Executive Order on Student Loans

[AFTiger 282]

What could go wrong?

Paying less each month means it takes longer to pay off the loan, but the program is geared toward low-income workers who can't afford to pay off their loans under the standard 10-year term. Under Obama's "Pay as You Earn Plan," any remaining balance is forgiven after 20 years of making payments.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_STUDENT_LOANS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Just another welfare deal. It will allow many more minority students to go to school free at our expense, then they will never pay off all the loan. But it does work both ways. Lots of kids from upper and middle class families can get student loans and end up never paying them back too.

[AUDub 11,424]

Just another welfare deal. It will allow many more minority students to go to school free at our expense, then they will never pay off all the loan. But it does work both ways. Lots of kids from upper and middle class families can get student loans and end up never paying them back too.

Why would you choose to focus on that?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Because the OP said what could go wrong. I think taking giving student loans that will only be partially paid back at best is wrong because I am having to foot the bill. I didn't take student loans and neither di my three kids. So why do I now have to pay for others?

[AUDub 11,424]

Because the OP said what could go wrong. I think taking giving student loans that will only be partially paid back at best is wrong because I am having to foot the bill. I didn't take student loans and neither di my three kids. So why do I now have to pay for others?

No, I mean whipping out the race card. Note the portion I bolded.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

I betcha berry is gonna give these loans to the illegal aliuns. He hates America.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Just another welfare deal. It will allow many more minority students to go to school free at our expense, then they will never pay off all the loan. But it does work both ways. Lots of kids from upper and middle class families can get student loans and end up never paying them back too.

Why would you choose to focus on that?

Cause wite people pay there damn bills buddy. What dont you understand about minoritys goin for free at HOUR expense. The wite people pay all the bills. SMH.

[Weegle777 78]

I am actually on board with this move. A better educated America benefits us all.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

I am actually on board with this move. A better educated America benefits us all.

Yay, why dont we just socilize everthing. Thatll make all better. Why dont you move to Russa.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Ben......so you think referring to minorities in general is playing the race card? Wow. It never crossed my mind.

[AFTiger 282]

I wish I could get a mortgage under these terms. Librul solutions always require more of our money.

[cptau 169]

Obamacare goes to college. He who earns the least pays the least. This falls in line with why Peloise wanted Obamacare subsidized health insurance.

You can get an art degree from a Ivy League school that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and then take a low paying job and not pay much of the tuition loan back. It helps those high cost private schools attract students to study in majors where that their is no real payback. Unfortunately tuition rates will continue rise dramatically. Anytime the government gets involved in paying for something like healthcare or college tuition, the prices go up.

Colleges are going to see a dramatic change in how classes are offered in order to try and lower costs and attract students. The days of large campuses with lots of classrooms and dorms may be numbered. Use of online classes will become the norm.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

cptau......what will be their incentive to cut costs? More students will be able to go on this new loan policy. Your example is a good one. What am I missing?

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Obamacare goes to college. He who earns the least pays the least. This falls in line with why Peloise wanted Obamacare subsidized health insurance.

You can get an art degree from a Ivy League school that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and then take a low paying job and not pay much of the tuition loan back. It helps those high cost private schools attract students to study in majors where that their is no real payback. Unfortunately tuition rates will continue rise dramatically. Anytime the government gets involved in paying for something like healthcare or college tuition, the prices go up.

Colleges are going to see a dramatic change in how classes are offered in order to try and lower costs and attract students. The days of large campuses with lots of classrooms and dorms may be numbered. Use of online classes will become the norm.

One small problem. The federal government has cut spending on education over this period.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

ICHY....it is a matter of bookkeeping. Education costs are down but welfare costs are way up. Taker some welfare money and educate the recipients. The money lost on student loans should be in the education budget.

Never the less, it has been shown over and over that throwing more money at education doesn't solve the problems.

