Another Ruby Ridge on the Horizon?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

ET....that "research" didn't note the reason behind this raid at this point in time.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

ET.......do you believe if Bundy gives in that the land will truly revert to the BLM as public land or end up in the hands of Reid or some crony LLC he is the primary partner in?

After all Reid has no shame. He was on a roll criticizing the Koch brothers until it was determined he had accepted money from them in the past.

The land is federal and will remain federal.

Do a little research and see who was behind this whole thing. Hint......Harry________.

Reid is not directly involved in this fiasco. He may be involved in the politics in the latter stages of the land use, but not with Bundy. I know, I know, Kornze is involved. Kornze is just an idiot.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

ET....that "research" didn't note the reason behind this raid at this point in time.

The "research" referred to is only in response to BigBens insight about the effect Bundy was willing to generate. Bundy was willing to have people killed on his behalf. Bundy is an idiot at best and devious at worst.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

No Ben it's not IMO. it has been noted on the news. I don't have a specific link so I guess it has to be speculation huh?

Why do you supposed the BLM chose this time to force the issue. Coincidence?

[AUDub 11,158]

...Bundy was willing to have people killed on his behalf. Bundy is an idiot at best and devious at worst.

Do you suppose many of the folks that showed up were actually there for Bundy or just co-opting his story to pick a fight with the Feds?

[AUDub 11,158]

No Ben it's not IMO. it has been noted on the news. I don't have a specific link so I guess it has to be speculation huh?

Why do you supposed the BLM chose this time to force the issue. Coincidence?

If you make a claim which is not immediately apparent or widely accepted, I expect you to back it up.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

...Bundy was willing to have people killed on his behalf. Bundy is an idiot at best and devious at worst.

Do you suppose many of the folks that showed up were actually there for Bundy or just co-opting his story to pick a fight with the Feds?

I believe that most were deluded individuals believing that Bundy was being taken advantage of. This has been a slow burning fire that Bundy has been flaming built with a false premise. He doesn't recognize the federal authority in this issue, only local. At one point I heard Bundy state that he was wanting the local sheriff to disarm the feds (yes, you read that correctly). As I'm typing this I'm hearing Bundy state the same words again on Hannity.

Would you believe this ? One thought expressed, I think on Beck's program, has been that some people were paid to come in and provoke the fight. Beck sounded disgusted with the confrontation these people orchestrated against the feds. Beck has always promoted an MLK approach to disagreements, ie, non-violent.

EDIT: Bundy is just a country bumpkin that somehow has swooned people with his faulty logic. He's definitely another David Koresh.

[AUDub 11,158]

I believe that most were deluded individuals believing that Bundy was being taken advantage of. This has been a slow burning fire that Bundy has been flaming built with a false premise. He doesn't recognize the federal authority in this issue, only local.

I find the irony of saying he abides by all state laws hilariously ironic in light of their constitution:

Sec: 2.  Purpose of government; paramount allegiance to United States.  All political power is inherent in the people[.] Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair[,] subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existance [existence], and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

At one point I heard Bundy state that he was wanting the local sheriff to disarm the feds (yes, you read that correctly). As I'm typing this I'm hearing Bundy state the same words again on Hannity.

I'd read that, as well. Saw the update on ThinkProgress. Nuts.

Would you believe this ? One thought expressed, I think on Beck's program, has been that some people were paid to come in and provoke the fight. Beck sounded disgusted with the confrontation these people orchestrated against the feds. Beck has always promoted an MLK approach to disagreements, ie, non-violent.

I doubt these people were paid. There are some misguided pockets of humanity out there, man.

EDIT: Bundy is just a country bumpkin that somehow has swooned people with his faulty logic. He's definitely another David Koresh.

At least he's not claiming he's the messiah.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

What I heard, can't remember who said it, was that Bundy represented himself in the federal court. Can't verify, haven't tried, but that's how deluded this guy is. He MAY have had some legitimate issues but he hired a fool as his attorney. He lost the very day he pleaded his cause before the courts.

EDIT: Kornz should be FIRED !

[AUDub 11,158]

What I heard, can't remember who said it, was that Bundy represented himself in the federal court. Can't verify, haven't tried, but that's how deluded this guy is. He MAY have had some legitimate issues but he hired a fool as his attorney. He lost the very day he pleaded his cause before the courts.

Another bit of irony. Ted Bundy represented himself in court, as well.

I really don't have much trouble accepting this claim as true. Powerlineblog and many others say that's the case, but the fact is there is probably no attorney worth his salt that would take Mr. Bundy's silly claims to court.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

I should have clarified. Bundy (odd that you bring up Ted Bundy...weird coincidence ?) might have had a real argument 20 years ago. Not recently. He's only caused the courts to shuffle paper on his way out the door, and only now, because he's created a zombie-like following, does he continue to promote his claims. Unfortunately these followers are deluded with him. They may have their own legitimate issues but have errantly conflated theirs with his.

The issue of these ranchers being squeezed out of Clark Co., NV seems to be a legitimate issue, but is on the verge of loss because of poor foresight by those pushing the issue and a lack of articulate interaction with the public. Those who support the big business, green, gambling, otherwise will now proceed once they resolve the optics of what's currently happening. Shame, true shame, but they just didn't organize properly.

