Was the earth created?

[Aufan59 83]

I assume some of you believe that the earth was created at some point by god.

I respect your belief that god created this earth. But couldn't have god created earth two minutes ago, with everything in place (including your memories)? Couldn't he have created it like the Matrix and we are unaware that we are actually in a computer simulation?

If I am disrespectful for arguing against the silliness of Christianity (god creating earth and man), then isn't a Christian disrepsectful if they argue with my premise: That god made aliens that built robots that designed a computer program to simulate life on earth, and we are a part of that computer simulation.

Am I crazy, or if I respect your creation scenario(Christianity), then you must respect my creation scenario? If you call my idea crazy and stupid, does this give me the freedom to call your idea crazy and stupid?

[AUJarhead 70]

So you think the we are living in the Matrix?

And please don't call what I believe "silliness," Neo.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

You have the right to believe that the earth was farted into existence by a big blue banana if you want to. And technically you're free to think any idea is crazy and stupid whether it be a literal 6-day creation, a creation/guided evolution scenario, a completely random chance naturalistic evolution theory or whatever. I do believe there are sound philosophical and scientific arguments to be made for the above mentioned ideas however, while your Matrix theory or my big blue banana theory are rather lacking in that department.

But beyond that, I think if your goal is to gain some sort of traction with the idea that disrespecting each other is the way to go here on AUN, you're not going to get a whole lot of support...various people's conduct in the politics forum notwithstanding. I know we have a handful of atheists here such as AURaptor. And while he's in the minority and certainly the predominating viewpoint around here is one of a religious nature, you don't see a lot of banging on religious or non-religious views between him and others here because it will get us nowhere. I think he does a good job of putting his views out there without being an ass about the religious question and I think most of the religious people here return the favor.

I guess the bottomline is: why seek to disrespect when discussing weighty issues with respect for each other is so much more fruitful and interesting?

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Can we move this to the political forum?

I assume some of you believe that the earth was created at some point by god.

I respect your belief that god created this earth. But couldn't have god created earth two minutes ago, with everything in place (including your memories)? Couldn't he have created it like the Matrix and we are unaware that we are actually in a computer simulation?

If I am disrespectful for arguing against the silliness of Christianity (god creating earth and man), then isn't a Christian disrepsectful if they argue with my premise: That god made aliens that built robots that designed a computer program to simulate life on earth, and we are a part of that computer simulation.

Am I crazy, or if I respect your creation scenario(Christianity), then you must respect my creation scenario? If you call my idea crazy and stupid, does this give me the freedom to call your idea crazy and stupid?

So why don't you expand on your theory a bit?

NO saviour no religion no dogmas no BS.

http://www.abovetops...hread196268/pg1

http://www.abovetops.../pg1#pid2032078

[Duder 238]

I assume some of you believe that the earth was created at some point by god.

I respect your belief that god created this earth. But couldn't have god created earth two minutes ago, with everything in place (including your memories)? Couldn't he have created it like the Matrix and we are unaware that we are actually in a computer simulation?

If I am disrespectful for arguing against the silliness of Christianity (god creating earth and man), then isn't a Christian disrepsectful if they argue with my premise: That god made aliens that built robots that designed a computer program to simulate life on earth, and we are a part of that computer simulation.

Am I crazy, or if I respect your creation scenario(Christianity), then you must respect my creation scenario? If you call my idea crazy and stupid, does this give me the freedom to call your idea crazy and stupid?

I'm not sure I understand the point of your post. You ask for respect of your belief while referring to the "silliness" of Christianity?

This is nothing but a lame attempt to stir the pot because you're bored or have a compelling need to join battles you cannot win. I am not a true Christian either but your post was absurd.

[OldNewby 27]

My mother and I once had this very conservation. She told me to believe whatever I wanted to. But, she told me that one thing was for sure. She told me that on the morning I entered this world, I was a pain.

[MDM4AU 336]

Disagreeing with someone is not disrespectful. Insulting someone's belief and calling it "silly" one could argue is disrespectful. But you are free to think what you want and voice that opinion.

[Aufan59 83]

Lets say I believe in Scientology. It is easy to say you respect my decision, but at what point do you stop tolerating it? When I make a fuss about school teachers not teaching Scientology theory? When legislation is passed based on Scientology teachings? When my religion advertises on TV?