[AFTiger 282]

According to the Congressional Budget Office, $8.7 billion of the money collected in student loan interest payments actually goes to pay for ObamaCare. The CBO estimates that the interest rate on these loans could be reduced from 6.8 percent to only 5.3 percent were the funds not used to subsidize the healthcare reform law and other federal programs.

Read more: http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/dick-morris/302247-loans-subsidize-obamacare#ixzz34GWMIN5H

Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

[icanthearyou 4,468]

ICHY....it is a matter of bookkeeping. Education costs are down but welfare costs are way up. Taker some welfare money and educate the recipients. The money lost on student loans should be in the education budget.

Never the less, it has been shown over and over that throwing more money at education doesn't solve the problems.

Federal money spent on subsidizing education is in the budget under welfare? The cost of education is down? I believe you are mistaken.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

I'm white, using your money for a health admin degree. Then I will use it for a MBA. I totally intend on making money while screwing all of you over.

[autigeremt 6,970]

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

ICHY....you misunderstood. Maybe I didn't say it the best. But what the heck, no amount of discussing it here is going to change it.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Texan4Auburn...... I share your agony and being a retired fed employee, I appreciate most of the kind guys here paying some of my pension and subsidizing my health insurance away from the evils of Obamacare.

Actually I hate that the conservative guys are having to do it but I am most gleeful some of the Dems here are chipping in

[cptau 169]

cptau......what will be their incentive to cut costs? More students will be able to go on this new loan policy. Your example is a good one. What am I missing?

Colleges have no incentives to cut costs if they can fill the seats. Some students that benefit from the subsidized college loans will take the place of those that are not eligible for them.

Others students that could scrape and save to pay the costs of college will just give up the effort and let the government provide the almost free loan money.

Providing this subsidized tuition money to the colleges is feeding the problem.

These are two interesting articles by a college president and a professor as to why cost are out of control.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/02/opinion/vedder-college-costs/index.html

Richard Vedder, Professor of economics at Ohio University

Whereas private businesses cut prices for consumers and costs to themselves through efficiencies that increase profits and incomes, universities lack those incentives.

Indeed, the typical successful university president views his or her key constituencies not to be the customer (students and their parents who pay tuition charges or the granters of research funds), but rather others -- the faculty, important alumni, key administrators, trustees and occasionally politicians. They please these constituencies by raising, and then spending, lots of money.

They effectively bribe powerful faculty with low teaching loads, high salaries and good parking. They give the alumni successful intercollegiate athletic programs that are expensive and usually financed off the backs of students. They give trustees whatever they want, no matter how costly or eccentric.

Universities do a second thing unheard of in the private sector -- they often deliberately turn customers away.

A fast food chain or discount store succeeds by selling more hamburgers or television sets; no customer was ever kept from spending money at McDonald's by an "admissions office." Yet for American universities, the "bottom line" is measured by college rankings that often reward schools for turning people away, becoming more "selective." Many believe the Ivy League offers the best education in the world, so why do we encourage those elite institutions to deny access to thousands of highly qualified students every year?

The key to getting costs under control is contained in three words that begin with the letter "I"-- information, incentives and innovation.

Customers are ignorant of college outcomes because we do not measure in any coherent and consistent manner what students actually learn, how well they do after graduation or whether they think better in a critical manner as a result of the college experience. Even basic financial information on how colleges spend money is often not fully shared with trustees or key politicians who help fund or oversee college operations.

As mentioned above, incentives to conserve resources are few. Once, as a department chairman, I successfully battled for more faculty members to do the same amount of work, thus lowering productivity. The result? My faculty evaluated me highly so I got a nice raise. Where else do the employees get to decide who their bosses will be or how much they will be paid?

If information and incentives are provided, innovation will come. Already, we know several online and other innovations can work to deliver high-quality education services at potentially lower prices. Duncan highlighted Western Governor's University, a nonprofit online institution, as one such example.

