offense is 'gonna sling it'

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

19 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Disagree with this some. If Gus let's Chip do his thing he will be A reason we would be succesful passing. He brings a much more polished passing attack from an Xs & Os stand point. He uses spacing much more effectively  in his passing schemes than Gus does.No doubt having a QB that can make the throws is massive but better route schemes & designs will help too.

It will all help to a small degree, but if Stidham goes down, we will again see the same short White passes.

I would much rather have Lashlee/Stidham than Lindsey/White. It's like choosing a Mercedes over a Kia. One takes a few seconds to hit 60. The other you might get there if you hitchhike after it breaks down.

[DAG 33,982]

6 hours ago, ellitor said:

Disagree with this some. If Gus let's Chip do his thing he will be A reason we would be succesful passing. He brings a much more polished passing attack from an Xs & Os stand point. He uses spacing much more effectively  in his passing schemes than Gus does.No doubt having a QB that can make the throws is massive but better route schemes & designs will help too.

This is how I feel as well. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

9 hours ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

When the majority of your passes are <10 yards, your completion percentage increases, but your odds of scoring through the air decrease because of those same limitations of being able to stretch defenses.

I realize that this is a common talking point, but it's actually incorrect. Up until he was hurt, Sean actually had the highest yards per attempt of anyone in the SEC. He wasn't throwing a bunch of short passes like Jeremy did in 2015.  More often than not, his passes were between 10 and 20 yards.  His limitation was the deep ball, but he even hit on those around 50% of the time. @DAG is correct. Sean's main limitation was that the coaches never turned him loose when he was healthy. They were dead set on running the ball down the other team's throat... and since it was working, they weren't going to stop. Unfortunately that plan did nothing to prepare the team for when they would need to rely on the pass, which I think was a contributing factor in the Georgia loss. 

[DAG 33,982]

19 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I realize that this is a common talking point, but it's actually incorrect. Up until he was hurt, Sean actually had the highest yards per attempt of anyone in the SEC. He wasn't throwing a bunch of short passes like Jeremy did in 2015.  More often than not, his passes were between 10 and 20 yards.  His limitation was the deep ball, but he even hit on those around 50% of the time. @DAG is correct. Sean's main limitation was that the coaches never turned him loose when he was healthy. They were dead set on running the ball down the other team's throat... and since it was working, they weren't going to stop. Unfortunately that plan did nothing to prepare the team for when they would need to rely on the pass, which I think was a contributing factor in the Georgia loss. 

That was my line of thinking. The difference between NM and SW stems from coaches trusts . They allowed him more opportunities to pass which is bizarre . Nick for sure had a better deep ball but as a pure passer? It wasn't even close . SW had a very good intermediate pass. It probably was his bread and butter .

in fact I would argue the same thing with LK to an extent . Coker and sims definitely were better throwers then their true freshman counterpart but you are comparing a true freshman vs Seniors . It's not surprising the scheme would be initially different for hurts .

[Barnacle 9,064]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

They allowed him more opportunities to pass which is bizarre . 

The obvious reason was Nick's ability to improvise. It's a lot easier to call a pass play when you know your quarterback can make a play out of nothing if everything breaks down. That, and Nick's running threat allowed our receivers to work in a lot more zone coverage, and consequently a lot more space. 

[DAG 33,982]

4 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

The obvious reason was Nick's ability to improvise. It's a lot easier to call a pass play when you know your quarterback can make a play out of nothing if everything breaks down. That, and Nick's running threat allowed our receivers to work in a lot more zone coverage, and consequently a lot more space. 

Maybe so but that reason alone should not have any enduring factor in the limitations of SW passing prowess. Both should've had trust, despite their distinctive athletic ability , especially since SW did extremely well in 3rd and long situations .

[Barnacle 9,064]

Just now, DAG said:

Maybe so but that reason alone should not have any enduring factor in the limitations of SW passing prowess. Both should've had trust, despite their distinctive athletic ability , especially since SW did extremely well in 3rd and long situations .

Maybe it was a trust issue like you guys are speculating. I'm not sure. I always felt like the issue wasn't Sean, it was a lack of trust in the coaches own preparation and scheme. It's hard to trust your quarterback when it's apparent to everyone watching that you don't even trust your own game plan. I think Gus lost a lot of faith in his own ability to effectively call plays more than he lost faith in Sean's abilities to execute them. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

@DAG to me, what's bizarre was our head coach's apparent existential crisis he experienced last season. "Am I going to be a CEO type coach or a hands-on play caller? Who am I?" It wasn't even a private dilemma. We got to see it play out in media interviews and on the sideline throughout the season. In 2015 he says he wants to be a CEO.

Then, in August he says, "One thing that really hit me pretty hard is that I've got to be more active with the daily X's and O's and coaching that goes with that. At the end of the day, I'm a football coach. That's what I look at as my strength."

A month later, in September he says, "I've been really leaning towards [turning over play-calling duties] for about two weeks now." "I'm turning it over to [Rhett Lashlee]. He'll do a great job. I thought he did a fantastic job tonight. I need to be the head coach and that's what I'm going to be." By the end of the season, it wasn't clear who was calling the plays. 

