Grimes: O-line ready to play like alpha dogs

[abw0004 10,110]

57 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Dye is definitely a full blown negabarner but is also accurate most of the time. Another side effect of the HC doing a mediocre job. 

It's been discussed ad nauseum. We have not recruited OL well as long as Gus has been here. Our guys didn't get good coaching while Hand was here but had we recruited adequately in 2014-15, our guys would have looked much better for most of last year.

Also, notice who our 2 best linemen are. A DL and a transfer. 

Last thing. I was very careful with my verbiage above not to place all the blame at Grimes's or Hand's feet. 

The guy has never once said anything positive about Auburn.  Almost to the point where how he says things reminds me of one of the posters that got banned and it is making question if it is the same person that just created another account with a different email.  How is he accurate if all he says is opinion based posts and nothing of fact?  And what he was facepalming is the correct statement that recruiting and developing are two different things.  We have had a lot of great recruiters come through that couldn't develop at all.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

The guy has never once said anything positive about Auburn. 

Doesn't mean his opinions are incorrect.

Quote

Almost to the point where how he says things reminds me of one of the posters that got banned and it is making question if it is the same person that just created another account with a different email. 

Agreed. Still doesn't mean he's incorrect.

Quote

How is he accurate if all he says is opinion based posts and nothing of fact? 

Grimes did recruit Kim, Harrell and Horton. That is a fact. He's also cited numerous other facts in his posts.

Quote

And what he was facepalming is the correct statement that recruiting and developing are two different things. 

No, this is what he facepalmed:

Quote

So what does the recruiter have to do with the coaching they rec'd from Hand?

That quote is literally saying that recruiting and coaching have *nothing* to do with each other. It's literally saying that it wouldn't have mattered if we were 2 deep with 5* guys across the OL because Hand was the one who actually coached them for 2 years. That is a ridiculous statement. Look at what Hand is doing at Texas. He's not a good coach but he's also not going to just completely ruin talented guys. Look at Braden Smith. High 2nd round pick after 2 years with Hand. 

9 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

We have had a lot of great recruiters come through that couldn't develop at all.

Yep. Pretty much all on one side of the ball. I wonder why that is.

Regardless, it's really, really strange to suggest that Grimes's recruiting during his first stint had nothing to do with how our OL performed under Hand. That exposes a deep, fundamental lack of understanding of how, well, just about any organization works. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Doesn't mean his opinions are incorrect.

Agreed. Still doesn't mean he's incorrect.

Grimes did recruit Kim, Harrell and Horton. That is a fact. He's also cited numerous other facts in his posts.

No, this is what he facepalmed:

That quote is literally saying that recruiting and coaching have *nothing* to do with each other. It's literally saying that it wouldn't have mattered if we were 2 deep with 5* guys across the OL because Hand was the one who actually coached them for 2 years. That is a ridiculous statement. Look at what Hand is doing at Texas. He's not a good coach but he's also not going to just completely ruin talented guys. Look at Braden Smith. High 2nd round pick after 2 years with Hand. 

Yep. Pretty much all on one side of the ball. I wonder why that is.

Regardless, it's really, really strange to suggest that Grimes's recruiting during his first stint had nothing to do with how our OL performed under Hand. That exposes a deep, fundamental lack of understanding of how, well, just about any organization works. 

This right here. Really is strange.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

2 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

This right here. Really is strange.

Let me say this about Grimes and Hand. Both had some kids they wanted to sign on the OL and Gus passed. Hand had two 4*'s he wanted to sign, a OT and a G. Gus passed on both. Pissed Hand off pretty bad. He left shortly after this.

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Let me say this about Grimes and Hand. Both had some kids they wanted to sign on the OL and Gus passed. Hand had two 4*'s he wanted to sign, a OT and a G. Gus passed on both. Pissed Hand off pretty bad. He left shortly after this.

I think this is the part where the Bus riders get indignant and start asking for links. 

[Mikey 16,579]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I think this is the part where the Bus riders get indignant and start asking for links. 

 I don't want a link. It would be interesting to learn the names of these guys Gus passed on, where they ended up and how well they are doing at their chosen school.

[abw0004 10,110]

See below:

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Doesn't mean his opinions are incorrect.

Not saying he is always incorrect all the time.  But he seems to go on every thread to harp on the same thing over and over, sometimes just to ruin the mood, which is exactly why I think this is not his first/main account.