Nondegree forms of education need more emphasis, since the number of college graduates exceeds the number of jobs available in occupations for which degrees historically have been desirable -- jobs in the managerial, technical and professional areas. According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2008 some 29.7% of flight attendants, 24.4% of retail salespersons and 17.4% of baggage porters had a bachelor's degree or higher.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debora-l-spar/why-college-costs-so-much_b_3755845.html

Debora L. Spar, President, Barnard College

Meanwhile, in the 50 years since my parents graduated, colleges like Barnard have vastly expanded the kind of services we provide. In 1955, Barnard offered 28 majors; today we offer 51. In 1955, our health services revolved around social hygiene and TB tests; today we have nutritionists and substance-abuse counselors, learning- disability specialists, and psychiatrists. We have career counselors and college- activity directors; a public-safety staff of 120, and a dining service that is kosher and halal, nut-free, gluten-free, and vegetarian. None of these services relates directly to what our students learn in Russian literature or organic chemistry, but they have been built into the fabric of college life over the past 50 years, enriching the ways in which our students learn and influencing the kind of women they become. And they, too, are extremely costly: In 2011, counseling services alone cost the College nearly one million dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveodland/2012/03/24/college-costs-are-soaring/

Universities, of course, are subject to inflation like all of us: food, water, fuel, electricity, etc. all increase for them as it does for households. And some inflation is due to increased spending on facility construction, especially lab and computer costs. But most of these capital expansions are paid for with donations and debt. The overwhelming cost culprit is labor costs. Between 1993 and 2007, total university expenses rose 35%. But administrationexpenses rose a whopping 61% and instruction expenses rose 39%. In fact, as a 2010 Goldwater Institute study finds, “universities have in recent years vastly expanded their administrative bureaucracies, while in some cases actually shrinking the numbers of professors.” While enrollment rose between 1993 and 2007 by 14.5%, administrators employed per 100 students rose nearly 40% and spending on administration per student rose by 66%.

Part of the issue is due to the tenure policy at universities. Tenure virtually guarantees employment for life at these institutions regardless of productivity of professors. About half of full-time faculty members have tenure. Senior professors at elite universities now get sabbaticals every third year rather than “just” every seventh year. In 2011, 20 of Harvard’s 48 history professors were on leave.

[AUDub 11,424]

Ben......so you think referring to minorities in general is playing the race card? Wow. It never crossed my mind.

It's not really a race issue, but for some odd reason you see fit to see it as one. Not to mention that your post seemed to imply that minorities were all poor.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

cptau......what will be their incentive to cut costs? More students will be able to go on this new loan policy. Your example is a good one. What am I missing?

Colleges have no incentives to cut costs if they can fill the seats. Some students that benefit from the subsidized college loans will take the place of those that are not eligible for them.

Others students that could scrape and save to pay the costs of college will just give up the effort and let the government provide the almost free loan money.

Providing this subsidized tuition money to the colleges is feeding the problem.

These are two interesting articles by a college president and a professor as to why cost are out of control.

http://www.cnn.com/2...osts/index.html

Richard Vedder, Professor of economics at Ohio University

Whereas private businesses cut prices for consumers and costs to themselves through efficiencies that increase profits and incomes, universities lack those incentives.

Indeed, the typical successful university president views his or her key constituencies not to be the customer (students and their parents who pay tuition charges or the granters of research funds), but rather others -- the faculty, important alumni, key administrators, trustees and occasionally politicians. They please these constituencies by raising, and then spending, lots of money.

They effectively bribe powerful faculty with low teaching loads, high salaries and good parking. They give the alumni successful intercollegiate athletic programs that are expensive and usually financed off the backs of students. They give trustees whatever they want, no matter how costly or eccentric.

Universities do a second thing unheard of in the private sector -- they often deliberately turn customers away.