If believing in creation is fair game, then so is Scientology. So is my theory that the world was made 15 years ago and god set everything into place. Would you tolerate me arguing teachers should teach history based on my 15 year old world theory?

[Grumps 3,705]

Yawn. Why don't you go back to playing with your Xbox or studying your spelling words?

[jdub5793 0]

Lets say I believe in Scientology. It is easy to say you respect my decision, but at what point do you stop tolerating it? When I make a fuss about school teachers not teaching Scientology theory? When legislation is passed based on Scientology teachings? When my religion advertises on TV?

If believing in creation is fair game, then so is Scientology. So is my theory that the world was made 15 years ago and god set everything into place. Would you tolerate me arguing teachers should teach history based on my 15 year old world theory?

Are you even serious about this? If so, explain how you came to such a conclusion please.

[OldNewby 27]

He's trapped in a Matrix inside a computer and the Mothership is light years away.

[WarTiger 3,928]

Aufan59 you seem to be here just to antagonize people. I really don't understand the purpose of posting this thread in the first place. Every post you have in this thread has been quite hostile and therefore, doesn't serve you well. I think the entire thread is a bunch of crap. Go believe what you want. Go worship a head of lettuce if you like, but why are you here complaining that people don't agree with your "theory"? This just came out of nowhere. You call christianity "Silliness" then want respect for your own views? Give me a break. It doesn't work that way. You get back what you give. Give respect, and you'll likely get respect. Don't give it (as in this thread) and you get what you get.

[Aufan59 83]

I'm not trying to criticize Christianity. I'm only saying that if it is a valid belief, then so is any other creation scenario. My theory is that the world was created 15 years ago; God put everything into place as it was in 1995.

It cannot be proven, thus it is just a belief. Just like Christianity(not a criticism, just part of religion).

Can we agree up to here?

From there my question is: at what point does my 'belief' become intolerable? I understand it is fine that I have my own beliefs, but does my creation theory get equal opportunity in the public school's science classrooms, for example?

[BamaGrad03 0]

I'd say your belief, since it asserts the earth was created 15 years after I was alive...we can agree that your assertion is bullcrap.

At least go with one of the religions that covers all recorded history. And wasn't created by a science fiction novelist...and "religion" by the way, that reads just like one of those novels.

But even in the absence of a creationism concept, there's a lot of faith involved. And centers on a series of theories that can't be proven. To a further point, the very premise of the theory is founded on the violation of the theory creators' laws of matter.

At the end of the day, everybody has faith. Either you have faith that secures your belief in creationism...or you have the faith required to believe that matter created itself out of nothing into a gigantic explosion that set earth in motion...where after it was set...more stuff started creating itself.

[OldNewby 27]

My theory is that the world was created 15 years ago; God put everything into place as it was in 1995.

Bama fans will never go for a Bearless theory.

[Aufan59 83]

I'd say your belief, since it asserts the earth was created 15 years after I was alive...we can agree that your assertion is bullcrap.

So you are denying that God has the ability to create an earth with things already in place? I simply believe your memories and my memories were created by god in 1995. Why is this a bullcrap assertion, but other creation scenarios aren't?

[au2004ece 30]

I'd say your belief, since it asserts the earth was created 15 years after I was alive...we can agree that your assertion is bullcrap.

So you are denying that God has the ability to create an earth with things already in place? I simply believe your memories and my memories were created by god in 1995. Why is this a bullcrap assertion, but other creation scenarios aren't?

Is that really what you believe? Are you 15 years old? If the answer to both of those is yes, then you have a very narcissistic belief. You believe the world was created for you?

If you are not 15, why do you believe that the world was created 15 years ago instead of 20 years ago or 1 minutes ago?

[Aufan59 83]

I'd say your belief, since it asserts the earth was created 15 years after I was alive...we can agree that your assertion is bullcrap.

So you are denying that God has the ability to create an earth with things already in place? I simply believe your memories and my memories were created by god in 1995. Why is this a bullcrap assertion, but other creation scenarios aren't?

Is that really what you believe? Are you 15 years old? If the answer to both of those is yes, then you have a very narcissistic belief. You believe the world was created for you?

If you are not 15, why do you believe that the world was created 15 years ago instead of 20 years ago or 1 minutes ago?

Those are all possible.

My point is that if you honestly believe in one creation scenario, then aren't all creation scenarios possible too?

I believe that god could have created us 6,000 years ago, with the light from billions of stars already in transit to earth.

