johnjacob 44 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I was talking about the spread in general, but Gus does run a variant of the spread, the HUNH. If anything, that variant of the spread cripples your defense more than any other. Only thing that cripples a D is bad coaching and bad players. You either get three and outs or you don't and your D is either in shape or they aren't. I coached basketball and my teams always played a full-court, all out effort style and it was the other teams that wore out, because they weren't used to it and had only conditioned for four quarters of ball where as my team were conditioned for two games in a row. This idea that the HUNH wears out your D is utter nonsense, especially if the other team does not run the HUNH, because then you are able to sub defensive players often while the other team is not. So quit trying to defend your poor coaching choices Mr. Chizik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsande07 271 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 The HUNH effectively makes games longer by causing more plays to be run. This makes conditioning, discipline, and fundamental sound-ness on defense more important than advanced scheming. (It also means that 'top line' stats like total yardage given up will be worse even if yards/play are held constant.) Unfortunately, our defenses under Chizik (as head coach) have generally lacked these traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SandMntTiger 9 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Having a spread offense that works and a good defense is not logically possible. The only way it would work is if you slow down your offense, and that defeats the whole purpose of having a spread offense. DyeHard...your statement is without merit. The spread doesn't have to involve a HUNH and frantic pace. You can huddle up and still use the spread. However, since we are talking about Gus, I'll leave this debate focused on high pace offenses. It is not "illogical" to believe you can have a good defense with a HUNH spread. I think your argument is that when scoring or not scoring, the HUNH allows less rest for your defense, due to shorter offensive possessions. Therefore, you believe that the HUNH spread results in our defense being too tired to play defense. This is a fallacy, perpetuated by Gene Chizik and believed by gullible Auburn fans who didn't realize Chizik sucked as a defensive coach. If our defense is tired, so is the opposing offense. In fact, more time of possession should affect the offense more, since teams substitute defensive linemen more often than offensive linemen. Does the HUNH spread result in our defense being more tired than our offense? Sure. Does it result in our defense being more tired than our opponent's offense? If you say yes, then you, my friend, are making a statement that appears illogical. Let's get off the Chizik theories and get back to reality...in 2010, Auburn ran a smash mouth attack with a HUNH spread. Meyer has fielded good defenses despite running the spread for years. Chip Kelley has Oregon playing good defense, with a HUNH spread. If a team recruits good defensive players, develops them, and employs a sound scheme, unlike the Tampa 2 that even Monte Kiffin has abandoned in college football, then you can field a strong defense, regardless of whether you run a spread, option, or tradition power set offense, or even a true pro style offense like Petrino. How many times annually do you see a top 10 defense whose offense also runs a HUNH? And that Chip Kelly defense also got blistered to the tune of 50+ against USC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyeHardAllTheWay 0 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Having a spread offense that works and a good defense is not logically possible. The only way it would work is if you slow down your offense, and that defeats the whole purpose of having a spread offense. DyeHard...your statement is without merit. The spread doesn't have to involve a HUNH and frantic pace. You can huddle up and still use the spread. However, since we are talking about Gus, I'll leave this debate focused on high pace offenses. It is not "illogical" to believe you can have a good defense with a HUNH spread. I think your argument is that when scoring or not scoring, the HUNH allows less rest for your defense, due to shorter offensive possessions. Therefore, you believe that the HUNH spread results in our defense being too tired to play defense. This is a fallacy, perpetuated by Gene Chizik and believed by gullible Auburn fans who didn't realize Chizik sucked as a defensive coach. If our defense is tired, so is the opposing offense. In fact, more time of possession should affect the offense more, since teams substitute defensive linemen more often than offensive linemen. Does the HUNH spread result in our defense being more tired than our offense? Sure. Does it result in our defense being more tired than our opponent's offense? If you say yes, then you, my friend, are making a statement that appears illogical. Let's get off the Chizik theories and get back to reality...in 2010, Auburn ran a smash mouth attack with a HUNH spread. Meyer has fielded good defenses despite running the spread for years. Chip Kelley has Oregon playing good defense, with a HUNH spread. If a team recruits good defensive players, develops them, and employs a sound scheme, unlike the Tampa 2 that even Monte Kiffin has abandoned in college football, then you can field a strong defense, regardless of whether you run a spread, option, or tradition power set offense, or even a true pro style offense like Petrino. How many times annually do you see a top 10 defense whose offense also runs a HUNH? And that Chip Kelly defense also got blistered to the tune of 50+ against USC. And West Virginia's defense is excellent too! Only in the 100s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsande07 271 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Our defense is also awesome! Glad we got rid of that Malzahn guy! *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 The HUNH is not necessarily a spread offense. You can run a wishbone from a HUNH. HUNH is just that, a Hurry Up No Huddle Offense. It has nothing to do with the formation. The confusion comes in because many spread offenses also do HUNH. Wait, facts? Knowledge? Wisdom? *I'm lost* Exactly, if we cannot have a civil discussion based on rumors, assumptions, innuendo, prejudice, and ignorance, then what's the point? Knowledge, wisdom, and facts?, only about 3 people on here would qualify for such a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SandMntTiger 9 