Patriotism 101: Required Reading

[Bottomfeeder 244]

My question is, "Why can't the conservative voters in Alabama admit they were duped and go on?" I'm sorry this so-called conservative pResident has not met the expectations of even the most independent democrats and right-wing conservatives in Washington D.C. So, let's get past this and find a cure for this desease we call "tyranny" (oops, I mean "fascism").

Some of your name calling is a sure sign of lacking vocabulary by those so lucky enough to have afforded to finish college. Futhermore, this behavior shows a lacking in the current state run educational system of Alabama. Which, might I add, overall is ranked one of the lowest in the nation (well, Birmingham, Al. has one ranked #4; Alabama School of Fine Arts ).

While living in Naperville, Illinois, I noticed their middle schools have huge computer labs that simulate robots, plastic mold injection, other plant equipment operations. While our computer labs do what? What do they do in middle school computer labs here? Because I don't know.

I, truly, believe an Illinois high school graduate could CLEP an Auburn University Genreal Studies four years of college. Shoot, one, or more, of them might be able to CLEP an Engineering degree from Auburn University or the University of Alabama. I would not doubt it in the least. There my be a high school graduate here in Alabama that could do it. Practically, anything is possible.

But back to patriotism:

"The current president, George Bush, lectures Americans almost nonstop about being patriotic in the sense that they should make sacrifices and give service to their country (as if they are not already tax serfs) by helping to alleviate both domestic and foreign problems, mainly by spending more money on domestic programs and spending more money on foreign adventures and sending more troops to die in far-off lands, all in the name of spreading freedom and democracy. Many Americans have been taken in by the false notion of patriotism put forward by George W. Bush and his minions. Those that have opposed Bush and his Administration on their domestic and war policies have been dubbed "unpatriotic," as if blind obedience to a sitting president in an undeclared war is required in the Constitution."

From reading this forum, it seems everyone here has their own definition for "patriotism."

Well, let's clarify things before we proceed. First of alll, the definition clearly state support for country. Okay. While that seems easy to do, it creates a conlfict of interest with me when the policies of an administration are not inline with the foundations of our Constitutional Republic. To support the country does not necessarily mean supporting a presidential administration, now does it?

"The principle of limited federal authority is the bedrock principle upon which our government was created. America's founders envisioned a nation of strong, independent but united states, and a very limited and myopic central system."

Trading A Constitutional Republic For Big Brother By Chuck Baldwin

Here are some more definitions of the word "patriotism."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-...G=Google+Search

patriotism

– Virtuous citizens display a devotion to their country in words and deeds, including devotion to the fundamental values and principles upon which it depends

http://www.whitehall.k12.mi.us/curriculum/...saryofterms.htm

Definitions of myopic on the Web:

unable to see distant objects clearly

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

lacking foresight or scope; "a short view of the problem"; "shortsighted policies"; "shortsighted critics derided the plan"; "myopic thinking"

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

And, if further clarification is needed please consult the Dean of Admissions at the nearest four year college.

[AUloggerhead 2,229]

... I, truly, believe an Illinois high school graduate could CLEP an Auburn University Genreal Studies four years of college. Shoot, one, or more, of them might be able to CLEP an Engineering degree from Auburn University or the University of Alabama. I would not doubt it in the least. There my be a high school graduate here in Alabama that could do it. Practically, anything is possible. ...

Well, if you truly believe that ... then you're an idiot. The College Level Examination Program (CLEP) are tests designed to demonstrate mastery of undergraduate courses, generally of the freshman year kind: basic math, sciences, social studies & English. I know this from personal experience. Because of my CLEP scores, AU gave me credit for 3 quarters (an entire year) of World History. They refused my English CLEP scores -- not because they weren't high enough but because it was the English Dept's policy to require all students complete freshman English, regardless. I ran into the same policy with my math & science scores. The only other CLEP tests AU would have accepted were in the humanities field which, I happened to not take.