He also could have created us 15 minutes ago, with all of our memories in place. He certainly has this power, do we agree?

My base question is this: At what point does a creation scenario become illegitimate? In my opinion, if one creation scenario is considered valid, then every creation scenario can be considered valid, because there is no possibility of proof either way.

[AUBURNJAC 53]

I'd say your belief, since it asserts the earth was created 15 years after I was alive...we can agree that your assertion is bullcrap.

So you are denying that God has the ability to create an earth with things already in place? I simply believe your memories and my memories were created by god in 1995. Why is this a bullcrap assertion, but other creation scenarios aren't?

Is that really what you believe? Are you 15 years old? If the answer to both of those is yes, then you have a very narcissistic belief. You believe the world was created for you?

If you are not 15, why do you believe that the world was created 15 years ago instead of 20 years ago or 1 minutes ago?

Those are all possible.

My point is that if you honestly believe in one creation scenario, then aren't all creation scenarios possible too?

I believe that god could have created us 6,000 years ago, with the light from billions of stars already in transit to earth.

He also could have created us 15 minutes ago, with all of our memories in place. He certainly has this power, do we agree?

My base question is this: At what point does a creation scenario become illegitimate? In my opinion, if one creation scenario is considered valid, then every creation scenario can be considered valid, because there is no possibility of proof either way.

Study Christianity, ask Jesus into your heart, and you will KNOW that he is real and will not need any other proof.

[Aufan59 83]

I'd say your belief, since it asserts the earth was created 15 years after I was alive...we can agree that your assertion is bullcrap.

So you are denying that God has the ability to create an earth with things already in place? I simply believe your memories and my memories were created by god in 1995. Why is this a bullcrap assertion, but other creation scenarios aren't?

Is that really what you believe? Are you 15 years old? If the answer to both of those is yes, then you have a very narcissistic belief. You believe the world was created for you?

If you are not 15, why do you believe that the world was created 15 years ago instead of 20 years ago or 1 minutes ago?

Those are all possible.

My point is that if you honestly believe in one creation scenario, then aren't all creation scenarios possible too?

I believe that god could have created us 6,000 years ago, with the light from billions of stars already in transit to earth.

He also could have created us 15 minutes ago, with all of our memories in place. He certainly has this power, do we agree?

My base question is this: At what point does a creation scenario become illegitimate? In my opinion, if one creation scenario is considered valid, then every creation scenario can be considered valid, because there is no possibility of proof either way.

Study Christianity, ask Jesus into your heart, and you will KNOW that he is real and will not need any other proof.

I spoke with my personal savior who resides in my heart. He said that it was fine for me to believe that the world was 15 years old. What makes yours more legitimate than mine?

I'm not trying to disrepsect, I'm simply trying to make the point that if one creation scenario deserves equal opportunity, then ALL creation scenarios deserve equal opportunity.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

Well the only reason I could see that your belief may not be taught in school or be treated equal is because there is proof that the earth has existed before 1995.

I don't think people will ever know the exact date or even be close to knowing how old the earth really is but I think there's proof that it's lasted a long time.

I believe that if God wanted to, the Apocalypse would happen tomorrow. You can believe what you want. I'm just pointing out that Christianity may not have all the proof to support everything but there is enough proof that would go against your beliefs and would be why your beliefs would not treated equal by others.

[OldNewby 27]

Where's the chain-jerking in progress emotion? Guess this will have to do.

[big daddy russ 0]

I assume some of you believe that the earth was created at some point by god.

I respect your belief that god created this earth. But couldn't have god created earth two minutes ago, with everything in place (including your memories)? Couldn't he have created it like the Matrix and we are unaware that we are actually in a computer simulation?

If I am disrespectful for arguing against the silliness of Christianity (god creating earth and man), then isn't a Christian disrepsectful if they argue with my premise: That god made aliens that built robots that designed a computer program to simulate life on earth, and we are a part of that computer simulation.

Am I crazy, or if I respect your creation scenario(Christianity), then you must respect my creation scenario? If you call my idea crazy and stupid, does this give me the freedom to call your idea crazy and stupid?

I'd like to take a stab at this:

Two reasons why other beliefs work...

1.) Science- Those who believe in the Big Bang Theory have scientific evidence to back it up. A lot of it. Don't see any in your argument.