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Our defense is also awesome! Glad we got rid of that Malzahn guy! *sigh* How did Roof's D look this year when his D wasn't on the field every other 2 minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU Counsel 64 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Our defense is also awesome! Glad we got rid of that Malzahn guy! *sigh* How did Roof's D look this year when his D wasn't on the field every other 2 minutes? Auburn never ran Ted Roof's defense. So now that Roof finally got to run it, it worked great. When we slowed down Gus last year, our defense still sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraSwagnus 1 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Not to belabor the point, but "spread" and "HUNH" are not the same thing. people see shotgun and assume its all the same thing we need an up and coming coach with a history of WINNING. theres a reason most of the coaches on our list arent at their "destination" jobs and its because some of them just arent that good(Patterson, Fisher, Petrino even Smart) Gus is fresh, new, and innovative people would rather settle for a guy who will have us getting 8 wins every year but handled by our rivals and never competing for a championship, no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsande07 271 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Our defense is also awesome! Glad we got rid of that Malzahn guy! *sigh* How did Roof's D look this year when his D wasn't on the field every other 2 minutes? It looked like he was playing for a coach whose name was not Gene Chizik. We DID NOT RUN UPTEMPO for most of 2010 or 2011. We were trying to 'protect the defense.' Turns out, you need a defense before you can think of protecting one. How did BVG defense look at UGA? How will it look when he moves on? Is the Leoffler HUNH to blame? *why do I bother* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Our defense is also awesome! Glad we got rid of that Malzahn guy! *sigh* How did Roof's D look this year when his D wasn't on the field every other 2 minutes? I'm assuming CTR wasn't running the Tampa 2 this year. My prejudice against the Tampa 2 tells me that has more to do with than trying to work with a HUNH offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dothan Eagle 0 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Not to belabor the point, but "spread" and "HUNH" are not the same thing. people see shotgun and assume its all the same thing we need an up and coming coach with a history of WINNING. theres a reason most of the coaches on our list arent at their "destination" jobs and its because some of them just arent that good(Patterson, Fisher, Petrino even Smart) Gus is fresh, new, and innovative people would rather settle for a guy who will have us getting 8 wins every year but handled by our rivals and never competing for a championship, no thanks I think your forgetting the golden rule..........never go full retard. smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey 16,734 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Not to belabor the point, but "spread" and "HUNH" are not the same thing. people see shotgun and assume its all the same thing we need an up and coming coach with a history of WINNING. theres a reason most of the coaches on our list arent at their "destination" jobs and its because some of them just arent that good(Patterson, Fisher, Petrino even Smart) Gus is fresh, new, and innovative people would rather settle for a guy who will have us getting 8 wins every year but handled by our rivals and never competing for a championship, no thanks Oh, please! To suggest that Gus somehow has better credentials than Patterson or Fisher, as you just did, is irrational. Smart has more upside than any of them. Patterson and Fisher are proven winners. I like Gus as a candidate but if what we're looking at is a track record Gus is way behind several others that are said to be on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Not to belabor the point, but "spread" and "HUNH" are not the same thing. people see shotgun and assume its all the same thing we need an up and coming coach with a history of WINNING. theres a reason most of the coaches on our list arent at their "destination" jobs and its because some of them just arent that good(Patterson, Fisher, Petrino even Smart) Gus is fresh, new, and innovative people would rather settle for a guy who will have us getting 8 wins every year but handled by our rivals and never competing for a championship, no thanks Yep, we aren't going to beat the bammers by being a better version of the bammers. We are going to beat them by being different. We need a cutting edge coach who is a genius. We need Gus. Again, for the twenty-fifth time, Gus is the only coach who has proven he can win a NC at Auburn and it did it with Chizik in the way. Let him drive the bus without anyone looking over his shoulder and we will be back in Atlanta within 2 years. Look at the drop off when Gus left. Heck, this years team even arguably had more talent. Gus will out think and out work the miniature coach. If you don't want Gus, you just haven't thought this through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dothan Eagle 0 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Gus is plan C and I see no reason to hire him unless GP, CP, CS, JM, JF and BP turn us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SandMntTiger 9 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 So in 2011 Malzhan and Roof were the problems and in 2012 it was all Chizik instead. How about we just keep our hands washed from all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoetTiger 1,900 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Having a spread offense that works and a good defense is not logically possible. The only way it would work is if you slow down your offense, and that defeats the whole purpose of having a spread offense. Football is about execution, blocking and tackling....do that well and you win games.....regardless of philosophy, the team that does that best succeeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Not to belabor the point, but "spread" and "HUNH" are not the same thing. people see shotgun and assume its all the same thing we need an up and coming coach with a history of WINNING. theres a reason most of the coaches on our list arent at their "destination" jobs and its because some of them just arent that good(Patterson, Fisher, Petrino even Smart) Gus is fresh, new, and innovative people would rather settle for a guy who will have us getting 8 wins every year but handled by our rivals and never competing