Ok, that was a butt kicking

[TexasTiger 12,969]

Cheney even lies about the most insignificant things.  He's pathological.  Cheney claimed that he had never met Edwards before.

Addressing the National Prayer Breakast, Cheney said: "Thank you. Thank you very much. Congressman Watts, Senator Edwards, friends from across America and distinguished visitors to our country from all over the world, Lynne and I honored to be with you all this morning."  [FDCH Political Transcripts, Cheney Remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast, 2/1/01]

108584[/snapback]

When speaking of pathological liars, you can only be speaking of Kerry. Trying to spin that Cheney is a 'liar' for having once uttered the name of Sen. Edwards some how constitutes him MEETING the Pretty Pony from Carolina, is laughable. By your " reasoning ", I've met everybody in Jordan-Hare whose ever watched a game on Saturday when I was in the stadium w/ them.

Cheney scored a MAJOR hit in the debate w/ that line. Everyone in the room could feel it, and it showed on T.V.

108618[/snapback]

If your honest with yourself, you will come to recognize this one is backfiring. Tim Russert is on Today saying they met on his show. They sat together on the dais at the prayer breakfast. They met when Edwards escorted Elizabeth Edwards to be sworn in. Is Cheney on crack, suffering from dementia or, as he has shown again and again, he often lies to make exactly the type of emphatic point you mention? Take your pick.

[TitanTiger 20,506]

Well, that just goes to show that people see and hear what they want to see and hear.  Without going back to the Presidential debate thread, I'd guess that many of those who thought Cheney knocked Edwards out last night opined that Bush whacked Kerry.

Then you'd have guessed wrong. I freely admitted that Kerry bested Bush in the first debate. I still think Cheney took Edwards to school last night.

What I learned last night is that the VP candidates are much more solid than the Presidential candidates.  I am now thinking that those who suggested that Cheney is the Wizzard of Oz who runs the show for Bush may be right.  The main thing that makes me question that Cheney is calling the shots for Bush is that Bush made so many bonehead decisions.  Surely Cheney would know better.

I learned that Cheney is much better at expressing himself than Bush is. He's more articulate. And you're right, Edwards is moreso than Kerry. Basically, I didn't think Edwards did badly so much...I just thought Cheney was that good.

[AURainman 6]

Cheney owned Edwards in most of the debate.

Kerry definitely won the first debate. And, I'm a Bush supporter. Seems like LegalEagle's little theory isnt holding much fruition.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Why do kerry and edwards get to continually get away with the 200 billion and counting remark?

The 200 billion is a PROJECTED number.

To be at that number and counting would mean its a CURRENT number.

How is that not a lie?

[LegalEagle 22]

Well, that just goes to show that people see and hear what they want to see and hear.  Without going back to the Presidential debate thread, I'd guess that many of those who thought Cheney knocked Edwards out last night opined that Bush whacked Kerry.

Then you'd have guessed wrong. I freely admitted that Kerry bested Bush in the first debate. I still think Cheney took Edwards to school last night.

What I learned last night is that the VP candidates are much more solid than the Presidential candidates.  I am now thinking that those who suggested that Cheney is the Wizzard of Oz who runs the show for Bush may be right.  The main thing that makes me question that Cheney is calling the shots for Bush is that Bush made so many bonehead decisions.  Surely Cheney would know better.

I learned that Cheney is much better at expressing himself than Bush is. He's more articulate. And you're right, Edwards is moreso than Kerry. Basically, I didn't think Edwards did badly so much...I just thought Cheney was that good.

108649[/snapback]

And the Rainman said the morning after the Bush/Kerry debate:

A. Kerry clearly won

B. QUOTE

I have a better plan for homeland security. I have a better plan to be able to fight the war on terror by strengthening our military, strengthening our intelligence, by going after the financing more authoritatively, by doing what we need to do to rebuild the alliances, by reaching out to the Muslim world, which the president has almost not done, and beginning to isolate the radical Islamic Muslims, not have them isolate the United States of America.

I know I can do a better job in Iraq. I have a plan to have a summit with all of the allies, something this president has not yet achieved, not yet been able to do to bring people to the table.

We can do a better job of training the Iraqi forces to defend themselves, and I know that we can do a better job of preparing for elections.

