Phillip Marshall - Troubled Times

[WarEagle10 77]

Phillip is as good a sportswriter as there is IMO. Just another GREAT read from him. Thanks for that link!

[The SandMntTiger 9]

Comment by JCooley

The speed in which technology is changing the way we are communicating with one another is astounding. While growing up and being educated in Alabama (1950's), football was just a diversion, albeit an important diversion. Reading the Sunday morning newspaper (The Birmingham News) was a weekly ritual. We got our stories through very professional filters, particularly Benny Marshall and some others. Now, there are "no filters" and we're getting bombarded every day with fringe demagogues whose sole purpose is to rant about their sports theology and denigrate the opposition, particularly when it comes to football....Alabama football. Most likely, these idiots are not remotely associated (alumni nor significant contributors) with the universities for which they profess their love and devotion. They attach their life's meaning and self worth with "their" team, where "feeling good" at all cost becomes their mantra. The internet is their conduit for self fulfillment and when things aren't going well, whatever restores their sense of well being, we're going to hear. Never mind the truth or any sense of balance; let's make stuff up and see what sticks (and absorb the fifteen minutes of fame). The fringe group has always been there, it's just that there were filters in place so their message never migrated. So, how do you stop this destructive train wreck from happening? It's difficult, but, identify the fringe parties, isolate them, don't read or buy their theology, boycott their sponsors and never remain silent. End Quote...

This gentleman JCooley nails the underlying condition engendering the entire environment...

Phillip brings about very astute points and his concerns about the toxicity of the climate are very real.

Boycott from the fray, as pointed out by JCooley, from the more temperate and imperturable, while still engaging the irrational lunatic fringe with intelligent and balanced thought and speech is the most useful tool we have.

Please note reply #19 in the thread "Why give them the satisfaction" started by Big Bird to see some of my thoughts on this matter.

I agree with the author's take on the current situation. As AU fans, we seem to be somewhat at a crossroads of what to do and how to handle this new "social media, blogging, etc" world. We have been attacked relentlessly by numerous types of media outlets. We understand the driving force behind the veracity and longevity of the attacks is a similar size institution in the state with an ABNORMALLY large fringe of lunatics (to the point it is not as much of a fringe as a base) who do tie their selfworth to the institution's football team. This fringe/base is bad for college sports in general and the SEC in particular and doublely or triplely so for AU. However, the problem is what can be done about it? Can they be ignored until they quieten down? It appears they cannot as their obsession, hatred, and above all insecurity runs way too deep. If they cannot be ignored (which is the conclusion I have come to), they must be dealt with. The only solution I can see in all honesty is to cause harm to the program they follow so they see the end result of the course of action they have taken and the response they have literally forced. The situation is a slippery slope that quite frankly "sucks".

Again, what do you do? Do you just turn the other cheek and take it because you are smarter than the annoying thorn in your side that is has become infected? You can see (with the clarity they cannot because frankly they are not very intelligent) the end game which results in both programs becoming lesser programs in many ways. Public perception, national scrutiny, and eventually sanctions and probation. We have tried that many times and it has not been working for a very long time now. Not just with Cam, but all the way back to the late 1950's when Alabama coaches played a key role in our second probation. Then again under Bryant. Finally Ramsey got us on probation with help and support from the Alabama media and attorneys. We had enough at that point and returned the favor with Gene Jelks. That is the course the current situation is heading again (IMO).

Solid post on both accounts. The one thing I will add is, if you notice, after the Jelks saga the Updykes pretty much left us alone for the next 17 years. JMHO and I've said it more than once, whats the best way to deal with a bully? Hit them right back in the nose. When you do 9 times out of 10 they decide they don't want to fight no more. If you also notice, after the T-Town Menware was brought to light, there is starting to be more and more post by the Upykes claiming how rediculous it is for the 2 fanbases to go back and forth like they are. I sure didn't see many of those before that story was broke.