I know of no way for anyone to 'CLEP' their way to a degree either in AL, IL or any other state. Perhaps some institutions might award a degree based on examinations only but, you can't get there from here using the CLEP route. Thought you might like to know.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

... I, truly, believe an Illinois high school graduate could CLEP an Auburn University Genreal Studies four years of college. Shoot, one, or more, of them might be able to CLEP an Engineering degree from Auburn University or the University of Alabama. I would not doubt it in the least. There my be a high school graduate here in Alabama that could do it. Practically, anything is possible.  ...

Well, if you truly believe that ... then you're an idiot. The College Level Examination Program (CLEP) are tests designed to demonstrate mastery of undergraduate courses, generally of the freshman year kind: basic math, sciences, social studies & English. I know this from personal experience. Because of my CLEP scores, AU gave me credit for 3 quarters (an entire year) of World History. They refused my English CLEP scores -- not because they weren't high enough but because it was the English Dept's policy to require all students complete freshman English, regardless. I ran into the same policy with my math & science scores. The only other CLEP tests AU would have accepted were in the humanities field which, I happened to not take.

I know of no way for anyone to 'CLEP' their way to a degree either in AL, IL or any other state. Perhaps some institutions might award a degree based on examinations only but, you can't get there from here using the CLEP route. Thought you might like to know.

I know this. Just putting it out there for a slider. What I do know is that the University of Alabama did allow students to not attend classes and challenge the final exam for that semester's grade. Then there is the other method of obtaining engineering status, that being the State Licensing Board. Take the exam. Forget about all of that money wasted in school, just take the PE exam. More and more engineering responsibilities are put on the workers anyway, so why not be an engineer with all of the AutoCad 2000 programs doing the majority of the work anyway, why not? I'll tell you why not, because of outsourcing. The Reddots and Pakistanis are working for less now-a-days, so I would not touch it with a ten foot pole.

[bigsixfive 327]

More and more engineering responsibilities are put on the workers anyway, so why not be an engineer with all of the AutoCad 2000 programs doing the majority of the work anyway

This is the most ignorant comment I've heard this week I think. Do you have any clue what an engineer does? AutoCad, Microstations, ProE, and Solid Edge are design tools. They don't come up with ideas on their own. Yes, they do math as well. Very, very computationally intensive math that often involves matricies with dimensions in the thousands, matricies within matricies, highly nonlinear equations, simulations with many iterations, etc. A team of engineers couldn't crank these computations out in a lifetime, so tools are used to speed things up. Do you know anyone who has passed the PE without years of in the field experience? The quick route is to go to college, trust me. Quit speaking on emotion based on your hatred of Alabama. No one asked you to be here.

[TexasTiger 12,851]

What do they do in middle school computer labs here?

Post on War Eagle Nation?

[AUloggerhead 2,229]

What I do know is that the University of Alabama did allow students to not attend classes and challenge the final exam for that semester's grade.

It might help your argument if you could provide some proof of this happening. I don't know if it is or not but I would seriously doubt that this is an accepted practice across the entire university. Maybe for crip courses or maybe for the scholarship football & basketball players ( that's to BG & the others.) Your sweeping generalizations about the state of education in AL based on a number of percieved anecdotes just make you look silly.

Then there is the other method of obtaining engineering status, that being the State Licensing Board. Take the exam. Forget about all of that money wasted in school, just take the PE exam.

bigsixfive addressed your looney ideas about using software. I'll speak to the part about "just taking the PE exam." Man, congratulations ... you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Before you can even sit for the exam, you have to apply to take it. If your application doesn't satisfy the State Board with respect to work history & educational background you don't get to even take the exam. You need 5 yrs of documented work experience (under supervision of another PE) and you need to supply official transcripts from an accredited university showing that you've passed a 4 or 5 -yr engineering curriculum. The exam is rigourous -- 4 hrs in the am & 4 hrs in the pm. The exam questions are all written by other PEs. You will not pass it by just showing up. It requires extensive preparation & study. Again, ... personal experience.