Agreed. Still doesn't mean he's incorrect.

Same as above so I won't beat a dead horse.

Grimes did recruit Kim, Harrell and Horton. That is a fact. He's also cited numerous other facts in his posts.

He did.  I agree with you.  Those may be the most talented OL we currently have minus Tega, and I think Muschamp recruited Tega.

No, this is what he facepalmed:

That quote is literally saying that recruiting and coaching have *nothing* to do with each other. It's literally saying that it wouldn't have mattered if we were 2 deep with 5* guys across the OL because Hand was the one who actually coached them for 2 years. That is a ridiculous statement. Look at what Hand is doing at Texas. He's not a good coach but he's also not going to just completely ruin talented guys. Look at Braden Smith. High 2nd round pick after 2 years with Hand. 

The only rebuttal I will have is the above.  I think we can't judge Hand's time at Texas yet.  Same with at Auburn.  Hand is still running with guys that were recruited and coached by his predecessor.  Same when at Auburn, Braden Smith learned most of what he knows and developed the most under Grimes.  Wait until Hand has his own guys (assuming he doesn't jump ship right before his own guys take over).  And I think Aubie could be right, that with a bad coach it may not have mattered, because the kids could have regressed under a bad coach that instilled bad technique.  It is kind of like our thing where we have a stigma that we recruit elite receivers, but do not prepare them for the NFL.

Yep. Pretty much all on one side of the ball. I wonder why that is.

At one time it was the other side of the ball, particularly linebackers.  I do agree though it is just the offensive side currently.

Regardless, it's really, really strange to suggest that Grimes's recruiting during his first stint had nothing to do with how our OL performed under Hand. That exposes a deep, fundamental lack of understanding of how, well, just about any organization works.

Fair statement.

 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

7 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

See below:

 

Sorry to come off as negative so frequently.  I love AU and know that we can and should be doing better than the mediocrity we've wallowed in under Gus.  I don't think much I post is non-factual and have been quick to acknowledge why I am wrong. 

[abw0004 10,110]

4 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Sorry to come off as negative so frequently.  I love AU and know that we can and should be doing better than the mediocrity we've wallowed in under Gus.  I don't think much I post is non-factual and have been quick to acknowledge why I am wrong. 

No worries.  You will find I am pretty easy to get along with on here, that is why I addressed you in my thread last week and let you explain without any further follow up.  I completely get why you think and say the things you do.  Many on here feel the same way.  I am sure you will make a great poster if you are not in fact one of the two posters that have been banned over the past few months.  Just the initial comments on these threads you make without reasoning behind them can make people feel like you want the worst for Auburn.  I was the same way when I joined, but on the opposite spectrum so I can't fault you for something I did myself.  Just some friendly advice!  

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

No worries.  You will find I am pretty easy to get along with on here, that is why I addressed you in my thread last week and let you explain without any further follow up.  I completely get why you think and say the things you do.  Many on here feel the same way.  I am sure you will make a great poster if you are not in fact one of the two posters that have been banned over the past few months.  Just the initial comments on these threads you make without reasoning behind them can make people feel like you want the worst for Auburn.  I was the same way when I joined, but on the opposite spectrum so I can't fault you for something I did myself.  Just some friendly advice!  

I want the best for Auburn which is why I want Gus gone and think we made a huge blunder not canning him after the 2016 season.  I appreciate you at least being able to look at my point of view and understand where I am coming from.

FWIW, I think Jacobs and Leath hold as much blame as Gus.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, abw0004 said:

I think we can't judge Hand's time at Texas yet.  Same with at Auburn.  Hand is still running with guys that were recruited and coached by his predecessor.  Same when at Auburn, Braden Smith learned most of what he knows and developed the most under Grimes.  Wait until Hand has his own guys (assuming he doesn't jump ship right before his own guys take over).  And I think Aubie could be right, that with a bad coach it may not have mattered, because the kids could have regressed under a bad coach that instilled bad technique.  It is kind of like our thing where we have a stigma that we recruit elite receivers, but do not prepare them for the NFL.

Re: Smith- 26 games with 14 starts under Grimes. 27 games with 27 starts under Hand. Second team All-American in 2016 and first team All-American in 2017, both under Hand.