All of these, and especially homeland security, which we‘ll talk about a little bit later.

**********

Now, we have a choice here. I‘ve laid out a plan by which I think we can be successful in Iraq: with a summit, by doing better training, faster, by cutting—by doing what we need to do with respect to the U.N. and the elections.

That‘s why, in my plan, I add two active duty divisions to the United States Army, not for Iraq, but for our general demands across the globe.

I also intend to double the number of special forces so that we can do the job we need to do with respect fighting the terrorists around the world. And if we do that, then we have the ability to be able to respond more rapidly.

*************

I have a plan for Iraq. I believe we can be successful. I‘m not talking about leaving. I‘m talking about winning. And we need a fresh start, a new credibility, a president who can bring allies to our side.

I also have a plan to win the war on terror, funding homeland security, strengthening our military, cutting our finances, reaching out to the world, again building strong alliances.

That one had me in tears last night. "THE PRESIDENT ALMOST DIDNT PUT THE TOILET SEAT DOWN LAST NIGHT!!!!!"

What a moroon!!

[AURainman 6]

Rainman also said this...

Personally, I thought Kerry at least held his own.  President Bush didnt seem too presidential last night.  I was a little frustrated.  I'd say Kerry and Bush were neck-in-neck with Kerry finishing slightly ahead of Bush.  I am a Bush supporter, but Bush stayed on the defensive all night.  NOT something an incumbent should have to do.

106568[/snapback]

Check the first page of the same thread.

And then on "Take it for what its worth."

Well, I'm not sure anyone could look at this thing objectively and come to the conclusion that Bush "killed" him in the debate.  I love Bush and I believe he's the right man for the job, but even I saw that Bush didn't seem on his game last night.

106625[/snapback]

Thats been my take all along. People have been blabbing on about how great he was, but I saw nothing new. Kerry did a masterful job of forcing GWB into the defensive role. That is NOT a role for an incumbent. Kerry had more substance to his debates than I expected, and Bush looked like he had just "crammed" five minutes before the big test.

For the record, I'm still voting for Bush.

106668[/snapback]

My other comment was just about what Kerry had to say about President Bush! It was in no way my opinion on the debate. My opinion on Kerry is..... well, I think you know it by now.

WHAT A MAROON!!!!

[CCTAU 3,336]

Why do kerry and edwards get to continually get away with the 200 billion and counting remark?

The 200 billion is a PROJECTED number.

To be at that number and counting would mean its a CURRENT number.

How is that not a lie?

108686[/snapback]

They can do it because the media does not check them out. They also lie about the Haliburton contract being 7 billion. It is a contract for work to be done up to 7 billion but not anywhere near a guaranteed 7 billion. It was a worst case scenario which has not taken place. They will receive MUCH less. And that contract was implemented by Clinton. It was just put into place by this admin.

And as far as Cheney's actions while he was CEO of Haliburton, they have NO relation to what he does now. While CEO it was his duty to make all the money he could for the stockholders. While he is VP, it is his duty to help all Americans receive their fare share.

Most of the employment numbers used by dems do not include small business owners. And they are the ones hiring a large number of people. sKerry's plan would help crush these guys. He is just too stupid to think anyone would know.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Cheney even lies about the most insignificant things.  He's pathological.  Cheney claimed that he had never met Edwards before.

Addressing the National Prayer Breakast, Cheney said: "Thank you. Thank you very much. Congressman Watts, Senator Edwards, friends from across America and distinguished visitors to our country from all over the world, Lynne and I honored to be with you all this morning."  [FDCH Political Transcripts, Cheney Remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast, 2/1/01]

108584[/snapback]

When speaking of pathological liars, you can only be speaking of Kerry. Trying to spin that Cheney is a 'liar' for having once uttered the name of Sen. Edwards some how constitutes him MEETING the Pretty Pony from Carolina, is laughable. By your " reasoning ", I've met everybody in Jordan-Hare whose ever watched a game on Saturday when I was in the stadium w/ them.

Cheney scored a MAJOR hit in the debate w/ that line. Everyone in the room could feel it, and it showed on T.V.

108618[/snapback]

If your honest with yourself, you will come to recognize this one is backfiring. Tim Russert is on Today saying they met on his show. They sat together on the dais at the prayer breakfast. They met when Edwards escorted Elizabeth Edwards to be sworn in. Is Cheney on crack, suffering from dementia or, as he has shown again and again, he often lies to make exactly the type of emphatic point you mention? Take your pick.