2.) Historical Precedent- There was an already-formed historical precedent based on writings that go back thousands of years for creationists. Whether it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism (which, coincidentally, all have the same creation story), or any other creationist belief, they all have a long history that predates any of the Matrix trilogies, which I believe came out in 1998. The book of Job, the oldest book in the bible, is 3500 years old. It predates the Roman Empire, Ancient Greece, and the Library at Alexandria. The only civilizations older than the Bible (that I can think of) are Egypt, Babylon, and Sumeria.

If you had some sort of proof, kudos. But I realize that you're just trying to use hyperbole to dismiss Christian beliefs as "silliness." However, by doing that through a belief with no proof, aren't you diminishing your own argument? And don't take this as an attack. It's not at all how I intend it, it's just a debate to get to the heart of the matter.

Look, I'm a Christian who believes in the Big Bang Theory and evolution. I think God put this world in perfect order... in His order... and he did it with physics. He's a lot smarter than I am. He can do that.

I also realize that there are many flaws in my beliefs. And I'm comfortable with that.

However, there's a lot to question in Christianity. It's tough to be a believer. Nearly every Christian questions their faith at some point, and for good reason. Christianity asks you to believe that some teenage girl was visited by a mythical-looking half-human, half-bird creature with a cup of divine semen in his hand and said, "Here you go." (Dumbing the story down, of course.)

I've wondered in the past if she didn't cheat on Joseph and just tried to cover it up by having an "angel" miraculously "visit" Joseph and tell him that she was artificially inseminated by an invisible man. Or maybe Mary was just the hottest girl in the village and Joseph was happy to have her. In Jewish custom, a girl who had extramarital sex was supposed to be cast off (Bible talks about this a little), but because he wanted to keep her around he took the story and ran with it.

There are a ton of different things that have gone through my mind.

The scary thing for people who are just getting into the faith is that that's Christianity in a nutshell. I realized this long ago. But I've also come to terms with my beliefs and have chosen this as my walk in life.

I realize that your post was more an attack on Christianity and creationism than a legitimate question of disrespect (by all means, correct me if I'm wrong). And I also realize that it probably comes out of frustration. Don't know if that frustration stems from Christians who bully their way around using the Bible as their "thumping pad," someone saying your true beliefs are inferior in any way, or what, but that was never been the point of Christianity.

Your beliefs should be valid and you should never be questioned or disrespected by a Christian as long as you have historical precedent or a collection of facts that lead to a sound theory. The simple truth is that in the Christian faith, God created all relationships as a reflection of his love through us. Marriage, the relationship of the church, it was all supposed to be a reflection of Christ's love. We're supposed to mirror Christ with our love, not condemn people with our laws.

Romans 10:4

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Romans 13:9-10

9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

BTW, Romans 10 is our "salvation" chapter. Talks all about how Jesus came as much because of the Gentiles (non-Jews, or non-believers) as he did the Jews. He loved everyone the same. That love should be extended to those with beliefs that don't line up with our own.

We're all flawed. I'm probably even more flawed than most, and that's where the judgment in each of our natures can rear its ugly head. But there was a quote in "Angels and Demons" which I loved. The Carmerlengo (Ewan McGregor) asked Robert Langdon (Tom Hanks) if he believed in God. Langdon stutters for a second, talks about religion, and the Carmerlengo interrupts him, saying, "I didn't ask if you believe what man says about God. I asked if you believe in God."

I've judged others for their beliefs before, so I'm no saint in this matter. I'll be the first to admit that I've said "this is what God believes" in the past, and that was just me interjecting what I believe about God. It wasn't God speaking through me. It was my human faults getting the best of me and me thinking I was superior to someone else because of an opinion I held. It wasn't God's love that I was reflecting in that moment. It was anything but.

St. Francis of Assisi was famous for his doctrine of "Hate the sin, love the sinner," which should be all our MO's as Christians. Doesn't mean we have to convert everyone, or even that we have push our agendas on everyone. Instead, it means that we should love everyone despite our disagreements and despite the fact that you may never believe what we do. And I think part of love is a healthy respect for others.

Which brings us full circle to your question. If you have the historical precedence, plenty of facts and a sound theory, or both, your beliefs absolutely should be respected.

[SLAG-91 1,488]

If you have the historical precedence, plenty of facts and a sound theory, or both, your beliefs absolutely should be respected.

And he has none of this in any of his ridiculous assertions, hence the dismissive responses.

I'll show myself out.

[AURaptor 1,128]

....

And I thought I had too much free time on my hands.