JF3 posts a passing workout this morning

[johnnyAU 3,630]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

Highly doubt that.

You shouldn't. It isn't very difficult to hit passes to a single jogging WR going back and forth in a straight line..indoors...with no wind, nor defender, nor pressure. 

However, I do like that he is working hard on getting better. He definitely has the right attitude.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

25 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

You shouldn't. It isn't very difficult to hit passes to a single jogging WR going back and forth in a straight line..indoors...with no wind, nor defender, nor pressure. 

However, I do like that he is working hard on getting better. He definitely has the right attitude.

Video or it ain't so.

[TAYLORKEETON 790]

That was the first time I ever watched those highlights. Of course it's a highlight video so it'll only have his good plays...watching it did make me feel a little better about his throwing. Running...he can fly but I did notice how he held the ball loosely when he ran it a lot. He really didn't tuck the ball much so I can see where the turnover problem this spring came up. His arm seemed stronger than what I was expecting, but I didn't notice that he actually ran the read option on his runs. They were mostly scrambles & draws. If Gus can improve his arm, & if JF3 can learn & master the concept of the read...as long as he stays healthy I believe he'll get the job done. 

[SouthGATiger 64]

He certainly is campaigning for the job.  But I would imagine that SW and JJ are working just as hard or harder.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Reactions are interesting.  I don't think anyone is saying this video settles the matter and JF3 is the starter.  Nor is anyone saying that Sean White and JJ and sitting around eating Cheetos and watching Netflix this summer.  It was just a glimpse of a workout.  I think it showed pretty decent ability to throw on target in a quick stop/turn/throw set up.  It was encouraging.  Not definitive, just encouraging.  Partly because some here have said he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn consistently.  He's obviously worked hard and continues to and it's going to make this fall camp very interesting.

I will say this though...I'm sure Sean is working out too.  But Sean's passing accuracy wasn't really in question and he is pretty close to his ceiling in that respect.  The things Sean would need to work on to give himself the advantage would be becoming an expert in the playbook, working on his play fakes particularly in the zone read, getting stronger, quicker/faster, more durable and putting more zip on the ball.  The only possible disadvantage is that most of those things have to do with physical attributes.  He can develop some of them but there's a limit to what you can do with what God gave you naturally.  He can be faster, but he's never going to be fast.  He can get stronger and throw harder, but he's never going to have a cannon.  He can put on some muscle and be more durable, but his bone structure is what it is - he can only put on so much muscle and weight.

I don't say that to say Sean won't be the starter against Clemson.  I'm just pointing out that the things JF3 needs to work on for the most part (besides his size) are things that can be improved greatly simply through learning better technique and mechanics - things that anyone can learn if they'll listen and practice.  A QB can take dramatic steps forward just incorporating that into their game even if they never get it to the precision level of an expert pocket passer.  But he has things that he brings to the table naturally that can't be taught and if there's an advantage he has in this competition, that's it.  Whether he can make up enough ground on the parts of his game that need work is the question, but I think if there's an edge in this battle, that's the edge in his favor.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

I think we all can agree that what we've seen from JFIII is encouraging given his Spring game performance and the talk about his problems with accuracy. 

While Sean may not have a canon arm, he has plenty of zip on the ball and can make most of the throws he needs to make.

JJ has the most upside, but probably the biggest barrier to overcome too. 

We're pulling for any and all of them to get better hopefully. 

 

[AUEngineer2016 407]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Reactions are interesting.  I don't think anyone is saying this video settles the matter and JF3 is the starter.  Nor is anyone saying that Sean White and JJ and sitting around eating Cheetos and watching Netflix this summer.  It was just a glimpse of a workout.  I think it showed pretty decent ability to throw on target in a quick stop/turn/throw set up.  It was encouraging.  Not definitive, just encouraging.  Partly because some here have said he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn consistently.  He's obviously worked hard and continues to and it's going to make this fall camp very interesting.

I will say this though...I'm sure Sean is working out too.  But Sean's passing accuracy wasn't really in question and he is pretty close to his ceiling in that respect.  The things Sean would need to work on to give himself the advantage would be becoming an expert in the playbook, working on his play fakes particularly in the zone read, getting stronger, quicker/faster, more durable and putting more zip on the ball.  The only possible disadvantage is that most of those things have to do with physical attributes.  He can develop some of them but there's a limit to what you can do with what God gave you naturally.  He can be faster, but he's never going to be fast.  He can get stronger and throw harder, but he's never going to have a cannon.  He can put on some muscle and be more durable, but his bone structure is what it is - he can only put on so much muscle and weight.