[BirdofPrey76 0]

Comment by JCooley

The speed in which technology is changing the way we are communicating with one another is astounding. While growing up and being educated in Alabama (1950's), football was just a diversion, albeit an important diversion. Reading the Sunday morning newspaper (The Birmingham News) was a weekly ritual. We got our stories through very professional filters, particularly Benny Marshall and some others. Now, there are "no filters" and we're getting bombarded every day with fringe demagogues whose sole purpose is to rant about their sports theology and denigrate the opposition, particularly when it comes to football....Alabama football. Most likely, these idiots are not remotely associated (alumni nor significant contributors) with the universities for which they profess their love and devotion. They attach their life's meaning and self worth with "their" team, where "feeling good" at all cost becomes their mantra. The internet is their conduit for self fulfillment and when things aren't going well, whatever restores their sense of well being, we're going to hear. Never mind the truth or any sense of balance; let's make stuff up and see what sticks (and absorb the fifteen minutes of fame). The fringe group has always been there, it's just that there were filters in place so their message never migrated. So, how do you stop this destructive train wreck from happening? It's difficult, but, identify the fringe parties, isolate them, don't read or buy their theology, boycott their sponsors and never remain silent. End Quote...

This gentleman JCooley nails the underlying condition engendering the entire environment...

Phillip brings about very astute points and his concerns about the toxicity of the climate are very real.

Boycott from the fray, as pointed out by JCooley, from the more temperate and imperturable, while still engaging the irrational lunatic fringe with intelligent and balanced thought and speech is the most useful tool we have.

Please note reply #19 in the thread "Why give them the satisfaction" started by Big Bird to see some of my thoughts on this matter.

I agree with the author's take on the current situation. As AU fans, we seem to be somewhat at a crossroads of what to do and how to handle this new "social media, blogging, etc" world. We have been attacked relentlessly by numerous types of media outlets. We understand the driving force behind the veracity and longevity of the attacks is a similar size institution in the state with an ABNORMALLY large fringe of lunatics (to the point it is not as much of a fringe as a base) who do tie their selfworth to the institution's football team. This fringe/base is bad for college sports in general and the SEC in particular and doublely or triplely so for AU. However, the problem is what can be done about it? Can they be ignored until they quieten down? It appears they cannot as their obsession, hatred, and above all insecurity runs way too deep. If they cannot be ignored (which is the conclusion I have come to), they must be dealt with. The only solution I can see in all honesty is to cause harm to the program they follow so they see the end result of the course of action they have taken and the response they have literally forced. The situation is a slippery slope that quite frankly "sucks".

Again, what do you do? Do you just turn the other cheek and take it because you are smarter than the annoying thorn in your side that is has become infected? You can see (with the clarity they cannot because frankly they are not very intelligent) the end game which results in both programs becoming lesser programs in many ways. Public perception, national scrutiny, and eventually sanctions and probation. We have tried that many times and it has not been working for a very long time now. Not just with Cam, but all the way back to the late 1950's when Alabama coaches played a key role in our second probation. Then again under Bryant. Finally Ramsey got us on probation with help and support from the Alabama media and attorneys. We had enough at that point and returned the favor with Gene Jelks. That is the course the current situation is heading again (IMO).

I agree, but sadly the bammer lunatic fringe seems to have become their base, their mainstream. We must guard against this happening to us as we react to their asininity.   

[HardcoreAU79 0]

A whole lot of common sense, airing of the facts  and discussion has come about on this thread.

Like Tiger in Miami, I too lived out of state for ten years and could dislike them less from a distance. But up close and personal they are an out of control bunch of  childish idiots capble of great harm.  I always claimed, tongue in check, our rivalry was like the Middle East but with out the luv.   Our NC and Harvey changed things and their actions have sunk to a new low.  I will no longer shake my head @ their stupidity and suffer  those fools in silence.

As to the point made about getting their attention, I have a first hand example of it working.

One of my Bamr friends and I have a very spirited back and forth on the subject of our two schools.  After a particularly vicious set of comments about Pawwl and Danny S. (to which Puhleeze was my response), it was dead quiet after I sent him a link on T-town Menswear.  He might have taken a long lunch .........

I think the decent  Alabama Alums,  are mortified by Harvey and the antiics of their SWAA.   But it  their SWAA and fellow traveler lunitic inmates   who are now  running the asylum.  While I'd like to

treat an old rival with respect, I believe they need to be introduced to the fact we will stand up for our school and if it harms theirs in the process, be prepared because we need to do what is necessary to stop this.

[rockfordpi 91]

I also agree with Phillip, but during Bammers National Title run year before last, Auburn fans were not dragging them through the mud. We were watching football and pulling for our team to win if not then we just waited for the next game to be played. See thats how Auburn fans are. We do not walk around like we should have a monopoly on college football, like the Bammers do and always have. Auburn people can handle the Bammers having a good year every now and then, but they can not. If the Auburn vs Alabama or SEC gets hurt by stuff it will be at the hands of the Bammers point blank. WAR EAGLE!!!!!