[TexasTiger 12,964]

True TT but, Mr. Bundy's ancestors had free access to that very land back then.

Free rides usually come to an end.

What? I have to give up my obamaphone?

I'm not referring to mythical objects. ;)/>

Ha! But I trust your wise enough to have gotten the point. ;)/>

Yes, and I was using phrasing that "conservatives" claim to understand.

[homersapien 11,393]

I do find it interesting that so called public land really isn't public at all. If the government owns it it's no longer public land. It's land for lease.

I agree. Let's get the cattle off it.

[Weegle777 78]

Yep because, God forbid a turtle's desert be disturbed.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Yep because, God forbid a turtle's desert be disturbed.

That desert tortoise ruse was a red herring all along. They expect to kill hundreds of them now because they can no longer maintain the site set up for their preservation. There is some debate regarding the tortoise's endangered species status. Not so coincidentally, it was in 1993 that the BLM stepped in and changed the way the grazing fees were collected because of that turtle. Bundy says, until then, he had been paying those fees to Clark County. Allegedly, when the BLM ruled the fees should be paid to them, he stopped paying.

I have no idea how much of what I have read is a true depiction of the situation and how much is mis-represented. What I do think is wrong is sending in 200 agents armed with automatic weapons, confiscating Bundy's cows at gunpoint, creating a 1st amendment zone and a no fly zone at a cost of over $3 million tax payer dollars in an effort to collect the $1 million in past due fees the BLM says Bundy owes. That signals to me that that the fees really aren't the issue here because it makes no economic sense. It seems the federal govt is willing to go to any length to force Bundy into submission to its will if the operation generates a net loss of over $2 million dollars in the process or, they just want Bundy out of the way and gone and that begs the question...why?

I know that 84% ownership of Nevada lands was set up when the territory was originally acquired but I dont see the feasibility of federal ownership of 84% of Nevada land. It seems to undermine the whole idea of Nevada's state sovereignty. IMO, the BLM would better serve Nevadans if they focused more of their efforts on Park Services rather than trying to control 84% of Nevada land. That 84% of Nevada land is under fed control is bizarre to me.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I don't think it has been noted that Bundy has tried to pay his "dues" to the state of Nevada which he thinks owns the land. It should also be noted that there is nothing in the constitution that allows the feds to own property except for military use In the current case the feds (AKA Harry Reid) want the land for another energy boondoggle.

Wonder why the feds can send a small army after a U.S. citizen rancher but pay little attention to illegals crossing our orders in many places.

[TexasTiger 12,964]

I don't think it has been noted that Bundy has tried to pay his "dues" to the state of Nevada which he thinks owns the land. It should also be noted that there is nothing in the constitution that allows the feds to own property except for military use In the current case the feds (AKA Harry Reid) want the land for another energy boondoggle.

Wonder why the feds can send a small army after a U.S. citizen rancher but pay little attention to illegals crossing our orders in many places.

The federal government owned the land before carving out the state of NV.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I don't think it has been noted that Bundy has tried to pay his "dues" to the state of Nevada which he thinks owns the land. It should also be noted that there is nothing in the constitution that allows the feds to own property except for military use In the current case the feds (AKA Harry Reid) want the land for another energy boondoggle.

Wonder why the feds can send a small army after a U.S. citizen rancher but pay little attention to illegals crossing our orders in many places.

The federal government owned the land before carving out the state of NV.

And, considering they still control 84% of Nevada why even have a state of Nevada?

[Elephant Tipper 430]

Nevada county maybe ?

[Weegle777 78]

Area 51. Aliens man....aliens.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Maybe the government and the largest institutions should own 84% of everything? It will make central planning much more efficient comrades. Maybe the common denominator between the parties is that they both love the power of big government. Maybe the real concept behind the "rule of law" is the oldest legal concept, you know, the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. Is that barely possible when the concept of politicians being for sale is sanctioned by the legal system?

It is difficult to tell who is right and who is wrong in this particular case but, I am glad that the court of public opinion still has has some influence.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Area 51. Aliens man....aliens.

Alien tortoises? Is this country controlled by alien tortoises? Think about it.

[autigeremt 6,652]

I don't think it has been noted that Bundy has tried to pay his "dues" to the state of Nevada which he thinks owns the land. It should also be noted that there is nothing in the constitution that allows the feds to own property except for military use In the current case the feds (AKA Harry Reid) want the land for another energy boondoggle.

Wonder why the feds can send a small army after a U.S. citizen rancher but pay little attention to illegals crossing our orders in many places.

The federal government owned the land before carving out the state of NV.

The people own the land....NOT! I am reminded often that the federal government isn't by the people, for the people. It's by the people who pay and have the power and for the people who pay and have the power. We should look at renaming the country......The United Elites of North America.

[Weegle777 78]

Area 51. Aliens man....aliens.

Alien tortoises? Is this country controlled by alien tortoises? Think about it.

Well there is that reptilian underground race theory.........

[Weegle777 78]

People used to come to this country with the dream of owning land and living the American dream. Now it is all just an illusion. Sad that this once great country has fallen so. All because of the wealthy elitists and their greed.