I don't say that to say Sean won't be the starter against Clemson.  I'm just pointing out that the things JF3 needs to work on for the most part (besides his size) are things that can be improved greatly simply through learning better technique and mechanics - things that anyone can learn if they'll listen and practice.  A QB can take dramatic steps forward just incorporating that into their game even if they never get it to the precision level of an expert pocket passer.  But he has things that he brings to the table naturally that can't be taught and if there's an advantage he has in this competition, that's it.  Whether he can make up enough ground on the parts of his game that need work is the question, but I think if there's an edge in this battle, that's the edge in his favor.

TT, you read my mind with these two comments. The video was about as good as I could've expected - he was consistently hitting receivers in stride and getting the ball out quickly. The conditions may not have been exactly game-like, but hey at least he was getting it done. 

Obviously now the next question is whether or not he can consistently perform at the same level in pads against a defense. I really hope he can, because I think that he gives our offense the most explosive potential, which is something we were definitely lacking last year. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

I gotta agree with Bird on this one, I love his commitment and he shows great leadership qualities.  Lower body mechanics are not great, but that has been an issue with all Gus QB's.  At the end of the video he seemed really excited that he completed the drill, I hope this was the first take as others have stated it is not a difficult drill, especially for someone who is a Division 1 QB.  Gus has been working hard to teach him the offense as he sees that he is the guy that the team rallies around.  That is one thing Gus takes highly into consideration when picking a starting QB.  I hope Micheal Vick spent time on fundamentals with him because that is the one area that we struggle to develop in QB's.  GUs and Rhett will have him ready to run the offense, they are great at that.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

I think we all can agree that what we've seen from JFIII is encouraging given his Spring game performance and the talk about his problems with accuracy. 

While Sean may not have a canon arm, he has plenty of zip on the ball and can make most of the throws he needs to make.

JJ has the most upside, but probably the biggest barrier to overcome too. 

We're pulling for any and all of them to get better hopefully. 

 

Agree.

Sean is also far more mobile than he gets credit for around here. 

[AUEngineer2016 407]

27 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Agree.

Sean is also far more mobile than he gets credit for around here. 

Mobile? Yes. A true running threat? No. SW's running was what got him injured last year.

SW is mobile in the same way that Kevin Phillips is a good passer. They're both good respective to their play styles, but in the grand scheme of things they are below average. 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, AUEngineer2016 said:

Mobile? Yes. A true running threat? No. SW's running was what got him injured last year.

SW is mobile in the same way that Kevin Phillips is a good passer. They're both good respective to their play styles, but in the grand scheme of things they are below average. 

 

I didn't say that Sean was a true running threat. What I said is that he's far more mobile than he gets credit for on here. Depending on what your definition of average mobility is, I think you just emphatically proved my point. 

Funny, I remember everybody being so shocked at how well he moved in the MSU game thread. It's like they never watched any of his film at all and instead made typical, lazy assumptions based on his appearance...

[McLoofus 35,182]

Also, this notion that Sean White will get hurt running but JFIII won't is equal parts bizarre and hilarious. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

15 minutes ago, AUEngineer2016 said:

Mobile? Yes. A true running threat? No. SW's running was what got him injured last year.

SW is mobile in the same way that Kevin Phillips is a good passer. They're both good respective to their play styles, but in the grand scheme of things they are below average. 

 

Sorry Engineer, you're WAY off here. You were fine until you compared him to Phillips.

Sean is actually far above average mobile for a passing QB. Is he a threat to run? Not down field, no, but he will move the pocket, avoid pressure and throw on the run... quite accurately.  Just look at his film.  He throws on the run easily as often as he stands in the pocket.  He also was more impressive on designed QB runs than Jeremy.  When he has to run, he's confident.  Should we try to run the zone read with him... heck no... but to say he's below average mobile is just plain wrong.

Running also didn't get him hurt.  Getting hit got him hurt... and then getting his foot stepped on in the pocket made it worse.

 

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Also, this notion that Sean White will get hurt running but JFIII won't is equal parts bizarre and hilarious. 

This...

[TitanTiger 20,472]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Also, this notion that Sean White will get hurt running but JFIII won't is equal parts bizarre and hilarious. 

I'm not sure I completely agree with this.  I get that some of this is about their relative lack of size (ability to withstand multiple hits a game).  But one aspect of JF3 over Sean in that regard is that his speed and agility will allow him to avoid hits as well in ways that Sean probably can't.  Nick ran a lot but he didn't take or deliver as many hits as Cam by design.  Just doesn't have the bulk to handle that.  So Nick would get out of bounds more.  He could run himself out of trouble.  So I could see that if you looked at 25 runs by each guy, JF3 may take fewer hits or fewer direct shots simply by being about to run away from them better.

[AU64 10,122]

So, has it been concluded without a doubt that only a running quarterback can operate the auburn offense? If that is the case , I don't understand why we are recruiting some of the quarterbacks that are currently on our list . 

