after his first flat out denials. When I saw him immediately after the story broke on CNN he denied any knowledge of wrights beliefs. The interviewer even pressed him on it asking incredulously if he really had no idea after 20 years.

Now he says he was aware of some of the beliefs but never heard those exact sermons. To me that is an irrelevant clarification. This article pretty much sums up how I feel and I think does a good job of presenting obamas argument as well.

link

[autigeremt 6,717]

Just for the record here...Obama will still likely get my vote come November. No more "Inside the Beltway" thinkers for me.

Wright, TUCOC, and Cone are a completely different ball of wax however. If you cant make fun of whackadoodles, then you just need to lighten up!

I'm sorry.....I can't see voting for an extreme left socialist. Give me a beltway cadidate anyday v/s that. The U.S.A. should not be another Canada or France.