for a championship, no thanks I think your forgetting the golden rule..........never go full retard. smh There have been some quality anti-Gus posts in this thread that have expressed legitmate concerns related to hiring Gus. ^THIS is NOT one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjacob 44 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Having a spread offense that works and a good defense is not logically possible. The only way it would work is if you slow down your offense, and that defeats the whole purpose of having a spread offense. DyeHard...your statement is without merit. The spread doesn't have to involve a HUNH and frantic pace. You can huddle up and still use the spread. However, since we are talking about Gus, I'll leave this debate focused on high pace offenses. It is not "illogical" to believe you can have a good defense with a HUNH spread. I think your argument is that when scoring or not scoring, the HUNH allows less rest for your defense, due to shorter offensive possessions. Therefore, you believe that the HUNH spread results in our defense being too tired to play defense. This is a fallacy, perpetuated by Gene Chizik and believed by gullible Auburn fans who didn't realize Chizik sucked as a defensive coach. If our defense is tired, so is the opposing offense. In fact, more time of possession should affect the offense more, since teams substitute defensive linemen more often than offensive linemen. Does the HUNH spread result in our defense being more tired than our offense? Sure. Does it result in our defense being more tired than our opponent's offense? If you say yes, then you, my friend, are making a statement that appears illogical. Let's get off the Chizik theories and get back to reality...in 2010, Auburn ran a smash mouth attack with a HUNH spread. Meyer has fielded good defenses despite running the spread for years. Chip Kelley has Oregon playing good defense, with a HUNH spread. If a team recruits good defensive players, develops them, and employs a sound scheme, unlike the Tampa 2 that even Monte Kiffin has abandoned in college football, then you can field a strong defense, regardless of whether you run a spread, option, or tradition power set offense, or even a true pro style offense like Petrino. How many times annually do you see a top 10 defense whose offense also runs a HUNH? And that Chip Kelly defense also got blistered to the tune of 50+ against USC. Who cares what your D is ranked as long as you are winning a lot of games. Well our D gave up over 60 to Tx AM and we weren't running the HUNH. Plus that USC game was the one were they got caught cheating with balls that were easier to catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Gus is plan C and I see no reason to hire him unless GP, CP, CS, JM, JF and BP turn us down. How many of those guys are responsible for bringing a NC to Auburn? How many of them are responsible for bringing a NC anywhere? You're not thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SandMntTiger 9 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Gus is plan C and I see no reason to hire him unless GP, CP, CS, JM, JF and BP turn us down. How many of those guys are responsible for bringing a NC to Auburn? How many of them are responsible for bringing a NC anywhere? You're not thinking. Is he bringing Cam with him as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU Counsel 64 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Not to belabor the point, but "spread" and "HUNH" are not the same thing. people see shotgun and assume its all the same thing we need an up and coming coach with a history of WINNING. theres a reason most of the coaches on our list arent at their "destination" jobs and its because some of them just arent that good(Patterson, Fisher, Petrino even Smart) Gus is fresh, new, and innovative people would rather settle for a guy who will have us getting 8 wins every year but handled by our rivals and never competing for a championship, no thanks Oh, please! To suggest that Gus somehow has better credentials than Patterson or Fisher, as you just did, is irrational. Smart has more upside than any of them. Patterson and Fisher are proven winners. I like Gus as a candidate but if what we're looking at is a track record Gus is way behind several others that are said to be on the list. There is a difference in coaching talent vs credentials. Jeremy Foley chose Urban Meyer over bringing back Steve Spurrier...and as it turns out, Meyer appears to be a better coach. At the time, Spurrier's credentials were far better. When LSU hired Nick Saban, many coaches had far better credentials...now, a few years later, Saban is on the verge of national title 4, surpassing Tom Osbourne and making himself the best coach since Bryant. This is all speculative...we might average 9 wins a year under Jimbo and Patterson, yet average 11 under Gus...or the opposite. However, I simply see in Gus a smarter coach than I see in Fisher, Patterson, Strong, or any other viable candidate, except Petrino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Having a spread offense that works and a good defense is not logically possible. The only way it would work is if you slow down your offense, and that defeats the whole purpose of having a spread offense. Football is about execution, blocking and tackling....do that well and you win games.....regardless of philosophy, the team that does that best succeeds. Now I think I know why we lost 9 games and finished last in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjacob 44 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Our defense is also awesome! Glad we got rid of that Malzahn guy! *sigh* How did Roof's D look this year when his D wasn't on the field every other 2 minutes? I'm assuming CTR wasn't running the Tampa 2 this year. My prejudice against the Tampa 2 tells me that has more to do with than trying to work with a HUNH offense. His defenses at Minn. looked nothing like they did at AU-because the D at AU was Chizik's not roofs. Roof was/is known for an aggressive, blitzing D(just like other former Gtech coaches) , which actually works vs the spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjacob 44 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Gus is plan C and I see no reason to hire him unless GP, CP, CS, JM, JF and BP turn us down. How many of those guys are responsible for bringing a NC to Auburn? How many of them are responsible for bringing a NC anywhere? You're not thinking. Is he bringing Cam with him as well? Well he'll most likely not bring Chizik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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