And for the most part, you're supporting @dyehardfanAU's point and shooting down Aubie's. If Hand is succeeding with another guy's players at Texas, then he probably didn't ruin another guy's players at Auburn. He was clearly good for Braden Smith's career. He had to play Austin Golson- a transfer himself- in every spot on the line because of depth issues and Golson was serviceable at all of them. He turned Tega- another guy who moved over from elsewhere- into a serviceable tackle who, unlike every other player on the line, started out 2018 as a better-than-serviceable tackle. Our next best player on the line is Driscoll, another transfer. These are the guys that Sharp- Grimes's big tackle signing- is backing up. The Dunn kid- guess what, another transfer- played pretty well at center in 2017. Certainly much better than either of our guys last year, including Kim, who was a Grimes recruit.

That all said, Grimes had a mess to clean up. And he didn't get much help from further up the chain, because that was a mess, too. But if we had adequately stocked the cupboard in the 2014-2015 cycles, I don't think last year would've been nearly as bad. And we wouldn't be one injury away from abject disaster this year. 

(Receivers are different. They can only run the routes they're given, and they can only catch the balls that are thrown to them. That's why Auburn receivers have a well-earned stigma. Davis and Slayton had to explain why they never caught a ball in the middle of the field at Auburn and how that's not going to prevent them from being effective in the NFL.

Hunter Renfrow was drafted and Ryan Davis wasn't. Probably not because of Renfrow's 4.59 40.)

 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Re: Smith- 26 games with 14 starts under Grimes. 27 games with 27 starts under Hand. Second team All-American in 2016 and first team All-American in 2017, both under Hand.

And for the most part, you're supporting @dyehardfanAU's point and shooting down Aubie's. If Hand is succeeding with another guy's players at Texas, then he probably didn't ruin another guy's players at Auburn. He was clearly good for Braden Smith's career. He had to play Austin Golson- a transfer himself- in every spot on the line because of depth issues and Golson was serviceable at all of them. He turned Tega- another guy who moved over from elsewhere- into a serviceable tackle who, unlike every other player on the line, started out 2019 as a better-than-serviceable tackle. Our next best player on the line is Driscoll, another transfer. These are the guys that Sharp- Grimes's big tackle signing- is backing up. The Dunn kid- guess what, another transfer- played pretty well at center in 2017. Certainly much better than either of our guys last year, including Kim, who was a Grimes recruit.

That all said, Grimes had a mess to clean up. And he didn't get much help from further up the chain, because that was a mess, too. But if we had adequately stocked the cupboard in the 2014-2015 cycles, I don't think last year would've been nearly as bad. And we wouldn't be one injury away from abject disaster this year. 

(Receivers are different. They can only run the routes they're given, and they can only catch the balls that are thrown to them. That's why Auburn receivers have a well-earned stigma. Davis and Slayton had to explain why they never caught a ball in the middle of the field at Auburn and how that's not going to prevent them from being effective in the NFL.

Hunter Renfrow was drafted and Ryan Davis wasn't. Probably not because of Renfrow's 4.59 40.)

 

Well said.  Hand is a much better OL coach than CJBG and would still be here if Gus had a clue about what he was doing.  Thanks for the defense earlier as well.  I try to pull together as many facts as I can and form my opinion based on all arguments.  Unfortunately I have not seen a good defense of the upcoming season, Gus ability to run a program, or having an effective recruiting strategy.  I'm not much of a rah rah guy, it's not my nature to react on emotion.  Feed me positive data and I'll gladly listen.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Well said.  Hand is a much better OL coach than CJBG and would still be here if Gus had a clue about what he was doing.  Thanks for the defense earlier as well.  I try to pull together as many facts as I can and form my opinion based on all arguments.  Unfortunately I have not seen a good defense of the upcoming season, Gus ability to run a program, or having an effective recruiting strategy.  I'm not much of a rah rah guy, it's not my nature to react on emotion.  Feed me positive data and I'll gladly listen.

I don't know if everything you post is accurate or warranted, but unfortunately for all of us, your takes are more objective than the ones that typically contradict you. And I've yet to see you attack players or fellow posters, again unlike many of those who object to your content. 

I will always endeavor to defend sound logic and reason. That's mostly what you provide, as far as I can tell. When the logic and reason itself becomes more pleasant, I'm sure your posts- and mine, and those of many others mislabeled as "haters- will, too. 

ABW mentioned a couple others. They went by Thrust something and Liger. They were entertaining for half a beat and then they were gone. Actual trolls don't tend to get what they're looking for here. 