108630[/snapback]

Clearly, Cheney and Edwards have never had a face to face discussion. Edwards knows it, or he'd have said exactly what you just said right then. They might have been in the same room, but that doesn't mean they 'met' . My Jordan-Hare analogy is still stands. Even if the event was on a smaller scale, it's clear that Edwards didn't take the time to meet the VP, and it's also clear that Cheney wasn't impressed enough w/ Edwards to warrent remembering any of those trivial encounters. Nice try

[CCTAU 3,336]

Cheney even lies about the most insignificant things.  He's pathological.  Cheney claimed that he had never met Edwards before.

Addressing the National Prayer Breakast, Cheney said: "Thank you. Thank you very much. Congressman Watts, Senator Edwards, friends from across America and distinguished visitors to our country from all over the world, Lynne and I honored to be with you all this morning."  [FDCH Political Transcripts, Cheney Remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast, 2/1/01]

108584[/snapback]

When speaking of pathological liars, you can only be speaking of Kerry. Trying to spin that Cheney is a 'liar' for having once uttered the name of Sen. Edwards some how constitutes him MEETING the Pretty Pony from Carolina, is laughable. By your " reasoning ", I've met everybody in Jordan-Hare whose ever watched a game on Saturday when I was in the stadium w/ them.

Cheney scored a MAJOR hit in the debate w/ that line. Everyone in the room could feel it, and it showed on T.V.

108618[/snapback]

If your honest with yourself, you will come to recognize this one is backfiring. Tim Russert is on Today saying they met on his show. They sat together on the dais at the prayer breakfast. They met when Edwards escorted Elizabeth Edwards to be sworn in. Is Cheney on crack, suffering from dementia or, as he has shown again and again, he often lies to make exactly the type of emphatic point you mention? Take your pick.

108630[/snapback]

Clearly, Cheney and Edwards have never had a face to face discussion. Edwards knows it, or he'd have said exactly what you just said right then. They might have been in the same room, but that doesn't mean they 'met' . My Jordan-Hare analogy is still stands. Even if the event was on a smaller scale, it's clear that Edwards didn't take the time to meet the VP, and it's also clear that Cheney wasn't impressed enough w/ Edwards to warrent remembering any of those trivial encounters. Nice try

108847[/snapback]

I think his point was that he can't recall ever seeing him in the senate. Hence meeting him in an official capacity for the first time at the debates.

I like it. It's the same thing the dems are doing to Bush. Doesn't matter that its not cmpletely true. Enough of its true to say it while everyone's watching and then let it be clarified while noone's listening. Perfect dem tactic. Good job Dick!

[TexasTiger 12,969]

Cheney even lies about the most insignificant things.  He's pathological.  Cheney claimed that he had never met Edwards before.

Addressing the National Prayer Breakast, Cheney said: "Thank you. Thank you very much. Congressman Watts, Senator Edwards, friends from across America and distinguished visitors to our country from all over the world, Lynne and I honored to be with you all this morning."  [FDCH Political Transcripts, Cheney Remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast, 2/1/01]

108584[/snapback]

When speaking of pathological liars, you can only be speaking of Kerry. Trying to spin that Cheney is a 'liar' for having once uttered the name of Sen. Edwards some how constitutes him MEETING the Pretty Pony from Carolina, is laughable. By your " reasoning ", I've met everybody in Jordan-Hare whose ever watched a game on Saturday when I was in the stadium w/ them.

Cheney scored a MAJOR hit in the debate w/ that line. Everyone in the room could feel it, and it showed on T.V.

108618[/snapback]

If your honest with yourself, you will come to recognize this one is backfiring. Tim Russert is on Today saying they met on his show. They sat together on the dais at the prayer breakfast. They met when Edwards escorted Elizabeth Edwards to be sworn in. Is Cheney on crack, suffering from dementia or, as he has shown again and again, he often lies to make exactly the type of emphatic point you mention? Take your pick.