To say that some AU people were not dragging UAT through the mud is not exactly correct. While I will not even try to guess "who started it" or who escalated it, right or wrong, we had some people circulating "the packet" about what allegedly happened in Gadsden, to every media outlet in the state before Cam ever arrived at AU.

I am not saying that is wrong, not saying they have not done the same or worse. However, I agree with a lot of what PM wrote.  If this keeps up, regardless of who is at fault, we will end up destroying each other. We will end up much like the old southwest conference.

It may very well already be unavoidable at this point; I am certainly not in any way advocating unilateral disarmament and you can’t put the Jeannie back in the bottle.

I think the best hope is for the head coaches to be more outspoken to their fan bases as they have recently.  Though now illegal under NCAA rules, back in the old days (prior to Bill Curry and Donald Watkins) the programs had a gentleman’s agreement where if there were a problem, the head coaches would call each other and work it out amongst themselves prior to going to the NCAA.  Of course now it is a violation NOT to report an infraction to the NCAA.

It is a shame ALL the fans can’t act toward each other like the players do. I recall Pat Sullivan Talking about him and other AU players going out on the town with Johnny Musso and other UAT guys every year after the Iron Bowl, regardless of who won.  Yes, I realize that was a different place and time, but even now, if you watch the players interact after the game, I don’t see the same level of hate that I see among many of the fans at the game.

Of course, I can’t control who hates who or why, I can only control me. This brings to mind a couple of lines from Rudyard Kipling’s poem “IF”:

…If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated don't give way to hating,...

…If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

…Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!

[HardcoreAU79 0]

I also agree with Phillip, but during Bammers National Title run year before last, Auburn fans were not dragging them through the mud. We were watching football and pulling for our team to win if not then we just waited for the next game to be played. See thats how Auburn fans are. We do not walk around like we should have a monopoly on college football, like the Bammers do and always have. Auburn people can handle the Bammers having a good year every now and then, but they can not. If the Auburn vs Alabama or SEC gets hurt by stuff it will be at the hands of the Bammers point blank. WAR EAGLE!!!!!

To say that some AU people were not dragging UAT through the mud is not exactly correct. While I will not even try to guess "who started it" or who escalated it, right or wrong, we had some people circulating "the packet" about what allegedly happened in Gadsden, to every media outlet in the state before Cam ever arrived at AU.

I am not saying that is wrong, not saying they have not done the same or worse. However, I agree with a lot of what PM wrote.  If this keeps up, regardless of who is at fault, we will end up destroying each other. We will end up much like the old southwest conference.

It may very well already be unavoidable at this point; I am certainly not in any way advocating unilateral disarmament and you can’t put the Jeannie back in the bottle.

I think the best hope is for the head coaches to be more outspoken to their fan bases as they have recently.  Though now illegal under NCAA rules, back in the old days (prior to Bill Curry and Donald Watkins) the programs had a gentleman’s agreement where if there were a problem, the head coaches would call each other and work it out amongst themselves prior to going to the NCAA.  Of course now it is a violation NOT to report an infraction to the NCAA.

It is a shame ALL the fans can’t act toward each other like the players do. I recall Pat Sullivan Talking about him and other AU players going out on the town with Johnny Musso and other UAT guys every year after the Iron Bowl, regardless of who won.  Yes, I realize that was a different place and time, but even now, if you watch the players interact after the game, I don’t see the same level of hate that I see among many of the fans at the game.

Of course, I can’t control who hates who or why, I can only control me. This brings to mind a couple of lines from Rudyard Kipling’s poem “IF”:

…If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated don't give way to hating,...

…If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

…Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!

Yes, in the old days the two schools agreed to share the state and it worked well.  Could again if the grown ups would take control.

As to the theory that AU started this, I can only disagree most strongly. So, if you have any pull with UA's camp,  let this stop.  I mostl strongly support you.  Tell you what, I'll e-mail Jay and you do too and recommend it .

After the trees a good U of A alum friend came to me to apologize.  I told him thanks but he had done nothing to harm us but I appeciated the gesture.  I told him I'd had enough though and if it took us not playing each other or whatever was necessary for my school to not be vandalized and attacked it needed to be done.