AUloggerhead, PE

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Thanks for the insight "bigsixfive" and "AUloggerhead." I did not realize that so much went into being a PE. Wow. So how is it that they are outsourcing engineering jobs? Are they doing it to provide needed help in the field, or to cut costs? And, about the UA class thing, I knew someone who actually attended UA and told me about the final exam option. Whether or not it is still in practice is the unanswered question?

[bigsixfive 327]

Thanks for the insight "bigsixfive" and "AUloggerhead." I did not realize that so much went into being a PE. Wow. So how is it that they are outsourcing engineering jobs? Are they doing it to provide needed help in the field, or to cut costs? And, about the UA class thing, I knew someone who actually attended UA and told me about the final exam option. Whether or not it is still in practice is the unanswered question?

At the school I attended before transferring here, I have heard of students being able to take the final and pretty much clep the class. However, that was very seldom and it was not a university policy. It was offered by teachers in low level, gen ed courses. When students did take it, their exam went before a committee of other professors in that department, and there had to be a unanimous vote to let the student pass. These practices were not offered in any sophomore level class or above. English Comp 1 is the only one that I recall actually being able to do this... However, my point on the issue is that you can't walk in a Quantum Physics class the first day and take the final.

If you look at the engineering jobs being outsourced, you will find a large percentage of them being software engineers. They simply work for less American money. They still get quite a bit in terms of their dollar. Another reason is moving plant operations overseas. Its cheaper and easier to hire a local engineer than it is to move an American engineer. R&D operations however, I have not seen outsourced as much. Those jobs tend to stay here because that is where the technology is.

Engineering is a very broad field that encompasses many aspects of a company. I'll break it down into 3 types, but keep in mind there are many more. These are very very general.

There are engineers that run the plant (which separates into another large category, but I'm keeping it short). This consists of usually overseeing a team of employees that maintain, install, and improve the facility. I'm pretty sure these are the main ones being outsourced, due to the reason I stated previously, cheaper and easier to hire a local.

Engineers that have moved into the business department handle financial responsibilities. Their technical background gives them the insight to make good decisions because they know the intricacies of the plant.

Research and development engineers do just that. They come up with an idea, address its feasibility, then test it. Without these, you'd still be driving a 1940s style car. Missles used in the recent war wouldn't have 2cm accuracy. GPS wouldn't exist, and so on...

I'm curious. Maybe I misread something or I am misinterpreting something, but what does outsourcing have to do with the quality of education? Walk around a college campus one day, you will immediately notice a very diverse blend of students. They don't come to the US for a 4-6 year vacation, they come because that is where the best schools are.

The public education system is not good in Alabama. There are a number of private schools all over the state that provide an education that is more on par. These are not colleges though. AU and UA are good schools, each in their own respects. I think its somewhat dumb to compare universities overall because that is comparing apples to oranges. Compare individual colleges. AU has a good engineering program that is flirting on being great, the original wireless engineering program (now its one of 3), a great architecture school, one of the top interior architecture schools, great vet school, and a good business school. To say the education system in Alabama is poor and to include universitys is an incorrect statement.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Research and development engineers do just that.  They come up with an idea, address its feasibility, then test it.  Without these, you'd still be driving a 1940s style car.  Missles used in the recent war wouldn't have 2cm accuracy.  GPS wouldn't exist, and so on...

Thanks again,

I appreciate your time. The R&D area is where I wish to enter.

I picked up this software from an engineer in Chicagoland area about a year ago. It's really interesting.

http://www.softwire.com/Examples/qtexample...recNum=54&ID=15

[bigsixfive 327]

What is it? It appears to be a circuit simulator, where you can build and test a component electronically and see what it does before its actually built. Auburn has liscenses to PSpice and OrCAD, which I believe do similar things if you want to go tool around with them. I've had some experience with OrCAD, but it was for circuit layout and not design.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

What is it?  It appears to be a circuit simulator, where you can build and test a component electronically and see what it does before its actually built.  Auburn has liscenses to PSpice and OrCAD, which I believe do similar things if you want to go tool around with them.  I've had some experience with OrCAD, but it was for circuit layout and not design.