108630[/snapback]

Clearly, Cheney and Edwards have never had a face to face discussion. Edwards knows it, or he'd have said exactly what you just said right then. They might have been in the same room, but that doesn't mean they 'met' . My Jordan-Hare analogy is still stands. Even if the event was on a smaller scale, it's clear that Edwards didn't take the time to meet the VP, and it's also clear that Cheney wasn't impressed enough w/ Edwards to warrent remembering any of those trivial encounters. Nice try

108847[/snapback]

I think his point was that he can't recall ever seeing him in the senate. Hence meeting him in an official capacity for the first time at the debates.

I like it. It's the same thing the dems are doing to Bush. Doesn't matter that its not cmpletely true. Enough of its true to say it while everyone's watching and then let it be clarified while noone's listening. Perfect dem tactic. Good job Dick!

108865[/snapback]

Cheney is rarely in the Senate. He breaks ties, that's about it.

Some of the lies of a delusional, sick and twisted man:

From Kevin Drum, a writer for Washington Monthly:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/...4_10/004860.php

"LIE PATROL....It's easy to get cynical about politicians lying, but last night's debate was remarkable for the number of times Dick Cheney told

flat-out fibs. Both candidates stretched the facts here and there, and both of them sometimes left out important context -- but Cheney was the only one to brazenly lie in front of a national audience, and he did it at least half a dozen times."

----

WHAT HE SAID:

"The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight."

THE ACTUAL TRUTH:

Cheney has met Edwards at least three times: at a prayer breakfast in 2001, at Elizabeth Dole's swearing-in ceremony in 2003, and backstage at

Meet the Press.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/21911/3618

http://www.livejournal.com/users/insomnia/487526.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/104324/489

[Also, Cheney does not preside over the Senate "most Tuesdays" ... in fact, Senate records show he's only ever done it twice!]

----

WHAT HE SAID:

"Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you Senator Gone."

THE ACTUAL TRUTH:

Cheney was referring to The Pilot, a small paper in Pinehurst, NC -- not Edwards' hometown. What's more, as they themselves put it today, "The Pilot hasn't 'taken to calling him' anything." In fact, they used this term only once in an editorial run 15 months ago.

http://www.thepilot.com/opinion/100604PilotEditorial2.html

----

WHAT HE SAID:

"The senator has got his facts wrong. I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."

THE ACTUAL TRUTH:

Cheney knows perfectly well that he's been one of the administration's biggest boosters of alleged ties between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. In September 2003 Cheney said "[iraq is] the geographical base of the terrorists who had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9-11." What's more, he has suggested that Saddam Hussen was connected with 9/11 on numerous other occasions.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/

http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/20...dex.html#004297

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/...0_03.php#003583

----

WHAT HE SAID:

"...the 90 percent figure is just dead wrong. When you include the Iraqi security forces that have suffered casualties, as well as the allies, they've taken almost 50 percent of the casualties in operations in Iraq."

THE ACTUAL TRUTH:

Edwards wasn't "dead wrong." He was dead right. Iraq isn't part of the coalition, and as of Tuesday 1,061 American service members had been killed compared to 136 from non-U.S. coalition forces. That's 88% of all coalition casualties.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/...-home-headlines

----

WHAT HE SAID:

John Edwards:

    While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and Ken Lay.

    They did business with Libya and Iran, two sworn enemies of the United States.

    They're now under investigation for having bribed foreign officials during that period of time.

    Not only that, they've gotten a $7.5 billion no-bid contract in Iraq, and instead of part of their money being withheld, which is the way

it's normally done, because they're under investigation, they've continued to get their money.

Dick Cheney:

    They know the charges are false.

    They know that if you go, for example, to factcheck.com [sic], an independent Web site sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania, you

can get the specific details with respect to Halliburton.

THE ACTUAL TRUTH:

Cheney meant to refer to factcheck.org, but it doesn't really matter because they don't have anything that addresses Edwards' accusations

anyway. In fact, Edwards' charges are all accurate.

http://www.factcheck.org/

http://slate.msn.com/id/2107809/

----

WHAT HE SAID:

"The Kerry record on taxes is one basically of voting for a large number of tax increases -- 98 times in the United States Senate."

THE ACTUAL TRUTH:

That's a change from the old charge that Kerry has voted to increase taxes 350 times, but it's still false. Factcheck.org -- yes, them again -- says

Cheney's number isn't even close to the truth.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=247