[McLoofus 35,182]

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm not sure I completely agree with this.  I get that some of this is about their relative lack of size (ability to withstand multiple hits a game).  But one aspect of JF3 over Sean in that regard is that his speed and agility will allow him to avoid hits as well in ways that Sean probably can't.  Nick ran a lot but he didn't take or deliver as many hits as Cam by design.  Just doesn't have the bulk to handle that.  So Nick would get out of bounds more.  He could run himself out of trouble.  So I could see that if you looked at 25 runs by each guy, JF3 may take fewer hits or fewer direct shots simply by being about to run away from them better.

You are coming from a place of logic and very well could be right. I just doubt most folks are coming from that same place. 

Personally, I'd venture a guess that vision would be the more important quality in avoiding hits, but it would indeed just be a guess.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

17 minutes ago, AU64 said:

So, has it been concluded without a doubt that only a running quarterback can operate the auburn offense? If that is the case , I don't understand why we are recruiting some of the quarterbacks that are currently on our list . 

I don't know if it's conclusive, but so far the results under Gus have favored QBs who are a genuine running threat.  The years we haven't had one with him (2011, 2015) are in stark contrast to the ones we have (2010, 2013, 2014).  Only once (2009) did we have an effective offense at Auburn without one - with Chris Todd - but even that offense bogged down against the better defenses in the league.

So I guess what I'd say is that we know it works well with a genuine dual threat at QB.  We know it can work well at a school like Tulsa without one.  We've yet to see it truly be lethal without one at Auburn or in the SEC.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Sean has enough wheels to get out of trouble and pick up some first downs, etc....I'd rather he not run the zone read very often, and would like for him to learn to slide occasionally, especially with the new rules in place.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't know if it's conclusive, but so far the results under Gus have favored QBs who are a genuine running threat.  The years we haven't had one with him (2011, 2015) are in stark contrast to the ones we have (2010, 2012, 2015).  Only once (2009) did we have an effective offense at Auburn without one - with Chris Todd - but even that offense bogged down against the better defenses in the league.

So I guess what I'd say is that we know it works well with a genuine dual threat at QB.  We know it can work well at a school like Tulsa without one.  We've yet to see it truly be lethal without one at Auburn or in the SEC.

Gus didn't run the offense in 2012. Kiehl was a genuine running threat in 2011.  There were more factors involved in those offenses than just the style of QB. 

 

Also, in 2009 we kept pace with the eventual, undefeated NC's and led for the majority of the game

[AU64 10,122]

Ya see McLoof...., that's what people are talking about. JF3 would have scored on those plays..... As for "point of logic" I don't think you will find much of that on this board .

 My memory may be unclear , but I don't believe that Cam had the kind of speed of Nick or JF3. but he did have the shiftiness and vision to avoid the pass rush and make some very nice runs. ...as does SW perhaps.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1 minute ago, johnnyAU said:

Gus didn't run the offense in 2012. Kiehl was a genuine running threat in 2011.  There were more factors involved in those offenses than just the style of QB. 

Sorry, I meant 2013 and 2014.

Kiehl was a running threat but not nearly as much of one as we were expecting coming in.  He ran kind of stiff and upright.

And yes I'll agree that there were more issues going on.  My point is that the value of a genuine dual threat QB is a proven with Gus at Auburn.  Effective offense here without one under Gus is unproven at best.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Sorry, I meant 2013 and 2014.

Kiehl was a running threat but not nearly as much of one as we were expecting coming in.  He ran kind of stiff and upright.

And yes I'll agree that there were more issues going on.  My point is that the value of a genuine dual threat QB is a proven with Gus at Auburn.  Effective offense here without one under Gus is unproven at best.

While I'll agree on that point, I'd also add that a true dual threat QB would benefit any offense, especially if he has the skills of a Cam Newton or Deshaun Watson. Wouldn't we love to have one of those guys at the helm in 2016?

[Tiger 8,822]

The way teams defended our read-option look last year was to completely ignore the QB and crash on the RB.  If Gus let SW actually make a read there he could be effective -- notice I'm not saying it will be playing to his strength or he will be a force doing that. But I think he could be effective in that if he kept the ball just a few times and just hit the defense for a 4-6 yard gain that is effective ENOUGH that it will keep the OLB or the DE from blindly crashing down on the RB.

 

No, SW will never be a zone read threat like Nick Marshall. However, he is capable of altering the way a defense plays our run game just enough to improve our run game, in my opinion. Like the Miss St run that McLoofus posted. That type of run isn't to be expected as the norm, but it showed he can run on a zone read to hurt a defense if they over-commit to the RB, which defenses were doing all season.

 

But if we are looking for a legitimate zone read threat, JF3 is the guy that will give us that best option. But the trick is to find out whether his deficiencies in other aspects of quarterbacking will counteract the positive he brings to the ground game.

[YesWeCam 1]

Good to see JF3 working out. Not sure why folks are gonna hate on a kid that is working hard to get better. He doesn't need a Tom Brady like arm to be successful in Gus's system.