 

[cole256 17,051]

I feel like the roll of the 🎲 gamble with Jackson moving to ol is going to be pretty important. Really need a hit on this one

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

I don't know if everything you post is accurate or warranted, but unfortunately for all of us, your takes are more objective than the ones that typically contradict you. And I've yet to see you attack players or fellow posters, again unlike many of those who object to your content. 

I will always endeavor to defend sound logic and reason. That's mostly what you provide, as far as I can tell. When the logic and reason itself becomes more pleasant, I'm sure your posts- and mine, and those of many others mislabeled as "haters- will, too. 

ABW mentioned a couple others. They went by Thrust something and Liger. They were entertaining for half a beat and then they were gone. Actual trolls don't tend to get what they're looking for here. 

 

I'm quite the peach over on the basketball board, fwiw.  😃

Also, you'll never see me attack a player.  I might not have as high of opinion as some on guys but anyone who fights like hell for my entertainment is good in my book.

 

[cole256 17,051]

How are we coming to the conclusion hand is a better coach than grimes?

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

I'm quite the peach over on the basketball board, fwiw.  😃

Also, you'll never see me attack a player.  I might not have as high of opinion as some on guys but anyone who fights like hell for my entertainment is good in my book.

Maaaaaaaaaaan, it's cool to have a cool coach. He could be much less successful and still be worth celebrating every day. Tubs was the last coach of the big 2 sports that I could have pictured myself having a beer with. 

[ellitor 33,091]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

I feel like the roll of the 🎲 gamble with Jackson moving to ol is going to be pretty important. Really need a hit on this one

With due respect it's not a gamble. He was nowhere near getting in the rotation on the DL so might as well see if he can do something at OT. I agree though the move is important.

[ellitor 33,091]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

How are we coming to the conclusion hand is a better coach than grimes?

It's got to be from al those great blocking OLs he has had everywhere he has been. For those not sure...

[abw0004 10,110]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

And for the most part, you're supporting @dyehardfanAU's point and shooting down Aubie's. If Hand is succeeding with another guy's players at Texas, then he probably didn't ruin another guy's players at Auburn. He was clearly good for Braden Smith's career. He had to play Austin Golson- a transfer himself- in every spot on the line because of depth issues and Golson was serviceable at all of them. He turned Tega- another guy who moved over from elsewhere- into a serviceable tackle who, unlike every other player on the line, started out 2018 as a better-than-serviceable tackle. Our next best player on the line is Driscoll, another transfer. These are the guys that Sharp- Grimes's big tackle signing- is backing up. The Dunn kid- guess what, another transfer- played pretty well at center in 2017. Certainly much better than either of our guys last year, including Kim, who was a Grimes recruit.

I do agree with what you are saying, but on this point we will have to agree to disagree.  He definitely didn’t hurt the players, but didn’t help them either. To over-dramatically illustrate it, he could basically have been in a corner posting up in a chair saying “Just do what Grimes told you to do.”  I could be dead wrong.  I think this upcoming season with prove or falsify what I think though.

And I was trying not to mention those posters just to not call anyone out, but since it’s out in the air it’s those two I was talking about.    

[cole256 17,051]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

With due respect it's not a gamble. He was nowhere near getting in the rotation on the DL so might as well see if he can do something at OT. I agree though the move is important.

I feel you, I may not have worded it right but as far as gamble I'm talking about us trying to find a big time tackle from a different position other than o line again 

[auburnphan 6,050]

On 5/14/2019 at 12:17 PM, ellitor said:

It's got to be from al those great blocking OLs he has had everywhere he has been. For those not sure...

I think the grimes we hired 3 grimes ago for o-line coach was by far the superior coach.  We have hired mediocre coaches since him.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

9 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

I think the grimes we hired 3 grimes ago for o-line coach was by far the superior coach.  We have hired mediocre coaches since him.

He was a better recruiter by leaps and bounds and a good enough coach.  I didn't realize he got an OC gig this past year with BYU.

[James Howell 80]

On 5/10/2019 at 9:47 AM, aubiefifty said:

247sports.com

J.B. Grimes: Auburn offensive line ready to play like alpha dogs

ByBrandon Marcello

5-6 minutes

SCOTTSBORO, Alabama — J.B. Grimes is not going to blow smoke screens to hide what’s happening on the field and in the offensive line’s meeting room at Auburn.