For those wanting Gus to be fired, this is the most convincing reason to do so. I'm very curious what role he will assume this season, and how much control over the offense he will allow Lindsey to exert. If Gus can't figure out who he is by this summer, he won't be around after December. Mark my words. 

[DAG 33,982]

1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

@DAG to me, what's bizarre was our head coach's apparent existential crisis he experienced last season. "Am I going to be a CEO type coach or a hands-on play caller? Who am I?" It wasn't even a private dilemma. We got to see it play out in media interviews and on the sideline throughout the season. In 2015 he says he wants to be a CEO.

Then, in August he says, "One thing that really hit me pretty hard is that I've got to be more active with the daily X's and O's and coaching that goes with that. At the end of the day, I'm a football coach. That's what I look at as my strength."

A month later, in September he says, "I've been really leaning towards [turning over play-calling duties] for about two weeks now." "I'm turning it over to [Rhett Lashlee]. He'll do a great job. I thought he did a fantastic job tonight. I need to be the head coach and that's what I'm going to be." By the end of the season, it wasn't clear who was calling the plays. 

For those wanting Gus to be fired, this is the most convincing reason to do so. I'm very curious what role he will assume this season, and how much control over the offense he will allow Lindsey to exert. If Gus can't figure out who he is by this summer, he won't be around after December. Mark my words. 

I am hoping he proves me wrong but I hope CGM doesn't fall into the category of Coordinator for life . Being a head coach is so extremely hard with all the different dynamics you have to deal with it . It is especially difficult when you are the HC and chief of your side of the ball. Some guys are excellent when they have the time and priority to handle their sole responsibility whether it be from the offense or defensive side of the ball. I was looking at some old highlights from Gus time at Arkansas , Tulsa and A state , as well as , his earlier days at AU as the OC. I caught myself thinking man what happen to that guy ? My assumption would be the daily hardships of being a HC. Maybe with all the responsibility, Gus also lost his confidence in his expertise , I don't know . What I do know is CGM , the OC will always be an innovator and threat. CGM, the HC ...that story is still being written .

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

I am hoping he proves me wrong but I hope CGM doesn't fall into the category of Coordinator for life . Being a head coach is so extremely hard with all the different dynamics you have to deal with it . It is especially difficult when you are the HC and chief of your side of the ball. Some guys are excellent when they have the time and priority to handle their sole responsibility whether it be from the offense or defensive side of the ball. I was looking at some old highlights from Gus time at Arkansas , Tulsa and A state , as well as , his earlier days at AU as the OC. I caught myself thinking man what happen to that guy ? My assumption would be the daily hardships of being a HC. Maybe with all the responsibility, Gus also lost his confidence in his expertise , I don't know . What I do know is CGM , the OC will always be an innovator and threat. CGM, the HC ...that story is still being written .

I do think he will be an excellent head coach, because he really has the intangibles required to lead a bunch of college kids. There's no better proof of that than the fact that if you walk into the athletic dorms, you'll find bunch of guys who have nothing but good things to say about him and the program, and a bunch of new guys who can't wait to play for him, when all they have seen for the past 2+ seasons is disappointment. Someone who doesn't have it would have lost the team in 2015.  

I firmly believe the Gus from Arkansas, Tulsa, 2009-10 Auburn, and Arkansas State has fallen victim to the time suck that is being an SEC head coach.  It was well documented that, when Gus was an OC, he slept maybe 4 hours a night.  The rest was spent working on his O. He wasn't great because he naturally came by it, he was great because he put in so many hours making sure everything was exactly how he wanted it. Now, with the corporate CEO level demands that come from being an SEC head coach, he probably gets 1/4 or less of that time to deal with the offense.  I don't know that he lost his confidence... I just don't think he's able to prepare like he used to and so he doesn't have the back-up plans for his back-up plans.

As for his schizophrenic nature in interviews, I'm certain there is a lot more going on that any of us are aware of. Sometimes I wonder if Gus just says whatever he thinks the PTB want to hear at the time. I also think he was playing the long game to try to find a landing spot for Lashlee. His pimping him as head coaching candidate was too obvious.

[tigeraddikt 1,608]

On 2/19/2017 at 10:16 AM, DAG said:

Yes . 2013 was an anomaly. In a case like that you would want to oppose your will . However , we saw in 2014 that we needed to be way more balance as teams learn to adapt to personell , not to mention we didn't have the same horses the previous years. This continually became evident in 15 and 16 . 

As much as I love seeing bubba impose his will, it would be nice to throw the ball on first down and get our playmakers more involved in the vertical game , other than when we do that goofy Statue of Liberty play action pass.

Probably were going for "impose your will."

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I do think he will be an excellent head coach, because he really has the intangibles required to lead a bunch of college kids. There's no better proof of that than the fact that if you walk into the athletic dorms, you'll find bunch of guys who have nothing but good things to say about him and the program, and a bunch of new guys who can't wait to play for him, when all they have seen for the past 2+ seasons is disappointment. Someone who doesn't have it would have lost the team in 2015.  