A fast food chain or discount store succeeds by selling more hamburgers or television sets; no customer was ever kept from spending money at McDonald's by an "admissions office." Yet for American universities, the "bottom line" is measured by college rankings that often reward schools for turning people away, becoming more "selective." Many believe the Ivy League offers the best education in the world, so why do we encourage those elite institutions to deny access to thousands of highly qualified students every year?

The key to getting costs under control is contained in three words that begin with the letter "I"-- information, incentives and innovation.

Customers are ignorant of college outcomes because we do not measure in any coherent and consistent manner what students actually learn, how well they do after graduation or whether they think better in a critical manner as a result of the college experience. Even basic financial information on how colleges spend money is often not fully shared with trustees or key politicians who help fund or oversee college operations.

As mentioned above, incentives to conserve resources are few. Once, as a department chairman, I successfully battled for more faculty members to do the same amount of work, thus lowering productivity. The result? My faculty evaluated me highly so I got a nice raise. Where else do the employees get to decide who their bosses will be or how much they will be paid?

If information and incentives are provided, innovation will come. Already, we know several online and other innovations can work to deliver high-quality education services at potentially lower prices. Duncan highlighted Western Governor's University, a nonprofit online institution, as one such example.

Nondegree forms of education need more emphasis, since the number of college graduates exceeds the number of jobs available in occupations for which degrees historically have been desirable -- jobs in the managerial, technical and professional areas. According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2008 some 29.7% of flight attendants, 24.4% of retail salespersons and 17.4% of baggage porters had a bachelor's degree or higher.

http://www.huffingto..._b_3755845.html

Debora L. Spar, President, Barnard College

Meanwhile, in the 50 years since my parents graduated, colleges like Barnard have vastly expanded the kind of services we provide. In 1955, Barnard offered 28 majors; today we offer 51. In 1955, our health services revolved around social hygiene and TB tests; today we have nutritionists and substance-abuse counselors, learning- disability specialists, and psychiatrists. We have career counselors and college- activity directors; a public-safety staff of 120, and a dining service that is kosher and halal, nut-free, gluten-free, and vegetarian. None of these services relates directly to what our students learn in Russian literature or organic chemistry, but they have been built into the fabric of college life over the past 50 years, enriching the ways in which our students learn and influencing the kind of women they become. And they, too, are extremely costly: In 2011, counseling services alone cost the College nearly one million dollars.

http://www.forbes.co...ts-are-soaring/

Universities, of course, are subject to inflation like all of us: food, water, fuel, electricity, etc. all increase for them as it does for households. And some inflation is due to increased spending on facility construction, especially lab and computer costs. But most of these capital expansions are paid for with donations and debt. The overwhelming cost culprit is labor costs. Between 1993 and 2007, total university expenses rose 35%. But administrationexpenses rose a whopping 61% and instruction expenses rose 39%. In fact, as a 2010 Goldwater Institute study finds, “universities have in recent years vastly expanded their administrative bureaucracies, while in some cases actually shrinking the numbers of professors.” While enrollment rose between 1993 and 2007 by 14.5%, administrators employed per 100 students rose nearly 40% and spending on administration per student rose by 66%.

Part of the issue is due to the tenure policy at universities. Tenure virtually guarantees employment for life at these institutions regardless of productivity of professors. About half of full-time faculty members have tenure. Senior professors at elite universities now get sabbaticals every third year rather than “just” every seventh year. In 2011, 20 of Harvard’s 48 history professors were on leave.

Auburn University is throwing a lot of money into its dining facilities at the moment. Especially the new facility that will go in across from Sewell, they are currently building a Starbucks in Lowder, and have plans for other things at different locations. They are using leftover tiger dining money (if you don't know first time undergrads are charged $300 dollars a semester and can use it all over campus for food, on campus I think it is $995), cause they don't let the unused rollover, to aid in funding projects.

Anyway, Tiger Dining Head and his marketing consultant came into my class to survey yesterday and they state these projects are to enhance the campus's marketability for future student recruitment. A couple of years ago they said the mandatory dining requirements were so students would stay on campus, thus increasing the amount of time studied and increasing GPA's and graduation numbers.