He said it in May of 2018 when he knew he didn’t quite know who would be starters, and whether they were ready to play in the SEC, let alone in the season opener against top-10 Washington.

“I knew it was going to take a while,” the veteran offensive line coach said Thursday. “When we played Washington, I really didn’t know what we were going to get.”

Slowly and surely, however, the offensive line improved. The Tigers failed to produce a 1,000-yard rusher for the first time in a decade. Injuries at both guard spots, along with flipping and switching of Kaleb Kim and Nick Brahms as starters at center because of injuries didn’t help matters.

But then Kim got healthy, and five players started to click along the offensive line.

“It actually took a little longer for me to get those guys playing as a cohesive unit, but around Game 7 we started playing pretty well and we had great carryover in the spring,” Grimes said before speaking to the Jackson County Auburn Club. “I thought those guys competed well and obviously every day we’re going against a very, very good defensive line — one of the best, if not the best, in the country. I’ll be honest with you: I felt like we held our own. We’ve gotten better.”

Simply put, a year under Grimes has made a heck of a difference. All five starters return along the offensive line, with one player he believes could be a first-round selection (left tackle Prince Tega Wanogho Jr.) leading the group. Facing off against one of the better defensive lines in the country has proven to be difficult and the ultimate learning experience.

“The biggest thing is the cohesiveness of the unit,” Grimes said. “We know we clearly have five starters right now and those guys take a lot of pride In knowing that. It’s clear and present. We know who the five starters are, and they take a lot of pride in the fact that, hey, we’re gonna line up, and guess what? We’re on scholarship, too. I know how it is out there when you have a bunch of alpha dogs on defense. They’re gonna try to go to the bathroom on every fire hydrant in town. The deal with me is, as far as being a line coach, you know what? We have some alpha dogs on our side of the ball, too, and we’re gonna play that way.”

Grimes believes three other players have a shot at making the NFL after the upcoming season: guard Marquel Harrell and Mike Horton, and right tackle Jack Driscoll.

Grimes is in the second year of his second stint coaching Auburn’s offensive line after leading the unit during Gus Malzahn’s first three seasons as the head coach (2013-15). The group was labeled as the strength of the offense by Malzahn after spring practices, a sentiment since echoed by offensive coordinator Kenny Dillingham.

“Of course, from this time last year, it’s like night and day — and it should be,” Malzahn said. “They’re all back. Chemistry is extremely good. It really gave us a chance to be a lot more aggressive and do some different things and try some different things up front (in the spring).”

“I really like this offensive line, now,” Grimes said. “The guy that really kind of stepped forward in my mind, especially from a leadership standpoint and directing our offensive line and being vocal was Kaleb Kim. He stepped up and had a really good spring.”

Kim was benched early in the season due to injury, but returned to the lineup in late 2018. The Tigers’ offense improved, and Grimes knew one thing from that moment forward in late 2018: he wasn’t messing with his starters.

“We’re settled in,” Grimes said. “We have anointed Kaleb Kim. He is the guy. And we’ve told him that. You know what, that probably helped his confidence, it helped his leadership, being vocal and directing us. I was really proud of him in the spring.”

*** Get 30% off as a subscriber to get the latest Auburn recruiting and team scoops ***

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Auburn rushed for 100 yards or more in each of its last four games, the best stretch of the season. For a time, it seemed like Auburn was finally back in its run, play-action groove. Auburn rushed for only 167.5 yards per game, which ranked 10th in the SEC for the season. It was the worst average of Malzahn’s tenure as head coach.

The question now is whether Auburn can return to rushing for 250-plus yards per game, a staple under Malzahn. The Tigers have ranked in the top half of the league in every season but 2018 under Malzahn. They have led the SEC twice and the country once during that time, too.

28COMMENTS

Might Auburn be on track to return to the past? The schedule and opposing defensive lines will be difficult in the fall.

“But I think we could be one of those that could be in the top two or three in the league in rushing,” Grimes said.

">247Sports

Grimes, talk is cheap.  Let their play on the field do the talking.  Every year by this coaching staff; this is the best offensive line since I have been here.

[abw0004 10,110]

On 5/18/2019 at 7:19 PM, James Howell said:

Grimes, talk is cheap.  Let their play on the field do the talking.  Every year by this coaching staff; this is the best offensive line since I have been here.

To be fair, Grimes did say last spring the line was struggling.