I firmly believe the Gus from Arkansas, Tulsa, 2009-10 Auburn, and Arkansas State has fallen victim to the time suck that is being an SEC head coach.  It was well documented that, when Gus was an OC, he slept maybe 4 hours a night.  The rest was spent working on his O. He wasn't great because he naturally came by it, he was great because he put in so many hours making sure everything was exactly how he wanted it. Now, with the corporate CEO level demands that come from being an SEC head coach, he probably gets 1/4 or less of that time to deal with the offense.  I don't know that he lost his confidence... I just don't think he's able to prepare like he used to and so he doesn't have the back-up plans for his back-up plans.

As for his schizophrenic nature in interviews, I'm certain there is a lot more going on that any of us are aware of. Sometimes I wonder if Gus just says whatever he thinks the PTB want to hear at the time. I also think he was playing the long game to try to find a landing spot for Lashlee. His pimping him as head coaching candidate was too obvious.

If/When the extra on-field position becomes an option,

the fix is simple

http://www.press-citizen.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2014/09/02/two-heads-often-better-one/14948499/

[DAG 33,982]

2 minutes ago, tigeraddikt said:

Probably were going for "impose your will."

Good catch . Too lazy to edit.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, AUinTLoosa said:

If/When the extra on-field position becomes an option,

the fix is simple

http://www.press-citizen.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2014/09/02/two-heads-often-better-one/14948499/

Interesting... wonder if/how that would translate to college.  

Garner is supposed to be our associate head coach, which I would imagine takes some of the head coaching duties off of Gus, but I don't know what or how much.

[augolf1716 21,122]

17 hours ago, passthebiscuits said:

Yeah I'm not being negative, and I have every hope that Stidham will be the guy and the updated O will succeed...but...I'm just so wary on  being too optimistic until I see some improvement on the field.

pragmatism...astigmatism something like that. 

Inuendo, it isn't just an Italian suppository. 

Really did you have to use that word

[lionheartkc 6,150]

4 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Really did you have to use that word

Too familiar?

[augolf1716 21,122]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Too familiar?

No comment

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

22 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I realize that this is a common talking point, but it's actually incorrect. Up until he was hurt, Sean actually had the highest yards per attempt of anyone in the SEC.

Higher than Chad Kelly?

What about yards per completion, which is the more important stat?

More catchable deep passes is what Mr. Stidham will bring to this team that is so desperately needed.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

52 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Higher than Chad Kelly?

What about yards per completion, which is the more important stat?

More catchable deep passes is what Mr. Stidham will bring to this team that is so desperately needed.

Yes, higher than Chad Kelly (Sean actually bested Kelly in most stats for most of the season, though the eye test easily told you who was the better QB) and yes, yards per completion as well, which is the more important stat, but not the one that tells the story about average length of pass, since the only yards that are counted are the completions.

Stidham not only brings a more refined deep ball, but he's also a more natural runner. Unless Sean improves in the off-season, Jarrett is the better QB, but it's not the huge leap people are making it out to be. Sean is some mechanics refinement and some strength training away from being a top QB... the question is can/will he do what is necessary to be that guy. I think he'll give it all he's got. I also think Stidham will. Stidham has the head start.

[McLoofus 35,182]

On 2/20/2017 at 11:32 PM, passthebiscuits said:

Yeah I'm not being negative, and I have every hope that Stidham will be the guy and the updated O will succeed...but...I'm just so wary on  being too optimistic until I see some improvement on the field.

pragmatism...astigmatism something like that. 

Inuendo, it isn't just an Italian suppository. 

Holy crap, this is a great post. 

[FoundationEagle 637]

On 2/21/2017 at 0:15 AM, Scotty2Hotty said:

When the majority of your passes are <10 yards, your completion percentage increases,

Sw averaged 12.6 yds/completion and was top 30 in the country in yards per attempt (4th in the SEC) and that includes games playing injured and horrendous play calling with terrible wr route trees....

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, FoundationEagle said:

Sw averaged 12.6 yds/completion and was top 30 in the country in yards per attempt (4th in the SEC) and that includes games playing injured and horrendous play calling with terrible wr route trees....

Folks see what they want to see. 

[FoundationEagle 637]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Folks see what they want to see. 

We all do. SW struggled at the true deep pass, but everything short of 30 yards down field he was usually very accurate.  That doesn't imply that Stidham won't win the job and be better, but to completely write off SW as an under 10 yard passer is wholly inaccurate. I would be mildly surprised if SW wins the job, but the difference isn't so stark that it's a foregone conclusion by any means. The main factor at the moment is SWs ability to get reps with a healing arm in a new offense (to an extent) while battling a healthy opponent who is already expected to win the job. It's an uphill battle for him, but he has done it before so I wouldn't be extremely surprised if he started game 1, just mildly.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

49 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Folks see what they want to see. 

Even more these days, folks hear/read something, assume it's gospel truth, and run with it.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

4 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Folks see what they want to see. 

'course, for some of us, it's just the damn' bifocals