I fortunately don't have to pay the fee, cause I already have undergrads from Auburn, and honestly would be mad if I had too. I don't drink coffee (I know crazy), I use my 15$ dollar Camelbak and the WEGL water stations for drinking and I pack granola, protein bars, or a bag of nuts with me that I bought in bulk from Amazon or Sams. If I want a meal I walk to Subway and get one for under 5 dollars versus the 8 plus dollars you pay at a on campus facility or the 7-9 dollars you pay for a pre-made sandwich, wrap, or salad.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Texan4Auburn...... I share your agony and being a retired fed employee, I appreciate most of the kind guys here paying some of my pension and subsidizing my health insurance away from the evils of Obamacare.

Actually I hate that the conservative guys are having to do it but I am most gleeful some of the Dems here are chipping in

Truthfully, I hate that I had to take loans out to do this. Mine is small though and will be less than $15k, and as far as post graduate I hope to find a employer with tuition reimbursement or one that will pay for it with a time commitment in return. Auburn, Troy, Alabama, UAB all have online degrees that would benefit my field so I can work and do one from a quality/accredited institute at the same time.

Course I kid with the screwing people over part. While I haven't been around much the last two, you probably remember I earned and paid for two undergrads at Auburn, but I had the period of severe depression and the first guy I saw just threw a cocktail of drugs at me to solve the issue. Which those killed drive, motivation, and GPA. To quote Stevie Nicks" Klonopin is more deadly than cocaine". Second guy had a different approach and it was great and most likely saved my life. Course with the low GPA I couldn't do what I wanted and Psychology and Exercise Science degrees don't do much these days without post-grad work. I couldn't get a doctoral/masters program in psychology to take a risk on me. I will go to my grave though stating I'm positive I would have been as good, if not better, than a majority of those 4.0 students in the field as I went places they only read about in textbooks or saw on film.

I share that for a couple reasons:

One of course is as you can see being in a position to make a difference in health care is personal too me, its not just a paycheck like I was kidding about. A perfect example is the VA situation. Growing up I also lived in a military town. So my neighbors were vets and a lot of my friends dads were active duty and vets themselves. So that stuff pisses me off. That's the kinda stuff with this degree I can directly impact and make a difference in.

The second, and the one that pertains to this thread, is that when people get mad about people getting loans through the government and how they are low life's and won't do anything with them and are a waste.... well I'm that guy. You look at my above history and I bet some in this very thread would have been (no, I know would have been), and might still be, that I ran up a 13k tab with taxpayer money to earn another degree. I would of been labeled a waste. Course the beauty of graduating and going back... your GPA resets...so I have a 3.6 and graduate programs have now told me they will just look at the GPA for the hours I did in this degree. Course I did pick a degree that will pay though.

Far as the minorities. Being 100% truthful, outside of the athletes, the minorities I see at Auburn atm are usually in money/job potential fields like health services admin, accounting, finance, engineering, mathematics etc. This is excluding the foreign students also.

So for those of you that are like hey glad we could help and go get them kid. I thank you and hope to justify your investment by repaying it in full with interest and making a difference that improves the quality, services, and cost of your health care needs whenever and wherever you might need them.

To those that are like you sum of a bitch liberal loser. I still thank you for your contribution and hope that I run into you in a private practice, preferably a cardiovascular one. Then that you are there because you had poor nutrition and didn't exercise that could have prevented the medical issue; the exercise physiologist in me . I then look forward to providing you with high quality, and as expensive as hell services and billing you and your insurance company for every penny I can get for the practice.. ethically of course. Then using that money to pay my high salary, which in turn I will use to repay the loan that you hated that I got in the first place through your tax dollars. Trifecta.

Though honestly, I'm a middle of the road guy these days.. neither conservative or liberal.