He agreed it was out of hand, and made the comment about the genie and the bottle.  I told him until they got their SWAA association under control and would not tolerate such it would never end.  And it won't.  Until they make it know that their so called Klass Act (emphasize Act) does not include or have any room for the Harvey's of the world to claim them it will not stop.

But they would rather shake their heads at them and wink wink nod nod @ their antics and take the royalties from the T shirts sales than stop this.  The only way would be if they made it a policy to not condone such.

I agree and have often quoted those Kipling verses to my own sons.  I have told them to not use violence except to defend themselves.  I have also told them if you look a bully straight in the eye, smiled, and told him he should think before he moved a muscle except backwardsife would be better for him.

I also told him to be prepared if he did not to defend himself.

Peace Love and Tigers

[rockfordpi 91]

I also agree with Phillip, but during Bammers National Title run year before last, Auburn fans were not dragging them through the mud. We were watching football and pulling for our team to win if not then we just waited for the next game to be played. See thats how Auburn fans are. We do not walk around like we should have a monopoly on college football, like the Bammers do and always have. Auburn people can handle the Bammers having a good year every now and then, but they can not. If the Auburn vs Alabama or SEC gets hurt by stuff it will be at the hands of the Bammers point blank. WAR EAGLE!!!!!

To say that some AU people were not dragging UAT through the mud is not exactly correct. While I will not even try to guess "who started it" or who escalated it, right or wrong, we had some people circulating "the packet" about what allegedly happened in Gadsden, to every media outlet in the state before Cam ever arrived at AU.

I am not saying that is wrong, not saying they have not done the same or worse. However, I agree with a lot of what PM wrote.  If this keeps up, regardless of who is at fault, we will end up destroying each other. We will end up much like the old southwest conference.

It may very well already be unavoidable at this point; I am certainly not in any way advocating unilateral disarmament and you can’t put the Jeannie back in the bottle.

I think the best hope is for the head coaches to be more outspoken to their fan bases as they have recently.  Though now illegal under NCAA rules, back in the old days (prior to Bill Curry and Donald Watkins) the programs had a gentleman’s agreement where if there were a problem, the head coaches would call each other and work it out amongst themselves prior to going to the NCAA.  Of course now it is a violation NOT to report an infraction to the NCAA.

It is a shame ALL the fans can’t act toward each other like the players do. I recall Pat Sullivan Talking about him and other AU players going out on the town with Johnny Musso and other UAT guys every year after the Iron Bowl, regardless of who won.  Yes, I realize that was a different place and time, but even now, if you watch the players interact after the game, I don’t see the same level of hate that I see among many of the fans at the game.

Of course, I can’t control who hates who or why, I can only control me. This brings to mind a couple of lines from Rudyard Kipling’s poem “IF”:

…If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,

Or being hated don't give way to hating,...

…If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

…Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!

Yes, in the old days the two schools agreed to share the state and it worked well.  Could again if the grown ups would take control.

As to the theory that AU started this, I can only disagree most strongly. So, if you have any pull with UA's camp,  let this stop.  I mostl strongly support you.  Tell you what, I'll e-mail Jay and you do too and recommend it .

After the trees a good U of A alum friend came to me to apologize.  I told him thanks but he had done nothing to harm us but I appeciated the gesture.  I told him I'd had enough though and if it took us not playing each other or whatever was necessary for my school to not be vandalized and attacked it needed to be done.

He agreed it was out of hand, and made the comment about the genie and the bottle.  I told him until they got their SWAA association under control and would not tolerate such it would never end.  And it won't.  Until they make it know that their so called Klass Act (emphasize Act) does not include or have any room for the Harvey's of the world to claim them it will not stop.

But they would rather shake their heads at them and wink wink nod nod @ their antics and take the royalties from the T shirts sales than stop this.  The only way would be if they made it a policy to not condone such.

I agree and have often quoted those Kipling verses to my own sons.  I have told them to not use violence except to defend themselves.  I have also told them if you look a bully straight in the eye, smiled, and told him he should think before he moved a muscle except backwardsife would be better for him.

I also told him to be prepared if he did not to defend himself.

Peace Love and Tigers

Just to be clear, I did not say or imply the AU started this. I don’t know who started it; I doubt it is even possible to tell. 

It is kind of like the Israeli/Palestinian issue, it depends on HOW FAR BACK you go as to whose territory it is.

Also, I certainly do not have ANY influence in the UAT camp.

[Stripe 5]

The more I read this guys articles the more impressed I become.