It's for design and simulating the process before you ever actually use it on the process. Pretty Cool app., Huh? You can tweak instruments, change process variables, etc. It's So cool. They have all of the digital to analog equipment, which can also be purchased elsewhere, but the have they complete package. And if you go to their website at http://www.softwire.com, I believe they have tools for the kids, too.

Anyway. The other day while job hunting I came across a warehouse with some prototype construction going on. It turned out to be a prototype for a hydrogen/oxygen extraction unit from H2O to use the gases for keeping bio-fuels lit during a oxygenating process the bio-fuels have to go through. The brainchild behind the technology (hydrogen/oxygen extraction unit) is a South African Theoretical Physicist. The company doesn't really exist yet, but will be named "Dual Metric CT Inc."

Combustion Tech.

Here is a website that might explain things better than I.

http://www.associatedphysics.com

Click Here:

In the News

DualMetric CT Inc. starts construction on 25MmBtus per hour Industrial Rotary Hydrogen Burner. Learn more at DualMetric CT Inc.

http://associatedphysics.com/DM/index.htm

The Patent Attorney/Chemical Engineer I spoke with that day was a real hands on guy. They had several instruments on this below scale model and will be needing people in the, not too distant, future (techs.). The company will never go public and this would be a ground floor opportunity. Here give him a call when you get a chance:

Law Offices Of Mark O. Loftin, P.C.

Attorney-At-Law

Registered Patent Attorney

Cellular 251-454-6787

email: moloftin@comcast.net

address:

2370 Hillcrest Rd. Suite G#317

Mobile, Alabama

36695

WAR EAGLE and GOOD LUCK,

BF

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Tom Friedman says that "GREEN" is the new "Red, White and Blue."

He stated that if we don't invest in green technology that China will eat our lunch (clean our clock). That China will go green because the can't breathe, their water is polluted and the work force gets sick because of this.

BF - Without a workforce there is no need for government.

How could this work in the real world?

"Take company ABC down the road, here," says Deon. "They have two 25 Mmbtu boilers which cost a little bit more than $100,000 each, per month to run on natural gas. That's a lot of money. This is the type of company that can he helped by way of these kinds of systems.

"The first thing is ABC will keep their boilers and their natural gas lime. What will happen is, after they install (our) system and connect it to their boilers, they'll have choices. Diversity in feedstock relates to choices in energy, and those choices will save them so much money they'll have no choice but to be happy."

The boiler's burner would be replaced with a Rotary Hydrogen Burner.

Billy Hopper explains: "The RHB alone already allows for the boiler to make use of non-conventional fuels such as raw vegetable oil. In the ease of raw oils, which are usually co-fired with natural gas, the system saves money by not having to pre-heat the raw oils, and by being able to use the raw oil to its full potential without having to co-fire it with a fossil based fuel."

The RHB makes use of only a small amount of hydrogen to simulate the correct co-fire environment, and liberates said gas by way of incorporated subsystems.

"When the RHB is coupled to a gasifier such as our Test Bed unit," continues Deon, "it literally becomes the epitome of both diversity and choice. The system can now make use of solids, liquids and gaseous forms of fuel."

As a result, the ABC company may be situated in the middle of a cotton growing area and as such would want to take advantage of cotton stalks when picking season starts. Juvenile pine may be the logistical choice for other areas, or even chicken litter. Diversity in feedstock is the key, says Deon.

Microwave induced plasma gasification, a subsystem to the Test Bed gasifier, also allows for waste stream feedstock (such as sawdust) and non-sorted municipal solid waste to be used.

http://www.utexas.edu/centers/nfic/natnews...004.nat.htm#THE AMAZING, TRASH-EATING MACHINE